4.
The Discourse at Madhurā
317. Thus have I heard - On one occasion the Venerable Mahākaccāna was dwelling at Madhurā in the Gundā Grove. King Mādhura Avantiputta heard - "Indeed, my dear, the ascetic Kaccāna is dwelling at Madhurā in the Gundā Grove. And concerning that Venerable Kaccāna, such a good reputation has arisen - 'He is wise, accomplished, intelligent, very learned, a brilliant speaker, of good discernment, and both senior and a Worthy One.' Good indeed is the seeing of such Worthy Ones." Then King Mādhura Avantiputta, having had the finest vehicles harnessed, having ascended the finest vehicle, departed from Madhurā with the finest vehicles with great royal pomp to see the Venerable Mahākaccāna. Having gone by vehicle as far as the ground was passable for vehicles, he descended from the vehicle and approached the Venerable Mahākaccāna on foot; having approached, he exchanged friendly greetings with the Venerable Mahākaccāna. Having concluded the pleasant and memorable talk, he sat down to one side. Seated to one side, King Mādhura Avantiputta said this to the Venerable Mahākaccāna - "Brahmins, dear Kaccāna, say thus - 'The brahmin alone is the superior class, other classes are inferior; the brahmin alone is the fair class, other classes are dark; only brahmins are purified, not non-brahmins; only brahmins are the sons of Brahmā, legitimate sons, born of his breast, born from his mouth, born of Brahmā, created by Brahmā, heirs of Brahmā.' What does the Venerable Kaccāna proclaim here?" "This is merely a saying in the world, great king - 'The brahmin alone is the superior class, other classes are inferior; the brahmin alone is the fair class, other classes are dark; only brahmins are purified, not non-brahmins; only brahmins are the sons of Brahmā, legitimate sons, born of his breast, born from his mouth, born of Brahmā, created by Brahmā, heirs of Brahmā.' By this method too, great king, it should be known how this is merely a saying in the world - 'The brahmin alone is the superior class, other classes are inferior, etc. heirs of Brahmā.'"
318. "What do you think, great king, if a warrior were to prosper with wealth or grain or silver or gold, would a warrior be for him one who rises before him and retires after him, doing whatever he commands, acting agreeably, speaking pleasantly... would a brahmin be for him... would a merchant be for him... would a worker be for him one who rises before him and retires after him, doing whatever he commands, acting agreeably, speaking pleasantly?" "If a warrior, dear Kaccāna, were to prosper with wealth or grain or silver or gold, a warrior would be for him one who rises before him and retires after him, doing whatever he commands, acting agreeably, speaking pleasantly... would a brahmin be for him... would a merchant be for him... a worker would be for him one who rises before him and retires after him, doing whatever he commands, acting agreeably, speaking pleasantly."
"What do you think, great king, if a brahmin were to prosper with wealth or grain or silver or gold, would a brahmin be for him one who rises before him and retires after him, doing whatever he commands, acting agreeably, speaking pleasantly... would a merchant be for him... would a worker be for him... would a warrior be for him one who rises before him and retires after him, doing whatever he commands, acting agreeably, speaking pleasantly?" "If a brahmin, dear Kaccāna, were to prosper with wealth or grain or silver or gold, a brahmin would be for him one who rises before him and retires after him, doing whatever he commands, acting agreeably, speaking pleasantly... would a merchant be for him... would a worker be for him... a warrior would be for him one who rises before him and retires after him, doing whatever he commands, acting agreeably, speaking pleasantly."
"What do you think, great king, if a merchant were to prosper with wealth or grain or silver or gold, would a merchant be for him one who rises before him and retires after him, doing whatever he commands, acting agreeably, speaking pleasantly... would a worker be for him... would a warrior be for him... would a brahmin be for him one who rises before him and retires after him, doing whatever he commands, acting agreeably, speaking pleasantly?" "If a merchant, dear Kaccāna, were to prosper with wealth or grain or silver or gold, a merchant would be for him one who rises before him and retires after him, doing whatever he commands, acting agreeably, speaking pleasantly... would a worker be for him... would a warrior be for him... a brahmin would be for him one who rises before him and retires after him, doing whatever he commands, acting agreeably, speaking pleasantly."
"What do you think, great king, if a worker were to prosper with wealth or grain or silver or gold, would a worker be for him one who rises before him and retires after him, doing whatever he commands, acting agreeably, speaking pleasantly... would a warrior be for him... would a brahmin be for him... would a merchant be for him one who rises before him and retires after him, doing whatever he commands, acting agreeably, speaking pleasantly?" "If a worker, dear Kaccāna, were to prosper with wealth or grain or silver or gold, a worker would be for him one who rises before him and retires after him, doing whatever he commands, acting agreeably, speaking pleasantly... would a warrior be for him... would a brahmin be for him... a merchant would be for him one who rises before him and retires after him, doing whatever he commands, acting agreeably, speaking pleasantly."
"What do you think, great king, this being so, are these four castes equal or not? Or how is it here?" "Certainly, friend Kaccāna, this being so, these four castes are equal. I do not perceive any difference among them here." "By this method too, great king, it should be known how this is merely a saying in the world - 'The brahmin alone is the superior class, other classes are inferior, etc. heirs of Brahmā.'"
319. "What do you think, great king, suppose here a noble were one who kills living beings, takes what is not given, engages in sexual misconduct, speaks falsehood, speaks divisive speech, speaks harsh speech, engages in idle chatter, is covetous, has a mind of ill-will, and holds wrong view - upon the body's collapse at death, would he be reborn in a realm of misery, an unfortunate realm, a nether world, in hell, or not? Or how is it here?" "A noble too indeed, friend Kaccāna, who kills living beings, takes what is not given, engages in sexual misconduct, speaks falsehood, speaks divisive speech, speaks harsh speech, engages in idle chatter, is covetous, has a mind of ill-will, and holds wrong view - upon the body's collapse at death, would be reborn in a realm of misery, an unfortunate realm, a nether world, in hell. Thus it is for me here, and thus have I heard this from the Worthy Ones."
"Good, good, great king! Good indeed is this for you, great king, that you think thus, and good indeed is this that you have heard from the Worthy Ones. What do you think, great king, suppose here a brahmin, etc. suppose here a merchant, etc. suppose here a worker were one who kills living beings, takes what is not given, etc. holds wrong view - upon the body's collapse at death, would he be reborn in a realm of misery, an unfortunate realm, a nether world, in hell, or not? Or how is it here?" "A worker too indeed, friend Kaccāna, who kills living beings, takes what is not given, etc. holds wrong view - upon the body's collapse at death, would be reborn in a realm of misery, an unfortunate realm, a nether world, in hell. Thus it is for me here, and thus have I heard this from the Worthy Ones."
"Good, good, great king! Good indeed is this for you, great king, that you think thus, and good indeed is this that you have heard from the Worthy Ones. What do you think, great king, this being so, are these four castes equal or not? Or how is it here?" "Certainly, friend Kaccāna, this being so, these four castes are equal. I do not perceive any difference among them here." "By this method too, great king, it should be known how this is merely a saying in the world - 'The brahmin alone is the superior class, other classes are inferior, etc. heirs of Brahmā.'"
320. "What do you think, great king, suppose here a noble were one who abstains from killing living beings, abstains from taking what is not given, abstains from sexual misconduct, abstains from lying, abstains from divisive speech, abstains from harsh speech, abstains from idle chatter, is non-covetous, has a mind without ill-will, and holds right view - upon the body's collapse at death, would he be reborn in a fortunate realm, in a heavenly world, or not? Or how is it here?" "A noble too indeed, friend Kaccāna, who abstains from killing living beings, abstains from taking what is not given, abstains from sexual misconduct, abstains from lying, abstains from divisive speech, abstains from harsh speech, abstains from idle chatter, is non-covetous, has a mind without ill-will, and holds right view - upon the body's collapse at death, would be reborn in a fortunate realm, in a heavenly world. Thus it is for me here, and thus have I heard this from the Worthy Ones."
"Good, good, great king! Good indeed is this for you, great king, that you think thus, and good indeed is this that you have heard from the Worthy Ones. What do you think, great king, suppose here a brahmin, suppose here a merchant, suppose here a worker were one who abstains from killing living beings, abstains from taking what is not given, etc. holds right view - upon the body's collapse at death, would he be reborn in a fortunate realm, in a heavenly world, or not? Or how is it here?" "A worker too indeed, friend Kaccāna, who abstains from killing living beings, abstains from taking what is not given, etc. holds right view - upon the body's collapse at death, would be reborn in a fortunate realm, in a heavenly world. Thus it is for me here, and thus have I heard this from the Worthy Ones."
"Good, good, great king! Good indeed is this for you, great king, that you think thus, and good indeed is this that you have heard from the Worthy Ones. What do you think, great king, this being so, are these four castes equal or not? Or how is it here?" "Certainly, friend Kaccāna, this being so, these four castes are equal. I do not perceive any difference among them here." "By this method too, great king, it should be known how this is merely a saying in the world - 'The brahmin alone is the superior class, other classes are inferior, etc. heirs of Brahmā.'"
321. "What do you think, great king, suppose here a noble were to break into houses, or plunder, or commit burglary, or wait in ambush, or go to another's wife, and if your men were to seize him and show him to you - 'This, Sire, is a thief, a criminal. Impose on him whatever punishment you wish.' What would you do to him?" "We would have him killed, dear Kaccāna, or we would fine him, or we would banish him, or we would do with him as we wish. What is the reason for this? Because, dear Kaccāna, his former designation 'noble' has disappeared for him; he is reckoned simply as a thief."
"What do you think, great king, suppose here a brahmin, here a merchant, here a worker were to break into houses, or plunder, or commit burglary, or wait in ambush, or go to another's wife, and if your men were to seize him and show him to you - 'This, Sire, is a thief, a criminal. Impose on him whatever punishment you wish.' What would you do to him?" "We would have him killed, dear Kaccāna, or we would fine him, or we would banish him, or we would do with him as we wish. What is the reason for this? Because, dear Kaccāna, his former designation 'worker' has disappeared for him; he is reckoned simply as a thief."
"What do you think, great king, this being so, are these four castes equal or not? Or how is it here?" "Certainly, friend Kaccāna, this being so, these four castes are equal. I do not perceive any difference among them here." "By this method too, great king, it should be known how this is merely a saying in the world - 'The brahmin alone is the superior class, other classes are inferior, etc. heirs of Brahmā.'"
322. "What do you think, great king, suppose here a noble, having shaved off his hair and beard, having put on ochre robes, were to go forth from home into homelessness, abstaining from killing living beings, abstaining from taking what is not given, abstaining from lying, abstaining from eating at night, eating only one meal a day, leading the holy life, moral, of good character? What would you do to him?" "We would pay respect to him, dear Kaccāna, or we would rise up for him, or we would invite him with a seat, or we would invite him with the requisites of robes, almsfood, lodging and medicine for the sick, or we would arrange righteous protection and safeguarding for him. What is the reason for this? Because, dear Kaccāna, his former designation 'noble' has disappeared for him; he is reckoned simply as an ascetic."
"What do you think, great king, suppose here a brahmin, here a merchant, here a worker, having shaved off his hair and beard, having put on ochre robes, were to go forth from home into homelessness, abstaining from killing living beings, abstaining from taking what is not given, abstaining from lying, abstaining from eating at night, eating only one meal a day, leading the holy life, moral, of good character? What would you do to him?" "We would pay respect to him, dear Kaccāna, or we would rise up for him, or we would invite him with a seat, or we would invite him with the requisites of robes, almsfood, lodging and medicine for the sick, or we would arrange righteous protection and safeguarding for him. What is the reason for this? Because, dear Kaccāna, his former designation 'worker' has disappeared for him; he is reckoned simply as an ascetic."
"What do you think, great king, this being so, are these four castes equal or not? Or how is it here?" "Certainly, friend Kaccāna, this being so, these four castes are equal. I do not perceive any difference among them here." "By this method too, great king, it should be known how this is merely a saying in the world - 'The brahmin alone is the superior class, other classes are inferior; the brahmin alone is the fair class, other classes are dark; only brahmins are purified, not non-brahmins; only brahmins are the sons of Brahmā, legitimate sons, born from his mouth, born of Brahmā, created by Brahmā, heirs of Brahmā.'"
323. When this was said, King Mādhura Avantiputta said this to the Venerable Mahākaccāna - "Excellent, dear Kaccāna, excellent, dear Kaccāna! Just as, dear Kaccāna, one might set upright what had been overturned, or reveal what had been concealed, or point out the path to one who was lost, or hold up an oil lamp in the darkness - 'so that those with eyes might see forms'; just so, the Teaching has been made clear by the Venerable Kaccāna in many ways. I go for refuge to the Venerable Kaccāna, to the Teaching, and to the Community of monks. May the Venerable Kaccāna remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge from this day forth for life." "Do not go for refuge to me, great king. Go for refuge to that very Blessed One to whom I have gone for refuge." "But where, dear Kaccāna, is that Blessed One dwelling now, the Worthy One, the One Enlightened by himself?" "That Blessed One, the Worthy One, the One Enlightened by himself, has now attained final Nibbāna, great king." "If we, dear Kaccāna, were to hear that the Blessed One was within ten yojanas, we would go ten yojanas to see that Blessed One, the Worthy One, the One Enlightened by himself. If we, dear Kaccāna, were to hear that the Blessed One was within twenty yojanas, within thirty yojanas, within forty yojanas, within fifty yojanas, we would go fifty yojanas to see that Blessed One, the Worthy One, the One Enlightened by himself. If we, dear Kaccāna, were to hear that the Blessed One was within a hundred yojanas, we would go a hundred yojanas to see that Blessed One, the Worthy One, the One Enlightened by himself. But since, dear Kaccāna, that Blessed One has attained final Nibbāna, we go for refuge to the Blessed One who has attained final Nibbāna, to the Teaching, and to the Community of monks. May the Venerable Kaccāna remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge from this day forth for life."
The Discourse on Madhura is concluded as fourth.