2.
The Discourse to Vaccha on Fire
187. Thus have I heard - On one occasion the Blessed One was dwelling at Sāvatthī in Jeta's Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika's park. Then the wandering ascetic Vacchagotta approached the Blessed One; having approached, he exchanged friendly greetings with the Blessed One. Having concluded the pleasant and memorable talk, he sat down to one side. Seated to one side, the wandering ascetic Vacchagotta said this to the Blessed One -
"What now, Master Gotama, 'the world is eternal, only this is the truth, anything else is vain' - does Master Gotama hold such a view?" "I do not, Vaccha, hold such a view - 'the world is eternal, only this is the truth, anything else is vain.'"
"What then, Master Gotama, 'the world is non-eternal, only this is the truth, anything else is vain' - does Master Gotama hold such a view?" "I do not, Vaccha, hold such a view - 'the world is non-eternal, only this is the truth, anything else is vain.'"
"What now, Master Gotama, 'the world is finite, only this is the truth, anything else is vain' - does Master Gotama hold such a view?" "I do not, Vaccha, hold such a view - 'the world is finite, only this is the truth, anything else is vain.'"
"What then, Master Gotama, 'the world is infinite, only this is the truth, anything else is vain' - does Master Gotama hold such a view?" "I do not, Vaccha, hold such a view - 'the world is infinite, only this is the truth, anything else is vain.'"
"What now, Master Gotama, 'the soul is the same as the body, only this is the truth, anything else is vain' - does Master Gotama hold such a view?" "I do not, Vaccha, hold such a view - 'the soul is the same as the body, only this is the truth, anything else is vain.'"
"What then, Master Gotama, 'the soul is one thing and the body another, only this is the truth, anything else is vain' - does Master Gotama hold such a view?" "I do not, Vaccha, hold such a view - 'the soul is one thing and the body another, only this is the truth, anything else is vain.'"
"What then, Master Gotama, 'the Truth-finder exists after death, only this is the truth, anything else is vain' - does Master Gotama hold such a view?" "I do not, Vaccha, hold such a view - 'the Truth-finder exists after death, only this is the truth, anything else is vain.'"
"But what, Master Gotama, 'the Truth-finder does not exist after death, only this is the truth, anything else is vain' - does Master Gotama hold such a view?" "I do not, Vaccha, hold such a view - 'the Truth-finder does not exist after death, only this is the truth, anything else is vain.'"
"What then, Master Gotama, 'the Truth-finder both exists and does not exist after death, only this is the truth, anything else is vain' - does Master Gotama hold such a view?" "I do not, Vaccha, hold such a view - 'the Truth-finder both exists and does not exist after death, only this is the truth, anything else is vain.'"
"But what, Master Gotama, 'the Truth-finder neither exists nor does not exist after death, only this is the truth, anything else is vain' - does Master Gotama hold such a view?" "I do not, Vaccha, hold such a view - 'the Truth-finder neither exists nor does not exist after death, only this is the truth, anything else is vain.'"
188. "What now, Master Gotama, 'the world is eternal, only this is the truth, anything else is vain' - does Master Gotama hold such a view?" - thus asked, "I do not, Vaccha, hold such a view - the world is eternal, only this is the truth, anything else is vain.' "What then, Master Gotama, 'the world is non-eternal, only this is the truth, anything else is vain' - does Master Gotama hold such a view?" - thus asked, "I do not, Vaccha, hold such a view - 'the world is non-eternal, only this is the truth, anything else is vain,'" you say. "What now, Master Gotama, 'the world is finite, only this is the truth, anything else is vain' - does Master Gotama hold such a view?" - thus asked, "I do not, Vaccha, hold such a view - 'the world is finite, only this is the truth, anything else is vain,'" you say. "What then, Master Gotama, 'the world is infinite, only this is the truth, anything else is vain' - does Master Gotama hold such a view?" - thus asked, "I do not, Vaccha, hold such a view - 'the world is infinite, only this is the truth, anything else is vain,'" you say. "What now, Master Gotama, 'the soul is the same as the body, only this is the truth, anything else is vain' - does Master Gotama hold such a view?" - thus asked, "I do not, Vaccha, hold such a view - 'the soul is the same as the body, only this is the truth, anything else is vain,'" you say. "What then, Master Gotama, 'the soul is one thing and the body another, only this is the truth, anything else is vain' - does Master Gotama hold such a view?" - thus asked, "I do not, Vaccha, hold such a view - 'the soul is one thing and the body another, only this is the truth, anything else is vain,'" you say. "What now, Master Gotama, 'the Truth-finder exists after death, only this is the truth, anything else is vain' - does Master Gotama hold such a view?" - thus asked, "I do not, Vaccha, hold such a view - 'the Truth-finder exists after death, only this is the truth, anything else is vain,'" you say.
"What then, Master Gotama, 'the Truth-finder does not exist after death, only this is the truth, anything else is vain' - does Master Gotama hold such a view?" - thus asked, "I do not, Vaccha, hold such a view - 'the Truth-finder does not exist after death, only this is the truth, anything else is vain,'" you say. "What now, Master Gotama, 'the Truth-finder both exists and does not exist after death, only this is the truth, anything else is vain' - does Master Gotama hold such a view?" - thus asked, "I do not, Vaccha, hold such a view - 'the Truth-finder both exists and does not exist after death, only this is the truth, anything else is vain,'" you say. "What then, Master Gotama, 'the Truth-finder neither exists nor does not exist after death, only this is the truth, anything else is vain' - does Master Gotama hold such a view?" - thus asked, "I do not, Vaccha, hold such a view - 'the Truth-finder neither exists nor does not exist after death, only this is the truth, anything else is vain,'" you say.
"But what danger does Master Gotama see that he has thus not adopted any of these wrong views at all?"
189. "'The world is eternal,' Vaccha, this is a wrong view, a thicket of views, a wilderness of views, a wriggling of views, a writhing of views, a mental fetter of wrong view, bringing suffering, bringing vexation, bringing anguish, bringing fever; it does not lead to disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to peace, to direct knowledge, to highest enlightenment, to Nibbāna. 'The world is non-eternal,' Vaccha, etc. 'The world is finite,' Vaccha, etc. 'The world is infinite,' Vaccha, etc. 'The soul is the same as the body,' Vaccha, etc. 'The soul is one thing and the body another,' Vaccha, etc. 'The Truth-finder exists after death,' Vaccha, etc. 'The Truth-finder does not exist after death,' Vaccha, etc. 'The Truth-finder both exists and does not exist after death,' Vaccha, etc. 'The Truth-finder neither exists nor does not exist after death,' Vaccha, this is a wrong view, a thicket of views, a wilderness of views, a wriggling of views, a writhing of views, a mental fetter of wrong view, bringing suffering, bringing vexation, bringing anguish, bringing fever; it does not lead to disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to peace, to direct knowledge, to highest enlightenment, to Nibbāna. Seeing this danger, Vaccha, I have thus not adopted any of these wrong views at all."
"But does Master Gotama have any wrong view?" "'Wrong view,' Vaccha, this has been removed by the Truth-finder. For this has been seen by the Truth-finder, Vaccha - 'Such is matter, such is the origin of matter, such is the passing away of matter; such is feeling, such is the origin of feeling, such is the passing away of feeling; such is perception, such is the origin of perception, such is the passing away of perception; such are activities, such is the origin of activities, such is the passing away of activities; such is consciousness, such is the origin of consciousness, such is the passing away of consciousness.' Therefore I say the Truth-finder, through the elimination of all imaginings, through the elimination of all agitations, through the elimination of all I-making, mine-making, and the underlying tendency to conceit, through dispassion, through cessation, through giving up, through relinquishment, is liberated by non-clinging."
190. "But, Master Gotama, where is a monk with mind thus liberated reborn?" "'Is reborn,' Vaccha, is not befitting." "If so, Master Gotama, is he not reborn?" "'Is not reborn,' Vaccha, is not befitting." "If so, Master Gotama, is he both reborn and not reborn?" "'Is both reborn and not reborn,' Vaccha, is not befitting." "If so, Master Gotama, is he neither reborn nor not reborn?" "'Is neither reborn nor not reborn,' Vaccha, is not befitting."
"'But, Master Gotama, where is a monk with mind thus liberated reborn?' - thus asked, you say 'Is reborn, Vaccha, is not befitting.' 'If so, Master Gotama, is he not reborn?' - thus asked, you say 'Is not reborn, Vaccha, is not befitting.' 'If so, Master Gotama, is he both reborn and not reborn?' - thus asked, you say 'Is both reborn and not reborn, Vaccha, is not befitting.' 'If so, Master Gotama, is he neither reborn nor not reborn?' - thus asked, you say 'Is neither reborn nor not reborn, Vaccha, is not befitting.' Here, Master Gotama, I have fallen into not knowing, here I have fallen into confusion. Even that measure of confidence which I had in Master Gotama through the earlier friendly conversation has now vanished." "Indeed it is enough for your not knowing, enough for your confusion. For this Teaching, Vaccha, is deep, difficult to see, difficult to understand, peaceful, sublime, unattainable by mere reasoning, subtle, to be experienced by the wise. It is difficult to know by you who hold a different view, a different acceptance, a different preference, a different practice, a different teacher's doctrine."
191. "If so, Vaccha, I will ask you a question about this very matter; as it pleases you, so you should answer it. What do you think, Vaccha, if a fire were burning before you, would you know - 'This fire is burning before me'?" "If, Master Gotama, a fire were burning before me, I would know - 'This fire is burning before me.'"
"But if, Vaccha, someone were to ask you thus - 'This fire that is burning before you, dependent on what does this fire burn?' - thus asked, Vaccha, how would you answer?" "If, Master Gotama, someone were to ask me thus - 'This fire that is burning before you, dependent on what does this fire burn?' - thus asked, I, Master Gotama, would answer thus - 'This fire that is burning before me, this fire burns dependent on grass and wood as fuel.'"
"If, Vaccha, that fire before you were to be quenched, would you know - 'This fire before me has been quenched'?" "If, Master Gotama, that fire before me were to be quenched, I would know - 'This fire before me has been quenched.'"
"But if, Vaccha, someone were to ask you thus - 'This fire before you that has been quenched, to which direction has that fire gone from here - to the east, or to the south, or to the west, or to the north?' - thus asked, Vaccha, how would you answer?" "It is not befitting, Master Gotama, for that fire, Master Gotama, burnt dependent on grass and wood as fuel, through the exhaustion of that and through the non-supply of other fuel, being without nutriment, is reckoned simply as quenched."
192. "Even so, Vaccha, that matter by which one describing the Truth-finder might describe him - that matter has been abandoned by the Truth-finder, its root cut off, made like a palm stump, brought to obliteration, subject to non-arising in the future. Liberated through the extinction of matter, Vaccha, the Truth-finder is deep, immeasurable, hard to fathom - just as the ocean. 'Is reborn' is not befitting, 'is not reborn' is not befitting, 'is both reborn and not reborn' is not befitting, 'is neither reborn nor not reborn' is not befitting.
"That feeling by which one describing the Truth-finder might describe him - that feeling has been abandoned by the Truth-finder, its root cut off, made like a palm stump, brought to obliteration, subject to non-arising in the future. Liberated through the extinction of feeling, Vaccha, the Truth-finder is deep, immeasurable, hard to fathom - just as the ocean. 'Is reborn' is not befitting, 'is not reborn' is not befitting, 'is both reborn and not reborn' is not befitting, 'is neither reborn nor not reborn' is not befitting.
"That perception by which one describing the Truth-finder might describe him - that perception has been abandoned by the Truth-finder, its root cut off, made like a palm stump, brought to obliteration, subject to non-arising in the future. Liberated through the extinction of perception, Vaccha, the Truth-finder is deep, immeasurable, hard to fathom - just as the ocean. 'Is reborn' is not befitting, 'is not reborn' is not befitting, 'is both reborn and not reborn' is not befitting, 'is neither reborn nor not reborn' is not befitting.
"Those activities by which one describing the Truth-finder might describe him - those activities have been abandoned by the Truth-finder, their root cut off, made like a palm stump, brought to obliteration, subject to non-arising in the future. Liberated through the extinction of activities, Vaccha, the Truth-finder is deep, immeasurable, hard to fathom - just as the ocean. 'Is reborn' is not befitting, 'is not reborn' is not befitting, 'is both reborn and not reborn' is not befitting, 'is neither reborn nor not reborn' is not befitting.
"That consciousness by which one describing the Truth-finder might describe him - that consciousness has been abandoned by the Truth-finder, its root cut off, made like a palm stump, brought to obliteration, subject to non-arising in the future. Liberated through the extinction of consciousness, Vaccha, the Truth-finder is deep, immeasurable, hard to fathom - just as the ocean. 'Is reborn' is not befitting, 'is not reborn' is not befitting, 'is both reborn and not reborn' is not befitting, 'is neither reborn nor not reborn' is not befitting."
When this was said, the wandering ascetic Vacchagotta said this to the Blessed One - "Just as, Master Gotama, not far from a village or a town there might be a great sāla tree. Through impermanence its branches and leaves would fall away, its bark and outer layer would fall away, its sapwood would fall away; and at a later time, free from branches and leaves, free from bark and outer layer, free from sapwood, it would be pure, established in its core; even so, Master Gotama's Scriptures are free from branches and leaves, free from bark and outer layer, free from sapwood, pure, established in the core. Excellent, Master Gotama! Etc. May Master Gotama remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge from this day forth for life."
The Discourse to Vacchagotta on Fire is concluded as second.