Homage to the Blessed One, the Worthy One, the Perfectly Enlightened One

The Collection of Minor Texts

The Text of the Questions of Milinda

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2. This is what has been heard - There is a city of the Greeks named Sāgala with various districts, adorned with rivers and mountains, with delightful regions of land, endowed with parks, gardens, groves, lakes and lotus ponds, charming with rivers, mountains and forests, created by the learned, faultless regarding enemies, untroubled by adversaries, with various and diverse strong watchtowers and strongholds, with excellent and superior gateways and arches, with the inner city encircled by deep moats and white walls. With well-laid out streets, squares, crossroads and intersections, with well-arranged shops filled with various excellent goods, adorned with hundreds of various alms halls, decorated with hundreds of thousands of excellent buildings like Himalayan peaks, crowded with elephants, horses, chariots and infantry, frequented by groups of beautiful men and women, thronging with people, with many nobles, brahmins, merchants and workers, filled with various ascetics and brahmins worthy of honour, frequented by many learned and distinguished men, furnished with shops of various clothes such as Kāsi and Koṭumbara cloth, with well-arranged attractive shops of various flowers and scents, fragrant with odours, filled with many desirable precious things, with shops well-arranged facing all directions, frequented by groups of elegant merchants, full of coins, silver, gold, bronze and stones, with glowing treasure stores, abundant in wealth, grain and resources, with full treasuries and storehouses, with much food and drink, with various things to be chewed, eaten, licked, drunk and tasted, like Uttarakuru, with abundant crops, like Āḷakamandā the city of deities.

Standing here, their past action should be told, and in telling it should be divided sixfold. That is: The Previous Life Story, Questions of Milinda, Questions on Characteristics, Questions of Meṇḍaka, Questions of Inference, and Questions of Similes.

Therein the Questions of Milinda and Questions on Characteristics are twofold: questions that cut off uncertainty. The Questions of Meṇḍaka too is twofold: the Great Chapter and Questions on Practice.

Previous Life Story means their past actions.

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External Talk

Previous Life Story and so Forth

3. In the past, it is said, during the Dispensation of the Blessed One Kassapa, a large Community of monks lived in a monastery near the Ganges. There, monks accomplished in duties and virtue, rising early in the morning and taking their brooms, while reflecting on the qualities of the Buddha, swept the courtyard and made a pile of rubbish. Then one monk said to a novice: "Come, novice, throw away this rubbish," but he went as if not hearing, and for the second time... etc... even when called a third time he went as if not hearing. Then that monk, thinking "This novice is difficult to admonish," became angry and struck him with the broomstick. Then crying out of fear while throwing away the rubbish, he made his first wish: "By this meritorious action of throwing away rubbish, until I attain Nibbāna, in whatever place I am reborn during that interval, may I be influential and of great power like the midday sun." Having thrown away the rubbish, he went to the river bank of the Ganges to bathe. Seeing the force of the waves roaring in the Ganges, he made his second wish: "Until I attain Nibbāna, in whatever place I am reborn during that interval, may I have ingenuity arising according to the occasion like this wave force, inexhaustible ingenuity."

That monk too, having put the broom in the sweeping hall and going to the river bank of the Ganges to bathe, hearing the novice's wish, thought: "If he makes such a wish even when employed by me, why should I not succeed?" and made the wish: "Until I attain Nibbāna, in whatever place I am reborn during that interval, may I have inexhaustible ingenuity like this force of the Ganges waves, may I be able to unravel and explain all questions that are asked of me."

Both of them, transmigrating among deities and human beings, spent one interval between Buddhas. Then, just as Moggaliputta Thera is seen by our Blessed One, so too they are seen: "Five hundred years after my final Nibbāna these will arise, and what I have taught as the Teaching and Discipline in subtle form, they will analyse, making it clear and unentangled through questions, examples, and reasoned application."

4. Among them, the novice became King Milinda in the city of Sāgala in Rose-Apple Land. He was wise, intelligent, sagacious, capable in matters of past, future and present concerning the application of counsel, ritual and procedures, acting with deliberation at the time of action, and he had mastered many branches of learning. That is: tradition, convention, calculation, logical methods, ethics, discrimination, mathematics, music, medicine, archery, ancient lore, history, astrology, magic, omens, incantations, warfare, prosody, and the Buddha's word - nineteen in all. He was known as foremost among the many sectarian teachers as a debater, difficult to approach, difficult to overcome. In all of Rose-Apple Land there was no one equal to King Milinda in terms of strength, speed, courage and wisdom. He was wealthy, of great wealth, of great riches, with endless forces and vehicles.

5. One day King Milinda, wishing to see his fourfold army with its countless forces and battle formations, left the city and after reviewing the army divisions outside the city, this king, skilled in debate, versed in worldly arguments and disputation, delighting in popular discourse, confident and bold, looked at the sun and addressed his ministers: "Look here, much of the day remains. What shall we do? Having entered the city just now, is there any wise person, ascetic or brahmin, leader of a community or group, a teacher of a group, even one claiming to be an Arahant, a Fully Enlightened One, who is able to converse with me and remove my perplexity? Let us approach such a one and ask questions, let us have our perplexity removed."

When this was said, five hundred Greeks said to King Milinda: "There are, great king, six teachers - Pūraṇa Kassapa, Makkhali Gosāla, Nigaṇṭha Nāṭaputta, Sañjaya Belaṭṭhaputta, Ajita Kesakambala, Pakudha Kaccāyana. They are leaders of communities and groups, teachers of groups, well-known and famous, founders of schools, highly regarded by many people. Go, great king, ask them questions, have your perplexity removed."

6. Then King Milinda, surrounded by five hundred Greeks, mounted the excellent chariot Bhadravāhana and approached Pūraṇa Kassapa, and having approached, exchanged greetings with Pūraṇa Kassapa and, after exchanging courteous and cordial greetings, sat down to one side. Seated to one side, King Milinda said this to Pūraṇa Kassapa: "Venerable Kassapa, who protects the world?" "The earth, great king, protects the world." "If, Venerable Kassapa, the earth protects the world, then why do beings going to the Avīci hell go beyond the earth?" When this was said, Pūraṇa Kassapa could neither swallow nor spit it out, and sat silent, dismayed, with shoulders drooping, face down, brooding.

7. Then King Milinda said this to Makkhali Gosāla: "Venerable Gosāla, are there wholesome and unwholesome actions, is there result and consequence of good and bad actions?" "There are not, great king, wholesome and unwholesome actions, there is no result and consequence of good and bad actions. Those in this world who are nobles, great king, even after going to the other world will again be just nobles, those who are brahmins, merchants, workers, outcasts, and scavengers, even after going to the other world will again be just brahmins, merchants, workers, outcasts, and scavengers. What is the use of wholesome and unwholesome actions?" "If, Venerable Gosāla, those who in this world are nobles, brahmins, merchants, workers, outcasts, and scavengers, even after going to the other world will again be just nobles, brahmins, merchants, workers, outcasts, and scavengers, there is nothing to be done with wholesome and unwholesome actions. Then, Venerable Gosāla, those in this world who have had their hands cut off, even after going to the other world will again just have their hands cut off. Those who have had their feet cut off will just have their feet cut off. Those who have had their hands and feet cut off will just have their hands and feet cut off. Those who have had their ears cut off will just have their ears cut off. Those who have had their nose cut off will just have their nose cut off. Those who have had their ears and nose cut off will just have their ears and nose cut off." When this was said, Gosāla remained silent.

Then this occurred to King Milinda: "Empty indeed is Rose-Apple Land, hollow indeed is Rose-Apple Land, there is no ascetic or brahmin who is able to converse with me and remove my perplexity."

Then King Milinda addressed his ministers: "How delightful indeed is this moonlit night. Which ascetic or brahmin might we approach today to ask questions? Who is able to converse with me and remove my perplexity?" When this was said, the ministers stood silent, looking at the king's face.

Now on that occasion the city of Sāgala had been empty for twelve years of ascetics, brahmins, and wise householders, and whenever the king heard of ascetics, brahmins, and wise householders dwelling somewhere, he would go there and ask them questions, but they all, being unable to satisfy the king with their answers to the questions, would depart in one direction or another. Those who do not depart to another direction, all remain silent. But the monks for the most part go to the Himalayas.

8. Now on that occasion a hundred million Accomplished Ones were dwelling on the Rakkhita Plateau in the Himalayas. Then the Venerable Assagutta, having heard King Milinda's words with the divine ear-element, assembled the Community of monks at the peak of Yugandhara and asked the monks: "Friends, is there any monk capable of conversing with King Milinda and removing his perplexity?"

When this was said, the hundred million Accomplished Ones were silent. When asked a second and third time, they were silent. Then the Venerable Assagutta said this to the Community of monks: "Friends, to the east of Vejayanta in the realm of the Thirty-Three, there is a mansion called Ketumatī. There dwells a young deity named Mahāsena. He is capable of conversing with King Milinda and removing his perplexity."

Then a hundred million Arahants vanished from Mount Yugandhara and appeared in the realm of the Thirty-Three. Sakka, lord of deities, saw those monks coming from afar, and having seen them he approached the Venerable Assagutta, and having approached and paid homage to the Venerable Assagutta, he stood to one side. Standing to one side, Sakka, lord of deities, said this to the Venerable Assagutta: "Bhante, a great Community of monks has arrived. I am the monastery attendant. What is needed? What should I do?"

Then the Venerable Assagutta said this to Sakka, lord of deities: "Great king, in the city of Sāgala in Rose-Apple Land there is a king named Milinda who is known as foremost among the many sectarian teachers as a debater, difficult to approach, difficult to overcome. He approaches the Community of monks and harasses the Community of monks by asking questions with wrong views."

Then Sakka, lord of deities, said this to the Venerable Assagutta: "Bhante, this King Milinda was reborn among human beings after passing away from here. That young deity named Mahāsena who dwells in the Ketumatī mansion is capable of conversing with King Milinda and removing his perplexity. Let us request that young deity for rebirth in the human world."

Then Sakka, lord of deities, having placed the Community of monks in front, entered the Ketumatī mansion and, embracing the young deity Mahāsena, said this: "Friend, the Community of monks requests you for rebirth in the human world." "I have no need of the human world, Venerable Sir, which is full of action. The human world is intense. Right here, Venerable Sir, in the world of deities, I will attain final Nibbāna after being reborn in successively higher realms." For the second time...etc... When requested for the third time by Sakka, lord of deities, the young deity Mahāsena said this: "I have no need of the human world, Venerable Sir, which is full of action. The human world is intense. Right here, Venerable Sir, in the world of deities, I will attain final Nibbāna after being reborn in successively higher realms."

Then the Venerable Assagutta said this to the young deity Mahāsena: "Friend, surveying the world with its deities, we do not see anyone else except you capable of refuting King Milinda's doctrine and upholding the Teaching. The Community of monks requests you, friend. Please, good person, take rebirth in the human world and uphold the Teaching of the One of Ten Powers." When this was said, the young deity Mahāsena, thinking "I will be capable of refuting King Milinda's doctrine and upholding the Buddha's Teaching," became elated and exultant and gave his promise: "Very well, Venerable Sir, I will be born in the human world."

9. Then those monks, having completed their business in the world of deities, disappeared from among the Thirty-Three deities and appeared on the Rakkhita Plateau in the Himalayas.

Then the Venerable Assagutta said this to the Community of monks: "Friends, is there any monk in this Community who has not come to the assembly?" When this was said, a certain monk said this to the Venerable Assagutta: "Venerable Sir, there is the Venerable Rohaṇa who entered the Himavanta mountain seven days ago and attained cessation. Send a messenger to him." At that very moment, the Venerable Rohaṇa emerged from cessation thinking "The Community awaits me," disappeared from the Himavanta mountain and appeared before a hundred million Arahants at Rakkhitatala.

Then the Venerable Assagutta said this to the Venerable Rohaṇa: "Friend Rohaṇa, do you not see what needs to be done for the Community when the Buddha's Dispensation is being broken?" "I was inattentive, Venerable Sir."

"Then, friend Rohaṇa, do the punishment." "What shall I do, Venerable Sir?" "Friend Rohaṇa, on the side of the Himavanta mountain there is a brahmin village called Gajaṅgala, where lives a brahmin named Soṇuttara. His son will be born, a boy named Nāgasena. Therefore, friend Rohaṇa, for seven years and ten months you must enter that family for alms, take out the boy Nāgasena and make him go forth. Only when he has gone forth will you be released from the punishment." The Venerable Rohaṇa too agreed saying "Very well."

10. The young deity Mahāsena, passing away from the world of deities, took rebirth in the womb of the brahmin Soṇuttara's wife. At the moment of rebirth, three wonderful and marvellous things appeared: weapons blazed up, the best crop was produced, and a great cloud poured down rain. From the time of his rebirth, the Venerable Rohaṇa went to that family for alms for seven years and ten months, but did not receive even a spoonful of food or a ladle of gruel, nor a greeting, nor a reverential salutation, nor any proper respect. Instead, he received only abuse and scolding. There was not even anyone to say the mere words "Pass by, Venerable Sir." But after seven years and ten months had passed, one day he received just the words "Pass by, Venerable Sir." That very day, the brahmin, returning from work outside, saw the elder on the road and said: "Hey, ascetic, did you go to our house?" "Yes, brahmin, we went." "Did you receive anything?" "Yes, brahmin, we received." He, displeased, went home and asked: "Did you give anything to that ascetic?" "We did not give anything." The next day, the brahmin sat right at his house door thinking: "Today I will catch this ascetic in false speech." The next day, the elder arrived at the brahmin's house door.

The brahmin, upon seeing the elder, said this: "Yesterday, without receiving anything at our house, you said 'we received.' Is false speech proper for you?" The elder said: "Brahmin, in your house for seven years and ten months we did not receive even the mere words 'Pass by', but yesterday we received just the words 'Pass by', and because of this verbal courtesy we spoke thus."

The brahmin reflected: "These ones praise in public 'we received' even getting just a mere verbal courtesy, why do they not praise when receiving any other food or meal?" Having gained faith, he had them given a spoonful of food from the meal prepared for himself, along with suitable curry, and said: "You will receive this food at all times."

From the next day onwards, seeing the peace of the elder who came visiting, he gained even more confidence and asked the elder to regularly receive alms-food at his house. The elder consented by remaining silent and each day after his meal, when leaving he would speak a little of the Buddha's word. After ten months, the brahmin woman gave birth to a son, they named him "Nāgasena", and growing up gradually he became seven years old.

11. Then Nāgasena's father said this to the child Nāgasena: "Dear Nāgasena, in this brahmin family you should train in the trainings." "Father, what are called the trainings in this brahmin family?" "Dear Nāgasena, the three Vedas are called the trainings, the remaining skills are called crafts." "Then, father, I will train."

Then the brahmin Soṇuttara gave a thousand as the teacher's fee to the teacher brahmin, and having prepared a bed in a room inside the mansion, said this to the teacher brahmin: "Brahmin, teach this child the mantras." "Then, dear child, learn the mantras." The teacher brahmin recited, and with a single synopsis the three Vedas became known by heart, mastered, well-established and well-considered by the child Nāgasena. At once his eye of understanding arose regarding the three Vedas with their lexicons and rituals, with their phonology, with histories as the fifth; he became proficient in philology, grammar, and in the marks of a great man and worldly wisdom, without omission.

Then the child Nāgasena said this to his father: "Father, are there in this brahmin family any further trainings beyond this, or is this all?" "There are not, dear Nāgasena, any further trainings in this brahmin family beyond this; these are all the trainings."

Then the child Nāgasena, having given pursuit to the teacher's instruction, descended from the mansion and, prompted by past habitual tendencies, gone to seclusion in solitude, examining the beginning, middle and end of his learning, not seeing even a small amount of substance in the beginning, middle or end, became regretful and discontented, thinking: "These Vedas are indeed hollow, these Vedas are indeed chaff, without substance, without core."

12. Now on that occasion the Venerable Rohaṇa, seated in the Vattaniya lodging, having known with his mind the reflection in the mind of the child Nāgasena, having dressed and taking his bowl and robe, vanished from the Vattaniya lodging and appeared in front of the brahmin village of Gajaṅgala. The child Nāgasena, standing at his doorway, saw the Venerable Rohaṇa coming from afar, and having seen him, pleased, elated, gladdened, filled with rapture and joy, thinking "Perhaps this one gone forth might know some substance," approached the Venerable Rohaṇa, and having approached said this to the Venerable Rohaṇa: "Who are you, friend, looking like this with shaven head and ochre robes?" "I, child, am what is called one gone forth." "Why, friend, are you called one gone forth?" "Child, one banishes evil stains, therefore I am called one gone forth." "Why, friend, is your hair not like others'?" "Child, having seen these sixteen impediments, having shaved off hair and beard, I went forth. "What are the sixteen?" "The impediment of adornment, the impediment of decoration, the impediment of oil-anointing, the impediment of washing, the impediment of garlands, the impediment of fragrance, the impediment of perfuming, the impediment of yellow myrobalan, the impediment of emblic myrobalan, the impediment of dyeing, the impediment of binding, the impediment of combing, the impediment of barbers, the impediment of disentangling, the impediment of lice, when hair is plucked out they sorrow, tire, lament, beat their breast and fall into confusion. Child, enveloped in these sixteen impediments, human beings destroy all subtle crafts." "Why, friend, are your clothes not like others'?" "Child, clothes are based on sensual pleasure, household marks and goods are based on sensual pleasure. Whatever fears arise from clothes do not occur for one wearing ochre robes, therefore my clothes are not like others'." "Do you know what are called crafts, friend?" "Yes, child, I know crafts, and I also know what is the supreme mantra in the world." "Friend, is it possible to give that to me?" "Yes, child, it is possible." "Then give it to me." "It is not the right time, child, we have entered among the houses for alms."

Then the child Nāgasena, having taken the bowl from the Venerable Rohaṇa's hand, having led him into the house, having served and satisfied him with his own hands with excellent food, both hard and soft, when the Venerable Rohaṇa had finished eating and withdrawn his hand from the bowl, said this: "Now give me the mantra, friend." "When you, child, having become free from impediments and having obtained permission from your mother and father, take up the appearance of one gone forth that I have taken, then I will give it," he said.

Then the child Nāgasena approached his mother and father and said: "Mother, father, this one gone forth says 'I know what is the supreme mantra in the world,' but he does not give it to one who has not gone forth in his presence. I will go forth in his presence and learn that supreme mantra." Then his parents, thinking "Even after going forth our son will learn the sacred texts and having learned will come back again," allowed him saying "Learn, son."

13. Then the Venerable Rohaṇa, taking the child Nāgasena, approached the lodging at Vattaniya, approached Vijambhavatthu, and having approached, stayed one night in the lodging at Vijambhavatthu, then approached Rakkhitatala, and having approached, ordained the child Nāgasena in the midst of a hundred crores of arahants. And when ordained, the Venerable Nāgasena said this to the Venerable Rohaṇa: "I have taken your appearance, Venerable Sir, now give me the sacred texts." Then the Venerable Rohaṇa, thinking "In what should I first train Nāgasena, in the Discipline, the Discourses, or the Higher Teaching?" and thinking "This Nāgasena is wise, he can easily master the Higher Teaching," first trained him in the Higher Teaching.

And the Venerable Nāgasena, having mastered with a single recitation all that Abhidhamma Piṭaka - the Dhammasaṅgaṇī text adorned with triads and dyads such as "wholesome states, unwholesome states, undeclared states," the Vibhaṅga text adorned with eighteen divisions beginning with the aggregate division, the Dhātukathā text divided in fourteen ways beginning with "included, not included," the Puggalapaññatti text divided in six ways beginning with "description of aggregates, description of bases," the Kathāvatthu text divided and compiled with a thousand discourses comprising five hundred discourses on one's own doctrine and five hundred discourses on others' doctrine, the Yamaka text divided in ten ways beginning with "root pairs, aggregate pairs," and the Paṭṭhāna text divided in twenty-four ways beginning with "root condition, object condition" - said "Stop, Venerable Sir, do not recite again, with just this much I will recite."

14. Then the Venerable Nāgasena approached those hundred crores of arahants, and having approached, said this to the hundred crores of arahants: "Venerable Sirs, I will recite in detail all that Abhidhamma Piṭaka, arranging it under these three terms 'wholesome states, unwholesome states, undeclared states'." "Good, Nāgasena, recite."

Then the Venerable Nāgasena recited in detail the seven texts for seven months, the earth roared, the deities gave their approval, the brahmās applauded, and divine sandalwood powder and divine mandārava flowers rained down.

15. Then a hundred million Arahants gave higher ordination to the Venerable Nāgasena at Rakkhitatala when he had completed twenty years. And when ordained, the Venerable Nāgasena, when that night had passed, having dressed in the morning and taking his bowl and robe, while entering the village for alms with his preceptor, gave rise to this reflection: "Hollow indeed is my preceptor, foolish indeed is my preceptor. Setting aside the rest of the Buddha's word, he first trained me in the Higher Teaching."

Then the Venerable Rohaṇa, knowing with his mind the reflection in the Venerable Nāgasena's mind, said this to the Venerable Nāgasena: "Nāgasena, you reflect on an improper reflection, this is not proper for you, Nāgasena."

Then this occurred to the Venerable Nāgasena: "It is wonderful, indeed! It is marvellous, indeed, that my preceptor knows the reflection in my mind! Wise indeed is my preceptor. I should ask for forgiveness from my preceptor." Then the Venerable Nāgasena said this to the Venerable Rohaṇa: "Forgive me, Venerable Sir, I will not reflect in such a way again."

Then the Venerable Rohaṇa said this to the Venerable Nāgasena: "I will not forgive you just for this, Nāgasena. There is a city named Sāgala where King Milinda rules the kingdom. He harasses the Community of monks by asking questions with wrong views. If you go there, tame that king and give him confidence in the Buddha's Teaching, then I will forgive you."

"Let be, Venerable Sir, one King Milinda; Venerable Sir, if all the kings in the entire Rose-Apple Land were to come and ask me questions, I would resolve and explain all that," and having said "Forgive me, Venerable Sir," when told "I do not forgive you," he said "Then, Venerable Sir, with whom shall I stay for these three months?" "Venerable Nāgasena, the Venerable Assagutta dwells in the lodging at Vattaniya. Go, Nāgasena, approach the Venerable Assagutta, and having approached, pay homage with your head at the feet of the Venerable Assagutta with my words, and say this to him: 'Venerable Sir, my preceptor pays homage with his head at your feet and asks about your health, little affliction, little illness, lightness, strength, and dwelling in comfort. Venerable Sir, my preceptor has sent me to stay with you for these three months,' and when asked 'What is your preceptor's name?' you should say 'Venerable Sir, the Elder Rohaṇa,' and when asked 'Who am I?' you should say thus: 'Venerable Sir, my preceptor knows your name.'" "Yes, Venerable Sir," the Venerable Nāgasena, having paid homage to the Venerable Rohaṇa and circumambulated him, taking his bowl and robe, wandering by stages, approached the lodging at Vattaniya, approached the Venerable Assagutta, and having approached and paid homage to the Venerable Assagutta, stood to one side. Standing to one side, the Venerable Nāgasena said this to the Venerable Assagutta: "Venerable Sir, my preceptor pays homage with his head at your feet and says thus: he asks about your health, little affliction, little illness, lightness, strength, and dwelling in comfort. Venerable Sir, my preceptor has sent me to stay with you for these three months."

Then the Venerable Assagutta said this to the Venerable Nāgasena: "What is your name?" "I am called Nāgasena, Venerable Sir." "What is your preceptor's name?" "My preceptor, Venerable Sir, is called Rohaṇa." "Who am I?" "Venerable Sir, my preceptor knows your name."

"Good, Nāgasena, put away your bowl and robe." "Yes, Venerable Sir," having put away his bowl and robe, the next day having swept the cell, he arranged water for the face and a tooth-cleaner. The Elder swept again where it was swept, threw away that water and brought other water, and removing that tooth-stick took another tooth-stick, and did not engage in conversation. Having done thus for seven days, on the seventh day having asked again and being told the same by him again, he allowed the rains residence.

16. Now on that occasion a great female lay follower had been supporting the Venerable Assagutta for about thirty years. Then that great female lay follower, after the three months had passed, approached the Venerable Assagutta, and having approached said this to the Venerable Assagutta: "Is there, dear sir, another monk with you?" "There is, great female lay follower, a monk named Nāgasena with us." "Then, dear Assagutta, consent to tomorrow's meal together with Nāgasena." The Venerable Assagutta consented by remaining silent.

Then the Venerable Assagutta, when that night had passed, having dressed in the morning and taking his bowl and robe, with the Venerable Nāgasena as his attendant monk, approached the residence of the great female lay follower, and having approached sat down on the prepared seat. Then that great female lay follower served and satisfied the Venerable Assagutta and the Venerable Nāgasena with her own hands with excellent food, both hard and soft. Then the Venerable Assagutta, when he had finished eating and withdrawn his hand from the bowl, said this to the Venerable Nāgasena: "Nāgasena, give the thanksgiving to the great female lay follower," and having said this, he rose from his seat and departed.

Then that great female lay follower said this to the Venerable Nāgasena: "I am old, dear Nāgasena, give me a thanksgiving with a profound discourse on the Teaching." Then the Venerable Nāgasena gave the thanksgiving to that great female lay follower with profound talk on the Teaching, supramundane, connected with voidness. Then in that great female lay follower, while on that same seat, there arose the vision of the Teaching, stainless and spotless: "Whatever has the nature to arise, all that has the nature to cease." The Venerable Nāgasena too, having given the thanksgiving to that great female lay follower, reviewing the Teaching taught by himself, having established insight, sitting on that same seat, became established in the fruit of stream-entry.

Then the Venerable Assagutta, sitting in the circular pavilion, knowing the attainment of the vision of the Teaching by both, gave his approval: "Good, good, Nāgasena, with one shot of the arrow two great bodies have been pierced," and many thousands of deities gave their approval.

17. Then the Venerable Nāgasena rose from his seat and approached the Venerable Assagutta, and having approached, paid homage to the Venerable Assagutta and sat down to one side. To the Venerable Nāgasena who was seated to one side, the Venerable Assagutta said this: "Go, Nāgasena, to Pāṭaliputta. In the city of Pāṭaliputta, at Asoka's monastery, the Venerable Dhammarakkhita dwells. Master the word of the Buddha in his presence." "How far, Venerable Sir, is the city of Pāṭaliputta from here?" "A hundred yojanas, Nāgasena." "The path is far, Venerable Sir. Almsfood is hard to get along the way, how shall I go?" "Go, Nāgasena, along the way you will receive almsfood of fine rice free from black grains, with many soups and various accompaniments." "Yes, Venerable Sir," the Venerable Nāgasena, having paid homage to the Venerable Assagutta and circumambulated him, took his bowl and robe and set out on tour towards Pāṭaliputta.

18. Now on that occasion the merchant of Pāṭaliputta had set out on the road to Pāṭaliputta with five hundred carts. The merchant of Pāṭaliputta saw the Venerable Nāgasena coming from afar, and having seen him he approached the Venerable Nāgasena, and having approached and paid homage to the Venerable Nāgasena, said "Where are you going, dear sir?" "To Pāṭaliputta, householder." "Good, dear sir, we too are going to Pāṭaliputta. You may travel comfortably with us."

Then the merchant of Pāṭaliputta, having gained confidence in the Venerable Nāgasena's posture, having served and satisfied the Venerable Nāgasena with his own hands with excellent food, both hard and soft, when the Venerable Nāgasena had finished eating and withdrawn his hand from the bowl, took a low seat and sat down to one side. Seated to one side, the merchant of Pāṭaliputta said this to the Venerable Nāgasena: "What is your name, dear sir?" "I am called Nāgasena, householder." "Do you know what is called the word of the Buddha, dear sir?" "I know, householder, the terms of the Higher Teaching." "It is a gain for us, dear sir, it is well-gained for us, dear sir. I too, dear sir, am versed in the Higher Teaching, and you are versed in the Higher Teaching. Speak, dear sir, the terms of the Higher Teaching." Then the Venerable Nāgasena taught the Higher Teaching to the merchant of Pāṭaliputta, and while he was teaching, there arose in the merchant of Pāṭaliputta the vision of the Teaching, stainless and spotless: "Whatever has the nature to arise, all that has the nature to cease."

Then the merchant of Pāṭaliputta, having sent five hundred carts ahead and going behind himself, standing at a crossroads not far from Pāṭaliputta, said this to the Venerable Nāgasena: "This, dear Nāgasena, is the path to Asoka's monastery. This is our precious blanket, sixteen hands in length and eight hands in width. Please accept this precious blanket, dear sir, out of compassion." The Venerable Nāgasena accepted that precious blanket out of compassion. Then the merchant of Pāṭaliputta, pleased, elated, gladdened, filled with rapture and joy, paid homage to the Venerable Nāgasena, circumambulated him, and departed.

19. Then the Venerable Nāgasena approached Asoka's monastery, approached the Venerable Dhammarakkhita, and having approached and paid homage to the Venerable Dhammarakkhita and told the reason for his coming, in just one recitation mastered phrase by phrase the Three Baskets of the Buddha's word in the presence of the Venerable Dhammarakkhita in three months, and in another three months reflected on their meaning mentally.

Then the Venerable Dhammarakkhita said this to the Venerable Nāgasena: "Just as, Nāgasena, a cowherd guards the cows, but others enjoy the milk products. "Even so, Nāgasena, though you retain the Three Baskets of the Buddha's word, you do not share in recluseship." "Let it be, Venerable Sir, that is enough." On that very day and night he attained Arahantship together with the analytical knowledges, and with the penetration of the truths by the Venerable Nāgasena all the deities gave their approval, the earth roared, the brahmās applauded, and divine sandalwood powder and divine mandārava flowers rained down.

20. Now on that occasion a hundred million Accomplished Ones, having assembled at the Rakkhita Plateau in the Himalayas, sent a messenger to the Venerable Nāgasena: "Let Nāgasena come, we wish to see Nāgasena." Then the Venerable Nāgasena, having heard the messenger's words, vanished from Asoka's monastery and appeared before a hundred million Accomplished Ones at the Rakkhita Plateau in the Himalayas.

Then the hundred million Accomplished Ones said this to the Venerable Nāgasena: "Nāgasena, this King Milinda harasses the Community of monks with debate and counter-debate, with asking questions." "Good, Nāgasena, go and tame King Milinda." "Let be, Venerable Sir, one King Milinda; Venerable Sir, if kings in the entire Rose-Apple Land were to come and ask me questions, I would resolve and explain all that, go, Venerable Sirs, fearlessly to the city of Sāgala." Then the elder monks made the city of Sāgala bright with ochre robes, with ascetics moving to and fro.

21. Now on that occasion the Venerable Āyupāla was dwelling in the Saṅkheyya Monastery. Then King Milinda said this to his ministers: "How delightful indeed is this moonlit night. Which ascetic or brahmin might we approach today for discussion and asking questions? Who is able to make the effort to converse with me and remove my perplexity?" When this was said, five hundred Greeks said this to King Milinda: "There is, great king, an elder named Āyupāla who knows the Three Baskets, is learned, has mastered the tradition; go, great king, ask the Venerable Āyupāla questions." "In that case, I say, inform the Venerable One."

Then the astrologer sent a messenger to the Venerable Āyupāla: "Venerable Sir, King Milinda wishes to see the Venerable Āyupāla." The Venerable Āyupāla also said: "Then let him come." Then King Milinda, surrounded by about five hundred Greeks, mounted the excellent chariot and approached the Venerable Āyupāla at Sankheyya monastery, and having approached, exchanged greetings with the Venerable Āyupāla and, after exchanging courteous and cordial greetings, sat down to one side. Seated to one side, King Milinda said this to the Venerable Āyupāla: "Venerable Āyupāla, what is the purpose of your going forth, and what is your highest goal?" The elder said: "Great king, the purpose of going forth is to live by the Teaching and righteously, and our highest goal is the fruit of asceticism." "But, Venerable Sir, are there any householders who live by the Teaching and righteously?" "Yes, great king, there are householders who live by the Teaching and righteously. Great king, when the Blessed One set in motion the wheel of the Teaching at the Deer Park in Isipatana near Bārāṇasī, eighteen koṭis of Brahmās had a breakthrough to the Teaching, and the breakthrough to the Teaching by deities was beyond calculation, and all these were householders, not those gone forth.

"Furthermore, great king, when the Blessed One taught the Great Assembly Discourse, when he taught the Great Blessing Discourse, when he taught the Discourse on the Analysis of Equal-mindedness, when he taught the Discourse of Advice to Rāhula, when he taught the Discourse on Downfall, the breakthrough to the Teaching by deities was beyond calculation, and all these were householders, not those gone forth." "Then, Venerable Sir Āyupāla, your going forth is purposeless, the ascetics who are sons of the Sakyan go forth and maintain the ascetic practices due to the result of evil action done in the past. Those monks, Venerable Sir Āyupāla, who eat at one sitting, were surely thieves who stole others' wealth in the past, having stolen others' wealth, as a result of that action they now eat at one sitting, they do not get to eat from time to time, they have no virtue, no austerity, no holy life. Those monks, Venerable Sir Āyupāla, who live in the open air, were surely thieves who destroyed villages in the past, having destroyed others' houses, as a result of that action they now live in the open air, they do not get to use lodgings, they have no virtue, no austerity, no holy life. Those monks, Venerable Sir Āyupāla, who practice the sitter's practice, were surely thieves who waylaid travellers in the past, having caught travellers on the road and bound them and made them sit, as a result of that action they now practice the sitter's practice, they do not get to lie down, they have no virtue, no austerity, no holy life."

When this was said, the Venerable Āyupāla remained silent, he did not reply anything. Then five hundred Greeks said this to King Milinda: "The elder is wise, great king, but being diffident he does not say anything."

Then King Milinda, seeing the Venerable Āyupāla silent, clapped his hands and shouted, and said this to the Greeks: "Empty indeed is Rose-Apple Land, hollow indeed is Rose-Apple Land, there is no ascetic or brahmin who is able to make the effort to converse with me and remove my perplexity."

22. Then as King Milinda looked over that entire assembly and saw the Greeks unafraid and not dejected, this occurred to him: "Without doubt there must be some other wise monk who is able to converse with me, since these Greeks are not dejected." Then King Milinda said this to the Greeks: "Look here, is there any other wise monk who is able to make the effort to converse with me and remove my perplexity?"

Now on that occasion the Venerable Nāgasena - surrounded by a group of ascetics, leader of a community, teacher of a group, well-known, famous, well-respected by many people, wise, intelligent, sagacious, subtle, knowledgeable, discerning, disciplined, confident, learned, master of the Three Baskets, expert in the scriptures, of penetrating wisdom, master of the traditions, possessed of analytical knowledge, expert in the Teacher's nine-factored Dispensation, bearer of the tradition, attained to perfection in the Victor's word, skilled in penetrating the Teaching, its meaning and explanation, of inexhaustible and varied ingenuity, a brilliant speaker, of good utterance, difficult to attack, difficult to overcome, difficult to refute, difficult to obstruct, difficult to resist, unshakeable like the ocean, immovable like the king of mountains, abandoning conflict, dispelling darkness, making light, a great speaker, crusher of other groups and sects, defeater of other religious adherents, respected, revered, honoured, venerated and esteemed by monks, nuns, male lay followers, female lay followers, kings and royal ministers, recipient of robes, almsfood, lodging and medicinal requisites, having attained the highest gain and fame, endowed with the attention of the wise and mature who listen, showing the nine-factored jewel of the Victor's Dispensation, pointing out the path of the Teaching, bearing the lamp of the Teaching, raising up the pillar of the Teaching, offering the sacrifice of the Teaching, holding aloft the banner of the Teaching, raising up the standard of the Teaching, blowing the conch of the Teaching, beating the drum of the Teaching, roaring the lion's roar, thundering like Indra, refreshing the whole world with a great cloud of the Deathless Teaching, encompassed by a network of excellent knowledge-lightning, filled with the water of compassion, with sweet-voiced thunder - while wandering on tour through villages, towns and royal cities, had gradually arrived at the city of Sāgala. There the Venerable Nāgasena dwelt at Saṅkheyya Monastery together with eighty thousand monks. Therefore the ancients said -

23. Then Devamantiya said this to King Milinda: "Wait, great king; There is, great king, an elder named Nāgasena who is wise, intelligent, sagacious, disciplined, confident, learned, a brilliant speaker, of good ingenuity, attained to perfection in analytical knowledge of meaning, Teaching, language and discernment. He now dwells in Sankheyya monastery. Go, great king, ask the Venerable Nāgasena questions. He is able to converse with you and remove your perplexity." Then as soon as King Milinda heard the sound "Nāgasena," he was struck with fear, trepidation, and terror. Then King Milinda said this to Devamantiya: "Is the monk Nāgasena able to converse with me?" "He is able, great king, to converse even with Inda, Yama, Varuṇa, Kuvera, Pajāpati, Suyāma, Santusita, the world-guardians, and with the great Brahmā, grandfather of grandfathers - how much more so with one who is human?"

Then King Milinda said this to Devamantiya: "Then, Devamantiya, send a messenger to the Venerable One." "Yes, your majesty." Then Devamantiya sent a messenger to the Venerable Nāgasena: "Venerable Sir, King Milinda wishes to see the Venerable One." The Venerable Nāgasena also said: "Then let him come."

Then King Milinda, surrounded by about five hundred Greeks, mounted the excellent chariot and approached the Venerable Nāgasena at Sankheyya monastery together with a large army. Now on that occasion the Venerable Nāgasena was seated in the circular pavilion together with eighty thousand monks. King Milinda saw the Venerable Nāgasena's assembly from afar, and having seen it, said this to Devamantiya: "Devamantiya, whose is this large assembly?" "Great king, this is the Venerable Nāgasena's assembly."

Then when King Milinda saw the Venerable Nāgasena's assembly from afar, he was struck with fear, trepidation, and terror. Then King Milinda - like an elephant surrounded by swordsmen, like a dragon surrounded by garuḷas, like a fox surrounded by pythons, like a bear surrounded by buffaloes, like a frog pursued by a dragon, like a deer pursued by a tiger, like a serpent encountering a snake charmer, like a mouse encountering a cat, like a spirit encountering an exorcist, like the moon entering Rāhu's mouth, like a serpent gone between boxes, like a bird gone between cages, like a fish gone into a net, like a person entered into a forest of beasts, like a spirit who has offended Vessavaṇa, like a young deity whose life span is exhausted - frightened, terrified, fearful, agitated, with hair standing on end, perplexed, depressed, with confused mind and altered consciousness, having established mindfulness thinking "May this assembly not despise me," said this to Devamantiya - "Do not, Devamantiya, point out the Venerable Nāgasena to me, I will know Nāgasena without being told." "Very well, great king, you yourself know."

Now on that occasion the Venerable Nāgasena was junior to forty thousand monks in front of that assembly of monks and senior to forty thousand monks behind.

Then King Milinda, looking at all that Community of monks in front, behind and in the middle, saw the Venerable Nāgasena from afar seated in the midst of the Community of monks like a maned lion, free from fear and terror, free from terror, free from fear and timidity, and seeing him, knew by his aspect: "This indeed is Nāgasena here."

Then King Milinda said this to Devamantiya: "This, Devamantiya, is the Venerable Nāgasena." "Yes, great king, this is Nāgasena, you have understood Nāgasena well, great king." Then the king was pleased: "I understood Nāgasena without being told." Then when King Milinda saw the Venerable Nāgasena, he was struck with fear, trepidation, and terror.

Therefore they said -

The External Talk is concluded.

2-3.

The Questions of Milinda

1.

The Great Chapter

1.

The Question on Description

1. Then King Milinda approached the Venerable Nāgasena, and having approached, exchanged greetings with the Venerable Nāgasena and, after exchanging courteous and cordial greetings, sat down to one side. The Venerable Nāgasena too delighted King Milinda's mind with his cordial response. Then King Milinda said this to the Venerable Nāgasena: "How is the Venerable One known, what is your name, Venerable Sir?" "I am known, great king, as 'Nāgasena'; my fellow monks, great king, address me as 'Nāgasena'; and parents give names such as 'Nāgasena' or 'Sūrasena' or 'Vīrasena' or 'Sīhasena', but great king, 'Nāgasena' is just a term, description, designation, expression, a mere name; no individual is found here."

Then King Milinda said this: "Let the five hundred Greeks and eighty thousand monks listen to me. This Nāgasena says 'no individual is found here.' Is it proper to approve of that?" Then King Milinda said this to the Venerable Nāgasena: "If, Venerable Nāgasena, no individual is found, who then gives you robes, almsfood, lodgings and medicinal requisites, who uses them, who keeps virtue, who applies oneself to development, who realizes the paths, fruits and Nibbāna, who destroys life, who takes what is not given, who engages in sexual misconduct, who speaks falsehood, who drinks intoxicants, who commits the five deeds of immediate retribution? Therefore there is no wholesome, there is no unwholesome, there is no doer or one who causes to do wholesome and unwholesome actions, there is no result or consequence of good and bad actions. If, Venerable Nāgasena, someone kills you, there is also no destruction of life for him, and you, Venerable Nāgasena, have no teacher, no preceptor, no higher ordination. When you say 'Fellow monks address me as Nāgasena', who is this Nāgasena here? "Are the head-hairs Nāgasena, Venerable Sir?" "No, great king." "Are the body-hairs Nāgasena?" "No, great king." "Are the nails...etc... teeth...etc... skin...etc... flesh...etc... sinews...etc... bones...etc... bone-marrow...etc... kidneys...etc... heart...etc... liver...etc... pleura...etc... spleen...etc... lungs...etc... intestines...etc... mesentery...etc... undigested food...etc... excrement...etc... bile...etc... phlegm...etc... pus...etc... blood...etc... sweat...etc... fat...etc... tears...etc... grease...etc... saliva...etc... nasal mucus...etc... synovial fluid...etc... urine...etc... brain in the head Nāgasena?" "No, great king." "Is form Nāgasena, Venerable Sir?" "No, great king." "Is feeling Nāgasena?" "No, great king." "Is perception Nāgasena?" "No, great king." "Are formations Nāgasena?" "No, great king." "Is consciousness Nāgasena?" "No, great king." "But, Venerable Sir, is form, feeling, perception, formations and consciousness Nāgasena?" "No, great king." "But, Venerable Sir, is there Nāgasena apart from form, feeling, perception, formations and consciousness?" "No, great king." "Venerable Sir, though I keep asking, I do not see Nāgasena. Is just the sound 'Nāgasena' Nāgasena, Venerable Sir?" "No, great king." "Who then is Nāgasena here? You speak falsehood, Venerable Sir, a lie; there is no Nāgasena."

Then the Venerable Nāgasena said this to King Milinda: "You, great king, are a delicate noble, extremely delicate. If you, great king, were to come walking at noon on hot ground, hot sand, rough with gravel and pebbles, your feet would hurt, your body would be tired, your mind would be afflicted, painful bodily consciousness would arise - did you come on foot or by vehicle?" "I did not come on foot, Venerable Sir, I came by chariot." "If you came by chariot, great king, tell me the chariot. Is the pole the chariot?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Is the axle the chariot?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Are the wheels the chariot?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Is the chariot-body the chariot?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Is the chariot-pole the chariot?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Is the yoke the chariot?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Are the reins the chariot?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Is the goad-stick the chariot?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Great king, are the pole, axle, wheels, chariot-body, chariot-pole, yoke, reins and goad the chariot?" "No, Venerable Sir." "But great king, is there a chariot apart from the pole, axle, wheels, chariot-body, chariot-pole, yoke, reins and goad?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Though I keep asking, great king, I do not see a chariot. Is just the sound 'chariot' the chariot, great king?" "No, Venerable Sir." "What then is the chariot here? You speak falsehood, great king, a lie; there is no chariot. You are the foremost king in all of Rose-Apple Land, but out of fear of whom do you speak falsehood? Let the five hundred Greeks and eighty thousand monks listen to me. This King Milinda says 'I came by chariot,' but when asked 'If you came by chariot, great king, tell me the chariot,' he does not establish a chariot. Is it proper to approve of that?" When this was said, five hundred Greeks gave applause to the Venerable Nāgasena and said this to King Milinda: "Now, great king, speak if you can."

Then King Milinda said this to the Venerable Nāgasena: "I do not speak falsehood, Venerable Nāgasena, it is in dependence on the pole, in dependence on the axle, in dependence on the wheels, in dependence on the chariot-body, in dependence on the chariot-pole that 'chariot' occurs as a term, designation, description, expression, just a mere name."

"It is good, great king, that you know a chariot; even so, great king, in dependence on hair of the head, in dependence on body hair... etc... in dependence on the brain in the skull, in dependence on form, in dependence on feeling, in dependence on perception, in dependence on formations, and in dependence on consciousness, 'Nāgasena' occurs as a term, designation, description, expression, just a mere name, but in the ultimate sense no individual is found here. This too was spoken, great king, by the nun Vajirā in the presence of the Blessed One -

"Wonderful, Venerable Sir Nāgasena, marvellous, Venerable Sir Nāgasena, very ingenious answers to questions have been given. If the Buddha were alive he would give his approval: 'Good, good, Nāgasena, very ingenious answers to questions have been given.'"

The First Question on Description.

2.

The Question About Counting Years

2. "How many years are you, Venerable Sir Nāgasena?" "I am seven years, great king." "What are these seven, are you seven, or is the counting seven?"

Now on that occasion King Milinda's shadow, who was adorned with all ornaments and fully decorated, was visible on the earth and in a water pot. Then the Venerable Nāgasena said this to King Milinda: "Your shadow, great king, appears on the ground and in a water-pot. But great king, are you the king, or is the shadow the king?" "I am the king, Venerable Nāgasena, this shadow is not the king, but the shadow occurs in dependence on me." "Even so, great king, the counting of years is seven, but I am not seven, seven occurs in dependence on me, it is like a shadow, great king." "Wonderful, Venerable Sir Nāgasena, marvellous, Venerable Sir Nāgasena, very ingenious answers to questions have been given."

The Question about Counting Years is second.

3.

The Question About Investigation

3. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, will you converse with me?" "If you, great king, will converse as wise men do, I will converse. But if you will converse as kings do, I will not converse." "How, Venerable Nāgasena, do wise men converse?" "Great king, in the conversation of wise men there is unravelling and ravelling, there is reproof and correction, there is intimacy and counter-intimacy, yet wise men do not become angry at this. This, great king, is how wise men converse." "But how, Venerable Sir, do kings converse?" "Great king, in conversation kings assert one point, and when someone contradicts that point, they order punishment for him saying 'Impose punishment on this man!' This, great king, is how kings converse." "Venerable Sir, I will converse as wise men do, not as kings do. Let the Venerable One converse freely as he would with a monk, or a novice, or a male lay follower, or a monastery attendant. Let the Venerable One converse freely without fear." "Very good, great king," the elder approved.

The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, I will ask." "Ask, great king." "I have asked you, Venerable Sir." "It has been answered, great king." "But what, Venerable Sir, has been answered by you?" "But what, great king, has been asked by you?"

The Third Question about Investigation.

4.

The Question About the Infinite Body

4. Then this occurred to King Milinda: "This monk is wise and able to converse with me, and there will be many points for me to ask about. Until those points are asked about, the sun will set. What if I were to converse tomorrow in the inner palace?" Then the king said this to Devamantiya: "Then, Devamantiya, inform the Venerable One: 'Tomorrow there will be a conversation with the king in the inner palace.'" Having said this, King Milinda rose from his seat, took leave of the elder Nāgasena, mounted his chariot, and departed reciting "Nāgasena, Nāgasena."

Then Devamantiya said this to the Venerable Nāgasena: "Venerable Sir, King Milinda says thus: 'Tomorrow there will be a conversation with the king in the inner palace.'" "Very good," the elder approved. Then, when that night had passed, Devamantiyo, Anantakāya, Maṅkura, and Sabbadinno approached King Milinda, and having approached said this to King Milinda: "Will the Venerable Nāgasena come, great king?" "Yes, let him come." "With how many monks should he come?" "Let him come with as many monks as he wishes."

Then Sabbadinno said: "Let him come, great king, with ten monks," and a second time the king said: "Let him come with as many monks as he wishes." A second time Sabbadinno said: "Let him come, great king, with ten monks." A third time the king said: "Let him come with as many monks as he wishes." A third time Sabbadinno said: "Let him come, great king, with ten monks." "All this honour has been prepared, I say 'Let him come with as many monks as he wishes.' This Sabbadinno, I say, speaks otherwise; are we not capable of giving food to the monks?" When this was said, Sabbadinno became embarrassed.

Then Devamantiya, Anantakāya, and Maṅkura approached the Venerable Nāgasena, and having approached said this to the Venerable Nāgasena: "Venerable Sir, King Milinda says thus: 'Let him come with as many monks as he wishes.'" Then the Venerable Nāgasena, having dressed in the morning and taking his bowl and robe, entered Sāgala together with eighty thousand monks.

Then Anantakāya, walking close to the Venerable Nāgasena, said this to the Venerable Nāgasena: "Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'Nāgasena', who is this Nāgasena here?" The Elder said: "Who do you conceive here as 'Nāgasena'?" "Venerable Sir, I conceive that living breath which enters and exits within as 'Nāgasena'." "But if that breath, having gone out, would not enter, or having entered, would not exit, would that person live?" "No, Venerable Sir." "When these conch-blowers blow their conches, does their breath enter again?" "No, Venerable Sir." "When these flute-players blow their flutes, does their breath enter again?" "No, Venerable Sir." "When these horn-blowers blow their horns, does their breath enter again?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Then why do they not die because of that?" "I am not capable of conversing with a skilled speaker like you. Please, Venerable Sir, explain the meaning." The Elder explained the Abhidhamma teaching: "This is not a soul; in-breathing and out-breathing are called bodily formations." Then Anantakāya declared his lay followership.

The Question about the Infinite Body, fourth.

5.

The Question About Going Forth

5. Then the Venerable Nāgasena approached King Milinda's residence, and having approached, sat down on the prepared seat. Then King Milinda served and satisfied the Venerable Nāgasena and his retinue with his own hands with excellent food, both hard and soft, and having clothed each monk with a pair of cloths, and having clothed the Venerable Nāgasena with the triple robe, said this to the Venerable Nāgasena: "Venerable Nāgasena, sit here with ten monks, let the rest go."

Then King Milinda, knowing that the Venerable Nāgasena had finished eating and withdrawn his hand from the bowl, took a low seat and sat down to one side. Seated to one side, King Milinda said this to the Venerable Nāgasena: "Venerable Nāgasena, what shall our conversation be about?" "Great king, we are concerned with the goal, let the discussion be about the goal."

The king said: "Venerable Nāgasena, what is the purpose of your going forth, and what is your highest goal?" The elder said: "Great king, it is so that this suffering might cease and no other suffering might arise. Great king, this is the purpose of our going forth, and our highest goal is final Nibbāna without clinging."

"But Venerable Nāgasena, do all go forth for this purpose?" "No, great king, not all go forth for this purpose. Some go forth compelled by kings, some go forth compelled by thieves, some go forth because of debt, some go forth for the sake of livelihood, but those who go forth rightly, they go forth for this purpose."

"But did you, Venerable Sir, go forth for this purpose?" "When I went forth, great king, I was young and did not know 'I am going forth for this purpose', but I thought thus: 'These Sakyan ascetics are wise, they will train me', and having been trained by them, I now know and see 'for this purpose is the going forth'."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question about Going Forth, the fifth.

6.

The Question About Relinking

6. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, is there anyone who dies and does not relink?" The Elder said: "Some relink and some do not relink." "Who relinks and who does not relink?" "One with defilements, great king, relinks; one without defilements does not relink." "But will you, Venerable Nāgasena, relink?" "If, great king, I will have clinging I will relink, if I will be without clinging I will not relink."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The sixth question about relinking.

7.

The Question About Careful Attention

7. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, one who does not relink, does he not relink through careful attention?" "Through careful attention, great king, and through wisdom and through other wholesome qualities." "Venerable Sir, is not careful attention itself wisdom?" "No, great king, attention is one thing, wisdom is another. Even these goats, sheep, cattle, buffaloes, camels and donkeys have attention, but they do not have wisdom."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question about Careful Attention is the seventh.

8.

The Question About the Characteristic of Attention

8. The king said: "Venerable Nāgasena, what is the characteristic of attention, what is the characteristic of wisdom?" "Great king, the characteristic of attention is taking up, the characteristic of wisdom is cutting off."

"How is attention characterized by taking up, how is wisdom characterized by cutting off? Make a simile." "Do you know, great king, about barley reapers?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, I know." "How, great king, do barley reapers cut barley?" "Venerable Sir, they take hold of the bundle of barley with the left hand, take hold of the sickle with the right hand, and cut with the sickle."

"Just as, great king, the barley reaper takes hold of the bundle of barley with the left hand, takes hold of the sickle with the right hand and cuts the barley, even so, great king, the spiritual practitioner takes hold of the mind with attention and cuts off the defilements with wisdom. Thus, great king, attention is characterized by taking up, thus wisdom is characterized by cutting off."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Eighth Question about the Characteristic of Attention.

9.

The Question About the Characteristic of Virtuous Behaviour

9. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'and through other wholesome qualities', what are those wholesome qualities?" "Virtue, great king, faith, energy, mindfulness, concentration - these are those wholesome qualities." "What, Venerable Sir, is the characteristic of virtue?" "Virtue, great king, has the characteristic of being the support for all wholesome qualities - virtue is the support for the faculties, powers, enlightenment factors, path factors, establishments of mindfulness, right strivings, bases for spiritual power, meditative absorptions, deliverances, concentration, and attainments. Great king, a spiritual practitioner established in virtue, depending on virtue, established in virtue, develops the five faculties: the faculty of faith, the faculty of energy, the faculty of mindfulness, the faculty of concentration, the faculty of wisdom, and all wholesome qualities do not deteriorate." "Make a simile." "Just as, great king, whatever seed-life and plant-life attain growth, increase and expansion, all attain growth, increase and expansion based upon the earth, established upon the earth. Even so, great king, a spiritual practitioner depending on virtue, established in virtue, develops the five faculties: the faculty of faith, the faculty of energy, the faculty of mindfulness, the faculty of concentration, the faculty of wisdom."

"Make another simile." "Just as, great king, whatever activities requiring strength are done, all are done depending on and established upon the earth. Even so, great king, a spiritual practitioner depending on virtue, established in virtue, develops the five faculties: the faculty of faith, the faculty of energy, the faculty of mindfulness, the faculty of concentration, the faculty of wisdom."

"Make another simile." "Just as, great king, a city architect wishing to build a city first gets the city site cleared, gets stumps and thorns removed, gets the ground levelled, and then afterwards divides it by marking out streets, crossroads, intersections and such, and builds the city. Even so, great king, a spiritual practitioner depending on virtue, established in virtue, develops the five faculties: the faculty of faith, the faculty of energy, the faculty of mindfulness, the faculty of concentration, the faculty of wisdom."

"Make another simile." "Just as, great king, an acrobat wishing to display his skill gets the ground dug up, gets gravel and stones removed, gets the ground levelled, and displays his skill on the soft ground. Even so, great king, a spiritual practitioner depending on virtue, established in virtue, develops the five faculties: the faculty of faith, the faculty of energy, the faculty of mindfulness, the faculty of concentration, the faculty of wisdom. This too was spoken by the Blessed One -

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question about the Characteristic of Virtuous Behavior is ninth.

10.

The Question About Faith with the Characteristic of Confidence

10. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, what is the characteristic of faith?" "Great king, faith has the characteristic of confidence and the characteristic of leaping forward." "Venerable Sir, how is faith characterized by confidence?" "Great king, when faith arises it suppresses the hindrances, the mind becomes free from hindrances, clear, bright, untroubled. This, great king, is how faith is characterized by confidence."

"Make a simile." "Great king, suppose a wheel-turning monarch travelling on a journey with his fourfold army were to cross a small body of water, that water would become stirred up, turbid, disturbed and muddy due to the elephants, horses, chariots and infantry. And having crossed over, the wheel-turning monarch would command the people: 'Bring me drinking water, I wish to drink,' and the king would have a water-purifying gem. 'Yes, your majesty,' those people, having responded to the wheel-turning monarch, would drop that water-purifying gem into the water, and as soon as it was dropped into that water, the conch shells, moss and mud would disappear, and the sediment would settle, and the water would become clear, bright and unturbid. Then they would offer the drinking water to the wheel-turning monarch: 'Drink, your majesty, the water.'

"Great king, just as the water, so should the mind be seen; just as those people, so should the practitioner be seen; just as the conch shells, moss and mud, so should the defilements be seen. Just as a water-purifying gem, so faith should be seen; just as when a water-purifying gem is dropped into water, the conch shells, moss and mud would disappear, and the sediment would settle, and the water would become clear, bright and unturbid, even so, great king, when faith arises it suppresses the hindrances, the mind becomes free from hindrances, clear, bright, untroubled. This, great king, is how faith is characterized by confidence.

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question about Faith with the Characteristic of Confidence is the tenth.

11.

The Question About Faith with the Characteristic of Leaping Forward

11. "How, Venerable Sir, is faith characterized by leaping forward?" "Just as, great king, when a spiritual practitioner sees the liberated minds of others, he leaps forward towards stream-entry fruition, or once-returner fruition, or non-returner fruition, or Arahantship, and makes effort for attaining the unattained, for achieving the unachieved, for realizing the unrealized. This, great king, is how faith is characterized by leaping forward."

"Make a simile." "Just as, great king, when a great cloud would rain heavily on a mountaintop, that water flowing downwards would fill the mountain clefts, crevices and streams, and would fill the river, and it would flow overflowing both banks, and then a great crowd of people would come and, not knowing the shallowness or depth of that river, would stand frightened and hesitant on the bank, then some person would come and, considering his own strength and power, would bind his belt tightly, leap forward and cross over, and seeing him crossed over, the great crowd of people would also cross over. Even so, great king, when a spiritual practitioner sees the liberated minds of others, he leaps forward towards stream-entry fruition, or once-returner fruition, or non-returner fruition, or Arahantship, and makes effort for attaining the unattained, for achieving the unachieved, for realizing the unrealized. This, great king, is how faith is characterized by leaping forward." This too was spoken by the Blessed One in the excellent Connected Discourses -

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question about Faith with the Characteristic of Leaping Forward is Eleventh.

12.

The Question About the Characteristic of Energy

12. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, what is the characteristic of energy?" "Energy, great king, has the characteristic of supporting, and when supported by energy all wholesome qualities do not deteriorate."

"Make a simile." "Just as, great king, when a house is falling down, a person would support it with another timber, and being thus supported that house would not fall down. Even so, great king, energy has the characteristic of supporting, and when supported by energy all wholesome qualities do not deteriorate."

"Make another simile." "Just as, great king, a large army would crush a small army, then the king would encourage and send forth one after another and give strength step by step to his small army, and together with that, the small army would crush the large army. Even so, great king, energy has the characteristic of supporting, and when supported by energy all wholesome qualities do not deteriorate. This too was spoken by the Blessed One - 'The energetic noble disciple, monks, abandons the unwholesome, develops the wholesome. He abandons what is blameworthy, develops what is blameless. He maintains himself in purity.'"

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question about the Characteristic of Energy - Twelfth.

13.

The Question About the Characteristic of Mindfulness

13. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, what is the characteristic of mindfulness?" "Mindfulness, great king, is characterized by non-floating away and by taking up." "How, Venerable Sir, is mindfulness characterized by non-floating away?" "When mindfulness arises, great king, it prevents floating away from wholesome and unwholesome states, those deserving blame and those not deserving blame, inferior and sublime states, dark and bright states with their counterparts, thinking 'These are the four foundations of mindfulness, these are the four right strivings, these are the four bases for spiritual power, these are the five faculties, these are the five powers, these are the seven enlightenment factors, this is the Noble Eightfold Path, this is serenity, this is insight, this is true knowledge, this is liberation.' Then the spiritual practitioner pursues things that should be pursued, does not pursue things that should not be pursued. Associates with things that should be associated with, does not associate with things that should not be associated with. This, great king, is how mindfulness is characterized by non-floating away."

"Make a simile." "Just as, great king, the treasurer of a wheel-turning monarch reminds the wheel-turning monarch morning and evening of his glory: 'Your majesty, you have this many elephants, this many horses, this many chariots, this many infantry, this much gold, this much silver, this much property - may your majesty remember this,' thus preventing the king's property from floating away. Even so, great king, when mindfulness arises, it prevents floating away from wholesome and unwholesome states, those deserving blame and those not deserving blame, inferior and sublime states, dark and bright states with their counterparts, thinking 'These are the four foundations of mindfulness, these are the four right strivings, these are the four bases for spiritual power, these are the five faculties, these are the five powers, these are the seven enlightenment factors, this is the Noble Eightfold Path, this is serenity, this is insight, this is true knowledge, this is liberation.' Then the spiritual practitioner pursues things that should be pursued, does not pursue things that should not be pursued. Associates with things that should be associated with, does not associate with things that should not be associated with. This, great king, is how mindfulness is characterized by non-floating away."

"How, Venerable Sir, is mindfulness characterized by taking up?" "When mindfulness arises, great king, it traces the courses of beneficial and harmful things, thinking 'These things are beneficial, these things are harmful. These things are helpful, these things are unhelpful.' Then the spiritual practitioner removes harmful things and takes up beneficial things. He removes unhelpful things and takes up helpful things. This, great king, is how mindfulness is characterized by taking up."

"Make a simile." "Just as, great king, the wheel-turning monarch's jewel of an adviser knows what is beneficial and harmful for the king: 'These are beneficial for the king, these are harmful. These are helpful, these are unhelpful.' Then he removes what is harmful and takes up what is beneficial. He removes what is unhelpful and takes up what is helpful. Even so, great king, when mindfulness arises, it traces the courses of beneficial and harmful things, thinking 'These things are beneficial, these things are harmful. These things are helpful, these things are unhelpful.' Then the spiritual practitioner removes harmful things and takes up beneficial things. He removes unhelpful things and takes up helpful things. This, great king, is how mindfulness is characterized by taking up. This too was spoken by the Blessed One - 'And mindfulness, monks, I say is useful everywhere.'"

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question about the Characteristic of Mindfulness is the thirteenth.

14.

The Question About Concentration

14. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, what is the characteristic of concentration?" "Great king, concentration has the characteristic of being chief, whatever wholesome states there are, all of them have concentration as chief, slanting towards concentration, sloping towards concentration, inclining towards concentration."

"Make a simile." "Just as, great king, in a peaked house whatever rafters there are, all of them slant towards the peak, slope towards the peak, converge upon the peak, and the peak is declared to be their chief. Even so, great king, whatever wholesome states there are, all of them have concentration as chief, slanting towards concentration, sloping towards concentration, inclining towards concentration."

"Make another simile." "Just as, great king, a king might enter battle with his fourfold army, and the entire army - elephants, horses, chariots and infantry - would have him as their chief, slanting towards him, sloping towards him, inclining towards him, and would move around him. Even so, great king, whatever wholesome states there are, all of them have concentration as chief, slanting towards concentration, sloping towards concentration, inclining towards concentration. This, great king, is how concentration is characterized by being chief. This too was spoken by the Blessed One - "Develop concentration, monks, a concentrated monk, monks, understands as it really is."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question about Concentration is the fourteenth.

15.

The Question About the Characteristic of Wisdom

15. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, what is the characteristic of wisdom?" "Great king, I have already said 'the characteristic of wisdom is cutting off', but wisdom also has illumination as its characteristic." "Venerable Sir, how is wisdom characterized by illumination?" "Great king, when wisdom arises, it dispels the darkness of ignorance, generates the light of true knowledge, reveals the radiance of understanding, makes the noble truths manifest. Then the spiritual practitioner sees with right wisdom 'impermanent' or 'suffering' or 'non-self'."

"Make a simile." "Just as, great king, a person would bring a lamp into a dark house, and the lamp that has been brought in would dispel the darkness, generate light, reveal brightness, make forms manifest. Even so, great king, when wisdom arises, it dispels the darkness of ignorance, generates the light of true knowledge, reveals the radiance of understanding, makes the noble truths manifest. Then the spiritual practitioner sees with right wisdom 'impermanent' or 'suffering' or 'non-self'. This, great king, is how wisdom is characterized by illumination."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question about the Characteristic of Wisdom is the fifteenth.

16.

The Question About Different Things Accomplishing a Single Function

16. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, do these different things accomplish a single purpose?" "Yes, great king, these different things accomplish a single purpose, they destroy the defilements."

"Venerable, how do these different things accomplish a single purpose, destroy the defilements? "Make a simile." "Just as, great king, the different divisions of an army - elephants, horses, chariots and infantry - accomplish a single purpose, conquering the enemy army in battle. Even so, great king, these different things accomplish a single purpose, they destroy the defilements."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question about Different Things Accomplishing a Single Function, the Sixteenth.

The Great Chapter is First.

In this chapter there are sixteen questions.

2.

The Chapter on the Course

1.

Question About the Continuity of States

1. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, is one who is born that same one, or another?" The Elder said "Neither that one nor another."

"Make a simile." "What do you think, great king, when you were a young infant lying on your back, are you that same person now when grown up?" "No, Venerable Sir, that young infant lying on its back was one person, and I who am now grown up am another." "In that case, great king, there would be no mother, no father, no teacher, no one skilled in craft, no one virtuous, no one wise. But great king, is the mother of the embryonic fluid one person, the mother of the embryonic mass another, the mother of the flesh another, the mother of the lump another, the mother of the small child another, the mother of the grown up another, is it one who learns a craft, another who becomes skilled, one who does evil actions, another whose hands and feet are cut off?" "No, Venerable Sir. But when this is said, what would you say, Venerable Sir?" The elder said: "I indeed, great king, was that young infant lying on my back, and I indeed am now grown up - all those are included in dependence on this same body."

"Make another simile." "Just as, great king, if some person were to light a lamp, would he keep it burning all night?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, he would keep it burning all night." "But great king, is the flame in the first watch of the night the same as the flame in the middle watch?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Is the flame in the middle watch of the night the same as the flame in the last watch?" "No, Venerable Sir." "But great king, was it one lamp in the first watch, another lamp in the middle watch, another lamp in the last watch?" "No, Venerable Sir, it burned all night in dependence on that same one." "Even so, great king, the continuity of states flows on; one arises, another ceases, it flows on without break as if they were simultaneous, therefore it is neither that same one nor another, the later consciousness is connected with the earlier consciousness."

"Make another simile." "Just as, great king, milk when being milked would after some time turn into curd, from curd into fresh butter, from fresh butter into ghee, if someone, great king, should say thus 'The milk is exactly the same as the curd, the curd is exactly the same as the fresh butter, the fresh butter is exactly the same as the ghee', would he, great king, be speaking correctly?" "No, Venerable Sir, it has arisen in dependence on that same one." "Even so, great king, the continuity of states flows on; one arises, another ceases, it flows on without break as if they were simultaneous, therefore it is neither that same one nor another, the later consciousness is connected with the earlier consciousness."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The First Question about the Continuity of States.

2.

Question about Relinking

2. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, does one who does not relink know 'I will not relink'?" "Yes, great king, one who does not relink knows 'I will not relink'." "How, Venerable Sir, does one know?" "Great king, through the cessation of whatever cause, whatever condition there is for relinking, one knows 'I will not relink'."

"Make a simile." "Just as, great king, a farmer householder having ploughed and sown would fill his granary. At a later time he would neither plough nor sow, but would use or distribute the stored grain or do with it according to circumstances. Would that farmer householder know, great king, 'My granary will not be filled'? "Yes, Venerable Sir, he would know." "How would he know?" "Through the cessation of whatever cause, whatever condition there is for filling the granary, he knows 'My granary will not be filled'." "Even so, great king, through the cessation of whatever cause, whatever condition there is for relinking, one knows 'I will not relink'."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

Question about Relinking, Second.

3.

Question About Knowledge and Wisdom

3. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, does one who has knowledge arisen have wisdom arisen?" "Yes, great king, one who has knowledge arisen has wisdom arisen." "Venerable Sir, is that which is knowledge the same as wisdom?" "Yes, great king, that which is knowledge is the same as wisdom." "But Venerable Sir, for one who has that same knowledge which is the same as wisdom arisen, would they be deluded or not deluded?" "Great king, in some cases they would be deluded, in some cases they would not be deluded." "Venerable Sir, where would they be deluded?" "Great king, they would be deluded regarding crafts not known before, or a direction not gone to before, or a description not heard before." "Where would they not be deluded?" "Great king, wherever through that wisdom something has been known as 'impermanent' or 'suffering' or 'non-self', there they would not be deluded." "Venerable Sir, where does their delusion go?" "Great king, delusion ceases right there when knowledge has arisen."

"Make a simile." "Just as, great king, if some person were to bring a lamp into a dark house, then the darkness would cease and light would manifest. Even so, great king, when knowledge has arisen, delusion ceases right there."

"But Venerable Sir, where does wisdom go?" "Great king, wisdom too ceases right there after doing its task, but what has been known through that wisdom as 'impermanent' or 'suffering' or 'non-self', that does not cease."

"Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'wisdom ceases right there after doing its task, but what has been known through that wisdom as 'impermanent' or 'suffering' or 'non-self', that does not cease', make a simile for that." "Great king, suppose any person wanting to send a letter at night would summon a scribe, light a lamp, and have the letter written. When the letter is written, he would extinguish the lamp, but even when the lamp is extinguished, the letter would not be destroyed. Even so, great king, wisdom ceases right there after doing its task, but what has been known through that wisdom as 'impermanent' or 'suffering' or 'non-self', that does not cease."

"Make another simile." "Just as, great king, in the eastern provinces people place five water pots at each house to extinguish fires, when a house catches fire they throw those five water pots over the house, then the fire is extinguished. But great king, do those people think 'We will use those pots again for the work of pots'?" "No, Venerable Sir, those pots are finished with, what use are those pots?" "Just as the five water pots, so should the five faculties be seen: the faculty of faith, the faculty of energy, the faculty of mindfulness, the faculty of concentration, the faculty of wisdom. Just as those people, so should the spiritual practitioner be seen. Just as the fire, so should the defilements be seen. Just as the fire is extinguished by the five water pots, so the defilements are extinguished by the five faculties, and once extinguished the defilements do not arise again. Even so, great king, wisdom ceases right there after doing its task, but what has been known through that wisdom as 'impermanent' or 'suffering' or 'non-self', that does not cease."

"Make another simile." "Just as, great king, a doctor taking five medicinal roots, approaching a sick person, having ground those five medicinal roots would make the sick person drink them, and by them the illnesses would be expelled. But great king, does that doctor think 'I will use those five medicinal roots again for the work of medicine'?" "No, Venerable Sir, those five medicinal roots are finished with, what use are those five medicinal roots?" "Just as the five medicinal roots, so should the five faculties be seen: the faculty of faith, the faculty of energy, the faculty of mindfulness, the faculty of concentration, the faculty of wisdom; just as the doctor, so should the spiritual practitioner be seen. Just as the disease, so should the defilements be seen. Just as the sick person, so should the worldling be seen. Just as when the sick person's illnesses are expelled by the five medicinal roots, when the illnesses are expelled the sick person becomes healthy, so the defilements are expelled by the five faculties, and once expelled the defilements do not arise again. Even so, great king, wisdom ceases right there after doing its task, but what has been known through that wisdom as 'impermanent' or 'suffering' or 'non-self', that does not cease."

"Make another simile." "Just as, great king, a warrior entering battle would take five arrows and go down to battle to conquer the opposing army, having gone to battle he would shoot those five arrows, and by them the opposing army would be broken - but great king, does that warrior think 'I will use those arrows again for the work of arrows'?" "No, Venerable Sir, those arrows are finished with, what use are those arrows?" "Just as the five arrows, so should the five faculties be seen: the faculty of faith, the faculty of energy, the faculty of mindfulness, the faculty of concentration, the faculty of wisdom. Just as the warrior entering battle, so should the spiritual practitioner be seen. Just as the opposing army, so should the defilements be seen. Just as the opposing army is broken by the five arrows, so the defilements are broken by the five faculties, and once broken the defilements do not arise again. Even so, great king, wisdom ceases right there after doing its task, but what has been known through that wisdom as 'impermanent' or 'suffering' or 'non-self', that does not cease."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

Question about Knowledge and Wisdom, the third.

4.

Question About Feeling of a Person who Relinks

4. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, does one who does not relink feel any painful feeling?" The elder said "Some he feels, some he does not feel." "What does he feel, what does he not feel?" "Great king, he feels bodily feeling, he does not feel mental feeling." "Venerable Sir, how does he feel bodily feeling, how does he not feel mental feeling?" "Through the non-cessation of whatever cause, whatever condition there is for the arising of bodily painful feeling, he feels bodily painful feeling; through the cessation of whatever cause, whatever condition there is for the arising of mental painful feeling, he does not feel mental painful feeling. This too was spoken by the Blessed One - 'He feels one feeling, bodily not mental'."

"Venerable Nāgasena, when one feels painful feeling, why does he not attain final Nibbāna?" "There is not, great king, inclination or aversion in an Arahant, and the Arahants, being wise, do not cause the unripe to fall but await its ripening. This too was said, great king, by the elder Sāriputta, the general of the Teaching -

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

Question about Feeling of a Person who Relinks, fourth.

5.

Question About Feeling

5. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, is pleasant feeling wholesome, unwholesome, or undeclared?" "It may be, great king, wholesome, unwholesome, or undeclared." "If, Venerable Sir, it is wholesome it is not painful, if painful it is not wholesome, wholesome and painful do not arise together." "What do you think, great king, if a hot iron ball were placed in one hand of a person, and a cold lump of snow were placed in the other hand, would both burn him?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, both would burn him." "But great king, are both hot?" "No, Venerable Sir." "But great king, are both cold?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Know the refutation: if hot burns, yet both are not hot, therefore it does not follow. If cold burns, yet both are not cold, therefore it does not follow. But why, great king, do both burn, yet both are not hot, and both are not cold? One is hot, one is cold, both burn, therefore it does not follow." "I am not capable of conversing with a skilled speaker like you. Please explain the meaning." Then the elder convinced King Milinda with talk connected with the Abhidhamma:

"There are these six kinds of joy based on the household life, six kinds of joy based on renunciation, six kinds of displeasure based on the household life, six kinds of displeasure based on renunciation, six kinds of equanimity based on the household life, six kinds of equanimity based on renunciation - these are the six sets of six. Feelings of the past are thirty-six fold, feelings of the future are thirty-six fold, feelings of the present are thirty-six fold. Having collected and combined all these together, there are one hundred and eight feelings."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The fifth question about feeling.

6.

Question About Unity and Diversity of Name-and-form

6. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, who relinks?" The Elder said "Name-and-form relinks, great king." "Does this same name-and-form relink?" "No, great king, this same name-and-form does not relink. But, great king, with this name-and-form one performs action, either good or evil, and through that action another name-and-form relinks." "If, Venerable Sir, this same name-and-form does not relink, would one not then be released from evil actions?" The Elder said "If one would not relink, one would be released from evil actions. But, great king, because one does relink, therefore one is not released from evil actions."

"Make a simile." "Just as, great king, if some person were to steal a mango from another person, and the owner of the mango having caught him would show him to the king saying 'Your majesty, this person has stolen my mangoes', he would say thus 'Your majesty, I did not steal this person's mangoes, those mangoes which he planted are different, those mangoes which I stole are different, I am not deserving of punishment.'" "Would that person, great king, be deserving of punishment?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, he would be deserving of punishment." "For what reason?" "Although he might say that, Venerable Sir, without disowning the earlier mango, because of the later mango that person would be deserving of punishment." "Even so, great king, with this name-and-form one performs action, either good or evil, and through that action another name-and-form relinks, therefore one is not released from evil actions."

"Make another simile." "Just as, great king, if some person were to steal rice from another person... etc... were to steal sugar cane... etc... just as, great king, if some person were to light a fire in winter, warm himself and leave without extinguishing it, then that fire would burn another person's field, and the owner of the field having caught him would show him to the king saying 'Your majesty, this person has burnt my field.' He would say thus 'Your majesty, I did not burn this person's field, that fire which I did not extinguish is different, that fire which burnt his field is different, I am not deserving of punishment.' "Would that person, great king, be deserving of punishment?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, he would be deserving of punishment." "For what reason?" "Although he might say that, Venerable Sir, without disowning the earlier fire, because of the later fire that person would be deserving of punishment." "Even so, great king, with this name-and-form one performs action, either good or evil, and through that action another name-and-form relinks, therefore one is not released from evil actions."

"Make another simile." "Just as, great king, if some person were to take a lamp, climb up a mansion and eat, and while burning the lamp would burn the grass, and while the grass was burning would burn the house, and while the house was burning would burn the village, and the villagers having caught that person would say thus 'Why, good sir, did you burn the village?', he would say thus 'Good sirs, I did not burn the village, that lamp-fire by whose light I ate is different, that fire by which the village was burnt is different', and they disputing would come into your presence, whose case would you uphold, great king?" "The villagers', Venerable Sir." "For what reason?" "Although he might say that, still that fire originated from that very one." "Even so, great king, although the name-and-form at death is different, the name-and-form at relinking is different, still it originated from that very one, therefore one is not released from evil actions."

"Make another simile." "Just as, great king, if some person were to betroth a young girl, pay the bride price and depart. After some time she would become a grown woman of marriageable age, then another person having paid the bride price would marry her, and the former would come and say thus 'Why, good sir, did you take away my wife?' He would say thus 'I did not take your wife, that young tender girl who was betrothed to you and for whom you paid the bride price is different, this grown woman of marriageable age who was betrothed to me and for whom I paid the bride price is different', and they disputing would come into your presence. Whose case would you uphold, great king?" "The former one's, Venerable Sir." "For what reason?" "Although he might say that, still she grew up from that very one." "Even so, great king, although the name-and-form at death is different, the name-and-form at relinking is different, still it originated from that very one, therefore one is not released from evil actions."

"Make another simile." "Just as, great king, if some person were to buy a pot of milk from a cowherd, leave it in his hands and depart saying 'I will come and take it tomorrow', and the next day it would turn into curd. He would come and say thus 'Give me the pot of milk.' He would show him the curd. The other would say thus 'I did not buy curd from your hands, give me the pot of milk.' He would say thus 'Without your knowing, the milk has turned into curd.' They disputing would come into your presence, whose case would you uphold, great king?" "The cowherd's, Venerable Sir." "For what reason?" "Although he might say that, still it originated from that very one." "Even so, great king, although the name-and-form at death is different, the name-and-form at relinking is different, still it originated from that very one, therefore one is not released from evil actions."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The sixth question about unity and diversity of name-and-form.

7.

Question About an Elder's Relinking and Non-relinking

7. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, will you relink?" "Enough, great king, what is the use of that question, have I not already explained 'If, great king, I will have clinging, I will relink, if I will be without clinging, I will not relink'?"

"Make a simile." "Just as, great king, if some person were to do service for the king. The king being pleased would give him a reward, and by that reward he might live endowed and furnished with the five cords of sensual pleasure, if he were to tell people 'The king does not reward me at all.' Would that person, great king, be acting properly?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Even so, great king, what is the use of that question, have I not already explained 'If I will have clinging, I will relink, if I will be without clinging, I will not relink'?"

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The seventh question about an elder's relinking and non-relinking.

8.

Question About Name-and-form Relinking

8. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'name-and-form', therein what is name, what is form?" "Therein what is gross, great king, that is form; what are subtle mental states and mental factors therein, that is name." "Venerable Nāgasena, for what reason does not name alone relink, or form alone?" "These things are mutually dependent, great king, they arise together."

"Make a simile." "Just as, great king, if there were no embryo of a hen, there would be no egg, and whatever embryo and whatever egg there is, both are dependent on each other, their arising occurs together. Even so, great king, if there were no name, there would be no form, and whatever name and whatever form there is, both are dependent on each other, their arising occurs together. Thus they have run on for a long stretch of time."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The eighth question about name-and-form relinking.

9.

Question About Time

9. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'a long stretch of time', what is this called time?" "The past time, great king, the future time, the present time." "But, Venerable Sir, do all times exist?" "Some time, great king, exists, some does not exist." "But which, Venerable Sir, exists, which does not exist?" "Those formations, great king, that are past, gone, ceased, changed, that time does not exist; those states that are results, and those states subject to results, and those that give relinking elsewhere, that time exists. Those beings who have died and arisen elsewhere, that time exists. Those beings who have died and not arisen elsewhere, that time does not exist. And those beings who have attained final Nibbāna, that time does not exist because of their having attained final Nibbāna."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

Question about Time, the ninth.

The Chapter on the Course, the second.

In this chapter there are nine questions.

3.

The Chapter on Examination

1.

Question About the Root of the Course

1. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, what is the root of the past time, what is the root of the future time, what is the root of the present time?" "Of the past time, great king, and of the future time, and of the present time, ignorance is the root. With ignorance as condition, formations; with formations as condition, consciousness; with consciousness as condition, name-and-form; with name-and-form as condition, the six sense bases; with the six sense bases as condition, contact; with contact as condition, feeling; with feeling as condition, craving; with craving as condition, clinging; with clinging as condition, existence; with existence as condition, birth; with birth as condition, aging and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, displeasure, and despair come to be. Thus the first point of this entire mass of suffering's time is not discerned."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

Question about the Root of the Course, First.

2.

Question About the First Point

2. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'the first point is not discerned', make a simile for that." "Just as, great king, a person would put a small seed in the earth, and from that a sprout would arise and gradually attain growth, increase and expansion, and would give fruit. Then taking that seed would plant it again, and from that too a sprout would arise and gradually attain growth, increase and expansion, and would give fruit. Is there an end to this continuity?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Even so, great king, the first point of time is not discerned."

"Make another simile." "Just as, great king, there would be an egg from a hen, from the egg a hen, from the hen an egg." Is there an end to this continuity?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Even so, great king, the first point of time is not discerned."

"Make another simile." The Elder drew a wheel on the ground and said this to King Milinda: "Is there, great king, an end to this wheel?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Even so, great king, these wheels were spoken of by the Blessed One: 'Dependent on the eye and forms, eye-consciousness arises; the meeting of the three is contact; with contact as condition, feeling; with feeling as condition, craving; with craving as condition, clinging; with clinging as condition, action; from action, the eye is born again.' Is there an end to this continuity?" "No, Venerable Sir."

"Dependent on the ear and sounds... etc... dependent on the mind and mind-objects, mind-consciousness arises; the meeting of the three is contact; with contact as condition, feeling; with feeling as condition, craving; with craving as condition, clinging; with clinging as condition, action; from action, the mind is born again.' Is there an end to this continuity?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Even so, great king, the first point of time is not discerned."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

Question about the First Point, Second.

3.

Question About Discerning the First Point

3. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'the first point is not discerned', what is that first point?" "Great king, that which is the past time, that is the first point." "Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'the first point is not discerned', but is every first point not discerned?" "Some, great king, are discerned, some are not discerned." "Which, Venerable Sir, are discerned, which are not discerned?" "Great king, that before this there was absolutely no ignorance at all - this first point is not discerned; that which not having been comes to be, having been disappears - this first point is discerned."

"Venerable Nāgasena, that which not having been comes to be, having been disappears, does that not come to be cut off at both ends?" "If, great king, it comes to be cut off at both ends, can what is cut off at both ends grow?" "Yes, that too can grow." "I am not asking that, Venerable Sir - can it grow from the end?" "Yes, it can grow."

"Make a simile." The elder made a simile of a tree for him, and the aggregates are the seeds of the entire mass of suffering."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

Third Question about Discerning the First Point.

4.

Question About Formations that Arise

4. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, are there any formations that arise?" "Yes, great king, there are formations that arise." "Which are they, Venerable Sir?" "Great king, when there is eye and forms, eye-consciousness arises; when there is eye-consciousness, eye-contact arises; when there is eye-contact, feeling arises; when there is feeling, craving arises; when there is craving, clinging arises; when there is clinging, existence arises; when there is existence, birth arises; when there is birth, aging and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, displeasure, and despair come to be. Such is the origin of this entire mass of suffering. Great king, when there is no eye and no forms, eye-consciousness does not arise; when there is no eye-consciousness, eye-contact does not arise; when there is no eye-contact, feeling does not arise; when there is no feeling, craving does not arise; when there is no craving, clinging does not arise; when there is no clinging, existence does not arise; when there is no existence, birth does not arise; when there is no birth, aging and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, displeasure, and despair do not come to be. Such is the cessation of this entire mass of suffering."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

Question about Formations that Arise, fourth.

5.

Question About Formations that Arise While Existing

5. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, are there any formations that arise while not existing?" "There are no formations, great king, that arise while not existing. Only formations that exist, great king, arise."

"Make a simile." "What do you think, great king, did this house where you are seated arise while not existing?" "Nothing here, Venerable Sir, arose while not existing, only what existed arose. These timbers, Venerable Sir, were in the forest, and this clay was in the earth, and through the appropriate effort of women and men this house came to be." "Even so, great king, there are no formations that arise while not existing, only formations that exist arise."

"Make another simile." "Just as, great king, whatever seed-life and plant-life placed in the earth, gradually attaining growth, increase and expansion, would give flowers and fruits, those trees did not arise while not existing, those trees arose while existing. Even so, great king, there are no formations that arise while not existing, only formations that exist arise."

"Make another simile." "Just as, great king, a potter extracts clay from the earth and makes various vessels, those vessels did not arise while not existing, they arose while existing. Even so, great king, there are no formations that arise while not existing, only formations that exist arise."

"Make another simile." "Just as, great king, if there were no board of a lute, no skin, no body, no neck, no bridge, no strings, no plectrum, and no appropriate effort of a person, would sound arise?" "No, Venerable Sir." "But when, great king, there is a board of a lute, there is skin, there is a body, there is a neck, there is a bridge, there are strings, there is a plectrum, and there is appropriate effort of a person, would sound arise?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, it would arise." "Even so, great king, there are no formations that arise while not existing, only formations that exist arise."

"Make another simile." "Just as, great king, if there were no lower fire-stick, no fire-stick holder, no fire-stick string, no upper fire-stick, no cloth, and no appropriate effort of a person, would that fire arise?" "No, Venerable Sir." "But when, great king, there is a lower fire-stick, there is a fire-stick holder, there is a fire-stick string, there is an upper fire-stick, there is a cloth, and there is appropriate effort of a person, would that fire arise?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, it would arise." "Even so, great king, there are no formations that arise while not existing, only formations that exist arise."

"Make another simile." "Just as, great king, if there were no gem, no sunlight, no cow dung, would that fire arise?" "No, Venerable Sir." "But when, great king, there is a gem, there is sunlight, there is cow dung, would that fire arise?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, it would arise." "Even so, great king, there are no formations that arise while not existing, only formations that exist arise."

"Make another simile." "Just as, great king, if there were no mirror, no light, no face, would a reflection arise?" "No, Venerable Sir." "But when, great king, there is a mirror, there is light, there is a face, would a reflection arise?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, it would arise." "Even so, great king, there are no formations that arise while not existing, only formations that exist arise."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question about Formations that Arise while Existing, the fifth.

6.

Question About One who has Mastered the Ancient Indian Scriptures

6. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, is one who has mastered the ancient Indian scriptures found?" "But who, great king, is this called one who has mastered the ancient Indian scriptures?" "Venerable Sir, the soul inside that sees forms with the eye, hears sounds with the ear, smells odours with the nose, tastes flavours with the tongue, touches tactile objects with the body, cognizes mind-objects with the mind, just as we, sitting in this palace, through whichever window we wish to look, through that window we would look, we would look through the eastern window, we would look through the western window, we would look through the northern window, we would look through the southern window. Even so, Venerable Sir, this soul inside through whichever door it wishes to see, through that door it sees."

The elder said "Great king, I will speak about the five doors, listen to that, attend carefully to it. If a soul inside sees forms with the eye, just as we, sitting in this palace, through whichever window we wish to look, through that window we would see only forms, through the eastern window we would see only forms, through the western window we would see only forms, through the northern window we would see only forms, through the southern window we would see only forms, even so with that soul inside through the ear too only forms should be seen, through the nose too only forms should be seen, through the tongue too only forms should be seen, through the body too only forms should be seen, through the mind too only forms should be seen; through the eye too only sound should be heard, through the nose too only sound should be heard, through the tongue too only sound should be heard, through the body too only sound should be heard, through the mind too only sound should be heard; through the eye too only odour should be smelled, through the ear too only odour should be smelled, through the tongue too only odour should be smelled, through the body too only odour should be smelled, through the mind too only odour should be smelled; through the eye too only taste should be tasted, through the ear too only taste should be tasted, through the nose too only taste should be tasted, through the body too only taste should be tasted, through the mind too only taste should be tasted; through the eye too only tactile object should be touched, through the ear too only tactile object should be touched, through the nose too only tactile object should be touched, through the tongue too only tactile object should be touched, through the mind too only tactile object should be touched; through the eye too only mental phenomena should be cognized, through the ear too only mental phenomena should be cognized, through the nose too only mental phenomena should be cognized, through the tongue too only mental phenomena should be cognized, through the body too only mental phenomena should be cognized?" "No, Venerable Sir."

"Great king, your earlier statement does not agree with your later one, nor your later statement with your earlier one. Moreover, great king, just as we, sitting in this palace, when these latticed windows are opened, through the great space we see forms much better looking outwards, even so with that soul inside when the eye-doors are opened through the great space forms should be seen much better, when the ears are opened...etc... when the nose is opened...etc... when the tongue is opened...etc... when the body is opened through the great space sound should be heard much better, odour should be smelled, taste should be tasted, tactile object should be touched?" "No, Venerable Sir."

"Great king, your earlier statement does not agree with your later one, nor your later statement with your earlier one. Moreover, great king, if this Dinna would go out and stand in the gateway, would you know, great king, 'this Dinna has gone out and is standing in the gateway'?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, I know." "Moreover, great king, if this Dinna would enter inside and stand before you, would you know, great king, 'this Dinna has entered inside and is standing before me'?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, I know." "Even so, great king, would that soul inside know when tastes are placed on the tongue whether they are sour or salty or bitter or pungent or astringent or sweet?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, he would know." "Would he know when those tastes have entered inside whether they are sour or salty or bitter or pungent or astringent or sweet?" "No, Venerable Sir."

"Great king, your earlier statement does not agree with your later one, nor your later statement with your earlier one. Just as, great king, if some person were to have a hundred pots of honey brought, have a trough filled with honey, close a person's mouth and put him in the honey trough, would that person, great king, know whether the honey is good or not good?" "No, Venerable Sir." "For what reason?" "Because, Venerable Sir, honey did not enter his mouth."

"Great king, your earlier statement does not agree with your later one, nor your later statement with your earlier one." "I am not capable of conversing with a skilled speaker like you; please, Venerable Sir, explain the meaning."

The elder convinced King Milinda with talk connected with the Abhidhamma: "Here, great king, dependent on the eye and forms, eye-consciousness arises, and together with it arise contact, feeling, perception, volition, one-pointedness, the life faculty, and attention - thus these states arise from conditions, no master of the ancient Indian scriptures is found here, dependent on the ear and sounds... etc... dependent on the mind and mind-objects, mind-consciousness arises, and together with it arise contact, feeling, perception, volition, one-pointedness, the life faculty, and attention - thus these states arise from conditions, no master of the ancient Indian scriptures is found here."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Sixth Question about One who has Mastered the Ancient Indian Scriptures.

7.

Question About Eye-consciousness and So Forth

7. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, where eye-consciousness arises, does mind-consciousness arise there too?" "Yes, great king, where eye-consciousness arises, mind-consciousness arises there too."

"But Venerable Nāgasena, does eye-consciousness arise first and mind-consciousness afterwards, or does mind-consciousness arise first and eye-consciousness afterwards?" "First, great king, eye-consciousness arises, afterwards mind-consciousness."

"But Venerable Nāgasena, does eye-consciousness command mind-consciousness 'Where I arise, you too arise there', or does mind-consciousness command eye-consciousness 'Where you will arise, I too will arise there'?" "No, great king, they do not lack conversation with one another."

"How, Venerable Nāgasena, where eye-consciousness arises, does mind-consciousness arise there too?" "Great king, because of slanting towards, because of being a door, because of habit, and because of practice."

"Venerable Nāgasena, how does mind-consciousness arise where eye-consciousness arises because of slanting towards? "Make a simile." "What do you think, great king, when it rains, where would the water go?" "Venerable Sir, it would go where there is a slope." "Then at another time when it rains, where would that water go?" "Venerable Sir, it too would go where the previous water went."

"But great king, does the previous water command the later water 'where I go, you too must go', or does the later water command the previous water 'where you will go, I too will go'?" "No, Venerable Sir, they do not lack conversation with one another, they go because of slanting towards." "Even so, great king, because of slanting towards, where eye-consciousness arises, mind-consciousness arises there too; eye-consciousness does not command mind-consciousness 'Where I arise, you too arise there', nor does mind-consciousness command eye-consciousness 'Where you will arise, I too will arise there'; they do not lack conversation with one another, they arise because of slanting towards."

"How, Venerable Nāgasena, because of being a door, where eye-consciousness arises, does mind-consciousness arise there too? "Make a request." "What do you think, great king, suppose there was a king's frontier town with strong ramparts and gates but with only one gate, and a person wanted to leave, by which way would he leave?" "By the gate, Venerable Sir, he would leave." "Then if another person wanted to leave, by which way would he leave?" "By the same way the first person left, Venerable Sir, he too would leave."

"But great king, does the first person command the second person 'where I go, you too must go', or does the second person command the first person 'where you will go, I too will go'?" "No, Venerable Sir, they do not lack conversation with one another, they go because of being a door." "Even so, great king, because of being a door, where eye-consciousness arises, mind-consciousness arises there too; eye-consciousness does not command mind-consciousness 'Where I arise, you too arise there', nor does mind-consciousness command eye-consciousness 'Where you will arise, I too will arise there'; they do not lack conversation with one another, they arise because of being a door."

"How, Venerable Nāgasena, because of being habitual, where eye-consciousness arises, does mind-consciousness arise there too? Make a simile." "What do you think, great king, if first one cart would go, then by which way would a second cart go?" "Venerable Sir, it too would go where the first cart went."

"But great king, does the first cart command the second cart 'where I go, you too must go', or does the second cart command the first cart 'where you will go, I too will go'?" "No, Venerable Sir, they do not lack conversation with one another, they go because of being habitual." "Even so, great king, because of being habitual, where eye-consciousness arises, mind-consciousness arises there too; eye-consciousness does not command mind-consciousness 'Where I arise, you too arise there', nor does mind-consciousness command eye-consciousness 'Where you will arise, I too will arise there'; they do not lack conversation with one another, they arise because of being habitual."

"How, Venerable Nāgasena, because of being customary, where eye-consciousness arises, does mind-consciousness arise there too? "Make a simile." "Just as, great king, for a beginner in the arts of counting, calculating, reckoning and writing there is slowness, but after some time, because of being customary through careful practice, there is no slowness. Even so, great king, because of being customary, where eye-consciousness arises, mind-consciousness arises there too; eye-consciousness does not command mind-consciousness 'Where I arise, you too arise there', nor does mind-consciousness command eye-consciousness 'Where you will arise, I too will arise there'; they do not lack conversation with one another, they arise because of being customary."

"Venerable Nāgasena, where ear-consciousness arises, does mind-consciousness arise there too?... etc... where nose-consciousness arises...etc... where tongue-consciousness arises...etc... where body-consciousness arises, does mind-consciousness arise there too?" "Yes, great king, where body-consciousness arises, mind-consciousness arises there too."

"But Venerable Nāgasena, does body-consciousness arise first and mind-consciousness afterwards, or does mind-consciousness arise first and body-consciousness afterwards?" "First, great king, body-consciousness arises, afterwards mind-consciousness."

"But Venerable Nāgasena,...etc... they do not lack conversation with one another, they arise because of being customary."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Seventh Question about Eye-consciousness and So Forth.

8.

Question About the Characteristic of Contact

8. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, where mind-consciousness arises, do contact and feeling arise there too?" "Yes, great king, where mind-consciousness arises, contact arises there, feeling arises there, perception arises there, volition arises there, thought arises there, examination arises there, and all states headed by contact arise there."

"Venerable Nāgasena, what is the characteristic of contact?" "Contact, great king, is characterized by touching."

"Make a simile." "Just as, great king, two rams would fight, of these as is one ram, so should the eye be seen, as is the second ram, so should form be seen. As is their meeting, so should contact be seen."

"Make another simile." "Just as, great king, two hands would clap, of these as is one hand, so should the eye be seen. As is the second hand, so should form be seen. As is their meeting, so should contact be seen."

"Make another simile." "Just as, great king, two cymbals would clash, of these as is one cymbal, so should the eye be seen. As is the second cymbal, so should form be seen. As is their meeting, so should contact be seen."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Eighth Question about the Characteristic of Contact.

9.

Question About the Characteristic of Feeling

9. "Venerable Nāgasena, what is the characteristic of feeling?" "Feeling, great king, is characterized by being felt and by being experienced."

"Make a simile." "Just as, great king, if some person were to do service for the king, and the king being pleased would give him a reward, and by that reward he might live endowed and furnished with the five cords of sensual pleasure, and he would think thus 'I previously did service for the king, and the king being pleased gave me a reward, and now because of that I experience this kind of feeling.'

"Or just as, great king, if some person having done a wholesome action, with the breaking up of the body, after death, would be reborn in a good destination, in a heavenly world, and there he might live endowed and furnished with the five divine cords of sensual pleasure, and he would think thus 'I previously did a wholesome action, and because of that I experience this kind of feeling.' This, great king, is how feeling is characterized by being felt and by being experienced."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Ninth Question about the Characteristic of Feeling.

10.

Question About the Characteristic of Perception

10. "Venerable Nāgasena, what is the characteristic of perception?" "Great king, perception is characterized by perceiving. What does it perceive? It perceives blue, it perceives yellow, it perceives red, it perceives white, it perceives crimson. This, great king, is how perception is characterized by perceiving."

"Make a simile." "Just as, great king, when the king's treasurer enters the treasury and sees the royal objects of enjoyment - blue, yellow, red, white and crimson forms - he perceives them. This, great king, is how perception is characterized by perceiving."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Tenth Question about the Characteristic of Perception.

11.

Question About the Characteristic of Volition

11. "Venerable Nāgasena, what is the characteristic of volition?" "Great king, volition has the characteristic of willing and the characteristic of volitional formation."

"Make a simile." "Just as, great king, if some person were to prepare poison and drink it himself and give it to others to drink, he would be afflicted and others would be afflicted. Even so, great king, someone here having intended an unwholesome action with volition, with the breaking up of the body, after death, would be reborn in a plane of misery, a bad destination, a lower realm, in hell. And those who follow his example, they too with the breaking up of the body, after death, are reborn in a plane of misery, a bad destination, a lower realm, in hell.

"Moreover, great king, if some person were to prepare together ghee, butter, oil, honey and molasses, and drink it himself and give it to others to drink, he would be happy and others would be happy. Even so, great king, someone here having intended a wholesome action with volition, with the breaking up of the body, after death, is reborn in a good destination, in a heavenly world. And those who follow his example, they too with the breaking up of the body, after death, are reborn in a good destination, in a heavenly world. This, great king, is how volition has the characteristic of willing and the characteristic of volitional formation."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

Question about the Characteristic of Volition, the eleventh.

12.

Question About the Characteristic of Consciousness

12. "Venerable Nāgasena, what is the characteristic of consciousness?" "Great king, consciousness has cognizing as its characteristic."

"Make a simile." "Just as, great king, a city guard sitting at a crossroads in the middle of the city would see a person coming from the eastern direction, would see a person coming from the southern direction, would see a person coming from the western direction, would see a person coming from the northern direction. Even so, great king, whatever form a person sees with the eye, that he cognizes with consciousness. Whatever sound he hears with the ear, that he cognizes with consciousness. Whatever odour he smells with the nose, that he cognizes with consciousness. Whatever flavour he tastes with the tongue, that he cognizes with consciousness. Whatever tactile object he touches with the body, that he cognizes with consciousness, whatever mind-object he cognizes with the mind, that he cognizes with consciousness. This, great king, is how consciousness is characterized by cognizing."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

Question about the Characteristic of Consciousness, the Twelfth.

13.

Question About the Characteristic of Thought

13. "Venerable Nāgasena, what is the characteristic of thought?" "Great king, thought has the characteristic of applying."

"Make a simile." "Just as, great king, a carpenter applies a well-prepared piece of wood to a joint, even so, great king, thought has the characteristic of applying."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

Question about the Characteristic of Thought is the thirteenth.

14.

Question About the Characteristic of Examination

14. "Venerable Nāgasena, what is the characteristic of examination?" "Examination, great king, has the characteristic of rubbing."

"Make a simile." "Just as, great king, a bronze gong when struck afterwards reverberates and resonates, just as, great king, the striking is, so should thought be seen. Just as the reverberation is, so should examination be seen."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Fourteenth Question about the Characteristic of Examination.

The Third Chapter on Examination.

In this chapter there are fourteen questions.

4.

The Chapter on Nibbāna

1.

Question About Separating Contact and So Forth

1. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, is it possible, when these states have come together as one, to separate them out and establish their difference as 'this is contact, this is feeling, this is perception, this is volition, this is consciousness, this is thought, this is examination'?" "It is not possible, great king, when these states have come together as one, to separate them out and establish their difference as 'this is contact, this is feeling, this is perception, this is volition, this is consciousness, this is thought, this is examination'."

"Make a simile." "Just as, great king, a king's cook would make something tasteless or tasty, and he would put in curd, and he would put in salt, and he would put in ginger, and he would put in cumin, and he would put in pepper, and he would put in other ingredients, and the king would say to him thus: 'Bring me the taste of curd, bring me the taste of salt, bring me the taste of ginger, bring me the taste of cumin, bring me the taste of pepper, bring me the taste of all that has been put in.' But great king, is it possible, when these tastes have come together as one, to separate them out and bring the taste as sour or salty or bitter or pungent or astringent or sweet?" "No, Venerable Sir, it is not possible, when these tastes have come together as one, to separate them out and bring the taste as sour or salty or bitter or pungent or astringent or sweet, but they are present each with its own characteristic." "Even so, great king, it is not possible, when these states have come together as one, to separate them out and establish their difference as 'this is contact, this is feeling, this is perception, this is volition, this is consciousness, this is thought, this is examination', but they are present each with its own characteristic."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The First Question about Separating Contact and So Forth.

2.

Question to Nāgasena

2. The elder said "Salt, great king, is cognizable by the eye." "Yes, Venerable Sir, cognizable by the eye." "Know this well, great king." "But, Venerable Sir, is it cognizable by the tongue?" "Yes, great king, cognizable by the tongue." "But, Venerable Sir, does one cognize all salt with the tongue?" "Yes, great king, one cognizes all salt with the tongue."

"If, Venerable Sir, one cognizes all salt with the tongue, then why do they bring it with carts and oxen, should not just salt be brought?" "It is not possible, great king, to bring only salt when these states have come together as one, for they have different ranges - salt and heaviness." "Is it possible, great king, to weigh salt with a balance?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, it is possible." "It is not possible, great king, to weigh salt with a balance; it is the heaviness that is weighed with the balance."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

Second Question to Nāgasena.

3.

Question About Actions Producing Five Bases

3. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, these five sense bases, are they produced by different actions, or by one action?" "They are produced by different actions, great king, not by one action."

"Make a simile." "What do you think, great king, if different seeds were sown in one field, would different fruits arise from those different seeds?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, they would arise." Even so, great king, whatever five sense bases there are, they are produced by different actions, not by one action."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Third Question About Actions Producing Five Bases.

4.

Question About the Difference of Actions

4. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, for what reason are human beings not all equal, some having short life span, some having long life span, some having many afflictions, some having few afflictions, some being ugly, some being beautiful, some being uninfluential, some being influential, some having few possessions, some having great possessions, some being from low families, some being from great families, some being unwise, some being wise?"

The elder said "But why, great king, are trees not all equal, some being sour, some being salty, some being bitter, some being pungent, some being astringent, some being sweet?" "I think, Venerable Sir, due to the difference of seeds." "Even so, great king, due to the difference of actions human beings are not all equal, some having short life span, some having long life span, some having many afflictions, some having few afflictions, some being ugly, some being beautiful, some being uninfluential, some being influential, some having few possessions, some having great possessions, some being from low families, some being from great families, some being unwise, some being wise. This too was spoken by the Blessed One - 'Young man, beings are owners of their actions, heirs of their actions, born of their actions, bound by their actions, have actions as their refuge. Action divides beings in terms of inferiority and superiority.'"

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

Question About the Difference of Actions, fourth.

5.

Question About Making Effort

5. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'so that this suffering might cease and no other suffering might arise'. Great king, this is the purpose of our going forth." "What is the use of making effort beforehand, shouldn't one make effort when the time has come?" The elder said: "Great king, effort made when the time has come is ineffective, effort made beforehand is effective."

"Make a simile." "What do you think, great king, when you would be thirsty, would you then have a well dug, have a pond dug, thinking 'I will drink water'?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Even so, great king, effort made when the time has come is ineffective, effort made beforehand is effective."

"Make another simile." "What do you think, great king, when you would be hungry, would you then have a field ploughed, have rice planted, have grain brought in, thinking 'I will eat a meal'?" "No, Venerable Sir." Even so, great king, effort made when the time has come is ineffective, effort made beforehand is effective."

"Make another simile." "What do you think, great king, when a battle would be imminent, would you then have a moat dug, have a rampart built, have a gateway built, have a watchtower built, have grain brought in, would you then train in elephant, train in horse, train in chariot, train in bow, train in sword?" "No, Venerable Sir." Even so, great king, effort made when the time has come is ineffective, effort made beforehand is effective. This too was spoken by the Blessed One -

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

Question About Making Effort, the fifth.

6.

The Question About the Heat of the Fire in Hell

6. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'the fire of hell is much more intensely hot than ordinary fire, a small stone thrown into ordinary fire does not dissolve even when burning for a day, but a stone the size of a peaked house thrown into hell fire dissolves in a moment', I do not believe this statement, and you also say 'those beings who are born there, burning in hell for many thousands of years, do not dissolve', I do not believe that statement either."

The elder said "What do you think, great king, do female makara fish, female crocodiles, female turtles, female peacocks and female pigeons eat hard stones and pebbles?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, they eat." "But do those things, when they go into their stomachs and intestines, dissolve?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, they dissolve." "But does the embryo in their wombs also dissolve?" "No, Venerable Sir." "For what reason?" "I think, Venerable Sir, it does not dissolve because it is governed by action." Even so, great king, because they are governed by action, beings in hell do not dissolve even when burning in hell for many thousands of years. This too was spoken by the Blessed One - 'but he does not die until that evil action is exhausted.'"

"Make another simile." "What do you think, great king, do female lions, female tigers, female leopards and female dogs eat hard bones and meat?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, they eat." "But do those things, when they go into their stomachs and intestines, dissolve?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, they dissolve." "But does the embryo in their wombs also dissolve?" "No, Venerable Sir." "For what reason?" "I think, Venerable Sir, it does not dissolve because it is governed by action." "Even so, great king, because they are governed by action, beings in hell do not dissolve even when burning in hell for many thousands of years."

"Make another simile." "What do you think, great king, do those delicate ladies - Greek, noble, brahmin and householder - eat hard snacks and meat?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, they eat." "But do those things, when they go into their stomachs and intestines, dissolve?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, they dissolve." "But does the embryo in their wombs also dissolve?" "No, Venerable Sir." "For what reason?" "I think, Venerable Sir, it does not dissolve because it is governed by action." Even so, great king, because they are governed by action, beings in hell do not dissolve even when burning in hell for many thousands of years. This too was spoken by the Blessed One - "but he does not die until that evil action is exhausted."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question about the Heat of the Fire in Hell is sixth.

7.

The Question About What Supports the Earth

7. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'this great earth is established on water, the water is established on air, the air is established in space', I do not believe this statement either." The elder took water with a water vessel and convinced King Milinda "Just as, great king, this water is supported by air, so too that water is supported by air."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question about What Supports the Earth, the seventh.

8.

The Question About Cessation and Nibbāna

8. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, is cessation Nibbāna?" "Yes, great king, cessation is Nibbāna." "How, Venerable Nāgasena, is cessation Nibbāna?" "Great king, all foolish worldlings delight in, welcome, and hold to the internal and external sense bases, they are swept away by that stream; I say they are not freed from birth, aging, death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, displeasure, and despair; they are not freed from suffering. But, great king, the learned noble disciple does not delight in, does not welcome, does not hold to the internal and external sense bases, as he does not delight in them, does not welcome them, does not hold to them, craving ceases; with the cessation of craving, there is cessation of clinging; with the cessation of clinging, there is cessation of existence; with the cessation of existence, there is cessation of birth; with the cessation of birth, aging and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, displeasure, and despair cease; such is the cessation of this entire mass of suffering. Thus, great king, cessation is Nibbāna."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question about Cessation and Nibbāna is eighth.

9.

The Question About Attaining Nibbāna

9. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, do all attain Nibbāna?" "No, great king, not all attain Nibbāna. But, great king, one who practises rightly directly knows things that should be directly known, fully understands things that should be fully understood, abandons things that should be abandoned, develops things that should be developed, realizes things that should be realized, that one attains Nibbāna."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question about Attaining Nibbāna is the ninth.

10.

The Question About Knowing the Happiness of Nibbāna

10. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, does one who does not attain Nibbāna know 'Nibbāna is happiness'?" "Yes, great king, one who does not attain Nibbāna knows 'Nibbāna is happiness'." "How, Venerable Nāgasena, does one who does not attain it know 'Nibbāna is happiness'?" "What do you think, great king, would those whose hands and feet are not cut off know, great king, 'cutting off hands and feet is painful'?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, they would know." "How would they know?" "Venerable Sir, having heard the sound of lamentation of others whose hands and feet have been cut off, they know 'cutting off hands and feet is painful'." "Even so, great king, having heard the sound of those who have seen Nibbāna, one knows 'Nibbāna is happiness'."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Tenth Question about Knowing the Happiness of Nibbāna.

The Fourth Chapter on Nibbāna.

In this chapter there are ten questions.

5.

The Chapter About the Buddha

1.

The Question About the Existence and Non-existence of the Buddha

1. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, have you seen the Enlightened One?" "No, great king." "Then have your teachers seen the Enlightened One?" "No, great king." "Then, Venerable Nāgasena, there is no Enlightened One." "But great king, have you seen the Ūhā river in the Himalayas?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Then has your father seen the Ūhā river?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Then, great king, there is no Ūhā river." "There is, Venerable Sir, although I have not seen the Ūhā river, and my father has not seen the Ūhā river, still there is the Ūhā river." "Even so, great king, although I have not seen the Blessed One, and my teachers have not seen the Blessed One, still there is the Blessed One."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question about the Existence and Non-existence of the Buddha is First.

2.

The Question About the Unsurpassability of the Buddha

2. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, is the Buddha unsurpassed?" "Yes, great king, the Blessed One is unsurpassed." "How, Venerable Nāgasena, do you know 'the Buddha is unsurpassed' without having seen him before?" "What do you think, great king, would those who have never seen the great ocean before know, great king, 'The great ocean is vast, deep, immeasurable, difficult to fathom, where these five great rivers flow constantly and continuously, that is: the Ganges, Yamuna, Aciravatī, Sarabhū, Mahī, and neither its decrease nor increase is discerned'?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, they would know." "Even so, great king, seeing the great disciples who have attained final Nibbāna, I know 'the Blessed One is unsurpassed'."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question about the Buddha's Unsurpassability, Second.

3.

The Question About Knowing the Buddha's Unsurpassability

3. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, is it possible to know 'the Buddha is unsurpassed'?" "Yes, great king, it is possible to know 'the Blessed One is unsurpassed'." "How, Venerable Nāgasena, is it possible to know 'the Buddha is unsurpassed'?" "Formerly, great king, there was a writing teacher named Tissa, many years have passed since he died, how is he known?" "Through his writing, Venerable Sir." "Even so, great king, one who sees the Teaching sees the Blessed One, for the Teaching, great king, was taught by the Blessed One."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question About Knowing the Buddha's Unsurpassability, the third.

4.

The Question About Seeing the Teaching

4. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, have you seen the Teaching?" "Great king, the disciples must live according to the guidance of the Buddha and the description of the Buddha for as long as life lasts."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Fourth Question About Seeing the Teaching.

5.

Question About Non-transmigrating Relinking

5. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, does one not transmigrate and yet relink?" "Yes, great king, one does not transmigrate and yet relinks." "How, Venerable Nāgasena, does one not transmigrate and yet relink? Make a simile." "Just as, great king, if some person were to light a lamp from a lamp, would that lamp, great king, have transmigrated from the lamp?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Even so, great king, one does not transmigrate and yet relinks."

"Make another simile." "Do you remember, great king, when you were young having learned any verse from a verse teacher?" "Yes, Venerable Sir." "But great king, did that verse transmigrate from the teacher?" "No, Venerable Sir." Even so, great king, one does not transmigrate and yet relinks.

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

Question About Non-transmigrating Relinking, the fifth.

6.

Question About One who has Mastered the Ancient Indian Scriptures

6. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, is one who has mastered the ancient Indian scriptures found?" The Elder said "In the ultimate sense, great king, one who has mastered the ancient Indian scriptures is not found."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Sixth Question about One who has Mastered the Ancient Indian Scriptures.

7.

Question About Transmigration to Another Body

7. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, is there any being who transmigrates from this body to another body?" "No, great king." "If, Venerable Sir, there is no one who transmigrates from this body to another body, would one not then be released from evil actions?" "Yes, great king, if one would not relink, one would be released from evil actions. But, great king, because one does relink, therefore one is not released from evil actions."

"Make a simile." "Just as, great king, if some person were to steal a mango from another person, would he be deserving of punishment?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, he would be deserving of punishment." "But, great king, he did not steal those mangoes which were planted by that person, why would he be deserving of punishment?" "Venerable Sir, those mangoes arose in dependence on those, therefore he would be deserving of punishment." "Even so, great king, with this name-and-form one performs action, either beautiful or unbeautiful, and through that action another name-and-form relinks, therefore one is not released from evil actions."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

Question about Transmigration to Another Body, the Seventh.

8.

Question About the Existence of the Result of Action

8. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, when wholesome or unwholesome action is done with this name-and-form, where do those actions remain?" "Those actions would follow, great king, like an unrepelled shadow." "Is it possible, Venerable Sir, to show those actions 'here or here those actions remain'?" "It is not possible, great king, to show those actions 'here or here those actions remain'."

"Make a simile." "What do you think, great king, of these trees that have not yet produced fruits, is it possible to show their fruits 'here or here those fruits remain'?" "No, Venerable Sir." Even so, great king, when the continuity is unbroken, it is not possible to show those actions 'here or here those actions remain'.

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Eighth Question about the Existence of the Result of Action.

9.

Question About Knowing One Will Arise

9. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, does one who arises know 'I will arise'?" "Yes, great king, one who arises knows 'I will arise'." "Make a simile." "Just as, great king, when a farmer householder having placed seeds in the earth, when it rains properly knows 'grain will be produced'?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, he would know." "Even so, great king, one who arises knows 'I will arise'."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

Question about Knowing One Will Arise is the Ninth.

10.

Question About Showing the Buddha

10. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, does the Buddha exist?" "Yes, great king, the Blessed One exists." "But Venerable Nāgasena, is it possible to show the Buddha 'here or here'?" "The Blessed One, great king, has attained final Nibbāna in the element of Nibbāna without residue remaining, it is not possible to show the Blessed One 'here or here'."

"Make a simile." "What do you think, great king, when a great mass of fire is burning, can that flame which has gone out be shown 'here or here'?" "No, Venerable Sir, that flame has ceased and gone to non-description." Even so, great king, the Blessed One has attained final Nibbāna in the element of Nibbāna without residue remaining, has gone out, it is not possible to show the Blessed One 'here or here', but through the body of Teaching, great king, it is possible to show the Blessed One. For the Teaching, great king, was taught by the Blessed One."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The tenth question about showing the Buddha.

The fifth chapter about the Buddha.

In this chapter there are ten questions.

6.

The Chapter on Mindfulness

1.

Question About Cherishing the Body

1. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, is the body dear to monks?" "No, great king, the body is not dear to monks." "Then why, Venerable Sir, do you cherish and care for it?" "But great king, have you ever been hit by an arrow when going to battle?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, I have." "But great king, is that wound smeared with salve and anointed with oil and wrapped with fine cloth?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, it is smeared with salve and anointed with oil and wrapped with fine cloth." "But great king, is the wound dear to you, that it is smeared with salve and anointed with oil and wrapped with fine cloth?" "No, Venerable Sir, the wound is not dear to me, but it is smeared with salve and anointed with oil and wrapped with fine cloth for the flesh to heal." "Even so, great king, the body is not dear to monks, yet monks maintain the body without being attached to it for the sake of the holy life. Moreover, great king, the body was said to be like a wound by the Blessed One, therefore monks maintain the body like a wound without being attached to it. This too was spoken by the Blessed One -

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The First Question about Cherishing the Body.

2.

Question About the State of Omniscience

2. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, is the Buddha omniscient and all-seeing?" "Yes, great king, the Blessed One is omniscient and all-seeing." "Then why, Venerable Nāgasena, did he lay down the training rules for disciples gradually?" "Is there, great king, any doctor who knows all medicines in this earth?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, there is." "But great king, does that doctor give medicine to a sick person when the time has come, or when the time has not come?" "When the time has come, Venerable Sir, he gives medicine to a sick person, not when the time has not come." "Even so, great king, the Blessed One being omniscient and all-seeing does not lay down training rules for disciples when the time has not come, he lays down training rules for disciples when the time has come, not to be transgressed for life."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

Question about the State of Omniscience, Second.

3.

Question About the Marks of a Great Man

3. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, was the Buddha endowed with the thirty-two marks of a great man, adorned with the eighty minor characteristics, golden-coloured, with skin the colour of gold, with a fathom-wide aura?" "Yes, great king, the Blessed One was endowed with the thirty-two marks of a great man, adorned with the eighty minor characteristics, golden-coloured, with skin the colour of gold, with a fathom-wide aura."

"But Venerable Sir, were his mother and father also endowed with the thirty-two marks of a great man, adorned with the eighty minor characteristics, golden-coloured, with skin the colour of gold, with a fathom-wide aura?" "No, great king, his mother and father were not endowed with the thirty-two marks of a great man, adorned with the eighty minor characteristics, golden-coloured, with skin the colour of gold, with a fathom-wide aura."

"In that case, Venerable Nāgasena, a Buddha endowed with the thirty-two marks of a great man, adorned with the eighty minor characteristics, golden-coloured, with skin the colour of gold, with a fathom-wide aura does not arise, rather a son is either like his mother or from his mother's side, or like his father or from his father's side." The Elder said "But great king, is there any lotus with a hundred petals?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, there is." "And where does it originate?" "It is born in mud and lies in water." "But great king, is the lotus similar to mud in colour or odour or taste?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Then is it similar to water in odour or taste?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Even so, great king, the Blessed One was endowed with the thirty-two marks of a great man, adorned with the eighty minor characteristics, golden-coloured, with skin the colour of gold, with a fathom-wide aura, but his mother and father were not endowed with the thirty-two marks of a great man, adorned with the eighty minor characteristics, golden-coloured, with skin the colour of gold, with a fathom-wide aura."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Third Question about the Marks of a Great Man.

4.

Question About the Holy Life of the Blessed One

4. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, is the Buddha living the holy life?" "Yes, great king, the Blessed One lives the holy life." "Then, Venerable Nāgasena, the Buddha is a pupil of Brahmā?" "Do you have, great king, a chief elephant?" "Yes, Venerable Sir." "But great king, does that elephant sometimes trumpet?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, it does." "Then, great king, is that elephant a pupil of the heron?" "No, Venerable Sir." "But great king, is Brahmā with understanding or without understanding?" "With understanding, Venerable Sir." "Then, great king, Brahmā is a pupil of the Blessed One."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Fourth Question about the Holy Life of the Blessed One.

5.

The Question About the Higher Ordination of the Blessed One

5. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, is higher ordination beautiful?" "Yes, great king, higher ordination is beautiful." "But Venerable Sir, did the Buddha have higher ordination, or not?" "Great king, the Blessed One was ordained at the foot of the Bodhi tree together with omniscient knowledge, the Blessed One did not have higher ordination given by others, as for disciples, great king, the Blessed One lays down training rules not to be transgressed for life."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question about the Higher Ordination of the Blessed One, the fifth.

6.

The Question About Tears as Medicine and Not Medicine

6. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, when one weeps because mother has died, and when one weeps out of devotion to the Teaching, of these two who weep, for whom are tears medicine, for whom are they not medicine?" "Great king, for one the tears are hot with the stains of lust, hatred and delusion, for one they are cool without stain through rapture and joy. Great king, what is cool, that is medicine, what is hot, that is not medicine."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question about Tears as Medicine and Not Medicine, the sixth.

7.

The Question About the Difference between One with Lust and One Without Lust

7. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, what is the difference between one with lust and one without lust?" "Great king, one is attached, one is unattached." "What, Venerable Sir, is this called attached and unattached?" "Great king, one desires benefit, one does not desire benefit." "I see, Venerable Sir, such that whether one has lust or is without lust, all desire only what is beautiful in food or meal, none desire what is bad." "Great king, one who is not without lust takes food experiencing both the taste and experiencing greed for the taste, but one without lust takes food experiencing the taste, but not experiencing greed for the taste."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question about the Difference between One with Lust and One without Lust, the Seventh

8.

The Question About the Support of Wisdom

8. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, where does wisdom dwell?" "Nowhere, great king." "Then, Venerable Nāgasena, there is no wisdom." "Where, great king, does the wind dwell?" "Nowhere, Venerable Sir." "Then, great king, there is no wind."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question about the Support of Wisdom is eighth.

9.

The Question About the Round of Rebirths

9. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'round of rebirths', what is this round of rebirths?" "Here, great king, one born here dies right here, having died here one arises elsewhere, born there one dies right there, having died there one arises elsewhere. Thus, great king, there is the round of rebirths." "Make a simile." "Just as, great king, if some person having eaten a ripe mango were to plant the stone, and from that a great mango tree would come to be and would give fruit, then that person having eaten a ripe mango from that too were to plant the stone, and from that too a great mango tree would come to be and would give fruit, thus no first point of these trees is discerned. Even so, great king, one born here dies right here, having died here one arises elsewhere, born there one dies right there, having died there one arises elsewhere. Thus, great king, there is the round of rebirths."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question about the Round of Rebirths is the Ninth.

10.

The Question About Remembering What Was Done Long Ago

10. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, by what does one remember what was done long ago in the past?" "By mindfulness, great king." "But Venerable Nāgasena, does one not remember by mind, not by mindfulness?" "Do you remember, great king, having done something that needed to be done and forgotten it?" "Yes, Venerable Sir." "Were you without mind at that time, great king?" "No, Venerable Sir, there was no mindfulness at that time." "Then why, great king, do you say 'one remembers by mind, not by mindfulness'?"

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question about Remembering What Was Done Long Ago is the tenth.

11.

The Question About Mindfulness and Direct Knowledge

11. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, does all mindfulness arise with direct knowledge, or is there also mechanical mindfulness?" "There is both with direct knowledge, great king, and mechanical mindfulness." "Then, Venerable Nāgasena, if all mindfulness is with direct knowledge, there is no mechanical mindfulness?" "If there were no mechanical mindfulness, great king, there would be nothing to be done by craftsmen through their fields of work or fields of craft or branches of knowledge, teachers would be useless, but because, great king, there is mechanical mindfulness, therefore there is something to be done through fields of work or fields of craft or branches of knowledge, and there is use for teachers."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question about Mindfulness and Direct Knowledge is eleventh.

The Chapter on Mindfulness is sixth.

In this chapter there are eleven questions.

7.

The Chapter on the Process of Formless States

1.

The Question About the Arising of Mindfulness

1. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, in how many ways does mindfulness arise?" "In seventeen ways, great king, mindfulness arises." "What are those seventeen ways?" "Great king, mindfulness arises through direct knowledge, mindfulness arises through mechanical means, mindfulness arises through gross consciousness, mindfulness arises through consciousness of what is beneficial, mindfulness arises through consciousness of what is not beneficial, mindfulness arises through similar signs, mindfulness arises through dissimilar signs, mindfulness arises through knowledge of speech, mindfulness arises through characteristics, mindfulness arises through recollection, mindfulness arises through seals, mindfulness arises through counting, mindfulness arises through memorizing, mindfulness arises through development, mindfulness arises through book records, mindfulness arises through depositing, mindfulness arises through what has been experienced."

"How does mindfulness arise through direct knowledge?" Just as, great king, the Venerable Ānanda and the female lay follower Khujjuttarā, or whoever else remembers past births, thus mindfulness arises through direct knowledge.

"How does mindfulness arise through obligation? One who is naturally unmindful, and others bind them for the purpose of making them remember, thus mindfulness arises through obligation.

"How does mindfulness arise from gross consciousness? When one is anointed to kingship, or has attained the fruit of stream-entry, thus mindfulness arises from gross consciousness.

"How does mindfulness arise from beneficial consciousness? When one has been made happy, one remembers 'I was made happy in such a way by that person', thus mindfulness arises from beneficial consciousness.

"How does mindfulness arise from unbeneficial consciousness? When one has been made to suffer, one remembers 'I was made to suffer in such a way by that person', thus mindfulness arises from unbeneficial consciousness.

"How does mindfulness arise from similar signs? Having seen a similar person, one remembers one's mother or father or brother or sister, having seen a camel or ox or donkey, one remembers another similar camel or ox or donkey, thus mindfulness arises from similar signs.

"How does mindfulness arise from dissimilar signs? One remembers 'such was the beauty of that person, such was their sound, such was their odour, such was their taste, such was their tactile object', thus mindfulness arises from dissimilar signs.

"How does mindfulness arise from knowledge of speech? One who is naturally unmindful, others remind them, by that they remember, thus mindfulness arises from knowledge of speech.

"How does mindfulness arise from characteristics? One who naturally knows by the factors of oxen, knows by characteristics, thus mindfulness arises from characteristics.

"How does mindfulness arise from reminding? One who is naturally unmindful, someone repeatedly reminds them 'remember, friend, remember, friend', thus mindfulness arises from reminding.

"How does mindfulness arise from signs? Due to training in writing one knows 'after this letter this letter should be made', thus mindfulness arises from signs.

"How does mindfulness arise from counting? Due to training in counting, accountants count even large amounts, thus mindfulness arises from counting.

"How does mindfulness arise from memorizing? Due to training in memorizing, memorizers memorize even large amounts, thus mindfulness arises from memorizing.

"How does mindfulness arise from development? Here a monk recollects manifold past lives, that is: one birth, two births... etc... thus with aspects and terms he recollects past lives, thus mindfulness arises from development.

"How does mindfulness arise from written records? When kings do not remember the instruction, they say 'Bring that document', and they remember through that document, thus mindfulness arises from written records.

"How does mindfulness arise from deposits? Having seen deposited goods one remembers, thus mindfulness arises from deposits.

"How does mindfulness arise from what has been experienced? From having seen form one remembers, from having heard sound one remembers, from having smelt odour one remembers, from having tasted flavour one remembers, from having touched tactile object one remembers, from having cognized mind-object one remembers, thus mindfulness arises from what has been experienced. In these seventeen ways, great king, mindfulness arises."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The First Question about the Arising of Mindfulness.

2.

The Question About Obtaining Mindfulness of the Qualities of the Enlightened One

2. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'one who would do unwholesome deeds for a hundred years, but at the time of death would obtain mindfulness of one quality of the Enlightened One, would arise among deities', I do not believe this, and you also say 'by this destruction of life one would arise in hell', I do not believe this either."

"What do you think, great king, would even a small stone float on water without a boat?" "No, Venerable Sir." "But great king, would even a hundred cartloads of stones loaded on a boat float on water?" "Yes, Venerable Sir." "Just as the boat, great king, so should wholesome actions be seen."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Second Question about Obtaining Mindfulness of the Qualities of the Enlightened One.

3.

The Question About Striving to Abandon Suffering

3. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, do you strive for the abandoning of past suffering?" "No, great king." "But, Venerable Sir, do you strive for the abandoning of future suffering?" "No, great king." "But do you strive for the abandoning of present suffering?" "No, great king." "If you do not strive for the abandoning of past suffering, do not strive for the abandoning of future suffering, do not strive for the abandoning of present suffering, then for what purpose do you strive?" The elder said "Great king, we strive for this purpose: so that this suffering might cease and no other suffering might arise."

"But Venerable Nāgasena, is there future suffering?" "No, great king." "You are too clever, Venerable Nāgasena, who strive for the abandoning of non-existent future suffering?" "But great king, do you have any rival kings who are opponents, enemies, who stand against you?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, there is." "But great king, would you then have a moat dug, have a wall built, have a gateway made, have a watchtower made, have grain brought in?" "No, Venerable Sir, all that is prepared beforehand." "Would you then, great king, train in elephant, train in horse, train in chariot, train in bow, train in sword?" "No, Venerable Sir, all that training is done beforehand." "For what purpose?" "For warding off future dangers, Venerable Sir." "But great king, is there future danger?" "No, Venerable Sir." "You are too clever, great king, who prepare for warding off non-existent future dangers."

"Make another simile." "What do you think, great king, when you would be thirsty, would you then have a well dug, have a lotus pond dug, have a pond dug, thinking 'I will drink water'?" "No, Venerable Sir, all that is prepared beforehand." "For what purpose?" "It is prepared, Venerable Sir, for warding off future thirst." "But great king, is there future thirst?" "No, Venerable Sir." "You are too clever, great king, who prepare that for warding off non-existent future thirst."

"Make another simile." "What do you think, great king, when you would be hungry, would you then have a field ploughed, have rice sown, thinking 'I will eat a meal'?" "No, Venerable Sir, all that is prepared beforehand." "For what purpose?" "For warding off future hunger, Venerable Sir." "But great king, is there future hunger?" "No, Venerable Sir." "You are too clever, great king, who prepare for warding off non-existent future hunger."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Third Question about Striving to Abandon Suffering.

4.

The Question About the Brahmā World

4. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, how far is the brahmā world from here?" "Far indeed, great king, is the brahmā world from here. A stone the size of a peaked house falling from there, descending forty-eight thousand yojanas in a day and night, would reach the earth in four months."

"Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'just as a strong person might extend their bent arm or bend their extended arm, even so a monk with spiritual power, master of mind, might disappear from Rose-Apple Land and appear in the brahmā world', I do not believe this statement, that one would go so many hundreds of yojanas so extremely quickly."

The Elder said: "Where, great king, is your birth place?" "There is, Venerable Sir, an island named Alasanda; there I was born." "How far, great king, is Alasanda from here?" "About two hundred yojanas, Venerable Sir." "Do you remember, great king, having done something that needed to be done there?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, I remember." "You have gone quickly, great king, two hundred yojanas."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question about the Brahmā World, fourth.

5.

The Question About the Equal Time for Arising in Two Worlds

5. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, of one who dies here and would arise in the brahmā world, and one who dies here and would arise in Kashmir, who takes longer and who takes less time?" "Equal time, great king."

"Make a simile." "Where, great king, is your birth town?" "There is, Venerable Sir, a village named Kalasi; there I was born." "How far, great king, is Kalasi village from here?" "About two hundred yojanas, Venerable Sir." "How far, great king, is Kashmir from here?" "Twelve yojanas, Venerable Sir." "Come now, great king, think of Kalasi village." "I have thought of it, Venerable Sir." "Come now, great king, think of Kashmir." "I have thought of it, Venerable Sir." "Which, great king, took longer to think of, which took less time?" "The same time, Venerable Sir." "Even so, great king, one who dies here and would arise in the brahmā world, and one who dies here and would arise in Kashmir, arise at exactly the same time."

"Make another simile." "What do you think, great king, if two birds were to go through space, and of these one would perch on a high tree, one would perch on a low tree, when they are both established, whose shadow would first establish on the earth, whose shadow would establish on the earth later?" "At the same time, Venerable Sir." "Even so, great king, one who dies here and would arise in the brahmā world, and one who dies here and would arise in Kashmir, arise at exactly the same time."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question about the Equal Time for Arising in Two Worlds, the fifth.

6.

The Question About the Enlightenment Factors

6. The king said: "How many enlightenment factors are there, Venerable Nāgasena?" "There are seven enlightenment factors, great king." "But with how many enlightenment factors does one awaken, Venerable Sir?" "One awakens with one enlightenment factor, great king, with the investigation-of-states enlightenment factor." "Then why, Venerable Sir, are they called 'seven enlightenment factors'?" "What do you think, great king, would a sword placed in its sheath, without being grasped by the hand, be able to cut what should be cut?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Even so, great king, without the investigation-of-states enlightenment factor, one does not awaken with the six enlightenment factors."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question about the Enlightenment Factors, sixth.

7.

The Question About the Small and Great Production of Evil and Merit

7. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, which is more abundant, merit or demerit?" "Merit, great king, is more abundant, demerit is little." "For what reason?" "Great king, one doing demerit feels regret 'evil action was done by me', thus evil does not increase. Great king, one doing merit feels no regret, in one who feels no regret gladness arises; in one who is gladdened, rapture arises; in one whose mind is rapturous, the body becomes tranquil; one tranquil in body feels pleasure; in one who is happy, the mind becomes concentrated; one concentrated understands as it really is, for this reason merit increases. Great king, a person with severed hands and feet, having given one handful of lotuses to the Blessed One, will not go to the nether world for ninety-one aeons. For this reason too, great king, I say 'merit is more abundant, demerit is little.'"

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question About the Abundance and Scarcity of Evil and Merit, the Seventh.

8.

The Question About Doing Evil Knowingly and Unknowingly

8. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, of one who does an evil action knowingly and one who does an evil action unknowingly, who has more demerit?" The elder said "Great king, one who does an evil action unknowingly has more demerit." "Then, Venerable Nāgasena, when our prince or royal minister does an evil action unknowingly, we punish him doubly?" "What do you think, great king, if a hot iron ball, blazing, flaming, glowing, one would take knowingly, one would take unknowingly, which one would be burned more severely?" "Venerable Sir, one who would take it unknowingly would be burned more severely." "Even so, great king, one who does an evil action unknowingly has more demerit."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question about Doing Evil Knowingly and Unknowingly is eighth.

9.

The Question About Going to Uttarakuru and Other Places

9. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, is there anyone who could go with this body to Uttarakuru, or to the brahmā world, or to another continent?" "There is, great king, one who could go with this body made of the four great elements to Uttarakuru, or to the brahmā world, or to another continent."

"How, Venerable Nāgasena, could one go with this body made of the four great elements to Uttarakuru, or to the brahmā world, or to another continent?" "Do you remember, great king, having jumped a span or a cubit on this earth?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, I remember 'I, Venerable Nāgasena, jump even eight cubits'." "How, great king, did you jump even eight cubits?" "Indeed, Venerable Sir, I raise the thought 'I will land there' and together with the raising of that thought my body becomes light." "Even so, great king, a monk with spiritual power, master of mind, having placed the body on the mind, goes through the air by the power of mind."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Ninth Question about Going to Uttarakuru and Other Places.

10.

The Question About Long Bones

10. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'there are bones a hundred yojanas long', there is not even a tree a hundred yojanas long, how then could there be bones a hundred yojanas long?"

"What do you think, great king, have you heard 'there are fish in the great ocean that are five hundred yojanas long'?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, I have heard." "Now, great king, would not the bones of a fish five hundred yojanas long be one hundred yojanas long?"

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question about Long Bones is tenth.

11.

The Question About the Cessation of In-breathing and Out-breathing

11. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'it is possible to stop in-breathing and out-breathing'?" "Yes, great king, it is possible to stop in-breathing and out-breathing." "How, Venerable Nāgasena, is it possible to stop in-breathing and out-breathing?" "What do you think, great king, have you heard anyone snoring before?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, I have heard." "But great king, would that sound cease when the body is bent?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, it would cease." "Indeed great king, if that sound will cease when the body is bent for one whose body is undeveloped, whose virtuous behavior is undeveloped, whose mind is undeveloped, whose wisdom is undeveloped, why would in-breathing and out-breathing not cease for one whose body is developed, whose virtuous behavior is developed, whose mind is developed, whose wisdom is developed, who has attained the fourth meditative absorption?"

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Eleventh Question about the Cessation of In-breathing and Out-breathing.

12.

The Question About the Ocean

12. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, 'ocean, ocean' it is said, for what reason is the water called 'ocean'?" The elder said "Great king, as much as there is water, that much there is salt. As much as there is salt, that much there is water. Therefore it is called 'ocean'."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Twelfth Question, about the Ocean.

13.

The Question About the Ocean Having One Taste

13. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, for what reason does the ocean have one taste, a salty taste?" "Great king, because the water has been established for a long time, the ocean has one taste, a salty taste."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question about the Ocean Having One Taste is the thirteenth.

14.

The Question About the Subtle

14. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, is it possible to cut all that is subtle?" "Yes, great king, it is possible to cut all that is subtle." "But what, Venerable Sir, is all that is subtle?" "The Teaching, great king, is the most subtle, but, great king, not all things are subtle, 'subtle' or 'gross' are designations for things. Whatever is to be cut, all that one cuts with wisdom, there is no second cutting with wisdom."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Fourteenth Question about the Subtle.

15.

The Question About the Diversity of Consciousness

15. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, are these things - 'consciousness' or 'wisdom' or 'soul in a being' - different in meaning and different in phrasing, or are they one in meaning and different only in phrasing?" "Great king, consciousness has cognizing as its characteristic, wisdom has understanding as its characteristic, a soul in a being is not found." "If a soul is not found, then who sees forms with the eye, hears sounds with the ear, smells odours with the nose, tastes flavours with the tongue, touches tactile objects with the body, cognizes mind-objects with the mind?" The elder said "If a soul sees forms with the eye...etc... cognizes mind-objects with the mind, when that soul's eye-doors are torn out, through the great space it should see forms much better looking outwards, when the ears are torn out, when the nose is torn out, when the tongue is torn out, when the body is torn out, through the great space it should hear sounds much better, should smell odours, should taste flavours, should touch tactile objects?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Then, great king, a soul in a being is not found."

"You are wise, Venerable Nāgasena."

The Question about the Diversity of Consciousness is the fifteenth.

16.

The Question About the Difficulty of Defining Formless States

16. The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, did the Blessed One do something difficult?" The elder said "The Blessed One did something difficult, great king." "But what difficult thing, Venerable Nāgasena, did the Blessed One do?" "The Blessed One did something difficult, great king, in explaining the definition of these formless states - mental states and mental factors - occurring with a single object, as 'this is contact, this is feeling, this is perception, this is volition, this is mind'."

"Make a simile." "Just as, great king, if some person were to plunge into the great ocean in a boat, take water in his cupped hands, taste it with his tongue, would that person know, great king, 'This is water from the Ganges, this is water from the Yamuna, this is water from the Aciravati, this is water from the Sarabhu, this is water from the Mahi'?" "It would be difficult to know, Venerable Sir." "Even more difficult than this, great king, was what the Blessed One did in explaining the definition of these formless states - mental states and mental factors - occurring with a single object, as 'this is contact, this is feeling, this is perception, this is volition, this is mind'." "Excellent, Venerable Sir," the king rejoiced.

The Sixteenth Question about the Difficulty of Defining Formless States.

The Seventh Chapter on the Analysis of Formless States.

In this chapter there are sixteen questions.

Questions and Answers of Milinda

The Elder said "Do you know, great king, what time it is now?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, I know 'now the first watch has passed, the middle watch is proceeding, torches are being lit, four orders have been given regarding the royal goods to be distributed.'"

The Greeks said "You are pliant, great king, the Elder is wise." "Yes, indeed, the Elder is wise. If there were a teacher like him and a pupil like me, one would soon understand the Teaching." Pleased with his answering of questions, the king covered the Elder Nāgasena with a blanket worth a hundred thousand and said: "Venerable Nāgasena, from today I establish eight hundred meals for you, and I invite you to anything allowable within the palace." "Enough, great king, I make my living." "I know, Venerable Nāgasena, you make your living, but protect both yourself and me." "How do you protect yourself? Protect yourself thus, lest others should speak ill: 'Nāgasena gives confidence to King Milinda but receives nothing.' How do you protect me? Protect me thus, lest others should speak ill: 'King Milinda was confident but did not show his confidence.'" "Let it be so, great king." "Venerable Sir, just as a lion, the king of beasts, even when put in a golden cage, still faces outward, even so, Venerable Sir, though I live in a house, I face outward. If I were to go forth from home into homelessness, Venerable Sir, I would not live long, I have many enemies."

Then the Venerable Nāgasena, having answered King Milinda's question, rose from his seat and went to the monastery. Soon after the Venerable Nāgasena had departed, this occurred to King Milinda: "What did I ask, what did the Venerable Nāgasena answer?" Then this occurred to King Milinda: "All was well asked by me, all was well answered by the Venerable Nāgasena." When the Venerable Nāgasena had gone to the monastery, this occurred to him: "What did King Milinda ask, what did I answer?" Then this occurred to the Venerable Nāgasena: "All was well asked by King Milinda, all was well answered by me."

Then the Venerable Nāgasena, when that night had passed, having dressed in the morning and taking his bowl and robe, approached King Milinda's residence, and having approached, sat down on the prepared seat. Then King Milinda paid homage to the Venerable Nāgasena and sat down to one side. Seated to one side, King Milinda said this to the Venerable Nāgasena -

"Let not the Venerable One think thus: 'Nāgasena was asked a question by me' and pass the remainder of the night with that joy. It should not be regarded thus by you. "Venerable Sir, during the remainder of that night, this occurred to me: 'What did I ask, what did the Venerable One answer?' 'All was well asked by me, all was well answered by the Venerable One.'"

The Elder also said this - "Let not the great king think thus: 'I answered a question to King Milinda' and pass the remainder of the night with that joy. It should not be regarded thus by you. Great king, during the remainder of that night, this occurred to me: 'What did King Milinda ask, what did I answer?' 'All was well asked by King Milinda, all was well answered by me.'" Thus these great ones mutually rejoiced in each other's well-spoken words.

The Questions and Answers of Milinda is concluded.

Talk on the Beginning of the Ram Questions

Eight States to be Avoided

Then King Milinda, when night had passed and dawn had broken, having bathed his head and raised his joined palms to his head, having recollected the Perfectly Enlightened Ones of the past, future and present, undertook eight observances: "From now for the coming seven days, having undertaken eight qualities, I must practice austerity, and I, having practiced austerity, having pleased the teacher, will ask questions about the rams." Then King Milinda, having removed his ordinary pair of clothes and taken off his ornaments, having put on the yellow robe, having tied a shaven-head covering on his head, having entered into the state of a sage, undertook eight qualities: "For these seven days I must not administer royal affairs, I must not give rise to consciousness associated with lust, I must not give rise to consciousness associated with hatred, I must not give rise to consciousness associated with delusion, I must be humble even towards slaves, workers and servants, I must guard bodily and verbal actions, I must guard the six sense bases completely, I must direct the mind to the development of loving-kindness." Having undertaken these eight qualities and having established the mind in those same eight qualities, not going outside, having spent seven days, on the eighth day when night had passed, having eaten breakfast early, with downcast eyes, measured in speech, with well-composed posture, with undistracted mind, joyful, elated, serene, having approached the Elder Nāgasena and having paid homage with his head at the Elder's feet, standing to one side, said this -

"Venerable Nāgasena, I have a matter to discuss with you, no third person is wanted there, in an empty place, in a secluded forest endowed with the eight factors suitable for ascetics." Therein that question will need to be asked, therein I should not make it secret or confidential, I am worthy to hear a secret when good consultation has arisen, that meaning should be examined with a simile too, as what like, just as, Venerable Nāgasena, the great earth is worthy to receive when a deposit has arrived. Even so, Venerable Nāgasena, I am worthy to hear a secret when good consultation has arisen." Having entered a secluded forest with the teacher, he said this - "Venerable Nāgasena, here when a person wishes to consult, there are eight places that should be avoided, a wise person does not discuss the purpose in those places, even when discussed the purpose fails and does not succeed. What are the eight places? An unrighteous place should be avoided, a fearful place should be avoided, an extremely windy place should be avoided, a concealed place should be avoided, a place of deities should be avoided, a road should be avoided, a battlefield should be avoided, a bathing place should be avoided. These eight places should be avoided."

The Elder said: "What is the fault in an unrighteous place, a fearful place, an extremely windy place, a concealed place, a place of deities, a road, a battlefield, a bathing place?" "Venerable Nāgasena, in an uneven place the discussed matter scatters, disperses, flows away, does not originate; in a fearful place the mind trembles, and trembling one does not rightly discern the meaning; in too much wind sound is unclear; in a concealed place eavesdroppers stand; in a place of deities the discussed matter matures heavily; on a path the discussed matter becomes hollow; in battle it becomes unsteady; at a water ford it becomes evident. Here it is -

Eight places to be avoided for discussion.

Eight Types of Persons who Destroy Discussion

"Venerable Nāgasena, these eight persons when discussing ruin the discussed matter. What are the eight? One of lustful temperament, one of hateful temperament, one of deluded temperament, one of conceited temperament, the greedy one, the lazy one, the single-minded one, and the foolish one. These eight individuals ruin the discussed matter."

The Elder said "What is their fault?" "Venerable Nāgasena, one of lustful temperament ruins the discussed matter due to lust, one of hateful temperament ruins the discussed matter due to hatred, one of deluded temperament ruins the discussed matter due to delusion, one of conceited temperament ruins the discussed matter due to conceit, the greedy one ruins the discussed matter due to greed, the lazy one ruins the discussed matter due to laziness, the single-minded one ruins the discussed matter due to single-mindedness, the foolish one ruins the discussed matter due to foolishness. Here it is -

Eight individuals who destroy discussion.

Nine who Reveal Secret Discussion

"Venerable Nāgasena, these nine individuals reveal and do not keep secret what has been discussed. What nine? One of lustful temperament, one of hateful temperament, one of deluded temperament, the fearful one, one devoted to material things, a woman, a drunkard, a eunuch, and a child."

The Elder said "What is their fault?" "Venerable Nāgasena, one of lustful temperament reveals and does not keep a discussed secret due to lust, Venerable Sir, one of hateful temperament reveals and does not keep a discussed secret due to hatred, the deluded one reveals and does not keep a discussed secret due to delusion, the fearful one reveals and does not keep a discussed secret due to fear, one devoted to material things reveals and does not keep a discussed secret because of material things, a woman reveals and does not keep a discussed secret due to the weakness of her wisdom, a drunkard reveals and does not keep a discussed secret due to addiction to liquor, a eunuch reveals and does not keep a discussed secret due to indecisiveness, a child reveals and does not keep a discussed secret due to fickleness. Here it is -

Nine individuals who reveal secret discussions.

Eight Causes for Obtaining Wisdom

"Venerable Sir Nāga, through eight reasons wisdom matures and reaches ripeness. Which eight? Through maturing in age wisdom matures and reaches ripeness, through maturing in fame wisdom matures and reaches ripeness, through questioning wisdom matures and reaches ripeness, through living at a learning centre wisdom matures and reaches ripeness, through careful attention wisdom matures and reaches ripeness, through discussion wisdom matures and reaches ripeness, through association with affection wisdom matures and reaches ripeness, through dwelling in a suitable place wisdom matures and reaches ripeness. Here it is -

Eight causes for obtaining wisdom.

The Qualities of a Teacher

"Venerable Nāgasena, this region is free from the eight faults of mantras, and I am the supreme companion of mantras in the world, and I am a keeper of secrets and will keep secrets as long as I live, and my understanding has matured through eight reasons, such a pupil as myself is rare to find nowadays, when a pupil practises properly, the teacher should properly practise those twenty-five qualities of teachers. What are the twenty-five qualities?

"Here, Venerable Nāgasena, a teacher should constantly establish protection over the pupil, should know what should and should not be associated with, should know what is careless and careful, should know suitable dwelling places, should know illness, should know what food has been obtained and not obtained, should know distinction, should share what has been received in the bowl, should reassure 'Do not fear, your purpose is advancing', should know 'He associates with this person', should know association in the village, should know association in the dwelling, should not make jest or sport with him, should converse with him, seeing a fault should be patient, should be one who acts respectfully, should be one who acts without breaking, should be one who acts worthily, should be one who acts completely, should establish the thought 'I will generate this one in the crafts', should establish the thought 'How might this one not decline?', should establish the thought 'I make this one strong through the power of training', should establish loving-kindness, should not abandon in misfortunes, should not be negligent in what should be done, when there is a mistake should support according to the Teaching." "Venerable Sir, these are the twenty-five qualities of a teacher, practise these qualities properly towards me, I have a doubt, there are questions about the Conqueror's word like the ram, in the future course of time disputes will arise about them, and in the future course of time wise ones like yourself will be rare to find, give me vision regarding those questions for the refutation of other doctrines."

The Qualities of a Male Lay Follower

The elder agreed saying "Very well" and explained the ten qualities of a male lay follower. "Great king, these are the ten qualities of a male lay follower. What are the ten? Here, great king, a male lay follower shares in the happiness and suffering of the Community, has the Teaching as his authority, delights in giving according to his ability, and seeing decline in the Conqueror's Dispensation, strives for its growth. He has right view, is free from superstitious omens, does not point to another teacher even for the sake of his life, is restrained in body and speech, delights in and is devoted to concord, is not envious, does not practice the Teaching with deceit, has gone for refuge to the Buddha, has gone for refuge to the Teaching, has gone for refuge to the Community. These, great king, are the ten qualities of a male lay follower. All these qualities are found in you. It is fitting, proper, suitable and appropriate for you that, seeing decline in the Conqueror's Dispensation, you wish for its growth. I give you the opportunity. Ask me whatever you wish."

Talk on the Beginning of the Ram Questions is concluded.

4.

Question About the Rams

1.

The Chapter on the Power of Spiritual Powers

1.

Question About the Fruitful Results of Deeds Done

1. Then King Milinda, having been given the opportunity, bowing down and placing his head at the feet of the teacher, making reverential salutation, said this: "Venerable Nāgasena, these sectarians speak thus: 'If the Buddha accepts offerings, the Buddha is not attained final Nibbāna, he is connected with the world, is within existence, is common with the world, therefore deeds done for him are not fruitless but fruitful. If he has attained final Nibbāna, disconnected from the world, freed from all existences, offerings to him do not arise, one who has attained final Nibbāna accepts nothing, deeds done for one who does not accept are fruitless and without result.' This question has two points, this is not the domain of those whose minds have not attained, this is only the domain of the great ones. Break this net of views, establish it definitively, this question has come to you, give vision to future sons of the Conqueror for the refutation of other doctrines."

The Elder said: "Great king, the Blessed One has attained final Nibbāna, and the Blessed One does not accept offerings, the accepting was abandoned by the Truth Finder right at the foot of the Bodhi tree, what then of one who has attained final Nibbāna in the element of Nibbāna without residue remaining. This too was said, great king, by the elder Sāriputta, the general of the Teaching -

The king said "Venerable Nāgasena, a son speaks praise of his father, or a father speaks praise of his son, this is not a reason for refuting others' doctrines, this is called showing confidence, come now, tell me properly the reason there for establishing one's own doctrine and disentangling the net of views."

The Elder said: "Great king, the Blessed One has attained final Nibbāna, and the Blessed One does not accept offerings, and while the Truth Finder does not accept, deities and human beings, making the jewel-relic a basis, engaging in right practice with the jewel of the Truth Finder's knowledge as object, obtain the three kinds of success.

"Just as, great king, if a great mass of fire, having blazed up, would be quenched, would that great mass of fire, great king, accept grass and sticks as fuel?" "Even when blazing, Venerable Sir, that great mass of fire does not accept grass and sticks as fuel, so how could it when quenched, peaceful, and without consciousness?" "When that mass of fire has ceased and become peaceful, great king, is the world empty of fire?" "No, Venerable Sir, wood is not the basis and fuel for fire. Any people who want fire, they through their own strength, power, energy, and individual effort, by rubbing wood produce fire, and with that fire do the work that needs to be done with fire." "Then, great king, the sectarians' statement is wrong: 'deeds done for one who does not accept are fruitless and without result.'

"Just as, great king, a great mass of fire blazed up, even so the Blessed One blazed with the glory of a Buddha throughout the ten-thousandfold world system. Just as, great king, a great mass of fire having blazed up was quenched, even so the Blessed One, having blazed with the glory of a Buddha throughout the ten-thousandfold world system, attained final Nibbāna in the element of Nibbāna without residue remaining. Just as, great king, a quenched mass of fire does not accept grass and sticks as fuel, even so the accepting of the welfare of the world has been abandoned, is peaceful. Just as, great king, when a mass of fire is quenched, without fuel, people through their own strength, power, energy, and individual effort, by rubbing wood produce fire, and with that fire do the work that needs to be done with fire, even so deities and human beings, while the Truth Finder has attained final Nibbāna and does not accept, making the jewel-relic a basis, engaging in right practice with the jewel of the Truth Finder's knowledge as object, obtain the three kinds of success, for this reason too, great king, deeds done for the Truth Finder who has attained final Nibbāna and does not accept are not fruitless but fruitful.

"Great king, hear another further reason why deeds done for the Truth Finder who has attained final Nibbāna and does not accept are not fruitless but fruitful. "Just as, great king, if a great wind having blown would cease, would that ceased wind, great king, accept being produced again?" "No, Venerable Sir, the ceased wind has no inclination or attention to being produced again." "What is the reason?" "That air element is without consciousness." "But does that ceased wind, great king, lose its designation as 'wind'?" "No, Venerable Sir, palm-leaf fans and fans are conditions for the arising of wind. Any people who are afflicted by heat and tormented by passion, they through their own strength, power, energy, and individual effort, producing it with a palm-leaf fan or fan, with that wind extinguish the heat and make the passion subside." "Then, great king, the sectarians' statement is wrong: 'deeds done for one who does not accept are fruitless and without result.'

"Just as, great king, a great wind blew, even so the Blessed One blew throughout the ten-thousandfold world system with the cool, sweet, peaceful, subtle wind of loving-kindness. Just as, great king, a great wind having blown ceased, even so the Blessed One having blown with the cool, sweet, peaceful, subtle wind of loving-kindness, attained final Nibbāna in the element of Nibbāna without residue remaining. Just as, great king, the ceased wind does not accept being produced again, even so the accepting of the welfare of the world has been abandoned, is peaceful. Just as, great king, those people are afflicted by heat and tormented by passion, even so deities and human beings are tormented by the passion of the three fires' torment. Just as palm-leaf fans and fans are conditions for the production of wind, even so the relic of the Truth Finder and the jewel of knowledge are conditions for obtaining the three kinds of success. Just as people afflicted by heat and tormented by passion, producing wind with a palm-leaf fan or fan, extinguish the heat and make the passion subside, even so deities and human beings, while the Truth Finder has attained final Nibbāna and does not accept, having honoured the relic and the jewel of knowledge, producing what is wholesome, with that wholesomeness extinguish and make subside the passion of the three fires' torment. For this reason too, great king, deeds done for the Truth Finder who has attained final Nibbāna and does not accept are not fruitless but fruitful.

"Great king, hear another further reason for the refutation of others' doctrines. "Just as, great king, if a person having struck a drum would produce a sound, that drum sound produced by the person would disappear, would that sound, great king, accept being produced again?" "No, Venerable Sir, that sound has disappeared, it has no inclination or attention for arising again, when the once produced drum sound has disappeared, that drum sound is completely cut off. But the drum, Venerable Sir, is a condition for the production of sound, then when the condition exists, a person through self-generated effort, having struck the drum, produces sound." "Even so, great king, the Blessed One having established the jewel-relic and the Teaching and the discipline and the instruction as teacher, which were developed through virtue, concentration, wisdom, liberation, and knowledge and vision of liberation, himself attained final Nibbāna in the element of Nibbāna without residue remaining, and when the Blessed One has attained final Nibbāna the attainment of success is not cut off, beings tormented by the suffering of existence, making the jewel-relic and the Teaching and the discipline and the instruction a condition, desiring success, obtain successes. For this reason too, great king, deeds done for the Truth Finder who has attained final Nibbāna and does not accept are not fruitless but fruitful."

"And this, great king, was seen by the Blessed One for the future time. It has been spoken, said and declared: 'But, Ānanda, it might occur to you: "The Teacher's instruction belongs to the past, we have no teacher." But, Ānanda, it should not be regarded thus. The Teaching and Vinaya that I have taught and laid down for you, Ānanda, will be your teacher after my passing.' 'Deeds done for the Truth Finder who has attained final Nibbāna and does not accept are fruitless and without result' - this statement of those sectarians is wrong, untrue, false, incorrect, contradictory, perverse, causing suffering, resulting in suffering, leading to planes of misery.

"Great king, hear another further reason why deeds done for the Truth Finder who has attained final Nibbāna and does not accept are not fruitless but fruitful. "But great king, does this great earth accept 'Let all seeds grow in me'?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Then why, great king, do those seeds, though the great earth does not accept, grow, become established with firm root networks, spread out with trunks, core and branches, and bear flowers and fruits?" "Though not accepting, Venerable Sir, the great earth becomes their basis and gives conditions for growing, those seeds depending on that basis and by that condition grow, become established with firm root networks, spread out with trunks, core and branches, and bear flowers and fruits." "Then, great king, the sectarians are lost in their own doctrine, destroyed, contradicted, if they say 'deeds done for one who does not accept are fruitless and without result.'

"Just as, great king, the great earth, so is the Truth Finder, the Worthy One, the Perfectly Enlightened One. Just as, great king, the great earth does not accept anything, so the Truth Finder does not accept anything. Just as, great king, those seeds depending on the earth grow, become established with firm root networks, spread out with trunks, core and branches, and bear flowers and fruits, even so deities and human beings, while the Truth Finder has attained final Nibbāna and does not accept, depending on the relic and the jewel of knowledge, become established with firm wholesome roots, spread out with the trunk of concentration, the core of Teaching, and branches of virtue, and bear the flowers of liberation and fruits of recluseship. For this reason too, great king, deeds done for the Truth Finder who has attained final Nibbāna and does not accept are not fruitless but fruitful.

"Great king, hear another further reason why deeds done for the Truth Finder who has attained final Nibbāna and does not accept are not fruitless but fruitful. "But great king, do these camels, cattle, donkeys, goats, beasts and human beings accept the origination of families of worms in their bellies?" "No, Venerable Sir." "But why, great king, do those worms, though they do not accept, having originated in their bellies, attain expansion through having many offspring?" "Venerable Sir, through the power of evil action, though those beings do not accept, worms originate in their bellies and attain expansion through having many offspring." "Even so, great king, through the power of the relic and the knowledge as object, though the Truth Finder has attained final Nibbāna and does not accept, deeds done for the Truth Finder are not fruitless but fruitful.

"Great king, hear another further reason why deeds done for the Truth Finder who has attained final Nibbāna and does not accept are not fruitless but fruitful. "But great king, do these human beings accept these ninety-eight diseases to arise in the body?" "No, Venerable Sir." "But why, great king, do these diseases strike in the body though they do not accept them?" "Through misconduct done previously, Venerable Sir." "If, great king, unwholesome action done previously is to be experienced here, then, great king, both wholesome and unwholesome action done previously and done here are not fruitless but fruitful. For this reason too, great king, deeds done for the Truth Finder who has attained final Nibbāna and does not accept are not fruitless but fruitful.

"Have you heard before, great king, that a spirit named Nandaka, having attacked the elder Sāriputta, entered the earth?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, it is heard, this is well known in the world." "But great king, did the elder Sāriputta accept the spirit Nandaka's being swallowed by the great earth?" "Venerable Sir, even if the world with its deities were being overturned, even if the sun and moon were falling to earth, even if Mount Sineru, king of mountains, were being scattered, the elder Sāriputta would not accept suffering for another. What is the reason for this? The reason why the elder Sāriputta might become angry or hate has been eliminated and cut off in the elder Sāriputta, Venerable Sir, due to the uprooting of the cause, the elder Sāriputta would not get angry even at one who takes his life." "If, great king, the elder Sāriputta did not accept the spirit Nandaka's being swallowed by the earth, then why did the spirit Nandaka enter the earth?" "Through the power of unwholesome action, Venerable Sir." "If, great king, through the power of unwholesome action the spirit Nandaka entered the earth, then even an offence done to one who does not accept is not fruitless but fruitful. Then, great king, through the power of unwholesome action too, deeds done for one who does not accept are not fruitless but fruitful. For this reason too, great king, deeds done for the Truth Finder who has attained final Nibbāna and does not accept are not fruitless but fruitful.

"How many people, great king, are there who have now entered the great earth, do they have hearing there?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, it is heard." "Come now, great king, make it heard?" "Venerable Sir, Ciñcamāṇavikā, and Suppabuddha the Sakyan, and the Elder Devadatta, and the spirit Nandaka, and the youth Nanda. This has been heard, Venerable Sir, these five people entered the great earth." "Against whom, great king, did they commit an offence?" "Against the Blessed One, Venerable Sir, and against the disciples." "But great king, did the Blessed One or the disciples accept their entering into the great earth?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Then, great king, deeds done for the Truth Finder who has attained final Nibbāna and does not accept are not fruitless but fruitful." "Well explained, Venerable Nāgasena, is this profound question, what was hidden has been revealed, what was concealed has been uncovered, the knot has been untied, the thicket has been made into no thicket, the doctrines of others are lost, wrong views are broken, the sectarians have become dim, you are the foremost among the excellent teachers."

First Question about the Fruitful Results of Deeds Done.

2.

Question About the State of Omniscience

2. "Venerable Nāgasena, is the Buddha omniscient?" "Yes, great king, the Blessed One is omniscient, but the Blessed One's knowledge and vision is not constantly and continuously present. The Blessed One's omniscient knowledge is bound to reflection; having reflected he knows whatever he wishes." "Then, Venerable Nāgasena, the Buddha is not omniscient. If his omniscient knowledge comes through searching for it." "Great king, would one hundred cartloads of rice and half a cartload and seven ambaṇas and two tumbas of rice, when being counted, come to exhaustion and depletion in the moment of a finger-snap of occurring consciousness?

"Here these seven types of consciousness occur, those, great king, who have lust, hatred, delusion, defilements, who have not developed the body, not developed virtuous behavior, not developed the mind, not developed wisdom, for them that consciousness arises heavily and occurs slowly. For what reason? Because of the undevelopment of the mind. Just as, great king, when a bamboo stalk that is spread out, extensive, expanded, tangled and untangled, interwoven with branches and twigs, is being pulled, its coming is heavy and slow. For what reason? Because of the tangling and untangling of the branches. Even so, great king, those who have lust, hatred, delusion, defilements, who have not developed the body, not developed virtuous behavior, not developed the mind, not developed wisdom, for them that consciousness arises heavily and occurs slowly. For what reason? Because of being tangled and untangled with defilements, this is the first mind.

"Here the second mind comes to be divided - Those, great king, who are stream-enterers with the states of misery closed off, who are attained-to-view, who have understood the Teacher's Teaching, for them that mind arises lightly and occurs lightly in three states. In the higher planes it arises heavily and occurs slowly. For what reason? Because of the purity of mind in three states and because of the non-abandonment of defilements above. Just as, great king, when a bamboo stalk that is pure with three nodes, but above is interwoven with branches and twigs, is being pulled, it comes lightly as far as the three nodes, but above that it is rigid. For what reason? Because of purity below and because of being interwoven with branches and twigs above. Even so, great king, those who are stream-enterers with the states of misery closed off, who are attained-to-view, who have understood the Teacher's Teaching, for them that mind arises lightly and occurs lightly in three states, in the higher planes it arises heavily and occurs slowly. For what reason? Because of the purity of mind in three states and because of the non-abandonment of defilements above, this is the second mind.

Here this third mind comes to be analyzed - Those, great king, who are once-returners, in whom lust, hatred and delusion have become weakened, for them that mind arises lightly and occurs lightly in five states, in the higher planes it arises heavily and occurs slowly. For what reason? Because of the purity of mind in five states and because of the non-abandonment of defilements above. Just as, great king, when a bamboo stalk that is pure with five nodes, but above is interwoven with branches and twigs, is being pulled, it comes lightly as far as the five nodes, but above that it is rigid. For what reason? Because of purity below and because of being interwoven with branches and twigs above. Even so, great king, those who are once-returners, in whom lust, hatred and delusion have become weakened, for them that mind arises lightly and occurs lightly in five states, in the higher planes it arises heavily and occurs slowly. For what reason? Because of the purity of mind in five states and because of the non-abandonment of defilements above, this is the third mind.

Here this fourth mind comes to be analyzed - Those, great king, who are non-returners, in whom the five lower fetters have been abandoned, for them that mind arises lightly and occurs lightly in ten states, in the higher planes it arises heavily and occurs slowly. For what reason? Because of the purity of mind in ten states and because of the non-abandonment of defilements above. Just as, great king, when a bamboo stalk that is pure with ten nodes, but above is interwoven with branches and twigs, is being pulled, it comes lightly as far as the ten nodes, but above that it is rigid. For what reason? Because of purity below and because of being interwoven with branches and twigs above. Even so, great king, those who are non-returners, in whom the five lower fetters have been abandoned, for them that mind arises lightly and occurs lightly in ten states, in the higher planes it arises heavily and occurs slowly. For what reason? Because of the purity of mind in ten states and because of the non-abandonment of defilements above, this is the fourth mind.

Here this fifth mind comes to be analysed - Those, great king, who are arahants with taints destroyed, stains washed away, defilements vomited out, who have lived the holy life, done what had to be done, laid down the burden, reached the true goal, destroyed the fetters of existence, attained the analytical knowledges, purified in the planes of disciples, for them that mind arises lightly and occurs lightly in the domain of disciples, but arises heavily and occurs slowly in the planes of privately enlightened ones. For what reason? Because of purity in the domain of disciples, because of impurity in the domain of privately enlightened ones. Just as, great king, when a bamboo stalk that is pure in all its nodes and joints is being pulled, its coming is light and not slow. For what reason? Because of the purity of all nodes and joints and the non-entanglement of the bamboo. Even so, great king, those who are arahants with taints destroyed, stains washed away, defilements vomited out, who have lived the holy life, done what had to be done, laid down the burden, reached the true goal, destroyed the fetters of existence, attained the analytical knowledges, purified in the planes of disciples, for them that mind arises lightly and occurs lightly in the domain of disciples, but arises heavily and occurs slowly in the planes of privately enlightened ones. For what reason? Because of purity in the domain of disciples, because of impurity in the domain of privately enlightened ones, this is the fifth mind.

Here the sixth mind comes to be divided - Those, great king, who are privately enlightened ones, self-enlightened, without a teacher's doctrine, living alone, like rhinoceros horns, with pure and stainless minds in their own domain, for them that mind arises lightly and occurs lightly in their own domain, but arises heavily and occurs slowly in the planes of omniscient Buddhas. For what reason? Because of purity in their own domain and greatness of the domain of omniscient Buddhas. Just as, great king, a person would cross a small river in his own domain fearlessly night and day whenever he wishes, but seeing the great ocean beyond, deep, wide, unfathomable, shoreless, would be afraid, would hesitate, would not dare to cross. For what reason? Because of having crossed his own domain, and because of the greatness of the great ocean. Even so, great king, those who are privately enlightened ones, self-enlightened, without a teacher's doctrine, living alone, like rhinoceros horns, with pure and stainless minds in their own domain, for them that mind arises lightly and occurs lightly in their own domain, but arises heavily and occurs slowly in the planes of omniscient Buddhas. For what reason? Because of purity in their own domain and greatness of the domain of omniscient Buddhas, this is the sixth mind.

Here the seventh mind comes to be analyzed - Those, great king, who are perfectly enlightened ones, omniscient, bearers of the ten powers, confident with the four grounds of self-confidence, endowed with the eighteen qualities of a Buddha, of endless victory, with unobstructed knowledge, for them that mind arises lightly and occurs lightly everywhere. For what reason? Because of being completely pure everywhere. But great king, would there be slowness or sticking when a well-polished, stainless, knotless, sharp-edged, straight, unbent, uncrooked arrow, mounted on a strong bow, is powerfully shot at a fine linen or fine cotton or fine wool cloth? "No, Venerable Sir, for what reason?" "Because of the fineness of the cloths, the well-polished state of the arrow, and the power of the shot." Even so, great king, those who are perfectly enlightened ones, omniscient, bearers of the ten powers, confident with the four grounds of self-confidence, endowed with the eighteen qualities of a Buddha, of endless victory, with unobstructed knowledge, for them that mind arises lightly and occurs lightly everywhere. For what reason? Because of being completely pure everywhere, this is the seventh mind.

"There, great king, that which is the mind of omniscient Buddhas, that surpasses the counting of the six minds and is pure and light by incalculable qualities. Because the Blessed One's mind is purified and light, therefore, great king, the Blessed One displays the twin miracle. In the twin miracle, great king, it should be known that the mind of the Buddhas, the Blessed Ones, turns so quickly, no further reason can be stated about it, and those miracles, great king, in relation to the mind of the Omniscient Buddhas, do not amount to a calculation, a reckoning, a fraction, or even a fraction of a fraction. The omniscient knowledge of the Blessed One, great king, is bound to adverting; having adverted, he knows whatever he wishes.

"Just as, great king, a person might place whatever is placed in one hand into the other hand, utter speech with an open mouth, swallow food that is in the mouth, open or close the eyes, extend a bent arm or bend an extended arm - this takes longer, great king - quicker is the omniscient knowledge of the Blessed One, quicker is his adverting; having adverted, he knows whatever he wishes. The Buddhas, the Blessed Ones, are not non-omniscient merely due to the slight delay in adverting."

"Venerable Nāgasena, adverting too must be searched for, please convince me about this with a reason." "Just as, great king, if a wealthy person of great riches and great wealth, having abundant gold and silver, having abundant goods and equipment, having abundant wealth and grain such as rice, barley, paddy, sesame, green gram, beans, grain and other foodstuffs, and ghee, oil, butter, milk, curd, honey, jaggery and molasses would be stored in pots, jars, vessels, granaries and containers, and a guest would come to him worthy of a meal and desiring a meal, and the cooked food in his house would be finished, he would take rice from the jar and cook a meal, but great king, would he be called poor or destitute merely because of that slight lack of food?" "No, Venerable Sir, even in a wheel-turning monarch's house there is lack of food at the wrong time, what to speak of a householder's?" Even so, great king, the Truth Finder's omniscient knowledge has just a slight delay in adverting, having adverted he knows whatever he wishes.

"Moreover, great king, if there were a tree with fruit, bent down and loaded with clusters of fruit, and no fruit had fallen from it, would that tree, great king, be called fruitless merely because of that slight lack of fallen fruit?" "No, Venerable Sir, those tree fruits are not bound to falling, when they have fallen one obtains whatever one wishes." "Even so, great king, the Truth Finder's omniscient knowledge is bound to reflection, having reflected he knows whatever he wishes."

"Venerable Nāgasena, does the Buddha know whatever he wishes only after reflecting and reflecting?" "Yes, great king, the Blessed One knows whatever he wishes after reflecting and reflecting."

"Just as, great king, when a wheel-turning monarch remembers the wheel-jewel thinking 'Let my wheel-jewel come', upon remembering the wheel-jewel comes, even so, great king, the Truth Finder knows whatever he wishes after reflecting and reflecting." "Strong is the reason, Venerable Nāgasena, the Buddha is omniscient, we accept that the Buddha is omniscient."

Question about the State of Omniscience, Second.

3.

Question About Devadatta's Going Forth

3. "Venerable Nāgasena, by whom was Devadatta ordained?" "Great king, these six noble sons - Bhaddiya, Anuruddha, Ānanda, Bhagu, Kimila, and Devadatta, with Upāli the barber as seventh - went forth following the Blessed One when the Teacher was enlightened, bringing delight to the Sakyan clan. The Blessed One ordained them." "But Venerable Sir, did not Devadatta split the Community after going forth?" "Yes, great king, Devadatta split the Community after going forth. A layperson does not split the Community, neither does a nun, nor a trainee nun, nor a male novice, nor a female novice split the Community. A regular monk who is of common communion, standing within the same boundary splits the Community." "Venerable Sir, what action does a person who splits the Community generate?" "Great king, he generates an action lasting for an aeon."

"But Venerable Nāgasena, did the Buddha know 'Devadatta after going forth will split the Community, and having split the Community will burn in hell for an aeon'?" "Yes, great king, the Truth Finder knew 'Devadatta after going forth will split the Community, and having split the Community will burn in hell for an aeon'." "If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Buddha knew 'Devadatta after going forth will split the Community, and having split the Community will burn in hell for an aeon', then, Venerable Nāgasena, the statement that the Buddha is compassionate, having tender concern, seeking the welfare of all beings, removing what is harmful and establishing what is beneficial, is wrong. If he let him go forth without knowing that, then the Buddha is not omniscient. This dilemma with two points has come to you. Disentangle this great tangle, destroy the doctrine of others. In the future time monks with wisdom like you will be hard to find, show your strength here."

"Great king, the Blessed One is both compassionate and omniscient. Great king, when the Blessed One, with compassion and omniscient knowledge, examined Devadatta's destination, he saw Devadatta, having accumulated actions leading to the planes of misery, going from hell to hell, from perdition to perdition for many hundreds of thousands of millions of aeons. Having known this through omniscient knowledge, the Blessed One thought 'This boundless action of his will become bounded when gone forth in my Dispensation, his suffering will become bounded in comparison with before. Even if not gone forth this foolish person will accumulate action lasting an aeon.' Thus with compassion he let Devadatta go forth."

"Then, Venerable Nāgasena, the Buddha beats and anoints with oil, throws down a cliff and gives a hand, kills and seeks life, in that he first gives suffering and afterwards establishes happiness?" "Great king, the Truth Finder strikes for the welfare of beings, throws down for the welfare of beings, kills for the welfare of beings, and having struck, great king, the Truth Finder brings about only the welfare of beings, having thrown down, brings about only the welfare of beings, having killed, brings about only the welfare of beings. Just as, great king, mother and father having struck and having thrown down bring about only the welfare of their children, even so, great king, the Truth Finder strikes for the welfare of beings, throws down for the welfare of beings, kills for the welfare of beings, and having struck, great king, the Truth Finder brings about only the welfare of beings, having thrown down, brings about only the welfare of beings, having killed, brings about only the welfare of beings, by whatever means there is growth in virtue for beings, by that means he brings about only the welfare of all beings. If, great king, Devadatta had not gone forth, being a householder and having done much evil action leading to hell, going from hell to hell, from perdition to perdition for many hundreds of thousands of millions of aeons, he would have experienced much suffering. The Blessed One knowing this, out of compassion let Devadatta go forth, thinking 'For one gone forth in my Teaching the suffering will be bounded', through compassion he made heavy suffering light.

"Or just as, great king, a powerful person through the power of wealth, fame, fortune and relatives, by his own great trustworthiness and capability makes light a heavy punishment imposed by the king on his relative or friend, even so, great king, the Blessed One having let Devadatta, who would have experienced suffering for many hundreds of thousands of millions of aeons, go forth, through the capability of the power of virtue, concentration, wisdom and liberation made heavy suffering light.

"Moreover, great king, just as a skilled physician and surgeon makes a serious illness light through the power of strong medicine, even so, great king, the Blessed One knowing the illness, through the power of compassion and the power of the firm medicine of the Teaching, having let Devadatta, who would have experienced suffering for many hundreds of thousands of millions of aeons, go forth, made heavy suffering light. "But great king, would the Blessed One incur any demerit by making Devadatta who was to experience much feeling experience little feeling?" "Not any demerit, Venerable Sir, not even for a mere moment of milking a cow." "Accept this reason too, great king, for which reason the Blessed One ordained Devadatta.

"Great king, hear another further reason for which reason the Blessed One ordained Devadatta. Just as, great king, if they were to catch a thief, a criminal, and show him to the king, saying 'Your majesty, this is a thief, a criminal; impose on him whatever punishment you wish.' Then the king would say thus 'In that case, I say, take this thief outside the city and cut off his head at the execution ground', and responding 'Yes, your majesty' to the king, they would take him outside the city to the execution ground. Then some person who had received a boon from the king, who had received fame, wealth and fortune, whose word carried weight, who could get what he wanted done, might see him, and having compassion for him would say thus to those men 'Enough, sirs, what is the use of cutting off his head? In that case, sirs, cut off his hand or foot and save his life, I will speak to the king on his behalf.' They, by the word of that powerful person, would cut off that thief's hand or foot and save his life. Would that person doing thus, great king, be doing what should be done for that thief?" "Venerable Sir, that person is a life-giver to that thief, when life is given what is there that has not been done for him?" "But would he incur any demerit through that feeling of the cutting off of hand and foot?" "Venerable Sir, that thief experiences painful feeling through his own doing, but the life-giving person would not incur any demerit." "Even so, great king, the Blessed One out of compassion let Devadatta go forth, thinking 'For one gone forth in my Teaching the suffering will be bounded'. And, great king, Devadatta's suffering was bounded, at the time of death Devadatta -

He went for refuge for life. Devadatta, great king, when the aeon was divided into six parts, in the first part split the Community, having been cooked in hell for five parts, being released from there, he will become a privately enlightened one named Aṭṭhissara. But great king, would the Blessed One doing thus be doing what should be done for Devadatta?" "The Truth Finder, Venerable Nāgasena, is an all-giver to Devadatta, when the Truth Finder will lead Devadatta to private enlightenment, what is there that has not been done by the Truth Finder for Devadatta?" "But great king, when Devadatta, having split the Community, experiences painful feeling in hell, would the Blessed One incur any demerit on that account?" "No, Venerable Sir, through his own doing Devadatta is cooked in hell for an aeon, the Teacher who makes an end to suffering does not incur any demerit." Accept this reason too, great king, for which reason the Blessed One ordained Devadatta.

"Great king, hear another further reason for which reason the Blessed One ordained Devadatta. Just as, great king, a skilled physician and surgeon treating a wound that is infected, foul-smelling, with an arrow inside, hollow, filled with pus and blood, caused by wind, bile, phlegm, their combination, change of season, careless behaviour, or exertion, applies harsh, sharp, caustic and pungent medicine to the wound's opening for ripening, and when ripened and become soft cuts it with a knife, cauterizes it with a probe, applies salt and acid, applies medicine for healing the wound for the patient's well-being, would that physician and surgeon, great king, apply medicine, cut with a knife, cauterize with a probe, apply salt and acid with a harmful intention? "No, Venerable Sir, he does those actions with a beneficial intention, desiring well-being." "But would that physician and surgeon incur any demerit on account of the painful feeling that arose through his medical treatment?" "Venerable Sir, the physician and surgeon does those actions with a beneficial intention, desiring well-being, why would he incur any demerit on that account? That physician and surgeon, Venerable Sir, is heaven-bound." Even so, great king, out of compassion the Blessed One ordained Devadatta for release from suffering.

"Great king, hear another further reason for which reason the Blessed One ordained Devadatta. "Just as, great king, if a person were pierced by a thorn, then another person desiring his welfare, desiring his well-being, would extract that thorn with a sharp thorn or with the edge of a knife, cutting all around with blood flowing, would that person, great king, extract that thorn with harmful intention?" "No, Venerable Sir, that person extracts the thorn desiring welfare, desiring well-being. If, Venerable Sir, he would not extract that thorn, he would meet death or deadly suffering because of it." "Even so, great king, the Truth Finder out of compassion let Devadatta go forth for release from suffering. If, great king, the Blessed One had not let Devadatta go forth, Devadatta would have been cooked in hell through the succession of existence for even a hundred thousand million aeons."

"Venerable Nāgasena, the Truth Finder led Devadatta who was going with the stream against the stream, established Devadatta who had taken the wrong path on the path, gave support to Devadatta who had fallen into the abyss, the Truth Finder raised Devadatta who had gone to the unrighteous to the righteous. And these reasons and these causes, Venerable Nāgasena, cannot be shown by another except by one wise like you."

The Question about Devadatta's Going Forth is the third.

4.

The Question About the Earth Shaking

4. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One - 'There are these eight reasons, monks, eight conditions for the manifestation of a great earthquake.' This is a complete statement, this is a statement without remainder, this is a literal statement, there is no other ninth reason for the manifestation of a great earthquake. If, Venerable Nāgasena, there were another ninth reason for the manifestation of a great earthquake, the Blessed One would have spoken of that reason too. But because, Venerable Nāgasena, there is no other ninth reason for the manifestation of a great earthquake, therefore it was not mentioned by the Blessed One, and this ninth reason is seen for the manifestation of a great earthquake, that when King Vessantara was giving the great gift, the great earth shook seven times. If, Venerable Nāgasena, there are only eight reasons, eight conditions for the manifestation of a great earthquake, then the statement that when King Vessantara was giving the great gift, the great earth shook seven times, is wrong. If when King Vessantara was giving the great gift, the great earth shook seven times, then that statement that there are only eight reasons, eight conditions for the manifestation of a great earthquake is also wrong. This dilemma with two points is subtle, hard to unravel, causing blindness and profound, it has come to you, it cannot be solved by another of little wisdom except by one wise like you."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One - 'There are these eight reasons, monks, eight conditions for the manifestation of a great earthquake.' When King Vessantara was giving the great gift, the great earth shook seven times, and moreover that was immediate, occasional, separate from the eight reasons, therefore it was not counted among the eight reasons.

"Just as, great king, in the world only three clouds are counted: the summer cloud, the winter cloud, and the rainy season cloud. If after releasing them another cloud rains, that cloud is not counted among the accepted clouds, it is simply reckoned as 'an untimely cloud'. Even so, great king, when King Vessantara was giving the great gift, that the great earth shook seven times was immediate, occasional, separate from the eight reasons, it is not counted among the eight reasons.

"Moreover, great king, from the Himalayan mountains five hundred rivers flow, of those five hundred rivers, great king, only ten rivers are counted in the reckoning of rivers. That is: the Ganges, Yamuna, Aciravatī, Sarabhū, Mahī, Sindhu, Sarassatī, Vetravatī, Vītaṃsā, and Candabhāgā, the remaining rivers are not counted in the reckoning of rivers. For what reason? Those rivers do not have stable water. Even so, great king, when King Vessantara was giving the great gift, that the great earth shook seven times was immediate, occasional, separate from the eight reasons, it is not counted among the eight reasons.

"Moreover, great king, a king might have a hundred, two hundred, or three hundred ministers, of those only six persons are counted in the reckoning of ministers. That is: general, high priest, judge, treasurer, sunshade bearer, sword bearer. Only these are counted in the reckoning of ministers. For what reason? Because they are endowed with royal qualities, the rest are not counted, they all are simply reckoned as 'ministers'. Even so, great king, when King Vessantara was giving the great gift, that the great earth shook seven times was immediate, occasional, separate from the eight reasons, it is not counted among the eight reasons.

"But great king, is it heard now in the Conqueror's Dispensation the action to be experienced as happiness in this very life by those who have done meritorious deeds, and whose fame has risen high among deities and human beings?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, it is heard now in the Conqueror's Dispensation the action to be experienced as happiness in this very life by those who have done meritorious deeds, and whose fame has risen high among deities and human beings, seven persons." "And who are they, great king?" "Sumana the gardener, Venerable Sir, the brahmin with one cloth, Puṇṇa the servant, Queen Mallikā, Queen Gopālamātā, the female lay follower Suppiyā, and the slave woman Puṇṇā - these seven beings experience happiness in this very life, and their fame has risen high among deities and human beings."

"Is it heard that there were others in the past who went to the realm of the Thirty-three with just their human body?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, it is heard." "And who are they, great king?" "These four persons are heard of: Guttila the deity, King Sādhīna, King Nimi, and King Mandhātā; they went to the realm of the Thirty-three with just their human body." "Is it heard that good and bad deeds done long ago? Have you heard before, great king, in the past time or in the present time, that when such and such a person was giving a gift, the great earth shook once or twice or thrice?" "No, Venerable Sir." "I have, great king, learning, achievement, mastery, hearing, power of training, desire to learn, questioning, and attendance on teachers, but I too have not heard before that 'when such and such a person was giving a gift, the great earth shook once or twice or thrice', except for the supreme gift of King Vessantara, the bull among kings. Great king, between the Blessed One Kassapa and the Blessed One Sakyamuni, millions of years beyond counting have passed, and even there I have no hearing that 'when such and such a person was giving a gift, the great earth shook once or twice or thrice'. Not by such energy, great king, not by such exertion does the great earth shake; the great earth, great king, being full with the weight of virtues, being full with the weight of all virtuous deeds, unable to bear it, moves, shakes, trembles.

"Just as, great king, when a cart is overfull with weight, the hubs and rims split and the axle breaks, even so, great king, the great earth being full with the weight of all virtuous deeds, unable to bear it, moves, shakes, trembles.

"Moreover, great king, just as the sky covered by the force of wind and water, being full with the weight of abundant water, because of being split by excessive wind, roars, thunders and rumbles, even so, great king, the great earth being full with the abundant weight of the power of King Vessantara's giving, unable to bear it, moves, shakes, trembles." No, great king, King Vessantara's mind does not proceed under the influence of lust, does not proceed under the influence of hatred, does not proceed under the influence of delusion, does not proceed under the influence of conceit, does not proceed under the influence of views, does not proceed under the influence of defilements, does not proceed under the influence of thought, does not proceed under the influence of discontent, but rather proceeds abundantly under the influence of giving, thinking: 'How might those supplicants who have not come, come to me, and those supplicants who have come be satisfied, obtaining what they wish?' His mind is constantly established in giving. Great king, King Vessantara's mind is constantly established in ten states: in self-control, in righteousness, in patience, in restraint, in observance, in fixed course, in non-anger, in harmlessness, in truth, in purity. Great king, King Vessantara has abandoned the search for sensual pleasure, has stilled the search for existence, and is devoted only to the search for the holy life. Great king, King Vessantara has abandoned self-protection and is devoted to the protection of all beings; his mind proceeds abundantly thinking: 'How might these beings be in concord, healthy, wealthy and long-lived?' And when giving, great king, King Vessantara does not give that gift for the sake of success in existence, not for the sake of wealth, not for the sake of return gifts, not for the sake of flattery, not for the sake of life, not for the sake of beauty, not for the sake of happiness, not for the sake of strength, not for the sake of fame, not for the sake of sons, not for the sake of daughters, but rather for the sake of omniscient knowledge, for the cause of the jewel of omniscient knowledge he gave such an incomparable, vast, unsurpassed excellent gift, and having attained omniscience he spoke this verse:

"Great king, King Vessantara conquers anger with non-anger, the bad with the good, the miserly with giving, the speaker of falsehood with truth, all that is unwholesome with what is wholesome. As he was giving thus, following the Teaching, having the Teaching as his head, through the force and result of giving, through the extensive and vast energy, below the great winds stir, blowing gently again and again in confusion, bending down, rising up, bending aside, trees with broken leaves and stems fall, masses of clouds race across the sky, dust-filled winds become fierce, winds press upon the sky blow, suddenly make a rushing sound, a terrifying noise issues forth, when those winds are agitated the water moves gently, when the water moves the fish and turtles are disturbed, waves arise in pairs, aquatic beings are frightened, the water-waves roll in succession, the sound of waves proceeds, terrible bubbles arise, there are lines of foam, the great ocean overflows, water runs in all directions, streams of water flow upstream and downstream, titans, divine birds, dragons and spirits are frightened, they are alarmed thinking 'What is this? How is it that the ocean is turning over?', with frightened minds they seek a path to escape, when the streams of water are disturbed and agitated the great earth with its mountains and oceans shakes, Mount Sineru's peak turns and bends, snakes, mongooses, cats, jackals, pigs, deer and birds are distressed, uninfluential spirits weep, influential spirits laugh when the great earth is shaking.

"Just as, great king, when in a great cauldron placed on a stove, full of water, filled with rice, the fire burning below first heats the cauldron, the heated cauldron heats the water, the heated water heats the rice, the heated rice rises and sinks, bubbles are produced, foam overflows; Even so, great king, King Vessantara gave up what is hard to give up in the world, and when he was giving up that which is hard to give up, due to the natural result of that giving, the great winds below being unable to bear it became agitated, when the great winds became agitated the water shook, when the water shook the great earth shook, thus then the great winds and the water and the great earth - these three were as if of one mind through the result of the great giving with vast power and energy, there is no such power of giving of another, great king, as the power of King Vessantara's great giving. Just as, great king, there are many kinds of gems in the earth. That is: sapphire, great sapphire, cat's eye, beryl, opal, siris-flower gem, heart-stealer, sun-loved, moon-loved, diamond, firefly-gem, topaz, ruby, coral - surpassing all these the wheel-turning monarch's gem is declared supreme, the wheel-turning monarch's gem, great king, illuminates for a yojana all around. Even so, great king, whatever giving exists in the earth even the incomparable supreme giving, surpassing all that, King Vessantara's great giving is declared supreme, when King Vessantara's great giving was being given, great king, the great earth shook seven times."

"Wonderful, Venerable Nāgasena, of the Buddhas, marvellous, Venerable Nāgasena, of the Buddhas, that the Truth Finder while being a bodhisatta was unequalled in the world, of such conviction, of such mind, of such disposition, of such resolve, Venerable Nāgasena, the exertion of bodhisattas has been shown, and the perfection of the Victorious Ones has been further illuminated, even while practising the conduct, the supremacy of the Truth Finder in the world with its deities has been demonstrated. "Good, Venerable Nāgasena, the Conqueror's Dispensation has been praised, the Conqueror's perfection has been illuminated, the knot of the sectarians' doctrine has been cut, the pot of others' doctrines has been broken, the profound question has been made clear, the thicket has been made into no thicket, the sons of the Conqueror have obtained right deliverance, thus we accept it, foremost among the excellent teachers."

The Question about the Earth Shaking, fourth.

5.

The Question About King Sivi's Gift of Eyes

5. "Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'King Sivi gave his eyes to a beggar, and when he was blind the divine eye arose again', this statement too is faulty, has a refutation, has a flaw, for it is said in the text 'when there is uprooting of cause, when there is no cause, no basis, there is no arising of the divine eye', if, Venerable Nāgasena, King Sivi gave his eyes to the beggar, then the statement that 'the divine eye arose again' is wrong; if the divine eye arose, then the statement that 'King Sivi gave his eyes to the beggar' is also wrong. This dilemma with two points is more knotted than a knot, more entangled than an entanglement, more thicketed than a thicket, it has come to you, generate desire here for the deliverance and refutation of other doctrines."

"Great king, King Sivi gave his eyes to the beggar, do not raise uncertainty about that, and the divine eye arose again, do not generate uncertainty about that either." "But Venerable Nāgasena, does the divine eye arise when there is uprooting of cause, when there is no cause, no basis?" "No, great king." "But what, Venerable Sir, is the reason here, for what reason does the divine eye arise when there is uprooting of cause, when there is no cause, no basis? Come now, convince me with a reason."

"But great king, is there what is called truth in the world, by which truth-speakers perform an act of truth?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, there is what is called truth in the world. By truth, Venerable Nāgasena, truth-speakers having performed an act of truth make the deity rain, extinguish fire, counteract poison, and do various other things that should be done." "Then, great king, it fits, it agrees that by the power of truth divine eyes arose for King Sivi. By the power of truth, great king, the divine eye arises when there is no basis, truth itself becomes the basis there for the arising of the divine eye.

"Just as, great king, whatever beings chant the truth 'Let the great cloud rain', with their chanting of truth the great cloud rains. But great king, is there a cause for rain accumulated in space 'by which cause the great cloud rains'?" "No, Venerable Sir, truth itself becomes the cause there for the raining of the great cloud." "Even so, great king, there is no natural cause for it, truth itself becomes the basis there for the arising of the divine eye."

"Moreover, great king, whatever beings chant the truth 'Let the blazing, flaming great mass of fire turn back', with their chanting of truth the blazing, flaming great mass of fire turns back in a moment. "But great king, is there a cause accumulated in that blazing, flaming great mass of fire 'by which cause the blazing, flaming great mass of fire turns back in a moment'?" "No, Venerable Sir, truth itself becomes the basis there for the turning back in a moment of that blazing, flaming great mass of fire." "Even so, great king, there is no natural cause for it, truth itself becomes the basis there for the arising of the divine eye."

"Moreover, great king, whatever beings chant the truth 'Let the deadly halāhala poison become medicine'." With their chanting of truth the deadly hālāhala poison in a moment becomes medicine. But great king, is there a cause accumulated in that hālāhala poison 'by which cause the hālāhala poison in a moment becomes medicine'?" "No, Venerable Sir, truth itself becomes the cause there for counteracting the hālāhala poison in a moment." "Even so, great king, without a natural cause, truth itself becomes the basis there for the arising of the divine eye.

"For penetrating the four noble truths too, great king, there is no other basis, making truth the basis they penetrate the four noble truths." "There is, great king, in the country of China a king of China who, wishing to play in the great ocean, having made an act of truth every four months, enters a yojana into the great ocean together with his chariot, the great mass of water recedes before the front of his chariot, and when he has come out it flows back again. But great king, would that great ocean be able to be made to recede by the natural bodily strength of the world including deities and human beings?" "Venerable Sir, even in a very small pond the water would not be able to be made to recede by the natural bodily strength of the world including deities and human beings, how much less the water in the great ocean." "For this reason too, great king, the power of truth should be known: 'There is no state that cannot be attained by truth.'"

"In the city of Pāṭaliputta, great king, King Asoka the righteous, surrounded by townspeople, country people, ministers, soldiers, high officials and great ministers, seeing the river Ganges full of fresh water, brimming, overflowing, five hundred yojanas in length, a yojana in width, flowing, spoke thus to the ministers: 'Is there anyone, sirs, who is able to make this great Ganges flow upstream?'" The ministers said: "It is difficult, your majesty."

A courtesan named Bandhumatī, standing on that very bank of the Ganges, heard that the king had spoken thus: "Is it possible to make this great Ganges flow upstream?" She said: "I am a courtesan in the city of Pāṭaliputta, living by my looks, making a lowly living. Let the king now see my act of truth." Then she made an act of truth, and with her act of truth in that moment, that great Ganges flowed upstream with a roar, as the great crowd watched.

Then the king, hearing the thunderous sound produced by the force of the whirlpool waves of the Ganges, amazed and astonished, spoke thus to the ministers: "Why, sirs, does this great Ganges flow upstream?" 'Bandhumatī the courtesan, great king, having heard your words, made an act of truth, and by her act of truth the great Ganges flowed upstream.'

"Then the king, with agitated heart, quickly went himself and asked that courtesan: 'Is it true, girl, that by your act of truth you made this Ganges flow upstream?' 'Yes, your majesty.' The king said: 'What power do you have in this, or who heeds your words without being mad? By what power did you make this great Ganges flow upstream?' She said: 'By the power of truth, great king, I made this great Ganges flow upstream.' The king said: 'What truth-power do you have, being a thief, a mixer, unmindful, a loose woman, evil, of broken virtue, transgressing shame, deceiving the blind people?' 'It is true, great king, I am such a one, but even being such, great king, I have an act of truth by which, if I wished, I could turn even the world with its deities.' The king said: 'What then is that act of truth? Come, tell me.' 'Great king, whether one who gives me money is a noble, a brahmin, a merchant, a worker, or anyone else, I serve them all equally. There is no distinction of "noble", no looking down as "worker". Free from attraction and aversion, I attend to the owner of wealth. This, your majesty, is my act of truth by which I made this great Ganges flow upstream.'

"Thus too, great king, those established in truth do not find any benefit in nothing. Great king, King Sivi gave his eyes to the beggar, and the divine eye arose, and that through an act of truth. What is said in the text 'when the physical eye is lost, when there is no cause, no basis, there is no arising of the divine eye'. That was said with reference to the eye developed through meditation, remember this thus, great king." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, the question is well unravelled, the refutation well shown, other doctrines well crushed, thus we accept it."

The Question about King Sivi's Gift of Eyes, the fifth.

6.

Question About Descent into the Womb

6. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One: 'Monks, there are three conditions for the descent into the womb. Here, when the mother and father come together, and the mother is in season, and a gandhabba is present, with these three conditions met, there is descent into the womb.' This is a complete statement, a perfect statement, a categorical statement, a statement of the Worthy One, spoken while seated among deities and humans. Yet there is seen a descent into the womb with two conditions met, when the ascetic Dukūla touched the navel of the ascetic woman Pārikā with his right thumb when she was in season, and through that touching of the navel, Prince Sāma was born. Also when the sage Mātaṅga touched the navel of a brahmin girl with his right thumb when she was in season, through that touching of the navel, the youth named Maṇḍabya was born. If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Blessed One said: 'Monks, there are three conditions for the descent into the womb.' Then the statement that both Prince Sāma and the youth Maṇḍabya were born through the touching of the navel is wrong. If, Venerable Sir, the Truth Finder said: 'Prince Sāma and the youth Maṇḍabya were born through the touching of the navel', then the statement 'Monks, there are three conditions for the descent into the womb' is also wrong. This dilemma with two points is very profound, very subtle, within the domain of the wise, it has come to you. Cut through the path of uncertainty, hold up the lamp of supreme knowledge."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'Monks, there are three conditions for the descent into the womb. Here, when the mother and father come together, and the mother is in season, and a gandhabba is present, with these three conditions met, there is descent into the womb.' And it was said: 'Prince Sāma and the youth Maṇḍabya were born through the touching of the navel.' "Then, Venerable Nāgasena, convince me with the reason by which the question is well decided."

"Have you heard before, great king, that Prince Saṃkicca and the ascetic Isisinga and the Elder Kumārakassapa 'were born by such and such means'?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, it is heard, their birth was well known, two doe deer at their fertile time came to the urinating place of two ascetics and drank the urine with semen, by that urine with semen Prince Saṃkicca and the ascetic Isisinga were born. When the Elder Udāyi went to the nuns' quarters with lustful mind gazing at a nun's genitals, semen was released on his robe. Then the Venerable Udāyi said this to that nun: 'Go sister, bring water, I will wash the inner robe.' 'Bring it, Venerable Sir, I myself will wash it.' Then that nun at her fertile time took one part of that semen in her mouth, put one part in her genitals, by that the Elder Kumārakassapa was born, so people say."

"But do you, great king, believe that statement?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, we find a strong reason there, by which reason we believe 'they were born through this cause'." "What, great king, is the reason here?" "Venerable Sir, when a seed falls on well-prepared soil, it quickly germinates." "Yes, great king." "Even so, Venerable Sir, that nun being in season, when the blood had settled and coagulated and the element had become stable, taking that being, placed it in that coagulated matter, thus her pregnancy was established, in this way we accept the reason for their birth." "So it is, great king, I accept that a pregnancy occurs through entering a womb. But do you accept, great king, the descent into the womb of the elder Kumārakassapa?" "Yes, Venerable Sir." "Good, great king, you have come back to my domain, speaking of even one type of descent into the womb you will support my position, but those two doe deer who conceived after drinking urine, do you believe in their descent into the womb?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, whatever is eaten, drunk, chewed, or licked, all that flows to the coagulated matter and, having reached its place, undergoes growth. Just as, Venerable Nāgasena, whatever rivers there are, all flow into the great ocean and, having reached their place, undergo growth. Even so, Venerable Nāgasena, whatever is eaten, drunk, chewed, or licked, all that flows to the coagulated matter and, having reached its place, undergoes growth, for this reason I believe there can be descent into the womb through the mouth." "Good, great king, you have come even more firmly into my domain, through drinking by mouth too there is a coming together of two. Do you accept, great king, the descent into the womb of the youth Saṃkicca, the ascetic Isisinga, and the elder Kumārakassapa?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, the coming together flows in."

"Prince Sāma too, great king, and the youth Maṇḍabya are included in the three conditions, they are of the same nature as the former, I will explain the reason there. The ascetic Dukūla and the ascetic woman Pārikā were both forest dwellers, disposed to solitude, seeking the highest good, and by the power of their austerity they blazed up to the brahmā world. At that time Sakka, lord of deities, came morning and evening to attend upon them. Out of deep loving-kindness towards them, he observed and saw the future disappearance of both their eyes, and having seen this he said to them: "Venerable ones, do one thing for me. Please generate one son; he will be your attendant and support." "Enough, Kosiya, do not speak thus." They did not accept those words of his. Sakka, lord of deities, compassionate and wishing their good, for the second time...etc... For the third time said to them: "Venerable ones, do one thing for me. Please generate one son; he will be your attendant and support." For the third time they said: "Enough, Kosiya, do not urge us towards what is harmful. When will this body not break up? Let this body break up, for it is subject to breaking up. Even if the earth splits, even if the mountain peak falls, even if space falls, even if the sun and moon fall, we will never mix with worldly conditions. Do not come into our presence. This trust of yours in coming is misplaced. We think you are acting harmfully."

Then Sakka, lord of deities, not gaining their consent, respected, with joined palms, begged again: "If you are not willing to do as I say, then, Venerable Sir, when the ascetic woman is in season and flowering, touch her navel with your right thumb. By that she will receive a conception. This indeed is a coming together for descent into the womb." 'I can, Kosiya, do that word, our austerity is not broken by that much, let it be,' they agreed. At that time in the deity realm there was a young deity with abundant wholesome roots, with life exhausted, having reached the end of life, able to enter at will even into a wheel-turning monarch's family. Then Sakka, lord of deities, approached that young deity and said thus: 'Come, friend, your day has dawned auspiciously, success has come to you, for which I have come to attend upon you, your dwelling will be in a delightful place, there will be rebirth in a suitable family, you will be nurtured by beautiful parents, come, do my word,' he requested. For the second time...etc... For the third time he requested with palms joined at his head.

Then that young deity said thus: 'Which, friend, is that family, which you repeatedly praise again and again?' 'The ascetic Dukūla and the ascetic woman Pārikā.' Having heard his words, pleased he agreed: 'Very well, friend, let it be as you wish. I am willing, friend, to arise in a desired family. In which mode of generation shall I arise - egg-born, womb-born, moisture-born, or spontaneously reborn?' 'Arise, friend, in the womb-born mode of generation.' Then Sakka, lord of deities, having calculated the day of birth, informed the ascetic Dukūla: 'On such and such a day the ascetic woman will be in season and flowering. Then, Venerable Sir, you should touch her navel with your right thumb.' On that day, great king, the ascetic woman was in season and flowering, and the young deity had come there and was present, and the ascetic touched the navel of the ascetic woman with his right thumb. Thus these three conditions were met. Through the touching of the navel, lust arose in the ascetic woman. But do not think that her lust dependent on the touching of the navel was misconduct. Even a sigh is a coming together, even a call is a coming together, even gazing is a coming together. From the preliminary stage, for the arising of lust, a coming together occurs through touching, from the coming together there is descent.

'Even without misconduct, great king, there is descent into the womb through touching. Just as, great king, a burning fire even without touching removes the cold of one who has come near, even so, great king, even without misconduct, there is descent into the womb through touching.

"Through four powers, great king, there is descent of beings into the womb: through the power of action, through the power of mode of generation, through the power of family, through the power of aspiration, but all these beings originate from action, arise from action.

"How, great king, is there descent of beings into the womb through the power of action? Beings with abundant wholesome roots, great king, arise wherever they wish, whether in a family of wealthy nobles, or wealthy brahmins, or wealthy householders, or among deities, or in an egg-born mode of generation, or womb-born mode of generation, or moisture-born mode of generation, or spontaneously reborn mode of generation. Just as, great king, a person who is rich, of great wealth, of great property, abundant in gold and silver, abundant in resources and possessions, abundant in wealth and grain, abundant in relatives and allies, whatever he desires in his mind, whether a female slave or male slave, or field, or land, or village, or town, or country, he buys wherever he wishes by giving two or three times the wealth, even so, great king, beings with abundant wholesome roots arise wherever they wish, whether in a family of wealthy nobles, or wealthy brahmins, or wealthy householders, or among deities, or in an egg-born mode of generation, or womb-born mode of generation, or moisture-born mode of generation, or spontaneously reborn mode of generation. Thus there is descent of beings into the womb through the power of action.

"How is there descent of beings into the womb through the power of mode of generation? Great king, there is descent into the womb of chickens through wind. There is descent into the womb of cranes through the sound of thunder. All deities are beings without lying in a womb, there is descent into the womb for them through various kinds of beauty. Just as, great king, human beings walk on the earth in various kinds of beauty, some covering the front, some covering the back, some are naked, some are shaven wearing white cloth, some have their hair in a topknot, some are shaven wearing ochre robes, some wear ochre robes with their hair in a topknot, some have matted hair wearing bark garments, some wear leather garments, some wear reins as clothing, all these human beings walk on the earth in various kinds of beauty, even so, great king, they are all beings, there is descent into the womb for them through various kinds of beauty. Thus there is descent of beings into the womb through the power of mode of generation.

"How is there descent of beings into the womb through the power of family? Family, great king, means four families: egg-born, womb-born, moisture-born and spontaneously reborn. If a gandhabba coming from anywhere arises in an egg-born family, it becomes egg-born there...etc... in a womb-born family...etc... in a moisture-born family...etc... arises in a spontaneously reborn family, it becomes spontaneously reborn there. In those respective families such beings come to be. Just as, great king, whatever beasts and birds approach Mount Neru in the Himalayas, all of them abandoning their natural colour become golden-coloured, even so, great king, whatever gandhabba coming from anywhere, having approached an egg-born mode of generation, abandoning its natural colour becomes egg-born...etc... womb-born...etc... moisture-born...etc... having approached a spontaneously reborn mode of generation, abandoning its natural colour becomes spontaneously reborn, thus there is descent into the womb for beings through the power of family.

"How is there descent into the womb for beings through the power of aspiration? Here, great king, a family is childless, with much wealth, faithful, devoted, virtuous, of good Teaching, based upon austerity, and a young deity with abundant wholesome roots is subject to passing away. Then Sakka, lord of deities, out of compassion for that family requests that young deity: 'Friend, set your wish on the womb of the wife of such and such a family.' Because of that request, he sets his wish on that family. Just as, great king, people desiring merit having requested a recluse who is worthy of esteem lead him to their house, thinking 'This one having come will bring happiness to the whole family.' Even so, great king, Sakka, lord of deities, having requested that young deity leads him to that family. Thus there is descent into the womb for beings through the power of aspiration.

"Prince Sāma, great king, was requested by Sakka, lord of deities, and descended into the womb of the ascetic woman Pārikā. Prince Sāma, great king, had done meritorious deeds, his parents were virtuous with good qualities, Sakka was the petitioner, Prince Sāma was born through the mental resolution of three. Here, great king, if a person skilled in method were to plant a seed in well-ploughed, suitable ground, would there be any obstacle to the growth of that seed if he were to avoid obstacles?" "No, Venerable Sir, an unobstructed seed would quickly grow." Even so, great king, Prince Sāma, free from arisen obstacles, was born through the mental resolution of three.

"But great king, have you heard before of a prosperous, flourishing great country with its people being completely destroyed through the mental corruption of seers?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, it is heard. The Daṇḍakī forest, the Majjha forest, the Kāliṅga forest, the Mātaṅga forest, all that forest became wilderness, all these countries were destroyed through the mental corruption of seers." "If, great king, through their mental corruption well-established countries were destroyed, would anything come to be through their mental confidence?" "Yes, Venerable Sir." "Then, great king, Prince Sāma was born through the mental confidence of three powerful ones, created by seers, created by deities, created by merit. Remember this thus, great king.

"These three young deities, great king, requested by Sakka, lord of deities, were born into a family. Which three? Prince Sāma, Mahāpanāda, and King Kusa, these three were future Buddhas." "Well explained, Venerable Nāgasena, is the descent into the womb, well spoken is the reason, darkness has been made light, the tangle has been untangled, other doctrines have been refuted, thus we accept it."

The Question about Descent into the Womb is sixth.

7.

Question About the Disappearance of the True Teaching

7. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One: 'Now, Ānanda, the true Teaching will remain for only five hundred years.' And again at the time of final Nibbāna, when questioned by the wanderer Subhadda, the Blessed One said: 'And, Subhadda, if these monks were to live rightly, the world would not be empty of Arahants.' This is a complete statement, a perfect statement, a categorical statement. If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Truth Finder said: 'Now, Ānanda, the true Teaching will remain for only five hundred years', then the statement 'the world would not be empty of Arahants' is wrong. If the Truth Finder said: 'the world would not be empty of Arahants', then that statement 'Now, Ānanda, the true Teaching will remain for only five hundred years' is also wrong. This dilemma with two points is more thicketed than a thicket, more powerful than the powerful, more knotted than a knot, it has come to you, show here the expansion of your power of knowledge like a sea monster in the midst of the ocean."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'Now, Ānanda, the true Teaching will remain for only five hundred years.' And at the time of final Nibbāna it was said to the wanderer Subhadda: 'And, Subhadda, if these monks were to live rightly, the world would not be empty of Arahants.' But that statement of the Blessed One, great king, has different meaning and different phrasing, this is the limitation of the Teaching, this is the illumination of practice - these two are far separated from each other. Just as, great king, the sky is far separated from the earth, hell is far separated from heaven, wholesome is far separated from unwholesome, happiness is far separated from suffering. Even so, great king, these two are far separated from each other.

"However, great king, let not your question be in vain, I will explain it to you in essence: when the Blessed One said 'Now, Ānanda, the true Teaching will remain for only five hundred years', declaring its destruction he limited what remained, saying 'The true Teaching, Ānanda, would remain for a thousand years if they had not let nuns go forth.' Now, Ānanda, the true Teaching will remain for only five hundred years. "But great king, when the Blessed One spoke thus, did he speak of the disappearance of the true Teaching or deny breakthrough?" "No, Venerable Sir." Declaring what was lost, he limited what remained. Just as, great king, a person who has lost something, taking all that remains would explain to people 'This much of my goods is lost, this is what remains.' Even so, great king, the Blessed One declaring what was lost told deities and human beings what remained: 'Now, Ānanda, the true Teaching will remain for only five hundred years.' But great king, what was spoken by the Blessed One: 'Now, Ānanda, the true Teaching will remain for only five hundred years', that is the limitation of the Dispensation.

"But what he said at the time of final Nibbāna to the wanderer Subhadda, declaring about recluses: 'And, Subhadda, if these monks were to live rightly, the world would not be empty of Arahants', that is an explanation of practice, but you make that limitation and explanation into one essence. If you have the desire, I will speak making it one taste, listen well, pay attention with an undistracted mind.

"Here, great king, there might be a lake full of fresh water, being drawn from in front, bounded, made round, and while that lake is not yet exhausted, a great cloud would rain repeatedly and continuously over the water, but great king, would the water in that lake go to utter destruction and exhaustion?" "No, Venerable Sir." "For what reason, great king?" "Because of the continuity of the cloud, Venerable Sir." "Even so, great king, the lake of the excellent true Teaching of the Conqueror's Dispensation, full of the fresh water of conduct, virtue, good qualities, observances and practice, being drawn from, stands having overcome the highest existence. If there the sons of the Buddha would make the rain cloud of conduct, virtue, good qualities, observances and practice continuously rain again and again. Thus this lake of the excellent true Teaching of the Conqueror's Dispensation would remain for a long time, the world would not be empty of Arahants, with reference to this meaning the Blessed One said: 'And, Subhadda, if these monks were to live rightly, the world would not be empty of Arahants.'

"But here, great king, when a great mass of fire is burning, if they were to bring dry grass, sticks and cow dung again and again, would that mass of fire, great king, be extinguished?" "No, Venerable Sir, that mass of fire would burn more and more, would shine more and more." Even so, great king, the excellent Teaching of the Conqueror burns and shines in the ten-thousandfold world system through conduct, virtue, good qualities, observances and practice. But if, great king, moreover the sons of the Buddha endowed with the five factors for striving, ever diligent, would strive, would train in the three trainings with arisen desire, and would completely fulfill virtuous behavior and conduct, thus this excellent Teaching of the Conqueror would remain more and more for a long time, and with reference to this meaning the Blessed One said: 'And, Subhadda, if these monks were to live rightly, the world would not be empty of Arahants.'

"But here, great king, if they were to polish again and again with fine, subtle red powder a mirror that is smooth, evenly polished, luminous and stainless, would dirt, mud and dust arise in that mirror?" "No, Venerable Sir, it would certainly become even more pure." "Even so, great king, the excellent Teaching of the Conqueror is naturally stainless, free from the stains, dust and dirt of defilements. If the sons of the Buddha were to observe the excellent Teaching of the Conqueror through conduct, virtue, good qualities, observances, practice, effacement and ascetic qualities, thus this excellent Teaching of the Conqueror would remain for a long time, and the world would not be empty of Arahants. With reference to this meaning the Blessed One said: 'And, Subhadda, if these monks were to live rightly, the world would not be empty of Arahants.' The Teacher's Teaching, great king, is rooted in practice, has practice as its cause, and remains when practice has not disappeared."

"Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'disappearance of the true Teaching', what is this disappearance of the true Teaching?" "There are these three disappearances of the Dispensation, great king. What are the three? The disappearance of achievement, the disappearance of practice, and the disappearance of symbols. When achievement has disappeared, great king, even for one practising well there is no breakthrough to the Teaching. When practice has disappeared, the description of the training rules disappears. Only the symbols remain. When the symbols have disappeared, there is a break in the lineage. These, great king, are the three disappearances."

"Well explained, Venerable Nāgasena, is this profound question, what was hidden has been revealed, the knot has been untied, the doctrines of others are lost, broken and made dim, you are the bull among the excellent teachers."

The Seventh Question about the Disappearance of the True Teaching.

8.

Question About the Cutting Off of the Unwholesome

8. "Venerable Nāgasena, did the Truth Finder attain omniscience after burning up all that is unwholesome, or did he attain omniscience while some unwholesome remained?" "Great king, the Blessed One attained omniscience after burning up all that is unwholesome, there is no remaining unwholesome for the Blessed One."

"But Venerable Sir, did painful feelings ever arise in the Truth Finder's body?" "Yes, great king, in Rājagaha the Blessed One's foot was cut by a stone splinter, the affliction of bloody dysentery arose, when the body was congested Jīvaka administered a purgative, when a wind affliction arose the elder attendant searched for hot water."

"If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Truth Finder attained omniscience after burning up all that is unwholesome, then the statement that the Blessed One's foot was cut by a stone splinter, and the affliction of bloody dysentery arose, is wrong. If the Truth Finder's foot was cut by a stone splinter, and the affliction of bloody dysentery arose, then that statement that the Truth Finder attained omniscience after burning up all that is unwholesome is also wrong. "Venerable Sir, there is no feeling without action, all that feeling has action as its root, one feels it only through action. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"No, great king, not all that feeling has action as its root. Great king, feelings arise from eight causes, due to which many beings experience feelings. Which eight? Some feelings arise here, great king, originating from wind disorders, some feelings arise here, great king, originating from bile disorders...etc... Some feelings arise here, great king, originating from phlegm disorders...etc... Some feelings arise here, great king, originating from a combination of disorders...etc... Some feelings arise here, great king, produced by change of climate...etc... Some feelings arise here, great king, produced by careless behaviour...etc... Some feelings arise here, great king, caused by exertion...etc... Some feelings arise here, great king, originating from the results of action. Great king, due to these eight causes many beings experience feelings. Therein those persons who would say 'action oppresses beings' reject these seven causes. Their statement is wrong." "Venerable Nāgasena, that which is due to wind, that which is due to bile, that which is due to phlegm, that which is due to their combination, that which is produced by change of climate, that which is produced by careless behaviour, that which is caused by exertion - all these originate only from action, all these arise only through action."

"Great king, if all these afflictions were to originate only from action, there would not be their characteristics according to their categories. Great king, when wind becomes disturbed, it becomes disturbed in ten ways: through cold, through heat, through hunger, through thirst, through overeating, through standing, through striving, through running, through exertion, and through the result of action. Among these, those nine ways do not arise in the past, future, or present existence, therefore it cannot be said that 'all feelings originate from action'. Great king, when bile becomes disturbed, it becomes disturbed in three ways: through cold, through heat, and through improper food. Great king, when phlegm becomes disturbed, it becomes disturbed in three ways: through cold, through heat, and through food and drink. Great king, that which is wind, that which is bile, and that which is phlegm, having become disturbed through these disturbances and having mixed together, each draws its own feeling. Great king, feelings born of seasonal change arise through change of season. Feelings born of improper care arise through improper care. Great king, regarding feelings due to exertion, there is action and there is result of action; feelings born of the result of action arise through action done in the past. Thus, great king, little is due to the result of action, much more is due to the rest. Therein fools rush to the extreme view that 'everything is only due to the result of action'. That action cannot be determined without the knowledge of an Enlightened One.

"But great king, when the Blessed One's foot was cut by a stone splinter, that feeling was neither wind-originated, nor bile-originated, nor phlegm-originated, nor a combination of these, nor born of seasonal change, nor born of improper care, nor born of the result of action, but due to exertion only. For Devadatta, great king, harbored resentment towards the Truth Finder for many hundreds of thousands of births, and with that resentment he took a great heavy stone thinking 'I will drop it on his head' and released it, then two other rocks came and caught that stone before it reached the Truth Finder, and by the impact of those a splinter broke off and falling on the Blessed One's foot drew blood. This feeling arose for the Blessed One either as a result of action or from a physical cause, great king, beyond that there is no other feeling.

"Just as, great king, a seed does not originate either due to defect in the field or defect in the seed. Even so, great king, this feeling arose for the Blessed One either as a result of action or from a physical cause, beyond that there is no other feeling.

"Moreover, great king, just as food becomes unrighteous either due to defect in the stomach or defect in the nutriment, even so, great king, this feeling arose for the Blessed One either as a result of action or from a physical cause, beyond that there is no other feeling. However, great king, the Blessed One has no feeling born of the result of action, no feeling born of unrighteous conduct, the Blessed One's feelings arise from the remaining sources, and by that feeling it is not possible to deprive the Blessed One of life.

Great king, in this body made of the four great elements there fall pleasant and unpleasant, beautiful and foul feelings. "Here, great king, when a clod thrown in the air falls on the great earth, but great king, does that clod fall on the great earth because of what was done before?" "No, Venerable Sir, there is no cause in the great earth by which the great earth would experience the result of wholesome or unwholesome action. Venerable Sir, that clod falls on the great earth through a present cause that is not action. Just as, great king, the great earth, so should the Truth Finder be seen. Just as the clod falls on the great earth not through what was done before, even so, great king, that splinter fell on the Truth Finder's foot not through what was done before.

"But here, great king, people break and dig the great earth, but great king, do those people break and dig the great earth because of what was done before?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Even so, great king, that splinter that fell on the Blessed One's foot did not fall on the Blessed One's foot through what was done before. And great king, that affliction of bloody diarrhoea that arose for the Blessed One did not arise through what was done before, it arose only through a disturbance of the humours. Great king, whatever bodily afflictions arose for the Blessed One were not produced by action, they arose from one or other of these six origins.

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, the deity above deities, in the excellent Connected Discourses, in the discourse to Moḷiyasīvaka -

"Some feelings arise here, Sīvaka, originating from bile disorders. This too, Sīvaka, can be known by oneself how some feelings arise here originating from bile disorders. This too, Sīvaka, is accepted as true in the world how some feelings arise here originating from bile disorders. Now, Sīvaka, when those ascetics and brahmins have such a doctrine and view: 'Whatever pleasure, pain, or neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling this person experiences, all that is due to what was done in the past.' They overreach what is personally known and they overreach what is accepted as true in the world. Therefore I say that those ascetics and brahmins are wrong.

"Some feelings arise here, Sīvaka, originating from phlegm disorders. Some feelings arise here, Sīvaka, originating from wind disorders...etc... Some feelings arise here, Sīvaka, originating from a combination of disorders...etc... Some feelings arise here, Sīvaka, produced by change of climate...etc... Some feelings arise here, Sīvaka, produced by careless behaviour...etc... Some feelings arise here, Sīvaka, caused by exertion...etc... Some feelings arise here, Sīvaka, originating from the results of action. This too, Sīvaka, can be known by oneself how some feelings arise here originating from the results of action. This too, Sīvaka, is accepted as true in the world how some feelings arise here originating from the results of action. Now, Sīvaka, when those ascetics and brahmins have such a doctrine and view: 'Whatever pleasure, pain, or neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling this person experiences, all that is due to what was done in the past.' They overreach what is personally known and they overreach what is accepted as true in the world. Therefore I say that those ascetics and brahmins are wrong."

"Thus too, great king, not all feelings originate from the results of action, remember this thus: the Blessed One attained omniscience after burning up all that is unwholesome." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Eighth Question, about the Cutting Off of the Unwholesome.

9.

Question About What Further Needs to be Done

9. "Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'whatever needs to be done by the Truth Finder, all that was completed at the root of enlightenment, there is nothing further to be done by the Truth Finder, or accumulation of what has been done', yet this three-month seclusion is seen. If, Venerable Nāgasena, whatever needs to be done by the Truth Finder, all that was completed at the root of enlightenment, there is nothing further to be done by the Truth Finder, or accumulation of what has been done, then the statement 'secluded for three months' is wrong. If he was secluded for three months, then that statement 'whatever needs to be done by the Truth Finder, all that was completed at the root of enlightenment' is also wrong. There is no seclusion for one who has done what needs to be done, seclusion is only for one who has something to be done, just as only one who is sick needs medicine, what need of medicine for one who is not sick. Only one who is hungry needs food, what need of food for one who is not hungry. Even so, Venerable Nāgasena, there is no seclusion for one who has done what needs to be done, seclusion is only for one who has something to be done. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"Whatever needs to be done by the Truth Finder, great king, all that was completed at the root of enlightenment, there is nothing further to be done by the Truth Finder, or accumulation of what has been done, and the Blessed One was secluded for three months. Seclusion, great king, has many benefits. All Truth Finders attained omniscience after being secluded, recollecting that well-done quality, they practice seclusion. Just as, great king, a person who has received a boon from the king, who has obtained wealth, remembering that well-done quality goes again and again to attend upon the king. Even so, great king, all Truth Finders attained omniscience after being secluded, recollecting that well-done quality, they practice seclusion.

Moreover, great king, just as a person who is sick, suffering, gravely ill, having attended upon a physician and attained well-being, remembering that well-done quality attends upon the physician again and again. Even so, great king, all Truth Finders attained omniscience after being secluded, recollecting that well-done quality, they practice seclusion.

"Great king, there are these twenty-eight benefits of seclusion, recollecting which benefits the Truth Finders practice seclusion. What are the twenty-eight? Here, great king, seclusion protects oneself when secluded, increases life span, gives strength, conceals faults, removes dishonour, brings honour, dispels discontent, produces delight, removes fear, creates self-confidence, removes laziness, generates energy, removes lust, removes hatred, removes delusion, destroys conceit, breaks up thought, makes the mind one-pointed, softens the mind, produces joy, creates respect, generates gain, makes one worthy of veneration, brings rapture, creates gladness, shows the nature of formations, uproots relinking to existence, gives all qualities of an ascetic. These, great king, are the twenty-eight benefits of seclusion, recollecting which benefits the Truth Finders practice seclusion.

Moreover, great king, the Truth Finders practice seclusion wishing to experience peaceful happiness and delight in attainment, their intentions being fulfilled. Great king, due to four reasons the Truth Finders practice seclusion. With which four? Great king, the Truth Finders practice seclusion for the comfort of dwelling, the Truth Finders practice seclusion for the abundance of blameless qualities, the Truth Finders practice seclusion because of the complete noble path, the Truth Finders practice seclusion because it is praised, extolled, commended and approved by all Buddhas. Great king, due to these four reasons the Truth Finders practice seclusion. Thus, great king, the Truth Finders practice seclusion not because there is something to be done, nor for accumulating what has been done, rather the Truth Finders practice seclusion for seeing the distinction of qualities." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

Ninth Question about What Further Needs to be Done.

10.

The Question About Showing the Power of Spiritual Power

10. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One: 'The Truth Finder, Ānanda, has developed, cultivated, made a vehicle of, made a basis of, maintained, practised, and properly undertaken the four bases for spiritual power. If he wished, Ānanda, the Truth Finder could remain for an aeon or the remainder of an aeon.' And again it was said: 'After the passing of three months from now, the Truth Finder will attain final Nibbāna.' If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Blessed One said: 'The Truth Finder, Ānanda, has developed the four bases for spiritual power...etc... or the remainder of an aeon', then the three-month limitation is wrong. If, Venerable Sir, the Truth Finder said: 'After the passing of three months from now, the Truth Finder will attain final Nibbāna', then that statement 'The Truth Finder, Ānanda, has developed the four bases for spiritual power...etc... or the remainder of an aeon' is also wrong. The Truth Finders do not make thunderous declarations about impossibilities. The Enlightened Ones, the Blessed Ones, speak what is actual, their words are not duplicitous. This dilemma with two points, profound, very subtle, hard to comprehend, has come to you. Break this net of views, establish it definitively, destroy the doctrine of others."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'The Truth Finder, Ānanda, has developed the four bases for spiritual power...etc... or the remainder of an aeon', and the three-month limitation was spoken of, and that aeon is called the life-term aeon. No, great king, the Blessed One did not speak thus praising his own power, but rather, great king, the Blessed One spoke thus praising the power of spiritual power: 'The Truth Finder, Ānanda, has developed the four bases for spiritual power...etc... or the remainder of an aeon.'

"Just as, great king, if the king had a thoroughbred horse, swift as the wind, and the king, praising its power of speed, would say thus in the midst of townspeople, country folk, soldiers, brahmins, householders and ministers: 'If he wished, this excellent horse of mine could circle the earth to the ocean's edge and return here in an instant', yet he would not demonstrate that speed to that assembly, still that speed exists in it, and it is capable of circling the earth to the ocean's edge in an instant. Even so, great king, the Blessed One praising his own power of spiritual power spoke thus, and that too was spoken while seated among those with the three true knowledges, those with the six direct knowledges, Arahants with stains destroyed and taints eliminated, and deities and human beings: 'The Truth Finder, Ānanda, has developed, cultivated, made a vehicle of, made a basis of, maintained, practised, and properly undertaken the four bases for spiritual power. If he wished, Ānanda, the Truth Finder could remain for an aeon or the remainder of an aeon.' And that power of spiritual power exists in the Blessed One, great king, and the Blessed One is capable through the power of spiritual power to remain for an aeon or the remainder of an aeon, but the Blessed One does not show that power of spiritual power in that assembly, the Blessed One, great king, has no need for any existence, and all existences are blamed by the Truth Finder. This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'Just as, monks, even a small amount of excrement is foul-smelling. Even so, monks, I do not praise even a small amount of existence, even for a finger snap.' Would the Blessed One, great king, having seen all modes of existence and realms of rebirth as equal to excrement, create desire and lust for existences depending on the power of spiritual power?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Then, great king, the Blessed One praising the power of spiritual power roared such a lion's roar of the Buddha." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Question About Showing the Power of Spiritual Power, the tenth.

The Chapter on the Power of Spiritual Powers is First.

In this chapter there are ten questions.

2.

The Chapter on the Unbreakable

1.

Question About the Minor and Lesser Training Rules

1. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One: 'Monks, I teach the Teaching through direct knowledge, not without direct knowledge.' And again in laying down the discipline it was said thus: 'If it wishes, Ānanda, after my passing the Community may abolish the minor and lesser training rules.' What then, Venerable Nāgasena, were the minor and lesser training rules badly laid down, or were they laid down without knowing the basis, that the Blessed One allows the minor and lesser training rules to be abolished after his passing? If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Blessed One said: 'Monks, I teach the Teaching through direct knowledge, not without direct knowledge', then the statement 'If it wishes, Ānanda, after my passing the Community may abolish the minor and lesser training rules' is wrong. If the Truth Finder in laying down the discipline said thus: 'If it wishes, Ānanda, after my passing the Community may abolish the minor and lesser training rules', then that statement 'Monks, I teach the Teaching through direct knowledge, not without direct knowledge' is also wrong. This dilemma with two points is subtle, precise, profound, very profound, hard to comprehend, it has come to you, show here the expansion of your power of knowledge."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'Monks, I teach the Teaching through direct knowledge, not without direct knowledge', and in laying down the discipline it was also said thus: 'If it wishes, Ānanda, after my passing the Community may abolish the minor and lesser training rules', but that, great king, the Truth Finder said investigating the monks: 'Will my disciples after my passing lift off the minor and lesser training rules when I allow them to be released, or will they take them up?'"

"Just as, great king, if a wheel-turning monarch were to say to his sons 'This great country, dears, is bounded by the ocean in all directions, it is difficult, dears, to maintain with such strength, come, dears, after my passing abandon the outlying districts'." "But great king, would those princes after their father's passing release all those outlying districts that had come into their hands?" "No, Venerable Sir, princes are more greedy than the king and through greed for rulership would take possession of two or three times more country beyond that, why would they release country that had come into their hands?" "Even so, great king, the Truth Finder investigating the monks said thus: 'If it wishes, Ānanda, after my passing the Community may abolish the minor and lesser training rules'. "For release from suffering, great king, the sons of the Buddha through greed for the Teaching would protect even another one hundred and fifty training rules beyond that, why would they release training rules laid down by nature?"

"Venerable Nāgasena, when the Blessed One said 'minor and lesser training rules', regarding this people are confused, perplexed, overcome, fallen into doubt." What are the minor training rules, what are the lesser training rules? Wrong-doing, great king, is a minor training rule, wrong speech is a lesser training rule. These are the two minor and lesser training rules. Even in the past, great king, uncertainty was raised about this by the great elders, and they too did not make a unified decision. This question has been pointed out by the Blessed One in the method of establishing the Teaching. "Venerable Nāgasena, today the long-concealed secret of the Conqueror has been revealed and made clear in the world."

First Question about the Minor and Lesser Training Rules.

2.

Question About What Should Not Be Answered

2. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One: 'There is no teacher's closed fist in the Truth Finder regarding Teachings', yet again when asked a question by the Elder Mālukyaputta, he did not answer. This question, Venerable Nāgasena, must have two aspects, based on either not knowing or keeping secret. If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Blessed One said: 'There is no teacher's closed fist in the Truth Finder regarding Teachings', then he did not answer the Elder Mālukyaputta because he did not know. If he did not answer while knowing, then there is a teacher's closed fist in the Truth Finder regarding Teachings. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'There is no teacher's closed fist in the Truth Finder regarding Teachings', and the question asked by the Elder Mālukyaputta was not answered, but that was neither due to not knowing nor keeping secret. "Great king, there are these four ways of answering questions. What are the four? A question to be answered categorically, a question to be answered with an analysis, a question to be answered with a counter-question, a question to be set aside.

"And what, great king, is a question to be answered categorically? 'Form is impermanent' is a question to be answered categorically, 'Feeling is impermanent'...etc... 'Perception is impermanent'...etc... 'Formations are impermanent'...etc... 'Consciousness is impermanent' is a question to be answered categorically. This is a question to be answered categorically.

"What is a question to be answered with an analysis? 'But is form impermanent?' is a question to be answered with an analysis, 'But is feeling impermanent?'...etc... 'But is perception impermanent?'...etc... 'But are formations impermanent?'...etc... 'But is consciousness impermanent?' is a question to be answered with an analysis, this is a question to be answered with an analysis.

"What is a question to be answered with a counter-question? 'Does one cognize all with the eye?' this is a question to be answered with a counter-question.

"What is a question to be set aside? 'The world is eternal' is a question to be set aside, 'The world is not eternal'. 'The world is finite'. 'The world is infinite'. 'The world is both finite and infinite'. 'The world is neither finite nor infinite'. 'The soul is the same as the body'. 'The soul is one thing and the body another'. 'The Truth Finder exists after death'. 'The Truth Finder does not exist after death'. 'The Truth Finder both exists and does not exist after death'. 'The Truth Finder neither exists nor does not exist after death' is a question to be set aside, this is a question to be set aside.

The Blessed One, great king, did not answer that question to be set aside for Elder Mālukyaputta. For what reason is that question to be set aside? There is no cause or reason for explaining it, therefore that question is to be set aside. There is no utterance of speech without cause or reason for the Blessed Ones, the Enlightened Ones." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

Question about What Should Not Be Answered Second.

3.

The Question About Fearing and Not Fearing Death

3. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One: 'All tremble at violence, all fear death', yet again it was said: 'The Arahant has transcended all fear.' But Venerable Nāgasena, does the Arahant tremble at violence, or do beings in hell, burning, boiling, heated, thoroughly heated, falling from that blazing mass of flames in the great hell, fear death? If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Blessed One said: 'All tremble at violence, all fear death', then the statement 'The Arahant has transcended all fear' is wrong. If the Blessed One said: 'The Arahant has transcended all fear', then that statement 'All tremble at violence, all fear death' is also wrong. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"Great king, that statement 'All tremble at violence, all fear death' was not spoken by the Blessed One with reference to Arahants. The Arahant is established in that matter, the cause of fear is eliminated for the Arahant. Those beings, great king, who have defilements, and those who have strong view of self, and those who are elated and depressed in pleasure and pain, with reference to them the Blessed One said: 'All tremble at violence, all fear death.' For the Arahant, great king, all destinations are cut off, modes of generation are destroyed, relinking is struck down, the ribs are broken, all adhesions to existence are eliminated, all formations are cut off, wholesome and unwholesome are destroyed, ignorance is demolished, consciousness is made seedless, all defilements are burnt up, worldly conditions are transcended, therefore the Arahant does not tremble at all fears.

Here, great king, there might be four ministers of the king who are protective, have gained fame, are trustworthy, established in a position of great authority. Then when some royal duty arose, the king would command all people in his own realm: "Let all pay tribute to me, you four ministers accomplish that duty." But great king, would fear of tribute arise in those four ministers?" "No, Venerable Sir." "For what reason, great king?" "They are established, Venerable Sir, by the king in the highest position, there is no tribute for them, they have transcended tribute, with reference to the rest the king commanded 'Let all pay tribute to me'." "Even so, great king, that statement was not spoken by the Blessed One with reference to Arahants, the Arahant is established in that matter, the cause of fear is eliminated for the Arahant, those beings, great king, who have defilements, and those who have strong view of self, and those who are elated and depressed in pleasure and pain, with reference to them the Blessed One said: 'All tremble at violence, all fear death'. Therefore the Arahant does not tremble at all fears."

"That statement, Venerable Nāgasena, is not with remainder, it is a statement without remainder saying 'all'." Tell me further reason there to establish that statement."

"Here, great king, in a village the village owner might command a messenger: 'Come, messenger, quickly gather all the villagers in my presence.' He having accepted 'Yes, master' would stand in the middle of the village and announce three times: 'Let all villagers quickly gather in the master's presence.' Then those villagers having hurriedly gathered at the messenger's word would inform the village owner: 'All villagers have gathered, master, do whatever you have to do.' Thus, great king, that village owner commanding the gathering of cottage dwellers commands all villagers, and though commanded not all gather, only the cottage dwellers gather, and the village owner accepts 'These are all my villagers', many others have not come - women and men, female and male slaves, hired workers, labourers, villagers who are sick, cattle and buffaloes, goats and sheep, dogs, those who have not come are all uncounted, because the command 'Let all gather' was given with reference only to cottage dwellers. Even so, great king, that statement was not spoken by the Blessed One with reference to Arahants, the Arahant is established in that matter, the cause of fear is eliminated for the Arahant, those beings, great king, who have defilements, and those who have strong view of self, and those who are elated and depressed in pleasure and pain, with reference to them the Blessed One said: 'All tremble at violence, all fear death.' Therefore the Arahant does not tremble at all fears.

"There is, great king, a statement with remainder and a meaning with remainder, there is a statement with remainder and a meaning without remainder, there is a statement without remainder and a meaning with remainder, there is a statement without remainder and a meaning without remainder. The meaning should be accepted through this and that.

"Great king, the meaning should be accepted through five kinds of reasons: through textual authority, through coherence, through the teachers' lineage, through intention, and through the superiority of reason. Here 'textual authority' means the discourse. 'Coherence' means what is in accordance with the discourses. 'Teachers' lineage' means the doctrine of the teachers. 'Intention' means one's own understanding. 'Superiority of reason' means reasoning that agrees with these four. Great king, through these five reasons the meaning should be accepted. Thus this question is well decided."

"Let it be so, Venerable Nāgasena, I accept it in that way. "Let the Arahant be established in that matter, let the remaining beings tremble, but do beings in hell, experiencing painful, intense, sharp feelings, with all their major and minor limbs blazing and burning, their faces full of weeping, compassion, crying, lamentation and wailing, overcome by unbearable intense pain, without protection, without refuge, become refugeless, afflicted with no small sorrow, having reached their final and ultimate destination, headed only towards sorrow, with heat sharp fierce harsh burning heat-element, with terrifying fear-producing resonating great sounds, entangled with a sixfold net of flames spreading all around for a hundred yojanas with swift movement, in the cruel, tormenting great hell, fear death when falling from there?" "Yes, great king."

"But Venerable Nāgasena, hell is exclusively to be felt as suffering, so why do those beings in hell, falling from hell which is exclusively to be felt as suffering, fear death, why do they delight in hell?" "Great king, beings in hell do not delight in hell, they wish to escape from hell. Great king, it is the power of death itself by which fear arises in them." "Venerable Nāgasena, I do not believe this, that fear arises at death for those wishing to escape. Venerable Nāgasena, that state is laughable, that they get what they desire. Convince me with a reason."

"Great king, death is a state of terror for those who have not seen the truth, here people tremble and are terrified. Great king, one who fears a black snake fears it fearing death. One who fears an elephant...etc... a lion...etc... a tiger...etc... a leopard...etc... a bear...etc... a hyena...etc... a buffalo...etc... a gayal...etc... fire...etc... water...etc... a stump...etc... fears a thorn. One who fears a sword fears it fearing death. Great king, it is the essential nature and power of death itself by which defiled beings tremble and fear death, and great king, even beings in hell who wish to escape tremble and fear death.

Here, great king, a fatty tumour might arise in a person's body. Being afflicted with that illness and wishing to be released from the calamity, he would have a physician and surgeon called. Having accepted his word, that physician and surgeon would prepare equipment for removing his illness, would sharpen a knife, would put a pair of probes in the fire, would have salt and acid ground on a grindstone. But great king, would fear arise in that sick person from the cutting with the sharp knife, the burning with the pair of probes, the insertion of salt and acid? "Yes, Venerable Sir." "Thus, great king, even though wishing to be released from illness, fear arises in that sick person from dread of the painful feeling. Even so, great king, even for beings in hell wishing to be released from hell, fear arises from dread of death.

"Here, great king, a person who has offended against authority would be bound with chain bonds, thrown into a cell, and would wish to be released, and that authority wishing to release him would have him called. "But great king, would fear arise in that person who has offended against the ruler, knowing 'I have committed an offense', upon seeing the ruler?" "Yes, Venerable Sir." "Thus, great king, even though wishing to be released, fear arises in that person who has offended against the ruler from dread of the ruler. Even so, great king, even for beings in hell wishing to be released from hell, fear arises from dread of death."

"Tell me another further reason, Venerable Sir, by which reason I would be convinced." "Here, great king, a person might be bitten by a venomous snake, and due to the effect of that venom he would fall down, jump up, roll around and writhe about, then another person with a powerful spell would bring that venomous snake that had bitten him and make it suck back the venom. But great king, would fear arise in that person affected by venom when that snake that had bitten him approaches as a cause of well-being?" "Yes, Venerable Sir." Thus, great king, fear arises in him even when such a snake approaches as a cause of well-being. Even so, great king, fear arises from dread of death even for beings in hell wishing to be released from hell. Death, great king, is undesirable for all beings, therefore beings in hell, even though wishing to be released from hell, fear death." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Third Question, about Fearing and Not Fearing Death.

4.

The Question About Freedom from Death's Snare

4. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One -

"Again, the Blessed One has proclaimed the protective texts. That is: the Jewel Discourse, the Discourse on Loving-kindness, the Aggregate Protection, the Peacock Protection, the Banner-top Protection, the Āṭānāṭiya Protection, the Aṅgulimāla Protection. If, Venerable Nāgasena, one cannot escape from death's snare whether in the sky, in the middle of the ocean, in a mansion, hut, cave, cavern, cleft, crevice, or mountain interior, then the act of protection is wrong. If there is release from death's snare through making protection, then that statement 'not in the sky...etc... death's snare' is also wrong. This dilemma with two points, more knotted than a knot, has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'not in the sky...etc... "Death's snares," and protection verses were declared by the Blessed One, but that is for one whose life span has a remainder, who has reached maturity, who is free from obstruction of action; there is no action or effort for maintaining one whose life span is exhausted, great king.

Just as, great king, for a dead tree that is dried up, hollow, sapless, with life cut off, with vital force gone, even if a thousand pots of water were poured on it, there would be no moistness or sprouting of green leaves. Even so, great king, through medicine and protection verses there is no action or effort for maintaining one whose life span is exhausted. Whatever medicines and remedies there are on earth, great king, they too are ineffective for one whose life span is exhausted. Protection verses protect and guard one whose life span has a remainder, who has reached maturity, who is free from obstruction of action, great king; for that purpose protection verses were declared by the Blessed One.

Just as, great king, a farmer would prevent water from entering when the grain is ripe and the stalks are dead, but whatever crop is young, cloud-like, having reached maturity, that grows through the increase of water. Even so, great king, the act of medicine and protection verses is set aside and rejected for one whose life span is exhausted, but for those human beings who have life span remaining and are endowed with vitality, protection verses and medicines are spoken, they prosper through protection verses and medicines."

"If, Venerable Nāgasena, one whose life span is exhausted dies, one whose life span remains lives, then protection verses and medicines are useless?" "Have you seen before, great king, any disease turned back by medicines?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, I have seen hundreds of them." "Then, great king, the statement that 'the practice of protective medicine is useless' is wrong."

"The treatments of doctors are seen, Venerable Nāgasena, medicines for drinking and anointing, by those treatments disease is turned back." "Great king, when protective chants are being recited, a sound is heard, the tongue dries up, the heart turns, the throat becomes sore. Through their recitation all diseases subside, all calamities disappear.

"Have you seen before, great king, anyone bitten by a snake, having the poison drawn out by mantras, spitting out the poison, vomiting up and down?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, this happens in the world even today." "Then, great king, the statement that 'the practice of protective medicine is useless' is wrong. For, great king, a snake wishing to bite a person who has protective chants does not bite, closes its opened mouth, even the raised clubs of thieves do not succeed, they drop their clubs and show affection, even an enraged elephant approaching stops, even a great mass of blazing fire approaching is extinguished, even deadly poison when eaten becomes medicine, or serves as nutriment, murderers wishing to kill on approaching become slaves, even a set trap does not close.

"Have you heard before, great king, that 'when a peacock had done protective chants, for seven hundred years the hunter was not able to set a trap, but when it had not done protective chants, on that very day he set the trap'?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, it is heard, that sound has risen high in the world with its deities." "Then, great king, the statement that 'the practice of protective medicine is useless' is wrong.

"Have you heard before, great king, 'A demon protecting his wife, having put her in a box and swallowing it, carried her in his belly, then a knowledge-bearer entering through that demon's mouth took delight with her, when the demon knew of it, he vomited up the box and opened it, as soon as the box was opened the knowledge-bearer departed as he wished'?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, it is heard, that sound too has risen high in the world with its deities." "Was not that knowledge-bearer, great king, freed from capture by the power of protection?" "Yes, Venerable Sir." "Then, great king, there is power of protection.

"Have you heard before, great king, 'Another knowledge-bearer too, having misbehaved with the chief queen in the inner quarters of the king of Bārāṇasi, when about to be captured, disappeared in an instant by the power of mantras'?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, it is heard." "Was not that knowledge-bearer, great king, freed from capture by the power of protection?" "Yes, Venerable Sir." "Then, great king, there is power of protection."

"Venerable Nāgasena, does protection guard everyone?" "Some, great king, it protects, some it does not protect." "Then, Venerable Nāgasena, protection verses are not universal?" "But great king, does food protect the life of all?" "Some, Venerable Sir, it protects, some it does not protect." "For what reason?" "Because, Venerable Sir, some having eaten that very food excessively die of cholera." "Then, great king, food does not protect the life of all?" "For two reasons, Venerable Nāgasena, food takes away life: through eating excessively or through weakness of heat. Life-giving food, Venerable Nāgasena, takes away life through improper use." "Even so, great king, protection verses protect some, do not protect some.

"For three reasons, great king, protection verses do not protect: due to obstruction by action, obstruction by defilements, and lack of faith. Protection of beings, great king, a protection verse abandons protection through one's own doing, just as, great king, a mother nourishes her son in the womb, gives birth with beneficial care, having given birth removes impurities, dirt and mucus, and applies the finest excellent fragrance. At a later time when others' sons abuse or strike, he gives a blow. Being angry with him, having dragged him in the assembly and seized him, they bring him to the owners, if indeed her son has offended, having transgressed the proper time. "No, Venerable Sir." "For what reason, great king?" "Through his own offense, Venerable Sir." "Even so, great king, through one's own offense one makes the protection, the protection verse for beings, fruitless." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, the question is well decided, the thicket has been made into no thicket, darkness has been made light, the net of views has been unravelled, you are the foremost among the excellent teachers."

The Question about Freedom from Death's Snare, fourth.

5.

Question About the Obstacle to the Buddha's Gains

5. "Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'the Truth Finder is a recipient of robes, almsfood, lodgings and medicinal requisites'. Yet the Truth Finder entered the brahmin village of Pañcasāla for alms and left with his bowl just as empty, having received nothing at all. If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Truth Finder is a recipient of robes, almsfood, lodgings and medicinal requisites, then the statement that having entered the brahmin village of Pañcasāla for alms he left with his bowl just as empty, having received nothing at all, is wrong. If having entered the brahmin village of Pañcasāla for alms he left with his bowl just as empty, having received nothing at all, then that statement that the Truth Finder is a recipient of robes, almsfood, lodgings and medicinal requisites is also wrong. This dilemma with two points, very great and hard to unravel, has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"The Truth Finder, great king, is a recipient of robes, almsfood, lodgings and medicinal requisites, and having entered the brahmin village of Pañcasāla for alms he left with his bowl just as empty, having received nothing at all, but that was due to the action of Māra the Evil One." "Then, Venerable Nāgasena, how was the wholesome action conditioned by the Blessed One over countless aeons concluded, how was the powerful force of that wholesome action blocked by the Evil One who has just arisen? Then, Venerable Nāgasena, in this matter blame comes in two places: unwholesome is stronger than wholesome, and Māra's power is stronger than the Buddha's power. Then the top of a tree is heavier than its root, and evil is stronger than being endowed with virtues." "No, great king, unwholesome does not become stronger than wholesome merely by that much, nor does Māra's power become stronger than the Buddha's power merely by that much. And here a reason should be desired.

"Just as, great king, if a person were to bring honey or a honey ball or some other gift to a wheel-turning monarch, the king's doorkeeper would say to him thus: 'Sir, this is not the time to see the king. Therefore, sir, taking your gift, return quickly before the king imposes punishment on you.' Then that person, frightened and terrified by fear of punishment, taking that gift would quickly return. But great king, would that wheel-turning monarch be weaker than the doorkeeper merely because of that slight lack of gift, or would he not receive any other gift?" "No, Venerable Sir, that doorkeeper did not prevent the gift through envy, rather through another door a hundred thousand times more gifts come to the king." "Even so, great king, Māra, the Evil One, possessed those brahmins and householders of Pañcasālā through envy, but many hundreds of thousands of other deities came bringing divine immortal essence, standing with palms joined in reverence to the Blessed One thinking 'We will place essence in the Blessed One's body'."

"Let it be so, Venerable Nāgasena, the four requisites are easily obtained in the world for the Blessed One, the supreme person, the Blessed One uses the four requisites when requested by deities and humans, but still Māra's intention was accomplished to that extent, in that he created an obstacle to the Blessed One's food. "Venerable Sir, my perplexity about this is not cut off, I am born of uncertainty, fallen into doubt. My mind does not incline to that, that Māra created an obstacle to gain for the Truth Finder, worthy, fully enlightened, the foremost individual in the world with its deities, born of supreme wholesome merit, the unequalled, incomparable, matchless, who is vile, inferior, limited, evil, ignoble, and corrupt."

"Great king, there are these four obstacles: the unseen obstacle, the directed obstacle, the prepared obstacle, and the usage obstacle. Therein, what is the unseen obstacle? Someone creates an unconditioned obstacle without seeing and without directing, thinking: 'What is the use of giving to another?' This is called the unseen obstacle.

What is the directed obstacle? Here, having pointed out and directed food to be prepared for a certain individual, someone creates an obstacle to it. This is called the directed obstacle.

What is the prepared obstacle? Here, whatever has been prepared but not yet received, someone creates an obstacle to it. This is called the prepared obstacle.

What is the consumption obstacle? Here, whatever is for consumption, someone creates an obstacle to it. This is called the consumption obstacle. These, great king, are the four obstacles.

When Māra, the Evil One, possessed the brahmins and householders of Pañcasālā, it was neither the Blessed One's consumption, nor what was prepared, nor what was directed, but an obstacle created through non-seeing of what had not yet come or been reached. Moreover, this affected not just the Blessed One alone, but all those who had gone forth and were visiting did not receive food that day. I do not see anyone, great king, in the world with its devas, Māra, and Brahmā, among the population with its ascetics and brahmins, devas and humans, who could create an obstacle to what was directed, prepared, or for consumption by the Blessed One. If anyone through envy should create an obstacle to what was directed, prepared, or for consumption, their head would split into a hundred or a thousand pieces.

"Great king, these are the four qualities of the Truth Finder that cannot be obstructed by anyone. Which four? Great king, no one can create an obstacle to what is directed and prepared for the Blessed One's gain; Great king, no one can create an obstacle to the fathom-wide aura that accompanies the Blessed One's body; Great king, no one can create an obstacle to the Blessed One's jewel of omniscient knowledge; Great king, no one can create an obstacle to the Blessed One's life. These, great king, are the four qualities of the Truth Finder that cannot be obstructed by anyone. All these qualities, great king, are of one taste, healthy, unshakable, not subject to interference, untouchable deeds. Great king, Māra, the Evil One, hiding through non-seeing, possessed the brahmins and householders of Pañcasālā.

"Just as, great king, in the king's unrighteous frontier region, robbers hiding through non-seeing corrupt the path. "But if the king were to see those thieves, would those thieves obtain well-being?" "No, Venerable Sir, he would have them split with an axe into a hundred or a thousand pieces." Even so, great king, Māra, the Evil One, hiding through non-seeing, possessed the brahmins and householders of Pañcasālā.

"Moreover, great king, just as a woman with a husband, hiding through non-seeing, associates with another man, even so, great king, Māra, the Evil One, hiding through non-seeing, possessed the brahmins and householders of Pañcasālā. "If, great king, a woman associates with another man in the presence of her husband, would that woman obtain well-being?" "No, Venerable Sir, the husband would kill her, would slay her, would imprison her, or would reduce her to slavery." Even so, great king, Māra, the Evil One, hiding through non-seeing, possessed the brahmins and householders of Pañcasālā. If, great king, Māra, the Evil One, were to create an obstacle to what was directed, prepared, or for consumption by the Blessed One, his head would split into a hundred or a thousand pieces." "So it is, Venerable Nāgasena, it was done stealthily by Māra, the Evil One; Māra, the Evil One, hiding, possessed the brahmins and householders of Pañcasālā. If, Venerable Sir, Māra, the Evil One, were to create an obstacle to what was directed, prepared, or for consumption by the Blessed One, either his head would split into a hundred or a thousand pieces, or his body would be scattered like a handful of chaff. Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The fifth question, about the obstacle to the Buddha's gains.

6.

The Question About Demerit

6. "Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'one who destroys life without knowing makes more powerful demerit'. And again the Blessed One said in laying down the discipline 'there is no offence for one who does not know'. If, Venerable Nāgasena, one who destroys life without knowing makes more powerful demerit, then the statement 'there is no offence for one who does not know' is wrong. If there is no offence for one who does not know, then that statement 'one who destroys life without knowing makes more powerful demerit' is also wrong. This dilemma with two points, hard to cross over, hard to transcend, has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'one who destroys life without knowing makes more powerful demerit'. And again the Blessed One said in laying down the discipline 'there is no offence for one who does not know'. There is a different meaning therein. What is the different meaning? There are, great king, offences that are deliverance through perception, and there are offences that are not deliverance through perception. Regarding that offence, great king, which is deliverance through perception, the Blessed One said 'there is no offence for one who does not know'. "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Question about Demerit is sixth.

7.

The Question About Leading the Community of Monks

7. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One: 'The Truth Finder, Ānanda, does not think thus: "I will lead the Community of monks" or "The Community of monks is under my direction".' Yet again, illuminating the natural qualities of the Blessed One Metteyya, the Blessed One spoke thus: 'He will guide an Order of monks numbering many thousands, just as I now guide an Order of monks numbering many hundreds.' If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Blessed One said: 'The Truth Finder, Ānanda, does not think thus: "I will lead the Community of monks" or "The Community of monks is under my direction"', then the statement 'I guide an Order of monks numbering many hundreds' is wrong. If the Truth Finder said: 'He will guide an Order of monks numbering many thousands, just as I now guide an Order of monks numbering many hundreds', then that statement 'The Truth Finder, Ānanda, does not think thus: "I will lead the Community of monks" or "The Community of monks is under my direction"' is also wrong. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'The Truth Finder, Ānanda, does not think thus: "I will lead the Community of monks" or "The Community of monks is under my direction".' Yet again, illuminating the natural qualities of the Blessed One Metteyya, the Blessed One spoke thus: 'He will guide an Order of monks numbering many thousands, just as I now guide an Order of monks numbering many hundreds.' And in this question, great king, one meaning is with remainder, one meaning is without remainder. Great king, the Truth Finder is not a follower of the assembly, but the assembly is a follower of the Truth Finder. Great king, this is a convention 'I' and 'mine', this is not ultimate truth, affection is gone for the Truth Finder, great king, attachment is gone, there is no grasping as 'mine' for the Truth Finder, but there is support through clinging.

"Just as, great king, the earth is a support and shelter for beings established on the ground, and these beings are established on the earth, but the great earth has no expectation 'these are mine', even so, great king, the Truth Finder is a support and shelter for all beings, and these beings are established on the Truth Finder, but the Truth Finder has no expectation 'these are mine'. Or just as, great king, a great rain cloud raining down gives growth to grass, trees, cattle and human beings and maintains their continuity. And these beings all live dependent on rain, but the great rain cloud has no expectation 'these are mine'. Even so, great king, the Truth Finder generates and maintains wholesome states for all beings, and all these beings live dependent on the Teacher, but the Truth Finder has no expectation 'these are mine'. What is the reason for this? Because of having abandoned the view of self."

"Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, the question is well unravelled with many reasons, what was profound has been made clear, the knot has been untied, the thicket has been made into no thicket, darkness has been made light, other doctrines have been broken, the eye has been produced for the sons of the Conqueror."

The Question about Leading the Community of Monks is Seventh.

8.

The Question About the Assembly that Cannot be Split

8. "Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'the Truth Finder has an assembly that cannot be split', yet again you say 'Devadatta split five hundred monks at one stroke'. If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Truth Finder has an assembly that cannot be split, then the statement that Devadatta split five hundred monks at one stroke is wrong. If Devadatta split five hundred monks at one stroke, then that statement 'the Truth Finder has an assembly that cannot be split' is also wrong. This dilemma with two points has come to you, profound and hard to unravel, more knotted than a knot, here people are hindered, obstructed, impeded, blocked, enveloped, show here your power of knowledge against other doctrines."

"The Truth Finder has an assembly that cannot be split, great king, and Devadatta split five hundred monks at one stroke, but that was through the power of the splitter, when there is a splitter present, great king, there is nothing that cannot be split. When there is a divider, mother is divided from son, son is divided from mother, father is divided from son, son is divided from father, brother is divided from sister, sister is divided from brother, friend is divided from friend, a boat made of various pieces of wood is divided by the impact of waves, a tree full of sweet fruit is divided when struck by the force of wind, even pure gold is divided by metal. However, great king, this is not the intention of the wise, this is not the disposition of the Buddhas, this is not the desire of the wise persons 'that the Truth Finder has an assembly that can be split'. And here there is a reason why the Truth Finder is called 'one whose assembly cannot be split'. What is that reason here? Great king, it has never been heard that the Truth Finder's assembly was split by his not giving, or by harsh speech, or by harmful conduct, or by impartiality, or by any conduct whatsoever, for this reason the Truth Finder is called 'one whose assembly cannot be split'. You should know this too, great king: 'Is there anything in the ninefold word of the Buddha found in the suttas where the Truth Finder's assembly was split by this or that reason done by the Bodhisatta?' "There is not, Venerable Sir, this is neither seen nor heard in the world. Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Eighth Question, about the Assembly that Cannot be Split.

The Chapter on the Unbreakable Second.

In this chapter there are eight questions.

3.

The Chapter on Dismissal

1.

Question About the Best Teaching

1. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One: 'For the Teaching, Vāseṭṭha, is best among people, both in this very life and in the life to come.' Yet again 'A male lay follower, a householder who is a stream-enterer, closed off from states of deprivation, attained-to-view, who has understood the Teaching, pays homage to and rises up for a monk or novice who is an ordinary person.' If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Blessed One said: 'For the Teaching, Vāseṭṭha, is best among people, both in this very life and in the life to come', then the statement 'A male lay follower, a householder who is a stream-enterer, closed off from states of deprivation, attained-to-view, who has understood the Teaching, pays homage to and rises up for a monk or novice who is an ordinary person' is wrong. If 'A male lay follower, a householder who is a stream-enterer, closed off from states of deprivation, attained-to-view, who has understood the Teaching, pays homage to and rises up for a monk or novice who is an ordinary person', then that statement 'For the Teaching, Vāseṭṭha, is best among people, both in this very life and in the life to come' is also wrong. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'For the Teaching, Vāseṭṭha, is best among people, both in this very life and in the life to come', and 'A male lay follower, a householder who is a stream-enterer, closed off from states of deprivation, attained-to-view, who has understood the Teaching, pays homage to and rises up for a monk or novice who is an ordinary person'. Therein there is a reason. What is that reason?

"Great king, there are these twenty qualities that make one an ascetic and two characteristics, due to which an ascetic is worthy of welcome, rising up from one's seat, respect and veneration. What are the twenty qualities that make one an ascetic and the two characteristics? The best delight in the Teaching, the highest fixed course, proper conduct, dwelling, self-control, restraint, patience, mildness, living alone, delight in solitude, seclusion, moral shame and fear of wrongdoing, energy, diligence, undertaking the training, synopsis, questioning, delight in virtue and so forth, non-attachment, fulfilment of the training rules, wearing the ochre robe, and having a shaven head. These, great king, are the twenty qualities that make one an ascetic and the two characteristics. A monk who lives undertaking these qualities, due to their completeness, fulfilment, perfection and possession, enters the plane of the non-trainee, the plane of Arahantship, enters the highest plane, and being close to Arahantship, a stream-enterer lay follower should welcome and rise up for an ordinary monk.

'He has entered into asceticism with those whose taints are destroyed, I do not have that attainment,' thus a stream-enterer lay follower should welcome and rise up for an ordinary monk.

'He has joined the foremost assembly, I have not attained that state,' thus a stream-enterer lay follower should welcome and rise up for an ordinary monk.

'He gets to hear the recitation of the code of monastic rules, I do not get to hear it,' thus a stream-enterer lay follower should welcome and rise up for an ordinary monk.

'He ordains and gives full admission to others and makes the Enlightened One's Dispensation grow, I do not get to do this,' thus a stream-enterer lay follower should welcome and rise up for an ordinary monk.

'He is one who fully practices the immeasurable training rules, I do not live by them,' thus a stream-enterer lay follower should welcome and rise up for an ordinary monk.

'He has taken up the mark of an ascetic, established in the intention of the Enlightened One, I am far removed from that mark,' thus a stream-enterer lay follower should welcome and rise up for an ordinary monk.

'He has grown out hair and nails, unadorned, unembellished, anointed with the odour of virtue, while I delight in ornaments and decorations,' thus a stream-enterer lay follower should welcome and rise up for an ordinary monk.

"However, great king, 'those twenty qualities that make one an ascetic and the two characteristics, all these qualities are found in a monk, he himself maintains these qualities, and he trains others in them too, I do not have that tradition and training,' thus a stream-enterer lay follower should welcome and rise up for an ordinary monk.

"Just as, great king, a prince learns true knowledge from the royal chaplain, trains in the duties of the warrior-administrative class, and at a later time when anointed welcomes and rises up for the teacher thinking 'This is my instructor', even so, great king, 'A monk is an instructor, a bearer of the lineage,' thus a stream-enterer lay follower should welcome and rise up for an ordinary monk.

"However, great king, know by this method the greatness and incomparable vastness of the plane of monkhood. If, great king, a stream-enterer lay follower realizes Arahantship, there are only two destinations for him, no others: either he would attain final Nibbāna on that very day, or he would take up monkhood. For that going forth is unshakeable, great king, lofty and elevated, that is, the plane of monkhood." "This question that has reached to knowledge, Venerable Nāgasena, is well unravelled by you who are powerful and very wise. No other is capable of unravelling this question except one wise like you."

First Question about the Best Teaching.

2.

The Question About Pervading with Welfare for All Beings

2. "Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'the Truth Finder removes what is harmful and establishes what is beneficial for all beings'. Yet again you say that when the Teaching discourse on the Simile of the Mass of Fire was being spoken, 'hot blood came from the mouths of about sixty monks'. Venerable Sir, when the Truth Finder was teaching the Teaching discourse on the Simile of the Mass of Fire, he removed what was beneficial and established what was harmful for about sixty monks. If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Truth Finder removes what is harmful and establishes what is beneficial for all beings, then the statement that when the Teaching discourse on the Simile of the Mass of Fire was being spoken, hot blood came from the mouths of about sixty monks, is wrong. If when the Teaching discourse on the Simile of the Mass of Fire was being spoken, hot blood came from the mouths of about sixty monks, then that statement that the Truth Finder removes what is harmful and establishes what is beneficial for all beings is also wrong. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"Great king, the Truth Finder removes what is harmful and establishes what is beneficial for all beings, and when the Teaching discourse on the Simile of the Mass of Fire was being spoken, hot blood came from the mouths of about sixty monks, but that was not due to what the Truth Finder did, it was due to what they themselves did."

"If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Truth Finder had not spoken the Teaching discourse on the Simile of the Mass of Fire, would hot blood have come from their mouths?" "No, great king, but because they were practising wrongly, after hearing the Blessed One's Teaching discourse passion arose in their bodies, and because of that passion hot blood came from their mouths." "Then, Venerable Nāgasena, it was due to what the Truth Finder did that hot blood came from their mouths, the Truth Finder himself was responsible there for their destruction, just as, Venerable Nāgasena, if a snake were to enter an anthill, and then a person wanting earth were to break open the anthill and take away earth, and by his taking away earth he were to block up the hole in the anthill, and then the snake were to die right there not getting breath, would not that snake, Venerable Sir, have met death due to what that person did?" "Yes, great king." "Even so, Venerable Nāgasena, the Truth Finder himself was responsible there for their destruction."

"Great king, the Truth Finder when teaching the Teaching does not create attraction or aversion, he teaches the Teaching free from attraction and aversion, when the Teaching is being taught thus, those who are practising rightly there understand. Those who are practising wrongly, they fall. Just as, great king, when a person is shaking a mango tree or a jambu tree or a madhuka tree, those fruits there that have essence and are firmly bound remain right there unshaken, those fruits there that have rotten stalks and roots and are weakly bound fall. Even so, great king, the Truth Finder when teaching the Teaching does not create attraction or aversion, he teaches the Teaching free from attraction and aversion, when the Teaching is being taught thus, those who are practising rightly there understand. Those who are practising wrongly, they fall.

"Moreover, great king, when a farmer wishing to sow grain ploughs a field, while he is ploughing many hundreds of thousands of grasses die. Even so, great king, the Truth Finder when awakening beings whose minds are fully matured teaches the Teaching free from attraction and aversion, when the Teaching is being taught thus, those who are practising rightly there understand. Those who are practising wrongly, they die like grasses.

"Moreover, great king, just as people press sugarcane with a machine for the sake of taste, and when they are pressing the sugarcane, those worms that have gone into the mouth of the machine are crushed. Even so, great king, the Truth Finder when awakening beings whose minds are fully matured squeezes the wheel of Teaching, those who are practising wrongly there die like worms."

"But Venerable Nāgasena, did not those monks fall through that teaching of the Teaching?" "But great king, does a carpenter when planing wood make it straight and pure?" "No, Venerable Sir, having removed what should be rejected, the carpenter makes the wood straight and pure." "Even so, great king, the Truth Finder protecting the assembly cannot awaken beings who should be awakened, but having removed wrongly practising beings, he awakens beings who should be awakened, but through their own doing, great king, wrongly practising beings fall.

"Just as, great king, the plantain, bamboo and mule are destroyed by what is born of themselves, even so, great king, those who are wrongly practising are destroyed and fall through their own doing.

"Just as, great king, thieves through their own doing receive gouging out of eyes, impalement, and decapitation, even so, great king, those who are wrongly practising are destroyed and fall through their own doing. Great king, for those sixty or so monks from whose mouths hot blood came forth, that was not due to what the Blessed One did, nor due to what others did, but due to what they themselves did.

"Just as, great king, if a person were to give the Deathless to all people, and they having consumed that Deathless would become healthy, long-lived and freed from all afflictions, but then some person through improper use having consumed it would meet death, would that person who gave the Deathless, great king, incur any demerit on that account?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Even so, great king, the Truth Finder gives the gift of the Teaching, the Deathless, to deities and human beings in the ten-thousandfold world system, those beings who are capable awaken through the Deathless Teaching. But those beings who are incapable are destroyed and fall through the Deathless Teaching. Food, great king, protects the life of all beings, but some having eaten die from cholera, would that person who gave the food, great king, incur any demerit on that account?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Even so, great king, the Truth Finder gives the gift of the Teaching, the Deathless, to deities and human beings in the ten-thousandfold world system, those beings who are capable awaken through the Deathless Teaching. But those beings who are incapable are destroyed and fall through the Deathless Teaching." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Question about Pervading with Welfare for All Beings, the second.

3.

The Question About Showing the Private Parts

3. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Truth Finder -

Again the Truth Finder, sitting in the midst of the four assemblies, showed his male organ covered by a cloth to the brahmin Sela in front of deities and human beings. If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Blessed One said 'Restraint of body is good', then the statement that he showed his male organ covered by a cloth to the brahmin Sela is wrong. If he showed his male organ covered by a cloth to the brahmin Sela, then that statement 'Restraint of body is good' is also wrong. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'Restraint of body is good', and he showed his male organ covered by a cloth to the brahmin Sela. Great king, for one in whom doubt about the Truth Finder has arisen, for the purpose of awakening him the Blessed One shows through spiritual power a body corresponding to that, only he sees that wonder."

"But who, Venerable Nāgasena, would believe this, that when in an assembly only one sees that secret thing, while the others staying right there do not see it? Come now, point out to me the reason there, convince me with a reason." "But have you seen before, great king, any sick person surrounded by relatives and friends?" "Yes, Venerable Sir." "But great king, does that assembly see that feeling with which that person feels?" "No, Venerable Sir, that person alone feels it." "Even so, great king, for whomever doubt about the Truth Finder has arisen, for him alone the Truth Finder shows through spiritual power a body corresponding to that for the purpose of awakening him, only he sees that wonder.

"Moreover, great king, if a spirit were to possess some person, but great king, does that assembly see that spirit's coming?" "No, Venerable Sir, not only the sick person sees the coming of that being." "Even so, great king, for whomever doubt about the Truth Finder has arisen, for him alone the Truth Finder shows through spiritual power a body corresponding to that for the purpose of awakening him, only he sees that wonder."

"A difficult thing was done by the Blessed One, Venerable Nāgasena, in showing what is not to be seen even by one person." "No, great king, the Blessed One did not show what was concealed, but showed a shadow through spiritual power." "Even when a shadow is seen, Venerable Sir, what is concealed is indeed seen, seeing which one reaches the goal." "The Truth Finder does what is difficult too, great king, to awaken beings who should be awakened. If, great king, the Truth Finder were to neglect action, beings who should be awakened would not awaken. But because, great king, the Truth Finder is skilled in means to awaken beings who should be awakened, therefore the Truth Finder awakens those who should be awakened by whatever means they awaken.

"Just as, great king, a physician and surgeon approaches a patient with whatever medicine makes the sick person healthy, makes one who should vomit vomit, purges one who should be purged, applies ointment to one who should be anointed, administers enema to one who should receive enema. Even so, great king, the Truth Finder awakens beings who should be awakened by whatever means they awaken.

"Moreover, great king, just as a woman with difficult pregnancy shows her private parts that should not be seen to a physician, even so, great king, the Truth Finder, to awaken beings who should be awakened, showed through spiritual power a shadow that should not be seen. There is no place, great king, that is invisible in relation to an individual. If, great king, anyone would awaken by seeing the heart of the Blessed One, the Blessed One would show his heart through effort, for the Truth Finder, great king, knows effort and is skilled in teaching.

Indeed, great king, the Truth Finder, knowing the disposition of the Elder Nanda, led him to the abode of deities and showed him celestial maidens, thinking "This clansman will awaken through this," and through that the clansman awakened. Thus, great king, the Truth Finder, while in many methods despising, blaming and loathing the sign of beauty, showed celestial maidens like Kakuṭapādinī for the cause of his awakening. Thus too the Truth Finder is skilled in exertion and wholesome in teaching.

"Furthermore, great king, the Truth Finder approached the Elder Cūḷapanthaka who was thrown out by his brother, suffering and depressed, and gave him a subtle piece of cloth thinking 'This clansman will awaken through this', and through that cause that clansman attained mastery in the Dispensation of the Conqueror. Thus too, great king, the Truth Finder is skilled in exertion and wholesome in teaching.

"Furthermore, great king, the Truth Finder did not answer the question of the brahmin Mogharāja even when asked three times, thinking 'Thus this clansman's conceit will be pacified, and through the pacification of conceit there will be breakthrough', and through that the clansman's conceit was pacified, and through the pacification of conceit that brahmin attained mastery in the six direct knowledges. Thus too, great king, the Truth Finder is skilled in exertion and wholesome in teaching."

"Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, the question is well unravelled with many reasons, the thicket has been made into no thicket, darkness has been made light, the knot has been untied, other doctrines have been broken, the eye has been produced by you for the sons of the Conqueror, the sectarians are without ingenuity, you are the foremost among the excellent teachers."

The Third Question about Showing the Male Organ.

4.

The Question About the Absence of Harsh Speech

4. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Elder Sāriputta, the general of the Teaching: 'Friends, the Truth Finder's verbal conduct is pure, there is no verbal misconduct of the Truth Finder that the Truth Finder would need to protect thinking "Let no one else know this about me".' Yet again the Truth Finder, when laying down the first defeat offence regarding the wrongdoing of the Elder Sudinna Kalandaputta, addressed him with harsh speech calling him a foolish man, and because of that the Elder, being constrained by the dejection of mind due to being called a foolish man, became remorseful and was unable to penetrate the noble path. If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Truth Finder's verbal conduct is pure, there is no verbal misconduct of the Truth Finder, then that statement that the Truth Finder addressed the Elder Sudinna Kalandaputta with the term 'foolish man' regarding his wrongdoing is wrong. If the Blessed One addressed the Elder Sudinna Kalandaputta with the term 'foolish man' regarding his wrongdoing, then that statement that the Truth Finder's verbal conduct is pure, there is no verbal misconduct of the Truth Finder is also wrong. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"This was spoken, great king, by the Elder Sāriputta, the general of the Teaching: 'Friends, the Truth Finder's verbal conduct is pure, there is no verbal misconduct of the Truth Finder that the Truth Finder would need to protect thinking "Let no one else know this about me".' When laying down the first defeat offence regarding the wrongdoing of the Venerable Sudinna Kalandaputta, the Blessed One addressed him with the term 'foolish man', and that was with a mind free from hatred, without vehemence, with the characteristic as it really is. And what is there the characteristic as it really is? Great king, for a person who in this individual existence does not have the breakthrough to the four truths, his personhood is foolish, what is done by one becomes another, therefore he is called a 'foolish man'. Thus, great king, the Blessed One addressed the Venerable Sudinna Kalandaputta with truthful speech, not with false doctrine."

"Even naturally, Venerable Nāgasena, when one speaks abusively, we impose a fine of one kahāpaṇa on him, it is indeed an offence when based on a matter he uses a separate expression and abuses." "But great king, have you heard before of welcoming, rising up for, honouring, or giving gifts to one who has stumbled?" "No, Venerable Sir, whoever has stumbled anywhere at any time deserves reproach and rebuke. They cut off even his head, and they kill him, imprison him, slay him, and burn him." "Then, great king, the Blessed One did action only, not inaction."

"Venerable Nāgasena, even when doing an action, it should be done appropriately and suitably. Venerable Nāgasena, even by hearing the Truth Finder the world with its deities feels moral dread and shame, even more by seeing him, and still more by approaching and attending on him." "But great king, does a physician give soothing medicines when the body is congested and the humours are disturbed?" "No, Venerable Sir, he gives sharp, scraping medicines." "Even so, great king, the Truth Finder gives instruction for the calming of all defilements and diseases, and great king, even harsh speech of the Truth Finder soothes beings, makes them soft. Just as, great king, even hot water soothes whatever can be soothed, makes it soft, even so, great king, even harsh speech of the Truth Finder is beneficial, accompanied by compassion. Just as, great king, a father's speech to his children is beneficial, accompanied by compassion, even so, great king, even harsh speech of the Truth Finder is beneficial, accompanied by compassion. Even harsh speech of the Truth Finder, great king, leads to the abandoning of defilements for beings. Just as, great king, even foul-smelling cow's urine when drunk and bitter medicine when eaten destroy disease in beings, even so, great king, even harsh speech of the Truth Finder is beneficial, accompanied by compassion. Just as, great king, even a great mass of cotton falling on another's body does not cause pain, even so, great king, even harsh speech of the Truth Finder does not cause suffering to anyone." "Well decided, Venerable Nāgasena, is the question with many reasons. Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Question about the Absence of Harsh Speech, fourth.

5.

The Question About the Tree's Lack of Consciousness

5. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Truth Finder -

And again it was said:

"If, Venerable Nāgasena, a tree is without consciousness, then the statement that the Phandana tree conversed with Bhāradvāja is wrong. If the Phandana tree conversed with Bhāradvāja, then that statement that a tree is without consciousness is also wrong. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'a tree is without consciousness', and the Phandana tree conversed with Bhāradvāja, but that statement was spoken according to conventional usage. There is no conversation, great king, with a tree that is without consciousness, however, great king, this is a designation for the deity dwelling in that tree as 'tree', and this is a conventional expression 'the tree converses', just as, great king, people express a cart filled with grain as 'grain-cart', but that cart is not made of grain, the cart is made of wood, but because grain is heaped in that cart people express it as 'grain-cart', even so, great king, the tree does not converse, the tree is without consciousness, but for the deity that dwells in that tree, that is its designation as 'tree', and this is a conventional expression 'the tree converses'.

"Moreover, great king, just as when churning curd one expresses 'I am churning buttermilk', it is not buttermilk that he churns, while churning curd he expresses 'I am churning buttermilk', even so, great king, the tree does not converse, the tree is without consciousness. But for the deity that dwells in that tree, that is its designation as 'tree', and this is a conventional expression 'the tree converses'.

"Moreover, great king, just as one wishing to prove what is not true expresses 'I am proving what is true', expresses what is not accomplished as accomplished, thus this is worldly convention, even so, great king, the tree does not converse, the tree is without consciousness. But for the deity that dwells in that tree, that is its designation as 'tree', and this is a conventional expression 'the tree converses', by which conventional expression, great king, people express themselves, and the Truth Finder too teaches the Teaching to beings by that same conventional expression." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Question about the Tree's Lack of Consciousness, the fifth.

6.

The Question About the Great Fruit of Almsfood

6. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Elder compilers of the Teaching -

"Again it was spoken by the Blessed One: 'These two almsmeals, Ānanda, are equal in fruit, equal in result, and are far more fruitful and beneficial than other almsmeals. Which two? The almsmeal after consuming which the Truth Finder awakens to unsurpassed perfect enlightenment, and the almsmeal after consuming which the Truth Finder attains final Nibbāna in the element of Nibbāna without residue. These two almsmeals are equal in fruit, equal in result, and are far more fruitful and beneficial than other almsmeals. If, Venerable Nāgasena, after eating Cunda's meal a severe affliction arose in the Blessed One, intense feelings occurred leading to death, then that statement 'These two almsmeals, Ānanda, are equal in fruit, equal in result, and are far more fruitful and beneficial than other almsmeals' is wrong. If these two almsmeals are equal in fruit, equal in result, and are far more fruitful and beneficial than other almsmeals, then that statement that after eating Cunda's meal a severe affliction arose in the Blessed One, intense feelings occurred leading to death is also wrong. But Venerable Nāgasena, was that almsmeal fruitful because it contained poison, fruitful because it caused illness, fruitful because it destroyed life, fruitful because it took the Blessed One's life? Tell me the reason for this to refute other doctrines, for here people are confused, thinking that bloody dysentery arose from eating too much due to greed. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"This too was spoken by the Elder monks who compiled the Teaching -

And it was spoken by the Blessed One: 'These two almsmeals, Ānanda, are equal in fruit, equal in result, and are far more fruitful and beneficial than other almsmeals. Which two? The almsmeal after consuming which the Truth Finder awakens to unsurpassed perfect enlightenment, and the almsmeal after consuming which the Truth Finder attains final Nibbāna in the element of Nibbāna without residue. These two almsmeals are equal in fruit, equal in result, and are far more fruitful and beneficial than other almsmeals.

And that almsmeal is of many virtues and numerous benefits. The deities, great king, delighted and with minds pleased, sprinkled divine essence into the pork delicacy thinking 'This is the Blessed One's last almsfood'. And that was properly cooked, easily digestible, agreeable, full of flavour, beneficial for the digestive fire. Great king, no unarisen illness arose for the Blessed One due to that, however, great king, when the Blessed One's body was naturally weak and the life-force was exhausted, the arisen illness increased further.

"Just as, great king, a naturally burning fire blazes up further when other fuel is given, even so, great king, when the Blessed One's body was naturally weak and the life-force was exhausted, the arisen illness increased further.

"Moreover, great king, just as a stream naturally flowing becomes a great flood carrying more water when a great rain cloud pours down, even so, great king, when the Blessed One's body was naturally weak and the life-force was exhausted, the arisen illness increased further.

"Moreover, great king, just as a stomach with naturally excessive elements would become more distended when something else is swallowed, even so, great king, when the Blessed One's body was naturally weak and the life-force was exhausted, the arisen illness increased further. There was no fault, great king, in that almsfood, and it is not possible to attribute fault to it."

"Venerable Nāgasena, for what reason are these two almsmeals equal in fruit, equal in result, and far more fruitful and beneficial than other almsmeals?" "Great king, due to the power of entering into and reviewing the states, these two almsmeals are equal in fruit, equal in result, and are far more fruitful and beneficial than other almsmeals."

"Venerable Nāgasena, by the power of entering into and reviewing which states are these two almsmeals equal in fruit, equal in result, and far more fruitful and beneficial than other almsmeals?" "Great king, due to the power of entering forward and backward into the nine progressive meditative attainments, these two almsmeals are equal in fruit, equal in result, and are far more fruitful and beneficial than other almsmeals."

"Venerable Nāgasena, did the Truth Finder enter forward and backward into the nine progressive meditative attainments intensely only on these two days?" "Yes, great king." "Wonderful, Venerable Sir Nāgasena, marvellous, Venerable Sir Nāgasena. That in this Buddha-field the incomparable supreme gift is not counted among these two almsfoods. Wonderful, Venerable Sir Nāgasena, marvellous, Venerable Sir Nāgasena. How great are the nine progressive meditative attainments, that by the power of the nine progressive meditative attainments a gift becomes of greater fruit and greater benefit. Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Question about the Great Fruit of Almsfood is sixth.

7.

The Question About Honouring the Buddha

7. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Truth Finder: 'You, Ānanda, should not concern yourselves with the veneration of the Truth Finder's body.' And again it was said:

"If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Truth Finder said: 'You, Ānanda, should not concern yourselves with the veneration of the Truth Finder's body', then the statement 'Honour the element of the one worthy of honour; thus doing you will go from here to heaven' is wrong. If the Truth Finder said: 'Honour the element of the one worthy of honour; thus doing you will go from here to heaven', then that statement 'You, Ānanda, should not concern yourselves with the veneration of the Truth Finder's body' is also wrong. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'You, Ānanda, should not concern yourselves with the veneration of the Truth Finder's body', and again it was said: 'Honour the element of the one worthy of honour; thus doing you will go from here to heaven', but that statement 'You, Ānanda, should not concern yourselves with the veneration of the Truth Finder's body' was not spoken with reference to all sons of the Conqueror. This is not the work of the sons of the Conqueror, great king, namely veneration; exploration of formations, careful attention, contemplation of the foundations of mindfulness, grasping the essence of the object, battle with defilements, pursuit of one's own good - this is what should be done by the sons of the Conqueror, veneration should be done by the remaining deities and human beings.

"Just as, great king, what should be done by princes on earth is training in elephants, horses, chariots, bows, swords, writing, seals, learning, weapons, mantras, tradition, warfare and fighting, while what should be done by the remaining many merchants and workers is farming, trade and cattle-keeping, even so, great king, this is not the work of the sons of the Conqueror, namely veneration; exploration of formations, careful attention, contemplation of the foundations of mindfulness, grasping the essence of the object, battle with defilements, pursuit of one's own good - this is what should be done by the sons of the Conqueror, veneration should be done by the remaining deities and human beings.

"Moreover, great king, just as brahmin students should train in the Rigveda, Yajurveda, Sāmaveda, Atharvaveda, marks, history, ancient lore, vocabulary, ritual science, phonology, terms, grammar, oral tradition, omens, dreams, signs, the six branches, lunar eclipse, solar eclipse, the course of Venus and Rāhu, stellar warfare, sound of divine drums, descent, falling meteors, earthquakes, burning of quarters, terrestrial and atmospheric phenomena, astronomy, materialism, wheel of truth, animal wheel, intermediate wheel, mixed phenomena, cries and calls of birds, while what should be done by the remaining many merchants and workers is farming, trade and cattle-keeping, even so, great king, this is not the work of the sons of the Conqueror, namely veneration; exploration of formations, careful attention, contemplation of the foundations of mindfulness, grasping the essence of the object, battle with defilements, pursuit of one's own good - this is what should be done by the sons of the Conqueror, veneration should be done by the remaining deities and human beings. Therefore, great king, the Truth Finder said 'Let these not engage in what is not their work, let these engage in their work' when he said 'You, Ānanda, should not concern yourselves with the veneration of the Truth Finder's body'." "Great king, if the Truth Finder had not said this, the monks would use up even their own bowls and robes just doing homage to the Buddha." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Question about Honouring the Buddha is seventh.

8.

The Question About the Stone Splinter that Struck the Foot

8. "Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'when the Blessed One walks, this unconscious great earth rises where it is low and sinks where it is high', yet again you say 'the Blessed One's foot was cut by a stone splinter'. That stone splinter that fell on the Blessed One's foot, why did that stone splinter not turn away from the Blessed One's foot? If, Venerable Nāgasena, when the Blessed One walks, this unconscious great earth rises where it is low and sinks where it is high, then the statement that 'the Blessed One's foot was cut by a stone splinter' is wrong. If the Blessed One's foot was cut by a stone splinter, then that statement that 'when the Blessed One walks, this unconscious great earth rises where it is low and sinks where it is high' is also wrong. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"True, great king, it is the case that when the Blessed One walks, this unconscious great earth rises where it is low and sinks where it is high, and the Blessed One's foot was cut by a stone splinter, but that splinter did not fall by its own nature, it fell through the effort of Devadatta. For many hundreds of thousands of births, great king, Devadatta harbored resentment towards the Blessed One, and with that resentment he released a stone the size of a great mansion thinking 'I will drop it on the Blessed One.' Then two rocks rose from the earth and caught that stone, then by their impact a splinter broke off from the stone and falling in one way or another fell on the Blessed One's foot."

"But Venerable Nāgasena, just as the two rocks caught the stone, shouldn't they have caught the splinter too?" "Even when received, great king, something here flows, trickles and does not remain in place, just as, great king, water taken in the hand flows and trickles through the gaps between the fingers and does not remain in place, milk, buttermilk, honey, ghee, fish soup, meat soup taken in the hand flow and trickle through the gaps between the fingers and do not remain in place, even so, great king, by the impact of the two rocks that had come together to catch it, a splinter broke off from the stone and falling in one way or another fell on the Blessed One's foot.

"Moreover, great king, just as fine, subtle, atom-like sand taken in the fist flows and trickles through the gaps between the fingers and does not remain in place, even so, great king, by the impact of the two rocks that had come together to catch it, a splinter broke off from the stone and falling in one way or another fell on the Blessed One's foot.

"Moreover, great king, just as a morsel taken in the mouth sometimes slips from the mouth of someone, flows and trickles and does not remain in place, even so, great king, by the impact of the two rocks that had come together to catch it, a splinter broke off from the stone and falling in one way or another fell on the Blessed One's foot."

"Let it be so, Venerable Nāgasena, the stone was caught by the rocks, but should not respect be shown even to the splinter just as to the great earth?" "There are these twelve, great king, who do not show respect. Which twelve? One full of lust does not show respect due to the power of lust, one full of hatred due to the power of hatred, one deluded due to the power of delusion, one proud due to the power of conceit, one without virtue due to lack of distinction, one very stubborn due to lack of restraint, one inferior due to inferior nature, one who follows orders due to lack of authority, one evil due to stinginess, one who has been hurt due to hurting back, one greedy due to being overcome by greed, one striving due to accomplishing a purpose does not show respect. These, great king, are the twelve who do not show respect. And that splinter, having broken off through the impact of the stones, falling in one direction or another without any particular direction, fell on the Blessed One's foot.

"Moreover, great king, just as fine, subtle, atomic dust struck by the force of wind scatters in one direction or another without any particular direction, even so, great king, that splinter, having broken off through the impact of the stones, falling in one direction or another without any particular direction, fell on the Blessed One's foot. Moreover, great king, if that splinter had not been separate from the stone, those rocks would have leapt up and caught that stone splinter too. But this splinter, great king, was neither on the ground nor in the air, having broken off through the force of the impact of the stones, falling in one direction or another without any particular direction, fell on the Blessed One's foot.

Moreover, great king, just as an old leaf lifted up by a whirlwind falls in one direction or another without any particular direction, even so, great king, this splinter through the force of the impact of the stones, falling in one direction or another without any particular direction, fell on the Blessed One's foot. "However, great king, the splinter fell on the Blessed One's foot for the ungrateful and miserly Devadatta to experience suffering." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Eighth Question about the Stone Splinter that Struck the Foot.

9.

The Question About the Foremost Ascetic

9. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One: 'With the destruction of the taints, one becomes an ascetic.' And again it was said:

These are the four qualities: patience, eating little, abandoning delight, and nothingness. All these belong only to one with taints not destroyed, who has defilements. If, Venerable Nāgasena, one becomes an ascetic with the destruction of the taints, then the statement 'Endowed with four qualities, that person they call a recluse in the world' is wrong. If one becomes an ascetic endowed with four qualities, then that statement 'With the destruction of the taints, one becomes an ascetic' is also wrong. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'With the destruction of the taints, one becomes an ascetic.' And again it was said: 'Endowed with four qualities, that person they call a recluse in the world.' That statement, great king, was spoken with reference to the qualities of various individuals: 'Endowed with four qualities, that person they call a recluse in the world', but this is the complete statement: 'With the destruction of the taints, one becomes an ascetic.'

However, great king, whatever persons are practising for the peace from defilements, taking them all into account, the ascetic with taints destroyed is declared foremost. Just as, great king, whatever flowers there are that grow in water or on land, the jasmine is declared foremost among them, whatever remaining various kinds of flowers there are, all those are just flowers, but taking them all into account, the jasmine flower is what is desired and longed for by people. Even so, great king, whatever persons are practising for the peace from defilements, taking them all into account, the ascetic with taints destroyed is declared foremost.

Moreover, great king, rice is declared foremost among all grains, whatever remaining various kinds of grains there are, all those taken into account are foods for maintaining the body, rice is declared foremost among them. Even so, great king, whatever persons are practising for the peace from defilements, taking them all into account, the ascetic with taints destroyed is declared foremost." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Question About the Foremost Ascetic, the ninth.

10.

The Question About Speaking Praise

10. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One: 'Monks, if others speak in praise of me, in praise of the Teaching, or in praise of the Community, you should not feel joy, pleasure, or mental elation.' Yet again when true praise was being spoken by the brahmin Sela, the Truth Finder became joyful, pleased, elated and further proclaimed his own qualities even more:

"If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Blessed One said: 'Monks, if others speak in praise of me, in praise of the Teaching, or in praise of the Community, you should not feel joy, pleasure, or mental elation', then the statement that when true praise was being spoken by the brahmin Sela, he became joyful, pleased, elated and further proclaimed his own qualities even more, is wrong. If when true praise was being spoken by the brahmin Sela, he became joyful, pleased, elated and further proclaimed his own qualities even more, then that statement 'Monks, if others speak in praise of me, in praise of the Teaching, or in praise of the Community, you should not feel joy, pleasure, or mental elation' is also wrong. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'Monks, if others speak in praise of me, in praise of the Teaching, or in praise of the Community, you should not feel joy, pleasure, or mental elation'. And when true praise was being spoken by the brahmin Sela, he proclaimed his own qualities even more:

"First, great king, the Blessed One, illuminating the essential characteristic of the Teaching's true nature which is unerring, what has come to be, actual, and real, said: 'Monks, if others speak in praise of me, in praise of the Teaching, or in praise of the Community, you should not feel joy, pleasure, or mental elation'. When the Blessed One, as true praise was being spoken by the brahmin Sela, proclaimed his own qualities even more: "I am a king, Sela," he said, "an unsurpassed king of the Teaching", that was not because of gain, not because of fame, not because of self, not because of partisanship, not because of wanting disciples, but rather out of compassion, tender concern, and for the welfare thinking "Thus there will be breakthrough to the Teaching for him and the three hundred young men", thus he spoke his own qualities even more: "I am a king, Sela," he said, "an unsurpassed king of the Teaching." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Question About Speaking Praise is tenth.

11.

The Question About Non-harming and Restraint

11. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One: 'Not harming others in the world, you will be dear, one of mine.' And again it was said: 'One should restrain one deserving restraint, one should encourage one deserving encouragement.' Restraint, Venerable Nāgasena, means cutting off hands, cutting off feet, killing, imprisonment, torture, death, disrupting continuity, this statement is not fitting for the Blessed One, and the Blessed One should not speak such a statement. If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Blessed One said: 'Not harming others in the world, you will be dear, one of mine', then the statement 'One should restrain one deserving restraint, one should encourage one deserving encouragement' is wrong. If the Truth Finder said: 'One should restrain one deserving restraint, one should encourage one deserving encouragement', then that statement 'Not harming others in the world, you will be dear, one of mine' is also wrong. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'Not harming others in the world, you will be dear, one of mine', and it was said: 'One should restrain one deserving restraint, one should encourage one deserving encouragement.' 'Not harming others in the world, you will be dear, one of mine' - this, great king, is approved by all Truth Finders, this is the instruction, this is the teaching of the Teaching, for the Teaching, great king, has non-harming as its characteristic, this is a statement of its true nature. But when, great king, the Truth Finder said 'One should restrain one deserving restraint, one should encourage one deserving encouragement', this is an expression: an agitated mind should be restrained, great king, a sluggish mind should be encouraged. An unwholesome mind should be restrained, a wholesome mind should be encouraged. Careless attention should be restrained, careful attention should be encouraged. One practising wrongly should be restrained, one practising rightly should be encouraged. The ignoble should be restrained, the noble should be encouraged. A thief should be restrained, a non-thief should be encouraged."

"Let it be so, Venerable Nāgasena, now you have come back to my domain, what I ask, that meaning has come to me. "But Venerable Nāgasena, how should a thief be restrained when restraining him?" "A thief, great king, when restraining him should be restrained thus: one deserving reproach should be reproached, one deserving punishment should be punished, one deserving banishment should be banished, one deserving imprisonment should be imprisoned, one deserving execution should be executed." "But Venerable Nāgasena, is the execution of thieves approved by the Truth Finders?" "No, great king." "Then why is instruction of a thief approved by the Truth Finders?" "Whoever, great king, is executed, is not executed with the approval of the Truth Finders, he is executed through his own doing, but he is instructed with instruction in the Teaching. But great king, is it possible for you to take and execute a person who has done nothing wrong and is walking on the street?" "It is not possible, Venerable Sir." "For what reason, great king?" "Because of not having done anything, Venerable Sir." "Even so, great king, a thief is not killed with the approval of the Truth Finders, he is killed through his own doing. Does the instructor incur any fault in this?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Then, great king, the instruction of the Truth Finders is right instruction." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Question about Non-harming and Restraint is eleventh.

12.

The Question About the Dismissal of the Monks

12. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One: 'I am without anger, free from barrenness', yet again the Truth Finder dismissed the Elders Sāriputta and Moggallāna with their assembly. Was it, Venerable Nāgasena, that the Truth Finder dismissed the assembly when angry, or did he dismiss them when pleased? First know this to be such! If, Venerable Nāgasena, he dismissed the assembly when angry, then anger was not removed from the Truth Finder. If he dismissed them when pleased, then they were dismissed without basis, without knowing. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'I am without anger, free from barrenness', and the Elders Sāriputta and Moggallāna were dismissed with their assembly, but that was not through anger. Here, great king, if some person were to stumble and fall on the great earth due to a root or stake or stone or gravel or uneven ground, but great king, does the great earth make him fall through anger?" "No, Venerable Sir, the great earth has neither anger nor confidence, the great earth is free from attraction and aversion, he himself being lazy stumbled and fell." Even so, great king, the Truth Finders have neither anger nor confidence, the Truth Finders, Accomplished Ones, Perfectly Enlightened Ones are free from attraction and aversion, rather through their own doing they are dismissed due to their own offense.

"But here, great king, the great ocean does not coexist with a dead corpse; whatever dead corpse there is in the great ocean, it quickly throws it out and washes it up on land. "But great king, does the great ocean throw out that corpse through anger?" "No, Venerable Sir, the great ocean has neither anger nor confidence, the great ocean is free from attraction and aversion." "Even so, great king, the Truth Finders have neither anger nor confidence, the Truth Finders, Accomplished Ones, Perfectly Enlightened Ones are free from attraction and aversion, rather through their own doing they are dismissed due to their own offense.

"Just as, great king, one who stumbles on the earth falls, so one who stumbles in the excellent Teaching of the Conqueror is dismissed. Just as, great king, a dead corpse is cast out in the ocean, so one who stumbles in the excellent Teaching of the Conqueror is dismissed. But when the Truth Finder dismissed them, great king, wishing their good, welfare, happiness and purification, he dismissed them thinking 'Thus these will be freed from birth, aging, sickness and death.' "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Question about the Dismissal of the Monks is twelfth.

The Third Chapter on Dismissal.

In this chapter there are twelve questions.

4.

The Chapter on Omniscient Knowledge

1.

Question About Spiritual Power and Result of Action

1. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One: 'This is the foremost of my monk disciples in spiritual powers, that is, Mahāmoggallāna.' Yet it is said that he was beaten to death with clubs, his head broken, his bones, flesh, sinews and body parts crushed, and thus attained final Nibbāna. If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Elder Mahāmoggallāna had reached the peak of spiritual power, then the statement that he was beaten to death and attained final Nibbāna is wrong. If he attained final Nibbāna after being beaten to death, then that statement that he reached the peak of spiritual power is also wrong. Was he not able through spiritual power to ward off harm to himself, is he worthy to be a refuge for even the world with its deities? This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'This is the foremost of my monk disciples in spiritual powers, that is, Mahāmoggallāna.' The Venerable Mahāmoggallāna attained final Nibbāna after being struck with a club, and that was through being seized by action.

"But Venerable Nāgasena, both the domain of spiritual power of one with spiritual power and the result of action are two unthinkables, an unthinkable should be removed by an unthinkable. Just as, Venerable Sir, some desiring fruit strike wood-apple with wood-apple, strike mango with mango, even so, Venerable Nāgasena, an unthinkable should be struck with an unthinkable and removed?" "Of the unthinkables, great king, one is superior and stronger, just as, great king, there are kings on earth of equal birth, yet of those of equal birth one exercises authority having overcome all. Even so, great king, of those unthinkables the result of action itself is superior and stronger, the result of action itself exercises authority having overcome all, other actions do not get opportunity for one seized by action.

"But here, great king, if someone commits an offense in some matter, neither his mother nor father nor sister nor brothers nor female friend nor companions protect him, rather the king alone exercises authority there having overcome. What is the reason there? Being at fault. Even so, great king, of those unthinkables the result of action itself is superior and stronger, the result of action itself exercises authority having overcome all, other actions do not get opportunity for one seized by action.

Moreover, great king, just as when a forest fire has arisen on earth even a thousand pots of water cannot extinguish it, rather the fire alone exercises authority there having overcome. What is the reason there? Due to the power of heat. Even so, great king, of those unthinkables the result of action itself is superior and stronger, the result of action itself exercises authority having overcome all, other actions do not get opportunity for one seized by action, therefore, great king, when the Venerable Mahāmoggallāna was being beaten with clubs, seized by the result of action, there was no bringing to mind of spiritual power." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

First Question about Spiritual Power and Result of Action.

2.

The Question About the Teaching and Discipline Being Concealed or Unconcealed

2. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One: 'The Teaching and Discipline proclaimed by the Truth Finder, monks, shines when revealed, not when concealed.' Yet again the recitation of the code of monastic rules and the entire basket of discipline is closed, concealed. If, Venerable Nāgasena, it would obtain a suitable or proper occasion in the Conqueror's Dispensation, the laying down of discipline would shine when revealed. For what reason? Therein is entirely training, self-control, restraint, precepts, qualities, rules of conduct, the taste of good, taste of Teaching, taste of liberation. If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Blessed One said: 'The Teaching and Discipline proclaimed by the Truth Finder, monks, shines when revealed, not when concealed', then the statement 'the recitation of the code of monastic rules and the entire basket of discipline is closed, concealed' is wrong. If the recitation of the code of monastic rules and the entire basket of discipline is closed, concealed, then that statement 'The Teaching and Discipline proclaimed by the Truth Finder, monks, shines when revealed, not when concealed' is also wrong. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'The Teaching and Discipline proclaimed by the Truth Finder, monks, shines when revealed, not when concealed.' Yet again the recitation of the code of monastic rules and the entire basket of discipline is closed, concealed, but that is not for everyone, it is closed within a boundary.

"Great king, the Blessed One closed the recitation of the code of monastic rules within a boundary in three ways: the recitation of the code of monastic rules is closed within a boundary due to the lineage of previous Truth Finders, closed due to the gravity of the Teaching, closed due to the gravity of the plane of monks.

"How is the recitation of the code of monastic rules closed within a boundary due to the lineage of previous Truth Finders? This, great king, is the lineage of all previous Truth Finders, namely that the recitation of the code of monastic rules is in the midst of monks, closed to the rest. Just as, great king, the magic of nobles circulates only among nobles, this is the tradition of nobles in the world, closed to the rest. Even so, great king, this is the lineage of all previous Truth Finders, namely that the recitation of the code of monastic rules is in the midst of monks, closed to the rest.

"Moreover, great king, there are groups in the world, that is: the Mallas, Atoṇas, Pabbatas, Dhammagiriyas, Brahmagiriyas, actors, dancers, acrobats, demons, Maṇibhaddas, Puṇṇabaddhas, moon and sun deities, fortune deities, time deities, Sivas, Vasudevas, cloud spirits, sword-holders, and sons of Bhaddi - their secrets circulate only in those respective groups, closed to the rest. Even so, great king, this is the lineage of all previous Truth Finders, namely that the recitation of the code of monastic rules is in the midst of monks, closed to the rest. Thus the recitation of the code of monastic rules is closed within a boundary due to the lineage of previous Truth Finders.

"How is the recitation of the code of monastic rules closed within a boundary due to the gravity of the Teaching? The Teaching, great king, is weighty and grave. One who practises rightly in it pleases another, one attains it there through successive right practice, one does not attain it there through successive right practice. Let not this essential Teaching, excellent Teaching, having come into the hands of those who do not practise rightly, be despised, disregarded, scorned, mocked and blamed. Let not this essential Teaching, excellent Teaching, having come to bad people, be despised, disregarded, scorned, mocked and blamed. Thus due to the gravity of the Teaching the recitation of the code of monastic rules is closed within a boundary.

Just as, great king, the excellent supreme well-born red sandalwood having come to a city of outcasts would be despised, disregarded, scorned, mocked and blamed, even so, great king, let not this essential Teaching, excellent Teaching, having come into the hands of those who do not successively practise rightly, be despised, disregarded, scorned, mocked and blamed. Let not this essential Teaching, excellent Teaching, having come to bad people, be despised, disregarded, scorned, mocked and blamed. Thus due to the gravity of the Teaching the recitation of the code of monastic rules is closed within a boundary.

"How is the recitation of the code of monastic rules closed within a boundary due to the gravity of the plane of monks? Great king, monkhood in the world is incomparable, immeasurable, priceless, and no one can value it, weigh it, or measure it. Thinking 'Let not one established in such a monkhood be equal with the world,' the recitation of the code of monastic rules circulates only among monks. Just as, great king, in the world excellent supreme goods such as cloth or carpets, or elephants, horses, chariots, gold, silver, jewels, pearls, women-jewels and so forth, or those victorious and skilled in work, all these come to the king, even so, great king, whatever qualities of good destination, tradition, learning, conduct, restraint, virtuous behavior and control there are in the world, all these come to the Community of monks. Thus due to the gravity of the plane of monks the recitation of the code of monastic rules is closed within a boundary." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Second Question about the Teaching and Discipline being Concealed or Unconcealed.

3.

The Question About the Serious and Light Nature of False Speech

3. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One: 'For deliberate false speech, one becomes defeated.' And again it was said: 'For deliberate false speech, one commits a light offence that requires confession in the presence of one person.' Venerable Nāgasena, what is the distinction here, what is the reason, that by one false speech one is cut off, and by one false speech one can be cured with a hundred remedies? If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Blessed One said: 'For deliberate false speech, one becomes defeated', then the statement 'For deliberate false speech, one commits a light offence that requires confession in the presence of one person' is wrong. If the Truth Finder said: 'For deliberate false speech, one commits a light offence that requires confession in the presence of one person', then that statement 'For deliberate false speech, one becomes defeated' is also wrong. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'For deliberate false speech, one becomes defeated.' And it was said 'For deliberate false speech, one commits a light offence that requires confession in the presence of one person', and that becomes serious or light according to the case. "What do you think, great king, if some person here were to strike another person with his hand, what punishment would you impose on him?" "If he, Venerable Sir, says 'I do not pardon', we make the unforgiving one take a kahāpaṇa." "But here, great king, if that same person were to strike you with his hand, what would be his punishment?" "We would have his hand cut off, Venerable Sir, we would have his foot cut off, we would have him beheaded, we would have that entire house plundered, we would have both sides up to the seventh generation exterminated." "What is the distinction here, great king, what is the reason, that for striking one person with the hand the punishment is a small kahāpaṇa, while for striking you with the hand there is cutting off of hands, cutting off of feet, up to beheading, seizure of the entire house, extermination of both sides up to the seventh generation?" "Because of the difference in persons, Venerable Sir." "Even so, great king, deliberate false speech becomes serious or light according to the case." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The third question, about the serious and light nature of false speech.

4.

Question About the Nature of Future Buddhas

4. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One in the Teaching discourse on natural law: 'For future Buddhas, the parents are already fixed in destiny, the enlightenment is fixed in destiny, the chief disciples are fixed in destiny, the son is fixed in destiny, the attendant is fixed in destiny.' Yet again you say 'Standing in the Tusita realm, the future Buddha examines eight great observations: he examines the time, he examines the continent, he examines the region, he examines the family, he examines the mother, he examines the life span, he examines the month, he examines the renunciation.' Venerable Nāgasena, when knowledge is not mature there is no awakening, when knowledge is mature one cannot wait even for a moment, mature mind cannot be delayed. Why does the future Buddha examine the time thinking 'At what time shall I arise?' When knowledge is not mature there is no awakening, when knowledge is mature one cannot wait even for a moment, why does the future Buddha examine the family thinking 'In what family shall I arise?' If, Venerable Nāgasena, the parents of the future Buddha are already fixed in destiny, then the statement that 'he examines the family' is wrong. If he examines the family, then that statement 'the parents of the future Buddha are already fixed in destiny' is also wrong. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"Great king, the parents of the future Buddha are fixed in destiny, and the future Buddha examines the family. And how does he examine the family 'Are my parents nobles or brahmins?' Thus he examines the family.

"Great king, for eight things the future must be examined beforehand. Which eight? Great king, a merchant must examine his merchandise beforehand, an elephant must examine with its trunk the path ahead beforehand, a carter must examine the ford ahead beforehand, a helmsman must examine the shore ahead and then direct the ship, a physician must examine the life span beforehand and then approach the patient, one must know whether a bridge is firm or weak beforehand and then cross it, a monk must reflect on the future time beforehand and then eat his meal, future Buddhas must examine the family beforehand 'whether it is a noble family or a brahmin family.' Great king, for these eight things the future must be examined beforehand." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

Question about the Nature of Future Buddhas, fourth.

5.

The Question About Causing One's Own Death

5. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One: 'Monks, one should not cause one's own death. Whoever causes it should be dealt with according to the Teaching.' Yet again you say 'Wherever the Blessed One, when teaching the Teaching to disciples, teaches in various ways the Teaching for the complete cutting off of birth, aging, disease and death, and whoever transcends birth, aging, disease and death, he praises with the highest praise.' If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Blessed One said: 'Monks, one should not cause one's own death. Whoever causes it should be dealt with according to the Teaching', then the statement that 'he teaches the Teaching for the complete cutting off of birth, aging, disease and death' is wrong. If he teaches the Teaching for the complete cutting off of birth, aging, disease and death, then that statement 'Monks, one should not cause one's own death. Whoever causes it should be dealt with according to the Teaching' is also wrong. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'Monks, one should not cause one's own death. Whoever causes it should be dealt with according to the Teaching.' Wherever the Blessed One, when teaching the Teaching to disciples, teaches in various ways the Teaching for the complete cutting off of birth, aging, disease and death, therein there is a reason why the Blessed One both prohibited and encouraged.

"But what, Venerable Nāgasena, is the reason here why the Blessed One both prohibited and encouraged?" "Great king, one who is virtuous, accomplished in virtue, is like medicine in destroying beings' poisonous defilements, like a remedy in calming beings' affliction of defilements, like water in washing away beings' dust and dirt of defilements, like a jewel in giving beings all success, like a ship in carrying beings across the four floods, like a caravan leader in leading beings across the desert of birth, like wind in extinguishing beings' threefold fire of torment, like a great cloud in fulfilling beings' wishes, like a teacher in training beings in what is wholesome, like a good guide in pointing out the path of security to beings. Great king, the Blessed One, out of compassion for beings thinking 'Let such a one of many qualities, of countless qualities, of immeasurable qualities, a mass of qualities, a heap of qualities, who brings growth to beings, who is virtuous, not perish', laid down the training rule: 'Monks, one should not cause one's own death. Whoever causes it should be dealt with according to the Teaching.' This, great king, is the reason for which reason the Blessed One prohibited it. This too was said, great king, by the Elder Kumārakassapa, the skilled speaker, when explaining the next world to Prince Pāyāsi: 'The longer, prince, that ascetics and brahmins who are virtuous and of good character live on, the more merit they generate, and they practise for the welfare of the multitude, for the happiness of the multitude, out of compassion for the world, for the good, welfare, and happiness of devas and humans.'

"But for what reason did the Blessed One encourage it? Great king, birth is suffering, aging is suffering, illness is suffering, death is suffering, sorrow is suffering, lamentation is suffering, pain is suffering, displeasure is suffering, despair is suffering, association with the unloved is suffering, separation from the loved is suffering, death of mother is suffering, death of father is suffering, death of brother is suffering, death of sister is suffering, death of son is suffering, death of wife is suffering, death of slave is suffering, death of relative is suffering, disaster of relatives is suffering, disaster of disease is suffering, disaster of wealth is suffering, disaster of virtue is suffering, disaster of views is suffering, fear of kings is suffering, fear of thieves is suffering, fear of enemies is suffering, fear of famine is suffering, fear of fire is suffering, fear of water is suffering, fear of waves is suffering, fear of whirlpools is suffering, fear of crocodiles is suffering, fear of alligators is suffering, fear of self-reproach is suffering, fear of reproach by others is suffering, fear of punishment is suffering, fear of bad destination is suffering, fear of timidity in assemblies is suffering, fear of livelihood is suffering, fear of death is suffering, being beaten with canes is suffering, being beaten with whips is suffering, being beaten with half-staffs is suffering, cutting off of hands is suffering, cutting off of feet is suffering, cutting off of hands and feet is suffering, cutting off of ears is suffering, cutting off of nose is suffering, cutting off of ears and nose is suffering, the pot of gruel torture is suffering, the polished-shell torture is suffering, the Rāhu's mouth torture is suffering, the garland of fire torture is suffering, the hand torch torture is suffering, the bark dress torture is suffering, the antelope torture is suffering, the flesh-hooking torture is suffering, the coin torture is suffering, the lye pickling torture is suffering, the pivoting bolt torture is suffering, the rolled-up straw mat torture is suffering, sprinkling with hot oil is suffering, being eaten by dogs is suffering, impalement alive is suffering, decapitation with a sword is suffering - great king, one wandering in the round of rebirths experiences such manifold and various kinds of suffering.

"Just as, great king, water that has rained on the Himalaya mountain flows over rocks, pebbles, gravel, sand, whirlpools, rapids, waves, bends, curves, obstacles, hindrances, roots and branches in the river Ganges, even so, great king, one wandering in the round of rebirths experiences such manifold and various kinds of suffering. Great king, occurrence is suffering, non-occurrence is happiness. Great king, showing the benefit of non-occurrence and the peril of occurrence, the Blessed One encouraged the realization of non-occurrence for the transcendence of birth, aging, sickness and death. This, great king, is the reason for which reason the Blessed One encouraged it. "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, the question is well unravelled, the reason well spoken, thus we accept it."

The Question about Causing One's Own Death, the fifth.

6.

Question About the Benefits of the Development of Loving-kindness

6. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One: 'Monks, when liberation of mind through loving-kindness is pursued, developed, cultivated, made a vehicle of, made a basis of, maintained, practised, and properly undertaken, eleven benefits can be expected. What are the eleven? One sleeps well, one wakes up well, one does not see bad dreams, one is dear to human beings, one is dear to non-human beings, deities protect one, neither fire nor poison nor weapons affect one, one's mind quickly becomes concentrated, one's facial complexion becomes clear, one dies unconfused, and if one does not penetrate further, one is reborn in the brahmā world.' Yet again you say 'Prince Sāma, dwelling in loving-kindness, wandering in the wilds surrounded by herds of deer, was shot by King Pīḷiyakkha with a poisoned arrow and fell unconscious right there.'

"If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Blessed One said: 'Monks, when loving-kindness...etc... one is reborn in the brahmā world', then the statement that 'Prince Sāma, dwelling in loving-kindness, wandering in the wilds surrounded by herds of deer, was shot by King Pīḷiyakkha with a poisoned arrow and fell unconscious right there' is wrong. If Prince Sāma, dwelling in loving-kindness, wandering in the wilds surrounded by herds of deer, was shot by King Pīḷiyakkha with a poisoned arrow and fell unconscious right there, then that statement 'Monks, when loving-kindness...etc... weapons affect one' is also wrong. This dilemma with two points is very precise, refined, subtle and profound, it would cause even very precise people to break into a sweat, it has come to you. Disentangle this that is tangled in a great tangle, give vision to future sons of the Conqueror for deliverance."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'Monks, when loving-kindness...etc... weapons affect one'. Prince Sāma, dwelling in loving-kindness, wandering in the wilds surrounded by herds of deer, was shot by King Pīḷiyakkha with a poisoned arrow and fell unconscious right there, but great king, there is a reason for that. What is the reason there? Great king, these are not qualities of the person, these are qualities of the development of loving-kindness. Prince Sāma, great king, was unmindful of the development of loving-kindness at that moment when lifting the pot.

Great king, at the moment when a person is absorbed in loving-kindness, neither fire nor poison nor weapons affect that person at that moment. Whoever wish him harm, having approached do not see him, they do not get an opportunity in him. Great king, these are not qualities of the person, these are qualities of the development of loving-kindness. Here, great king, a warrior having put on an impenetrable coat of mail might enter battle, arrows shot at him having approached fall away and scatter, they do not get an opportunity in him. This, great king, is not a quality of the warrior, this is a quality of the impenetrable coat of mail, that arrows shot having approached fall away and scatter. Even so, great king, these are not qualities of the person, these are qualities of the development of loving-kindness.

Great king, at the moment when a person is absorbed in loving-kindness, neither fire nor poison nor weapons affect that person at that moment. Whoever wish him harm, having approached do not see him, they do not get an opportunity in him. Great king, these are not qualities of the person, these are qualities of the development of loving-kindness. But here, great king, if a person were to make a divine root of disappearance in his hand, as long as that root is in his possession, no other ordinary person sees that person. Great king, this is not a quality of the person, this is a quality of the root of disappearance, that he is not seen in the visual range of ordinary people. Even so, great king, these are not qualities of the person, these are qualities of the development of loving-kindness.

Great king, at the moment when a person is absorbed in loving-kindness, neither fire nor poison nor weapons affect that person at that moment. Whoever wish him harm, having approached do not see him, they do not get an opportunity in him. Great king, these are not qualities of the person, these are qualities of the development of loving-kindness. Moreover, great king, just as when a person has entered a well-made great cave, a great rain cloud raining down is not able to make him wet, this, great king, is not a quality of the person, this is a quality of the great cave, that when the great rain cloud rains down it does not make him wet. Even so, great king, these are not qualities of the person, these are qualities of the development of loving-kindness.

Great king, at the moment when a person is absorbed in loving-kindness, neither fire nor poison nor weapons affect that person at that moment. Whoever wish him harm, having approached do not see him, they are not able to do him harm. Great king, these are not qualities of the person, these are qualities of the development of loving-kindness." "Wonderful, Venerable Sir Nāgasena, marvellous, Venerable Sir Nāgasena, the development of loving-kindness prevents all evil." "Great king, the development of loving-kindness brings all wholesome qualities to both those who wish benefit and those who wish harm, for all those beings bound by consciousness, the development of loving-kindness with its great benefits should be shared."

The Sixth Question about the Benefits of the Development of Loving-kindness.

7.

The Question About the Wholesome, Unwholesome, Righteous and Unrighteous

7. "Venerable Nāgasena, is the result the same for one who does wholesome deeds and one who does unwholesome deeds, or is there some distinction?" "There is a distinction, great king, between the wholesome and the unwholesome. The wholesome, great king, results in happiness and leads to heaven, the unwholesome results in suffering and leads to hell."

"Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'Devadatta was entirely dark, endowed with entirely dark qualities, the future Buddha was entirely bright, endowed with entirely bright qualities'. Again and again in various existences Devadatta was equal to the Bodhisatta in fame and following, sometimes even superior. When Devadatta was the son of the chaplain of King Brahmadatta in the city of Bārāṇasī, then the Bodhisatta was an outcast, a master of true knowledge, who by reciting spells produced mango fruits out of season. Here indeed the Bodhisatta was inferior to Devadatta by birth and inferior in fame.

"Furthermore, when Devadatta was a king, a great monarch endowed with all sensual pleasures, then the Bodhisatta was his bull elephant possessed of all characteristics. Unable to bear its graceful movements and deportment, the king, wishing its death, spoke thus to the elephant trainer: 'Your elephant, teacher, is untrained; make it perform the feat called flying through space.' Here too indeed the Bodhisatta was inferior to Devadatta by birth, being a lowly animal.

"Furthermore, when Devadatta was a human being, a lost wanderer in the wilds, then the Bodhisatta was a monkey named Great Earth. Here too indeed the distinction between a human being and an animal is seen, here too indeed the Bodhisatta was inferior to Devadatta by birth.

"Furthermore, when Devadatta was a human being, a hunter named Soṇuttara, strong and powerful with the strength of an elephant, then the Bodhisatta was the king of elephants named Chaddanta. Then that hunter killed that bull elephant, here too indeed Devadatta was superior.

"Furthermore, when Devadatta was a human being, a forest wanderer living without a home, then the Bodhisatta was a bird, a partridge who recited sacred verses, then too that forest wanderer killed that bird, here too indeed Devadatta was superior by birth.

"Furthermore, when Devadatta was the king of Kāsi named Kalābu, then the Bodhisatta was an ascetic who taught patience. Then that king, angry with that ascetic, had his hands and feet cut off like bamboo shoots; here too indeed Devadatta was superior both by birth and by fame.

"Furthermore, when Devadatta was a human being, a forest wanderer, then the Bodhisatta was the king of monkeys named Nandiya; then too that forest wanderer killed that monkey king together with his mother and younger brother; here too indeed Devadatta was superior by birth.

"Furthermore, when Devadatta was a human being, a naked ascetic named Kārambhiya, then the Bodhisatta was the king of dragons named Paṇḍaraka; here too indeed Devadatta was superior by birth.

"Furthermore, when Devadatta was a human being, a matted-hair ascetic in the wilds, then the Bodhisatta was a great boar named Tacchaka; here too indeed Devadatta was superior by birth.

"Furthermore, when Devadatta was a king named Sūraparicaraka among the Cetis who could travel through the air at the height of a man, then the Bodhisatta was a brahmin named Kapila; here too indeed Devadatta was superior both by birth and by fame.

"Furthermore, when Devadatta was a human being named Sāma, then the Bodhisatta was the king of deer named Ruru; here too indeed Devadatta was superior by birth.

"Furthermore, when Devadatta was a human being, a hunter wandering in the wilds, then the Bodhisatta was a bull elephant, that hunter cut off and took away that bull elephant's tusks seven times; here too indeed Devadatta was superior by realm of rebirth.

"Furthermore, when Devadatta was a jackal following the noble's code, he made all the regional kings throughout Rose-Apple Land his followers, then the Bodhisatta was a wise person named Vidhura; here too indeed Devadatta was superior by fame.

"Furthermore, when Devadatta was a bull elephant and killed the chicks of a quail, then the Bodhisatta too was a bull elephant, a herd leader; there indeed both of them were equal.

"Furthermore, when Devadatta was a spirit named Adhamma, then the Bodhisatta too was a spirit named Dhamma; there indeed both of them were equal.

"Furthermore, when Devadatta was a ship captain, lord of five hundred families, then the Bodhisatta too was a ship captain, lord of five hundred families; there indeed both of them were equal.

"Furthermore, when Devadatta was a caravan leader, lord of five hundred carts, then the Bodhisatta too was a caravan leader, lord of five hundred carts; there indeed both of them were equal.

"Furthermore, when Devadatta was the king of deer named Sākha, then the Bodhisatta too was the king of deer named Nigrodha; there indeed both of them were equal.

"Furthermore, when Devadatta was a general named Sākha, then the Bodhisatta too was a king named Nigrodha; there indeed both of them were equal.

"Furthermore, when Devadatta was a brahmin named Khaṇḍahāla, then the Bodhisatta was a prince named Canda; then indeed that Khaṇḍahāla was superior.

"Furthermore, when Devadatta was a king named Brahmadatta, then the Bodhisatta was his son, a prince named Mahāpaduma, then that king had his own son thrown into the robbers' cliff, since in any case a father is superior and more distinguished than his sons; here too indeed Devadatta was superior.

"Furthermore, when Devadatta was a king named Mahāpatāpa, then the Bodhisatta was his son, a prince named Dhammapāla, then that king had his own son's hands, feet and head cut off; here too indeed Devadatta was superior and more distinguished.

Today both were born in the Sakya clan. The Bodhisatta became the Buddha, omniscient, leader of the world, Devadatta having gone forth in the Dispensation of that deity above deities, having developed spiritual power, made attachment to the Buddha. "But Venerable Nāgasena, what I have spoken, is all that actual or false?"

"What you, great king, have brought forth as many kinds of reasons, all that is exactly so, not otherwise." "If, Venerable Nāgasena, both black and white have the same destiny, then both wholesome and unwholesome have the same result?" "No, great king, wholesome and unwholesome do not have the same result. No, great king, Devadatta was not opposed by all people, he was opposed only by the future Buddha. His opposition to the future Buddha ripens and bears fruit in that very existence. Devadatta too, great king, established in authority, provides protection in the provinces, builds bridges, assembly halls, and meritorious halls, gives gifts as intended to ascetics and brahmins, to the poor, travellers, and beggars, to those with and without protection. As a result of that, he obtains success in existence after existence. Who can say, great king, that without giving, self-control, restraint, and observance of the religious precepts, one will experience success?

"But what you say, great king, 'Devadatta and the future Buddha revolve together', that meeting did not occur after a hundred births, not after a thousand births, not after a hundred thousand births, it occurred only occasionally after many days and nights. Great king, regarding what was shown by the Blessed One with the simile of the blind turtle for obtaining human existence, great king, consider the meeting of these to be similar.

"Great king, the Bodhisatta's association was not only with Devadatta. Great king, the Elder Sāriputta too in many hundreds of thousands of births was the Bodhisatta's father, grandfather, uncle, brother, son, nephew, friend.

"Great king, the Bodhisatta too in many hundreds of thousands of births was the Elder Sāriputta's father, grandfather, uncle, brother, son, nephew, friend. Great king, all beings included in the seven classes, following the stream of the round of rebirths, being carried along by the stream of the round of rebirths, meet with both unloved and loved ones. Just as, great king, water being carried along by a stream meets with both pure and impure, good and bad, even so, great king, all beings included in the seven classes, following the stream of the round of rebirths, being carried along by the stream of the round of rebirths, meet with both unloved and loved ones. Great king, Devadatta being a spirit, being unrighteous himself and having established others in unrighteousness, was tormented in the great hell for fifty-seven crores and sixty hundred thousand years. But great king, the Bodhisatta being a spirit, being righteous himself and having established others in righteousness, rejoiced in heaven endowed with all sensual pleasures for fifty-seven crores and sixty hundred thousand years. However, great king, Devadatta in this existence having attacked the Buddha who should not be attacked and having split the united Community entered the earth, while the Truth Finder having awakened to all things attained final Nibbāna in the extinction of acquisitions." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Question about the Wholesome, Unwholesome, Righteous and Unrighteous is Seventh.

8.

The Question About Amarādevī

8. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One -

"And again it is said 'Amarā, the wife of Mahosadha, a woman placed in a village, her husband being away, sitting in private, secluded, when invited with a thousand by one equal to a king making him her husband, did not do evil.' If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Blessed One said: 'if...etc... with' then that statement 'Mahosadha's wife...etc... did not do' is wrong. If Mahosadha's wife...etc... did not do, then that statement 'if...etc... with' is also wrong. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'if...etc... with'. And it is said 'Mahosadha's wife... etc... did not do.' Great king, would that woman commit an evil action with such a person even if receiving a thousand, she would not do it if she should get a moment or privacy or such an invitation, searching, great king, that woman Amara did not find a moment or privacy or such an invitation.

"Here in this world from fear of blame she did not see a moment, from fear of hell in the next world she did not see a moment, knowing evil has bitter results she did not see a moment, not wanting to let go of her dear one she did not see a moment, due to respect for her husband she did not see a moment, honouring the Teaching she did not see a moment, despising what is ignoble she did not see a moment, not wanting to break proper conduct she did not see a moment. For many such reasons she did not see a moment.

"Even in private, searching in the world and not finding it, she did not do evil. If she were to find privacy from human beings, then she would not find privacy from nonhuman spirits. If she were to find privacy from nonhuman spirits, then she would not find privacy from ascetics who know others' minds. If she were to find privacy from ascetics who know others' minds, then she would not find privacy from deities who know others' minds. If she were to find privacy from deities who know others' minds, then she would not find privacy from evil within herself. If she were to find privacy from evil within herself, then she would not find privacy from what is against the Teaching. Not finding privacy in many such ways, she did not do evil.

"Searching in the world and not finding such an inviter, she did not do evil. Great king, Mahosadha, being wise, was endowed with twenty-eight factors. With which twenty-eight factors was he endowed? Great king, Mahosadha was courageous, had a sense of shame, had fear of wrongdoing, had allies, was rich in friends, was patient, was virtuous, was truthful, was endowed with purity, was without anger, was without arrogance, was without envy, was energetic, was industrious, was hospitable, was generous, was gentle, was humble, was refined, was not deceitful, was not crafty, was endowed with great wisdom, was famous, was endowed with true knowledge, was seeking others' welfare, was wished for by those dependent on him, was wealthy for all people, had fame. Great king, Mahosadha, being wise, was endowed with these twenty-eight factors. Not finding another such inviter, she did not do evil." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Question about Amarādevī is eighth.

9.

The Question About Arahants Not Having Fear

9. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One: 'Arahants are free from fear and dread.' Yet again in the city of Rājagaha when they saw the elephant Dhanapālaka charging at the Blessed One, five hundred with taints destroyed abandoned the excellent Conqueror and fled in various directions, except for the Elder Ānanda. What then, Venerable Nāgasena, did those Arahants flee from fear, did they flee thinking 'It will be known by one's own action' wishing to make the One of Ten Powers fall, or did they flee wishing to see the matchless, vast, incomparable wonder of the Truth Finder? If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Blessed One said: 'Arahants are free from fear and dread', then that statement 'in the city...etc... Ānanda' is wrong. If in the city of Rājagaha when they saw the elephant Dhanapālaka charging at the Blessed One, five hundred with taints destroyed abandoned the excellent Conqueror and fled in various directions, except for the Elder Ānanda, then that statement 'Arahants are free from fear and dread' is also wrong. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'Arahants are free from fear and dread', and in the city of Rājagaha when they saw the elephant Dhanapālaka charging at the Blessed One, five hundred with taints destroyed abandoned the excellent Conqueror and fled in various directions, except for the Elder Ānanda, but that was not from fear, nor from wishing to make the Blessed One fall.

"But, great king, the reason by which Arahants might fear or be terrified, that reason has been cut off in Arahants, therefore Arahants are free from fear and terror. Does the great earth fear, great king, when being dug, broken, held up, or at the ocean, mountain or mountain peak?" "No, Venerable Sir." "For what reason, great king?" "There is no reason, Venerable Sir, by which the great earth might fear or be terrified." "Even so, great king, there is no reason by which Arahants might fear or be terrified."

"Does a mountain peak fear, great king, when being cut, broken, falling, or being burned with fire?" "No, Venerable Sir." "For what reason, great king?" "There is no reason, Venerable Sir, by which the mountain peak might fear or be terrified." "Even so, great king, there is no reason by which Arahants might fear or be terrified."

"Even if, great king, in a hundred thousand world systems, whatever beings are included in the seven classes, all of them with swords in hand were to run towards a single Arahant to terrify him, there would not be any alteration in the Arahant's mind. What is the reason? Due to impossibility and lack of opportunity.

"However, great king, those with taints destroyed had this reflection in their minds: 'Today when the most excellent of men, the supreme bull among conquerors, has entered the excellent city, the elephant Dhanapālaka will charge along the street. Without doubt the attendant will not abandon the deity above deities. If we all do not leave the Blessed One, Ānanda's virtue will not become evident, and the bull elephant will not approach the Truth Finder. Come, let us depart. Thus there will be release from the bondage of defilements for this great mass of people, and Ānanda's virtue will become evident.'" "Having seen this benefit, those Arahants departed in various directions." "Well analysed, Venerable Nāgasena, is the question. Thus it is that Arahants have no fear or terror; having seen the benefit, the Arahants departed in various directions."

The Ninth Question About Arahants Not Having Fear

10.

Question About the Buddha's State of Omniscience

10. "Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'the Truth Finder is omniscient'. Yet again you say 'when the Truth Finder had dismissed the Community of monks headed by Sāriputta and Moggallāna, the Sakyans of Cātumā and Brahmā Sahampati, showing the simile of seeds and the simile of young calves, inspired confidence in the Blessed One, made him forgive, made him acquiesce'. But Venerable Nāgasena, were those similes unknown to the Truth Finder, by which similes the Truth Finder was appeased, forgave, became peaceful, acquiesced? If, Venerable Nāgasena, those similes were unknown to the Truth Finder, then the Buddha was not omniscient. If they were known, then he dismissed them forcibly with the intention to test, thus there is lack of compassion in him. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"The Truth Finder is omniscient, great king, and by those similes the Blessed One was pleased, appeased, forgave, became peaceful, acquiesced. The Truth Finder, great king, is the owner of the Teaching, they satisfied, pleased and inspired confidence in the Truth Finder with similes taught by the Truth Finder himself, and the Truth Finder being pleased with them approved saying 'Good'.

"Just as, great king, a woman satisfies, pleases and inspires confidence in her husband with her husband's own wealth, and the husband approves saying 'Good', even so, great king, the Sakyans of Cātumā and Brahmā Sahampati satisfied, pleased and inspired confidence in the Truth Finder with similes taught by the Truth Finder himself, and the Truth Finder being pleased with them approved saying 'Good'."

"Moreover, great king, just as a barber adorning the king's head with the king's own golden comb satisfies, pleases and inspires confidence in the king, and the king being pleased with him approves saying 'Good' and gives whatever is desired, even so, great king, the Sakyans of Cātumā and Brahmā Sahampati satisfied, pleased and inspired confidence in the Truth Finder with similes taught by the Truth Finder himself, and the Truth Finder being pleased with them approved saying 'Good'."

"Moreover, great king, just as a co-resident monk taking almsfood brought by his preceptor and offering it to his preceptor satisfies, pleases and inspires confidence in the preceptor, and the preceptor being pleased with him approves saying 'Good', even so, great king, the Sakyans of Cātumā and Brahmā Sahampati satisfied, pleased and inspired confidence in the Truth Finder with similes taught by the Truth Finder himself, and the Truth Finder being pleased with them approved saying 'Good' and taught the Teaching for release from all suffering." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

Question about the Buddha's State of Omniscience is the tenth.

The Chapter on Omniscient Knowledge is the fourth.

In this chapter there are ten questions.

5.

The Chapter on Association

1.

The Question About Association

1. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One -

Again it was spoken by the Blessed One: 'One should build delightful dwellings, and let the learned dwell there.' "If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Truth Finder said: 'From intimacy fear is born, from dwelling dust arises. Without dwelling, without intimacy, this indeed is the vision of the sage', then the statement 'One should build delightful dwellings, and let the learned dwell there' is wrong. If the Truth Finder said: 'One should build delightful dwellings, and let the learned dwell there', then that statement 'From intimacy fear is born, from dwelling dust arises. Without dwelling, without intimacy, this indeed is the vision of the sage' is also wrong. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'From intimacy fear is born, from dwelling dust arises. Without dwelling, without intimacy, this indeed is the vision of the sage." And it was said: "One should build delightful dwellings, and let the learned dwell there." Great king, what was spoken by the Blessed One: "From intimacy fear is born, from dwelling dust arises. Without dwelling, without intimacy, this indeed is the vision of the sage" - that is a statement of the true nature, a complete statement, an exhaustive statement, a literal statement, fitting for an ascetic, proper for an ascetic, suitable for an ascetic, worthy of an ascetic, within the range of an ascetic, the way of practice for an ascetic, the practice of an ascetic. Just as, great king, a forest deer wandering in the forest grove, without adhesion, without dwelling, lies down wherever it wishes, even so, great king, a monk should reflect: "From intimacy fear is born, from dwelling dust arises. Without dwelling, without intimacy, this indeed is the vision of the sage."

"But great king, what was spoken by the Blessed One: 'One should build delightful dwellings, and let the learned dwell there', that was spoken by the Blessed One seeing two beneficial purposes. Which two? The gift of a dwelling is praised, approved, extolled and commended by all Enlightened Ones, and having given that gift of a dwelling, they will be freed from birth, aging and death. This is the first benefit in the gift of a dwelling.

"Furthermore, when there is a dwelling, Buddhist nuns will have a clear meeting place, seeing will be easy for those wishing to see them, but without a dwelling they will be difficult to see." This is the second benefit in the gift of a dwelling. Seeing these two beneficial purposes, the Blessed One said: "One should build delightful dwellings, and let the learned dwell there," but there a son of the Buddha should not make attachment to a dwelling. "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The First Question about Association.

2.

The Question About Restraint in the Belly

2. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One -

Again it was spoken by the Blessed One: 'But I, Udāyi, sometimes eat this bowl full to the brim and even more.' "If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Blessed One said: 'Let one rise and not be negligent, let one be restrained in the belly', then the statement 'But I, Udāyi, sometimes eat this bowl full to the brim and even more' is wrong. If the Truth Finder said: 'But I, Udāyi, sometimes eat this bowl full to the brim and even more', then that statement 'Let one rise and not be negligent, let one be restrained in the belly' is also wrong. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'Let one rise and not be negligent, let one be restrained in the belly', and it was said: 'But I, Udāyi, sometimes eat this bowl full to the brim and even more'. Great king, what was spoken by the Blessed One: 'Let one rise and not be negligent, let one be restrained in the belly' - that is a statement of the true nature, a complete statement, an exhaustive statement, a literal statement, a factual statement, an accurate statement, a truthful statement, an unerring statement, a sage's statement, a wise one's statement, the Blessed One's statement, an Arahant's statement, a Privately Enlightened One's statement, a Conqueror's statement, an Omniscient One's statement, a statement of the Truth Finder, the Worthy One, the Perfectly Enlightened One.

Great king, one who is unrestrained in the belly kills living beings, takes what is not given, goes to another's wife, speaks falsehood, drinks intoxicants, deprives mother of life, deprives father of life, deprives an Arahant of life, splits the Community, with a corrupted mind draws the blood of a Truth Finder. Did not Devadatta, great king, being unrestrained in the belly, split the Community and accumulate action lasting for an aeon? Having seen many other such reasons like this, great king, the Blessed One said: 'Let one rise and not be negligent, let one be restrained in the belly'.

One who is restrained in the belly, great king, breaks through to the four truths, realizes the four fruits of recluseship, attains mastery in the four analytical knowledges, the eight attainments, and the six direct knowledges, and fulfills the entire Teaching of the recluse. Indeed, great king, did not the young parrot, being restrained in the belly, shake even up to the realm of the Thirty-three and attend upon Sakka, king of deities? Having seen many other such reasons like this, great king, the Blessed One said: 'Let one rise and not be negligent, let one be restrained in the belly'.

But great king, what was spoken by the Blessed One: 'But I, Udāyi, sometimes eat this bowl full to the brim and even more', that was spoken by the Truth Finder, who had done what was to be done, completed the task, achieved the goal, lived the holy life to its conclusion, who was unobstructed, omniscient, self-dependent, referring to himself.

"Just as, great king, for one who has vomited, been purged and had an enema, being sick, beneficial treatment is desired, even so, great king, for one with defilements who has not seen the truth, self-control in eating must be practised. Just as, great king, a luminous jewel-gem that is well-born, naturally pure, does not need polishing, rubbing and cleansing, even so, great king, for the Truth Finder who has gone to perfection in the domain of enlightenment, there is no obstruction in performing actions." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Question about Restraint in the Belly is second.

3.

The Question About the Buddha's Afflictions

3. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One: 'I am, monks, a brahmin who is worthy of gifts, always with clean hands, bearing my final body, the unsurpassed physician, the surgeon.' And again it was said by the Blessed One: 'This is the foremost of my monk disciples in freedom from affliction, that is, Bākula.' And many times affliction is seen to have arisen in the Blessed One's body. If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Truth Finder is unsurpassed, then that statement 'This is the foremost...etc... Bākula' is wrong. If Elder Bākula is foremost of those free from affliction, then that statement 'I am...etc... surgeon' is also wrong. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'I am...etc... surgeon", and it was said "foremost...etc... Bākula", and that was spoken with reference to the existence in himself of external traditions, achievements and learning.

"There are indeed, great king, disciples of the Blessed One who stand and walk back and forth, they spend day and night in standing and walking back and forth, but the Blessed One, great king, spends day and night in standing, walking back and forth, sitting and lying down, those monks, great king, who stand and walk back and forth, they are superior in that factor.

"There are indeed, great king, disciples of the Blessed One who eat at one sitting, they would not take a second meal even for the sake of life, but the Blessed One, great king, takes a second and even a third meal, those monks, great king, who eat at one sitting, they are superior in that factor. There are, great king, many such reasons spoken with reference to this and that for these and those. But the Blessed One, great king, is unsurpassed in virtue, concentration, wisdom, liberation, and knowledge and vision of liberation, and with the ten powers, the four grounds of self-confidence, the eighteen qualities of enlightenment, the six unshared knowledges, and in the entire domain of enlightenment. With reference to this it was said "I am...etc... the surgeon."

"Here, great king, among human beings one is well-born, one is wealthy, one is learned, one is skilled, one is brave, one is wise, surpassing all these the king alone is supreme among them. Even so, great king, the Blessed One is foremost, eldest, best of all beings.

"That the Venerable Bākula was of few afflictions was due to his resolution, for, great king, when stomach wind affliction arose in the Blessed One Anomadassī, and when grass-flower disease arose in the Blessed One Vipassī and in six million eight hundred thousand monks, he himself, being an ascetic at that time, removed that illness with various medicines and attained the state of few afflictions, and it was said 'foremost...etc... Bākula."

"Great king, whether illness arises or does not arise in the Blessed One, whether he undertakes or does not undertake ascetic practices, there is no being similar to the Blessed One. This was spoken by the Blessed One, the deity above deities, in the excellent Connected Discourses -

"'Monks, among whatever beings there are - whether footless or with two feet or four feet or many feet, whether having form or formless, whether percipient or non-percipient or neither-percipient-nor-non-percipient - the Truth Finder, the Arahant, the Perfectly Enlightened One is declared foremost among them.'" "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Question about the Buddha's Afflictions, the third.

4.

The Question About Path Production

4. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One: 'The Truth Finder, monks, the Worthy One, the Perfectly Enlightened One is the producer of the unproduced path.' And again it was said: 'I saw, monks, an ancient path, an ancient road traversed by the perfectly Enlightened Ones of former times.' If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Truth Finder is the producer of the unproduced path, then that statement 'I saw, monks, an ancient path, an ancient road traversed by the perfectly Enlightened Ones of former times' is wrong. If the Truth Finder said: 'I saw, monks, an ancient path, an ancient road traversed by the perfectly Enlightened Ones of former times', then that statement 'The Truth Finder, monks, the Worthy One, the Perfectly Enlightened One is the producer of the unproduced path' is also wrong. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'The Truth Finder, monks, the Worthy One, the Perfectly Enlightened One is the producer of the unproduced path.' And it was said: 'I saw, monks, an ancient path, an ancient road traversed by the perfectly Enlightened Ones of former times', both these statements are true statements, great king, for with the disappearance of previous Truth Finders, when there was no teacher, the path disappeared, the Truth Finder saw with the eye of wisdom that path which was broken, ruined, hidden, concealed, covered, impassable, traversed by the perfectly Enlightened Ones of former times, for this reason he said: 'I saw, monks, an ancient path, an ancient road traversed by the perfectly Enlightened Ones of former times.'

"Great king, when with the disappearance of previous Truth Finders there was no teacher, the path was broken, ruined, hidden, concealed, covered, impassable, and now the Truth Finder made it passable, for this reason he said: 'The Truth Finder, monks, the Worthy One, the Perfectly Enlightened One is the producer of the unproduced path.'"

"Here, great king, when a wheel-turning monarch disappears, the jewel-treasure hides in a mountain peak, and approaches another wheel-turning monarch due to right practice, but great king, is that jewel-treasure made by him?" "No, Venerable Sir, that jewel-gem was not just natural, but was produced by that." "Even so, great king, the Blessed One seeing with the eye of wisdom produced the natural auspicious Eightfold Path practised by previous Truth Finders which, when there was no teacher, was broken, ruined, hidden, concealed, covered, impassable, and made it passable, for this reason he said: 'The Truth Finder, monks, the Worthy One, the Perfectly Enlightened One is the producer of the unproduced path'."

"Moreover, great king, just as a mother having given birth to an existing son from the womb is called 'producer', even so, great king, the Truth Finder seeing with the eye of wisdom produced the existing path which was broken, ruined, hidden, concealed, covered, impassable, and made it passable, for this reason he said: 'The Truth Finder, monks, the Worthy One, the Perfectly Enlightened One is the producer of the unproduced path'."

"Moreover, great king, just as when some person sees something that was lost, people express it as 'that article was produced by him', even so, great king, the Truth Finder seeing with the eye of wisdom produced the existing path which was broken, ruined, hidden, concealed, covered, impassable, and made it passable, for this reason he said: 'The Truth Finder, monks, the Worthy One, the Perfectly Enlightened One is the producer of the unproduced path'."

"Moreover, great king, just as when some person having cleared a forest brings forth the ground, people express it as 'that ground is his', though that ground was not produced by him, making that ground the reason he is called owner of the ground, even so, great king, the Truth Finder seeing with wisdom produced the existing path which was broken, ruined, hidden, concealed, covered, impassable, and made it passable, for this reason he said: 'The Truth Finder, monks, the Worthy One, the Perfectly Enlightened One is the producer of the unproduced path'." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Question about Path Production, fourth.

5.

The Question About Non-harming by the Buddha

5. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One: 'Formerly, when I was a human being, I was of a nature not to harm beings.' And again it was said: 'Being the sage named Lomasakassapa, having killed many hundreds of living beings, he offered the great Vājapeyya sacrifice.' If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Blessed One said: 'Formerly, when I was a human being, I was of a nature not to harm beings', then that statement that 'the sage Lomasakassapa, having killed many hundreds of living beings, offered the great Vājapeyya sacrifice' is wrong. If 'the sage Lomasakassapa, having killed many hundreds of living beings, offered the great Vājapeyya sacrifice', then that statement 'Formerly, when I was a human being, I was of a nature not to harm beings' is also wrong. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'Formerly, when I was a human being, I was of a nature not to harm beings', and 'the sage Lomasakassapa, having killed many hundreds of living beings, offered the great Vājapeyya sacrifice', but that was through the power of lust, when he was not in his right mind, not with full awareness."

"Venerable Nāgasena, these eight individuals take life. What are the eight? One with lust takes life due to lust, one with hatred takes life due to hatred, one with delusion takes life due to delusion, one with conceit takes life due to conceit, one with greed takes life due to greed, one who owns nothing takes life for livelihood, a fool takes life for amusement, a king takes life for discipline. These, Venerable Nāgasena, are the eight individuals who take life. "Venerable Nāgasena, what was done by the Bodhisatta was just natural." "No, great king, what was done by the Bodhisatta was not natural. Great king, if the Bodhisatta had naturally inclined to offer the great sacrifice, he would not have spoken this verse -

"The Bodhisatta speaking thus, great king, upon seeing the royal maiden Candavatī became unconscious, with mind deranged, impassioned, unconscious, confused, hurried and agitated, and with that scattered, confused and agitated mind he offered the great Vājapeyya sacrifice with a great collection of blood from the throats of many slain animals.

"Just as, great king, a madman with deranged mind steps on blazing fire, grabs an angry venomous snake, approaches a rutting elephant, leaps into the ocean where the shore cannot be seen, tramples on mud and mire, climbs a thorny stake, falls into precipices, eats impure things, walks naked on the street, and does many other improper things. Even so, great king, the Bodhisatta upon seeing the royal maiden Candavatī became unconscious, with mind deranged, impassioned, unconscious, confused, hurried and agitated, and with that scattered, confused and agitated mind he offered the great Vājapeyya sacrifice with a great collection of blood from the throats of many slain animals.

"Evil done with a deranged mind, great king, is not greatly blameworthy even in this very life, nor is its result thus in the future life. "Here, great king, if someone who is insane were to commit an offense deserving death, what punishment would you impose on him?" "What punishment, Venerable Sir, would there be for an insane person? We would have him beaten and removed, that alone is his punishment." "Thus, great king, for an offense by an insane person there is not even punishment, therefore even when done by an insane person there is no fault as long as it is curable. Even so, great king, the sage Lomasakassapa upon seeing the royal maiden Candavatī became unconscious, with mind deranged, impassioned, unconscious, scattered, confused, hurried and agitated, and with that scattered, confused and agitated mind he offered the great Vājapeyya sacrifice with a great collection of blood from the throats of many slain animals. But when he was of normal mind, having regained mindfulness, then having gone forth again and produced the five direct knowledges, he became destined for the brahmā world." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Question about Non-harming by the Buddha, the fifth.

6.

The Question About Chaddanta and Jotipāla

6. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One about Chaddanta, the king of elephants -

And again it was said: 'Being the brahmin youth Jotipāla, he abused and reviled the Blessed One Kassapa, the Arahant, the Perfectly Enlightened One, with improper harsh speech, calling him a shaveling, calling him an ascetic.' If, Venerable Nāgasena, when the future Buddha was born as an animal he venerated the yellow robe, then the statement that 'the brahmin youth Jotipāla abused and reviled the Blessed One Kassapa, the Arahant, the Perfectly Enlightened One, with improper harsh speech, calling him a shaveling, calling him an ascetic' is wrong. If the brahmin youth Jotipāla abused and reviled the Blessed One Kassapa, the Arahant, the Perfectly Enlightened One, with improper harsh speech, calling him a shaveling, calling him an ascetic, then that statement that 'Chaddanta, the king of elephants, venerated the yellow robe' is also wrong. If when the future Buddha was born as an animal, experiencing harsh, severe, bitter feelings, he venerated the yellow robe worn by the hunter, why when he was a human being with mature knowledge, with matured enlightenment, did he not venerate the Blessed One Kassapa, the Arahant, the Perfectly Enlightened One, the one with ten powers, the leader of the world, risen and shining, blazing with fathom-wide radiance, the most excellent one, wearing the most excellent beautiful yellow robe of Kāsi cloth? This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you.

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king, about Chaddanta, the king of elephants: 'He will kill me...etc... "He was not worthy of contempt." And the brahmin youth Jotipāla abused and reviled the Blessed One Kassapa, the Worthy One, the Perfectly Enlightened One, with improper harsh speech, calling him a shaveling, calling him an ascetic, and that was due to birth and family. The brahmin youth Jotipāla, great king, was reborn in a family without faith and without confidence. His mother and father, sisters and brothers, slaves and servants, attendants and people were devoted to Brahmā, revering Brahmā. They thinking 'Brahmins alone are supreme and excellent' blamed and despised other ascetics. Having heard their words, when the brahmin youth Jotipāla was invited by Ghaṭikāra the potter to see the Teacher, he said thus: "What is the use in seeing that bald-headed little ascetic?"

"Just as, great king, the Deathless coming into contact with poison becomes bitter, and just as cold water coming into contact with fire becomes hot, even so, great king, the brahmin youth Jotipāla was reborn in a family without faith and without confidence, he being blind due to family abused and reviled the Truth Finder.

"Just as, great king, a great mass of blazing, flaming fire with radiance, coming into contact with water, has its radiant power destroyed and becomes cold and black like a fully ripened nigguṇḍi fruit, even so, great king, the brahmin youth Jotipāla, though meritorious, faithful and with vast radiant knowledge, was reborn in a family without faith and without confidence, he being blind due to family abused and reviled the Truth Finder, but having approached and understood the qualities of the Buddha, he became like a servant, and having gone forth in the Conqueror's Dispensation and produced the direct knowledges and attainments, he became destined for the brahmā world." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Question About Chaddanta and Jotipāla, the sixth.

7.

The Question About Ghaṭikāra

7. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One: 'The workshop of Ghaṭikāra the potter remained without a roof for the entire three months, and no rain fell through.' And again it was said: 'The hut of the Truth Finder Kassapa is leaking.' But why, Venerable Nāgasena, does the hut of the Truth Finder who has such abundant roots of wholesomeness leak, should not such power belong to the Truth Finder? If, Venerable Nāgasena, the workshop of Ghaṭikāra the potter was without rain, roofless, then the statement that 'the hut of the Truth Finder is leaking' is wrong. If the hut of the Truth Finder is leaking, then that statement that 'the workshop of Ghaṭikāra the potter was without rain, roofless' is also wrong. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'The workshop of Ghaṭikāra the potter remained without a roof for the entire three months, and no rain fell through.' And it was said: 'The hut of the Truth Finder Kassapa is leaking.' Ghaṭikāra the potter, great king, was virtuous, of good qualities, with abundant wholesome roots, supported his blind and aged parents, and in his absence and without asking, they took thatch from his house and covered the Blessed One's hut, and through that taking of thatch he gained unshaken, unmoved, well-established, vast and incomparable rapture, and produced further immeasurable joy thinking 'Oh indeed the Blessed One, supreme in the world, has great trust in me', through that the result was produced in this very life. For, great king, the Truth Finder does not waver through such a change.

"Just as, great king, Mount Sineru, king of mountains, does not shake or move even with the impact of many hundreds of thousands of winds, and the great ocean, excellent and supreme sea, does not fill up or undergo change even with many hundreds of thousands of kotis of great rivers, even so, great king, the Truth Finder does not waver through such a change.

"But great king, when the hut of the Truth Finder is leaking, that is out of compassion for the great mass of people. Great king, seeing these two benefits, Truth Finders do not accept self-created conditions: having given a condition to the Blessed One, the Teacher worthy of the highest offerings, deities and human beings will be freed from all bad destinations, and showing this they search for livelihood thinking 'may others not blame.' Seeing these two benefits, Truth Finders do not accept self-created conditions. Great king, if Sakka or Brahmā or oneself were to make that hut not leak, that action would be blameworthy, with fault, with reproach, thinking 'these, having made it manifest, confuse the world, making it excessive,' therefore that action should be avoided. Great king, Truth Finders do not ask for a dwelling place, by that non-asking for a dwelling place they become blameless." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Question about Ghaṭikāra is seventh.

8.

Question About the Doctrine of Brahmin and King

8. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Truth Finder: 'I am, monks, a brahmin worthy of gifts.' And again it was said: 'I am a king, Sela.' If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Blessed One said: 'I am, monks, a brahmin worthy of gifts', then that statement 'I am a king, Sela' is wrong. If the Truth Finder said: 'I am a king, Sela', then that statement 'I am, monks, a brahmin worthy of gifts' is also wrong. For one would be either a noble or a brahmin, there are not two castes in one birth. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'I am, monks, a brahmin worthy of gifts', and again it was said: 'I am a king, Sela', therein there is a reason why the Truth Finder is both a brahmin and a king."

"But what, Venerable Nāgasena, is the reason why the Truth Finder is both a brahmin and a king?" "Great king, all evil unwholesome states have been removed, abandoned, gone, disappeared, cut off, destroyed, reached destruction, been quenched and calmed in the Truth Finder, therefore the Truth Finder is called 'brahmin'.

"Great king, a brahmin is one who has gone beyond doubt, uncertainty and the path of uncertainty, and the Blessed One too has gone beyond doubt, uncertainty and the path of uncertainty, for this reason the Truth Finder is called 'brahmin'.

"Great king, a brahmin is one who has escaped from all existence, destinations and modes of generation, is freed from stains and defilements, and is without companion, and the Blessed One too has escaped from all existence, destinations and modes of generation, is freed from stains and defilements, and is without companion, for this reason the Truth Finder is called 'brahmin'.

"A brahmin is one who dwells abundantly in the foremost, best, excellent, supreme divine abodes, and the Blessed One too, great king, dwells abundantly in the foremost, best, excellent, supreme divine abodes, for this reason too the Truth Finder is called 'brahmin'.

"A brahmin is one who maintains the lineage and tradition of study, teaching, giving and receiving, taming, self-control, fixed course and ancient instruction, and the Blessed One too, great king, maintains the lineage and tradition of study, teaching, giving and receiving, taming, self-control, fixed course and ancient practice of previous Victors, for this reason too the Truth Finder is called 'brahmin'.

"A brahmin is a meditator who dwells in the great happiness of meditative absorption; and the Blessed One too, great king, is a meditator who dwells in the great happiness of meditative absorption, for this reason too the Truth Finder is called 'brahmin'.

"A brahmin is one who knows the conduct and behaviour in all states of existence and non-existence and destinations, and the Blessed One too, great king, knows the conduct and behaviour in all states of existence and non-existence and destinations, for this reason too the Truth Finder is called 'brahmin'.

"Great king, 'brahmin' - this name was not made by mother, not made by father, not made by brother, not made by sister, not made by friends and companions, not made by relatives and blood relations, not made by ascetics and brahmins, not made by deities. This is the final liberation name of the Enlightened Ones, the Blessed Ones, when at the root of enlightenment, having scattered Māra's army, having kept away past, future and present evil unwholesome states, together with the attainment of omniscience, as soon as it was attained, manifested and arisen, it is an actual description, that is 'brahmin', for this reason the Truth Finder is called 'brahmin'."

"But Venerable Nāgasena, for what reason is the Truth Finder called 'king'?" "Great king, a king is anyone who rules a kingdom and instructs the world, and the Blessed One too, great king, righteously rules the ten-thousandfold world system, and instructs the world with its deities, with Māra, with Brahmā, this generation with its ascetics and brahmins, with deities and human beings, for this reason too the Truth Finder is called 'king'.

"Great king, a king having overcome all people, delighting the assembly of relatives, causing grief to the assembly of enemies, raises up a great and glorious pure, spotless, white parasol with a firm and substantial handle adorned with a hundred complete spokes, and the Blessed One too, great king, causing grief to Māra's army who practise wrongly, delighting deities and humans who practise rightly, raises up in the ten-thousandfold world system a great and glorious pure, spotless, white parasol of supreme excellent liberation with patience as its firm and substantial handle adorned with a hundred spokes of excellent knowledge, for this reason too the Truth Finder is called 'king'.

"Great king, a king is worthy of veneration by many people who have attained success, and the Blessed One too, great king, is worthy of veneration by many deities and human beings who have attained success, for this reason too the Truth Finder is called 'king'.

"Great king, a king having been pleased with anyone who is pleasing, having given the desired boon, satisfies with sensual pleasure, and the Blessed One too, great king, having been pleased with anyone who is pleasing through body, speech and mind, having given the unsurpassed desired boon of complete freedom from all suffering, satisfies with the boon of all sensual pleasures without remainder, for this reason too the Truth Finder is called 'king'."

"Great king, a king censures, burns and destroys one who transgresses his command, and in the supreme Dispensation of the Blessed One too, one who is shameless and transgresses the command becomes despised, scorned, censured and blamed through humiliation, and falls away from the supreme Victor's Teaching, for this reason too the Truth Finder is called 'king'."

"Great king, a king having illuminated what is Teaching and what is not Teaching through the traditional instruction of righteous kings of old, while ruling righteously over the kingdom, becomes desired, dear and longed for by people, and establishes the royal lineage for a long time through the power of the qualities of the Teaching, and the Blessed One too, great king, having illuminated what is Teaching and what is not Teaching through the traditional instruction of previous Self-Enlightened Ones, while instructing the world righteously, becomes desired, dear and longed for by deities and humans, and maintains the Dispensation for a long time through the power of the qualities of the Teaching, for this reason too the Truth Finder is called 'king'." Thus, great king, there are many reasons why the Truth Finder could be both a brahmin and a king. A skilled monk could not complete explaining them even in an aeon. What is the use of saying more? Let it be accepted in brief. "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

Eighth Question about the Doctrine of Brahmin and King.

9.

The Question About Food Gained by Reciting Verses

9. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One -

And again when the Blessed One teaches and speaks the Teaching to the assembly, speaking progressive talk, first he speaks talk about giving, afterwards talk about virtue, having heard the speech of the Blessed One, lord of all worlds, deities and human beings prepare and give gifts, and the disciples partake of those gifts given at his instigation. If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Blessed One said: "I would not eat what is gained by reciting verses", then the statement that "the Blessed One speaks first about giving" is wrong. If he speaks first about giving, then that statement "I would not eat what is gained by reciting verses" is also wrong. What is the reason? Venerable Sir, when one worthy of gifts speaks about the result of giving almsfood to householders, having heard that Teaching talk they give gifts again and again with confident minds, and all who partake of that gift partake of what is gained by reciting verses. This dilemma with two points is precise and profound, it has come to you who practise austerity, it should be resolved by you."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king: 'I would not eat what is gained by reciting verses, this is not the Teaching of those who see, brahmin. The Enlightened Ones reject what is sung in verses, when there is Teaching, brahmin, this is the practice, and the Blessed One speaks first about giving, and this action is first for all Truth Finders with talk about giving, having delighted the mind there, afterwards they establish in virtue. Just as, great king, people first give toys to young children. That is: toy ploughs, stick games, toy windmills, toy measures, toy chariots, toy bows. Even so, great king, the Truth Finder having first delighted the mind with talk about giving, afterwards establishes in virtue.

"Moreover, great king, just as a physician first gives oil to the sick for four or five days for making strength and for softening, afterwards he purges. Even so, great king, the Truth Finder having first delighted the mind with talk about giving, afterwards establishes in virtue. Great king, the mind of givers, of lords of giving, becomes soft, gentle, smooth, therefore by the bridge-crossing of giving, by the boat of giving, they go to the far shore of the ocean of rebirths, therefore he first instructs them in the field of action, and does not engage in any hinting.

"Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'hinting', how many kinds of hinting are there?" "Great king, there are these two intimations: bodily intimation and verbal intimation. Therein there is bodily intimation that is blameworthy, and there is that which is blameless. There is verbal intimation that is blameworthy, and there is that which is blameless.

"What is blameworthy bodily intimation? Here a monk, having approached families, standing in an improper place, breaks his posture; this is blameworthy bodily intimation. And what is intimated by that the noble ones do not consume, and that person is despised by the noble ones, scorned, mocked, blamed, treated with contempt, disrespected, and is reckoned as one whose livelihood is broken.

"Furthermore, great king, here a monk, having approached families, standing in an improper place, stretches his neck and looks with a peacock's gaze thinking 'Thus these will see me', and through that they see him. This bodily intimation too is blameworthy. And what is intimated by that the noble ones do not consume, and that person is despised by the noble ones, scorned, mocked, blamed, treated with contempt, disrespected, and is reckoned as one whose livelihood is broken.

"Furthermore, great king, here a monk intimates with his jaw or eyebrow or thumb, this bodily intimation too is blameworthy, and what is intimated by that the noble ones do not consume, and that person is despised by the noble ones, scorned, mocked, blamed, treated with contempt, disrespected, and is reckoned as one whose livelihood is broken.

"What is the blameless bodily intimation? Here a monk, having approached families, mindful, concentrated, clearly comprehending, having gone according to instruction whether in a proper or improper place, stands in a proper place, stands with those wishing to give, departs from those not wishing to give. This is blameless bodily intimation, and what is intimated by that the noble ones consume, and that person is praised in the tradition of the noble ones, extolled, commended, of effacing conduct, and is reckoned as one of pure livelihood. This was spoken by the Blessed One, the deity above deities -

What is blameworthy verbal intimation? Here, great king, a monk intimates in many ways through speech for robes, almsfood, lodging and medicinal requisites, this verbal intimation is blameworthy, and what is intimated by that the noble ones do not consume, and that person is despised by the noble ones, scorned, mocked, blamed, treated with contempt, disrespected, and is reckoned as one whose livelihood is broken.

Furthermore, great king, here a monk speaks thus making others hear 'I need this', and through that speech made heard by others gain arises for him, this verbal intimation too is blameworthy, and what is intimated by that the noble ones do not consume, and that person is despised by the noble ones, scorned, mocked, blamed, treated with contempt, disrespected, and is reckoned as one whose livelihood is broken.

"Furthermore, great king, here a monk makes the assembly hear through verbal diffusion 'Such and such should be given to the monks', and having heard that speech they bring what was proclaimed, this verbal intimation too is blameworthy, and what is intimated by that the noble ones do not consume, and that person is despised by the noble ones, scorned, mocked, blamed, treated with contempt, disrespected, and is reckoned as one whose livelihood is broken.

"Indeed, great king, even the elder Sāriputta, when he was ill during the night after sunset, being asked about medicine by the elder Mahāmoggallāna, broke into speech, and through that breaking into speech medicine arose for him. Then the elder Sāriputta, thinking 'This medicine arose for me through breaking into speech, let not my livelihood be broken', through fear of breaking his livelihood abandoned that medicine and did not use it. Thus too verbal intimation is blameworthy, and what is intimated by that the noble ones do not consume. And that person is despised by the noble ones, scorned, mocked, blamed, treated with contempt, disrespected, and is reckoned as one whose livelihood is broken.

"What is blameless verbal intimation? Here, great king, a monk intimates medicine when there is a condition in families who have invited relatives, this verbal intimation is blameless, and what is intimated by that the noble ones consume, and that person is praised in the tradition of the noble ones, extolled, commended, and is reckoned as one of pure livelihood, approved by the Truth Finders, the Arahants, the Perfectly Enlightened Ones.

But great king, when the Truth Finder rejected the food of the brahmin Kasibhāradvāja, that was produced through twisting, untwisting, pulling, restraining and counteracting, therefore the Truth Finder rejected that almsfood and did not live on it.

"Venerable Nāgasena, did deities pour divine essence into the Truth Finder's bowl whenever he was eating, or did they pour it only into these two almsfood offerings - the tender pork and the honey rice-milk?" "Great king, whenever the Truth Finder was eating, deities stood by with divine essence and poured it into each morsel as it was taken up.

"Just as, great king, when the king is eating, the king's cook stands by with sauce and pours sauce on each morsel, even so, great king, whenever the Truth Finder was eating, deities stood by with divine essence and poured divine essence into each morsel as it was taken up. "Great king, when the Truth Finder was eating dried barley in Verañjā, deities infused it with divine essence again and again, and thereby the Truth Finder's body was sustained." "It is a gain indeed, Venerable Nāgasena, for those deities who constantly and continuously undertook the effort to care for the Truth Finder's body. Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Question about Food Gained by Reciting Verses is Ninth.

10.

The Question About Living at Ease Instead of Teaching the Teaching

10. "Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'the Truth Finder developed omniscient knowledge over four incalculable aeons and a hundred thousand aeons in between for lifting up the great mass of people'. Yet again 'when he attained omniscience his mind inclined to living at ease, not to Teaching the Teaching'.

"Just as, Venerable Nāgasena, an archer or an archer's apprentice having trained in archery for many days for battle would draw back when the great battle arrived, even so, Venerable Nāgasena, the Truth Finder having developed omniscient knowledge over four incalculable aeons and a hundred thousand aeons in between for lifting up the great mass of people, drew back from Teaching the Teaching when he had attained omniscience.

"Moreover, Venerable Nāgasena, just as a wrestler or a wrestler's apprentice having trained in wrestling for many days would draw back when the wrestling match arrived, even so, Venerable Nāgasena, the Truth Finder having developed omniscient knowledge over four incalculable aeons and a hundred thousand aeons in between for lifting up the great mass of people, drew back from Teaching the Teaching when he had attained omniscience.

"But Venerable Nāgasena, did the Truth Finder draw back from fear, or did he draw back from lack of clarity, or did he draw back from weakness, or did he draw back from lack of omniscience? What is the reason there? Come now, tell me the reason for crossing over doubt. "If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Truth Finder developed omniscient knowledge over four incalculable aeons and a hundred thousand aeons in between for lifting up the great mass of people, then the statement 'when he attained omniscience his mind inclined to living at ease, not to Teaching the Teaching' is wrong. If when he attained omniscience his mind inclined to living at ease, not to Teaching the Teaching, then that statement 'the Truth Finder developed omniscient knowledge over four incalculable aeons and a hundred thousand aeons in between for lifting up the great mass of people' is also wrong. This dilemma with two points, profound and hard to unravel, has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"Great king, the Truth Finder developed omniscient knowledge over four incalculable aeons and a hundred thousand aeons in between for lifting up the great mass of people, and when he attained omniscience his mind inclined to living at ease, not to Teaching the Teaching. Having seen this deep, subtle, hard to see, hard to understand, refined, hard to penetrate nature of the Teaching, and beings' delight in adhesion, and their firm grasping of identity view, his mind inclined to living at ease, thinking 'What indeed? How indeed?', not to Teaching the Teaching - this was just the mind considering beings' penetration.

"Just as, great king, a physician and surgeon approaching a person afflicted with many diseases thinks 'By what treatment or by what medicine would this person's disease be calmed?', even so, great king, having seen people afflicted with all the diseases of defilements and the deep, subtle, hard to see, hard to understand, refined, hard to penetrate nature of the Teaching, the Truth Finder's mind inclined to living at ease, thinking 'What indeed? How indeed?', not to Teaching the Teaching - this was just the mind considering beings' penetration.

"Just as, great king, when a consecrated warrior-king seeing people - doorkeepers, soldiers, courtiers, townspeople, warriors, troops, ministers, nobles and those dependent on the king - might have this thought arise 'What indeed? How indeed shall I favour these?', even so, great king, having seen the deep, subtle, hard to see, hard to understand, refined, hard to penetrate nature of the Teaching, and beings' delight in adhesion, and their firm grasping of identity view, the Truth Finder's mind inclined to living at ease, thinking 'What indeed? How indeed?', not to Teaching the Teaching - this was just the mind considering beings' penetration.

"However, great king, this is the nature of all Truth Finders, that they teach the Teaching when requested by a brahmā." What is the reason therein? Those who at that time were human beings - ascetics, wanderers, ascetics and brahmins - all these have Brahmā as deity, revere Brahmā, have Brahmā as their destination. Therefore, through the bending down of that powerful, famous, well-known, renowned, superior, exalted one, the world with its deities will bend down, trust and be convinced. For this reason too, great king, the Truth Finders teach the Teaching when requested by a brahmā.

"Just as, great king, when a king or royal minister bends down and shows respect to someone more powerful, through his bending down the rest of the people bend down and show respect, even so, great king, when Brahmā bends down to the Truth Finders, the world with its deities will bend down. The world, great king, venerates the venerated, therefore that Brahmā requests all Truth Finders for the teaching of the Teaching, and for that reason the Truth Finders teach the Teaching when requested by a brahmā." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, the question is well unravelled, the explanation is most excellent, thus we accept it."

The Question about Living at Ease in Teaching the Teaching, the tenth.

11.

The Question About Teacher and No Teacher

11. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One -

And again it was said: 'Thus, monks, Āḷāra Kālāma, being my teacher, placed me, his pupil, on an equal level with himself and honoured me with the highest honour.' If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Truth Finder said: 'I have no teacher, none is found equal to me. In this world with its devas, there is no individual equal to me', then the statement 'Thus, monks, Āḷāra Kālāma, being my teacher, placed me, his pupil, on an equal level with himself' is wrong. If the Truth Finder said: 'Thus, monks, Āḷāra Kālāma, being my teacher, placed me, his pupil, on an equal level with himself', then that statement 'I have no teacher, none is found equal to me. In this world with its devas, there is no individual equal to me' is also wrong. This dilemma with two points has come to you, it should be resolved by you."

"This too was spoken, great king, by the Truth Finder: 'I have no teacher, none is found equal to me. 'In this world with its devas, there is no individual equal to me', and it was said: 'Thus, monks, Āḷāra Kālāma, being my teacher, placed me, his pupil, on an equal level with himself and honoured me with the highest honour.'

That statement was spoken with reference to the state of having a teacher before enlightenment, when still an unenlightened bodhisatta.

"There were these five teachers, great king, before my enlightenment, when I was still an unenlightened bodhisatta, instructed by whom the bodhisatta spent his days here and there. What are the five? Those eight brahmins, great king, who examined the characteristics of the bodhisatta at birth, that is: Rāma, Dhaja, Lakkhaṇa, Mantī, Yañña, Suyāma, Subhoja, and Sudatta. Having proclaimed his fortune, they performed protective rites, and they were the first teachers.

"Furthermore, great king, the bodhisatta's father, King Suddhodana, at that time brought a brahmin named Sabbamitta, who was well-born, of high birth, learned, an expert in grammar, possessed of the six branches of learning, and having poured water with a golden vessel, gave him saying 'Teach this prince', this was the second teacher.

"Furthermore, great king, that deity who stirred emotion in the bodhisatta, having heard whose words the bodhisatta, stirred with emotion and agitated, in that very moment went forth into renunciation and left home, this was the third teacher.

"Furthermore, great king, Āḷāra Kālāma taught the preliminary practice for the base of nothingness, this was the fourth teacher.

"Furthermore, great king, Udaka Rāmaputta taught the preliminary practice for the base of neither-perception-nor-non-perception, this was the fifth teacher. These, great king, were the five teachers before enlightenment, when still an unenlightened bodhisatta. And those teachers were in worldly states. But in this supramundane Teaching, great king, for the penetration of omniscient knowledge, the Truth Finder has no unsurpassed instructor, the Truth Finder is self-enlightened, great king, without a teacher, for this reason the Truth Finder said: 'I have no teacher, none is found equal to me. "In this world with its devas, there is no individual equal to me." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Question about Teacher and No Teacher is eleventh.

The Fifth Chapter on Association.

In this chapter there are eleven questions.

The Question about the Rams is concluded.

5.

The Question of Inference

1.

The Chapter About the Buddha

1.

The Question About Two Buddhas Not Arising

1. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One: 'It is impossible, monks, it cannot happen, that two Arahants who are Perfectly Enlightened Ones could arise simultaneously in the same world system. There is no such possibility.' But Venerable Nāgasena, when all Truth Finders teach, they teach the thirty-seven aids to enlightenment, when speaking they speak of the four noble truths, when training they train in the three trainings, when instructing they instruct in the practice of diligence. If, Venerable Nāgasena, all Truth Finders have one teaching, one talk, one training, one instruction, for what reason do two Truth Finders not arise at the same moment? Even with the arising of one Buddha this world has become illuminated. If there were a second Buddha, this world would become even more illuminated with the light of two. And when instructing, two Truth Finders could instruct easily, and when teaching could teach easily. Tell me the reason for this, so that I may be free from doubt."

"Great king, this world system of ten thousand worlds can support only one Buddha, it bears the qualities of only one Truth Finder. If a second Buddha were to arise, this world system of ten thousand worlds would not bear it - it would shake, tremble, bend, sway, rock, split apart, break apart, be destroyed and not remain stable.

"Just as, great king, if a boat were able to support one person, when one person has boarded, that boat would be properly balanced. Then a second person would come, similar in life span, beauty, age, size, thinness or thickness, and all major and minor limbs, and he would board that boat, but great king, would that boat bear both?" "No, Venerable Sir, it would shake, tremble, bend, sway, rock, split apart, break apart, be destroyed, not remain stable, it would sink in the water." "Even so, great king, this world system of ten thousand worlds can support only one Buddha, it bears the qualities of only one Truth Finder. If a second Buddha were to arise, this world system of ten thousand worlds would not bear it - it would shake, tremble, bend, sway, rock, split apart, break apart, be destroyed and not remain stable.

"Moreover, great king, if a person were to eat food to his satisfaction, filling himself right up to the throat, and being satiated, satisfied, full, stuffed, lethargic, unable to bend like a stick, were to eat that much food again, would that person, great king, be happy?" "No, Venerable Sir, one would not die just from eating once." "Even so, great king, this world system of ten thousand worlds can support only one Buddha, it bears the qualities of only one Truth Finder. If a second Buddha were to arise, this world system of ten thousand worlds would not bear it - it would shake, tremble, bend, sway, rock, split apart, break apart, be destroyed and not remain stable."

"But Venerable Nāgasena, does the earth shake from excessive weight of Teaching?" "Here, great king, there might be two carts filled with jewels right up to the brim, if they were to take jewels from one cart and heap them in the other cart, would that cart, great king, bear the jewels of both carts?" "No, Venerable Sir, its hub would split, its spokes would break, its rim would fall off, and its axle would break." "But great king, does the cart break from excessive weight of jewels?" "Yes, Venerable Sir." Even so, great king, the earth shakes from excessive weight of Teaching.

"However, great king, this reason is brought forth to illustrate the power of the Buddha. Hear another beautiful reason there, for what reason two Perfectly Enlightened Ones do not arise at the same moment. If, great king, two Perfectly Enlightened Ones were to arise at the same moment, dispute would arise in their assembly: "Your enlightened one, our enlightened one", they would become divided into two factions. Just as, great king, dispute would arise in the assembly of two powerful ministers: "Your minister, our minister", they become divided into two factions, even so, great king, if two Perfectly Enlightened Ones were to arise at the same moment, dispute would arise in their assembly: "Your enlightened one, our enlightened one", they would become divided into two factions. This, great king, is one reason for which reason two Perfectly Enlightened Ones do not arise at the same moment.

"Great king, hear another further reason for which reason two Perfectly Enlightened Ones do not arise at the same moment. If, great king, two Perfectly Enlightened Ones were to arise at the same moment, the statement 'the enlightened one is foremost' would be wrong, the statement 'the enlightened one is eldest' would be wrong, the statement 'the enlightened one is best' would be wrong, 'the enlightened one is most excellent' would be wrong, 'the enlightened one is highest' would be wrong, 'the enlightened one is supreme' would be wrong, 'the enlightened one is unequalled' would be wrong, 'the enlightened one is without equal' would be wrong, 'the enlightened one is matchless' would be wrong, 'the enlightened one is without comparison' would be wrong, 'the enlightened one is without counterpart' would be wrong. Accept this reason too, great king, for which reason two Perfectly Enlightened Ones do not arise at the same moment.

Moreover, great king, this is the inherent nature of the Blessed Enlightened Ones, that only one enlightened one arises in the world. For what reason? Due to the greatness of the qualities of the Omniscient Enlightened One. Moreover, great king, whatever is great in the world, that is only one. The earth, great king, is great, that is only one. The ocean is great, that is only one. Mount Sineru, the king of mountains, is great, that is only one. Space is great, that is only one. Sakka is great, he is only one. Māra is great, he is only one. The Great Brahmā is great, he is only one. The Truth Finder, the Worthy One, the Perfectly Enlightened One is great, he is only one in the world. Where they arise, there is no room for another, therefore, great king, the Truth Finder, the Worthy One, the Perfectly Enlightened One arises only one in the world."

"Well explained, Venerable Nāgasena, is the question with similes and reasons. Having heard this, even an unintelligent person would be delighted, how much more so one of great wisdom like myself. Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Question about Two Buddhas Not Arising is first.

2.

Question About Gotamī's Gift of Cloth

2. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One when his maternal aunt Mahāpajāpatī Gotamī was giving a rains cloth: 'Give it to the Community, Gotamī. When given to the Community, both I and the Community will be honoured.' But Venerable Nāgasena, is the Truth Finder not weighty, not important, not worthy of offerings compared to the jewel of the Community, that when his own maternal aunt was giving him a rains cloth that she herself had ginned, herself had plucked, herself had beaten, herself had spun, herself had woven, the Truth Finder had it given to the Community? If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Truth Finder were superior to, higher than, or more distinguished than the jewel of the Community, the Truth Finder would not have had his maternal aunt give to the Community the rains cloth that she herself had ginned, herself had plucked, herself had beaten, thinking 'When given to me it will be of great fruit.' But Venerable Nāgasena, because the Truth Finder does not desire or rely upon himself, therefore the Truth Finder had his maternal aunt give that rains cloth to the Community."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, great king, when his maternal aunt Mahāpajāpatī Gotamī was giving a rains cloth: 'Give it to the Community, Gotamī. When given to the Community, both I and the Community will be honoured.' But that was not because his own honour would not give a result or because he was not worthy of offerings, but rather, great king, for welfare and compassion, thinking "In the future time after my passing away, the Community will be honoured," speaking thus while extolling existing virtues: "Give it to the Community, Gotamī. When given to the Community, both I and the Community will be honoured."

Just as, great king, a father while still living extols his son's existing virtues in the presence of the king amidst ministers, soldiers, doorkeepers, army officers, courtiers and people, thinking "Being established here, he will be honoured among the people in the future time." Even so, great king, the Truth Finder, for welfare and compassion, thinking "In the future time after my passing away, the Community will be honoured," speaking thus while extolling existing virtues: "Give it to the Community, Gotamī. When given to the Community, both I and the Community will be honoured."

"No, great king, the Community does not become superior or more distinguished than the Truth Finder merely by giving a rains cloth to that extent. "Just as, great king, mother and father massage, rub, bathe and stroke their children, but great king, merely through that massaging, rubbing, bathing and stroking, would 'a son become superior or more distinguished than mother and father'?" "No, Venerable Sir, children should not do what is not pleasing to mother and father, therefore mother and father do the massaging, rubbing, bathing and stroking for their children." Even so, great king, merely through giving a rains cloth to that extent, the Community does not become superior or more distinguished than the Truth Finder. Rather, the Truth Finder, doing what should not be done unwillingly, had his maternal aunt give that rains cloth to the Community.

"Moreover, great king, if some person were to bring a gift to the king, and the king were to give that gift to some soldier or troop or general or royal chaplain. "But great king, would that person be superior or more distinguished than the king merely through receiving a gift to that extent?" "No, Venerable Sir, that person is a king's servant, dependent on the king, the king gives the gift placing him in that position." "Even so, great king, the Community does not become superior or more distinguished than the Truth Finder merely through giving a rains cloth to that extent, rather the Community is a servant of the Truth Finder, dependent on the Truth Finder. The Truth Finder had the rains cloth given to the Community placing it in that position.

"However, great king, the Truth Finder thought thus: 'The Community is worthy of honour by nature, I will honour the Community with what belongs to me' and had the rains cloth given to the Community. The Truth Finder, great king, does not praise honouring of himself alone, rather the Truth Finder praises honouring of those who are worthy of honour in the world too."

"This was spoken by the Blessed One, the deity above deities, in the excellent Middle Length Discourses, in the discourse on heirs of the Teaching, when praising the practice of fewness of wishes: 'That first monk is more worthy of respect and praise to me.'" "There is not, great king, in any existence any being who is more worthy of offerings than, or superior to, or higher than, or more distinguished than the Truth Finder. The Truth Finder is superior, higher, more distinguished.

"This too was spoken, great king, in the excellent Collection of Connected Discourses by the young deity Māṇavagāmika standing before the Blessed One in the midst of deities and human beings -

"Indeed, great king, those verses by the young deity Māṇavagāmika were well sung, not poorly sung, well spoken, not poorly spoken, and approved by the Blessed One. Was it not also said by the Elder Sāriputta, the general of the Teaching -

"And it was spoken by the Blessed One, the deity above deities: 'Monks, one individual, when arising in the world, arises for the welfare of the multitude, for the happiness of the multitude, out of compassion for the world, for the good, welfare, and happiness of devas and humans. Which one individual? The Truth Finder, the Worthy One, the Perfectly Enlightened One...etc... of devas and humans." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

Question about Gotamī's Gift of Cloth, the second.

3.

The Question About Right Practice of Householders and Renunciants

[3] "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One: 'Monks, I praise right practice whether of a householder or one gone forth. Whether a householder or one gone forth, monks, practising rightly, because of right practice, is an achiever of the true way, the wholesome Teaching." If, Venerable Nāgasena, a householder wearing white clothes, enjoying sensual pleasures, living in the confinement of wife and children, experiencing Kāsi sandalwood, wearing garlands, perfumes and ointments, accepting gold and silver, adorned with jewelled earrings and decorated headdress, practising rightly, is an achiever of the true way, the wholesome Teaching, and one gone forth wearing yellow robes with shaven head, living on others' alms, fully completing the four aggregates of virtue, undertaking and following the one hundred and fifty training rules, following the thirteen austere practices completely, practising rightly, is an achiever of the true way, the wholesome Teaching. Therein, Venerable Sir, what is the distinction between a householder and one gone forth? The practice of austerity is fruitless, going forth is purposeless. The protection of training rules is barren, the undertaking of austere practices is vain, what is the use of pursuing suffering there, should not happiness be attained through happiness?"

"This was spoken by the Blessed One: 'Monks, I praise right practice whether of a householder or one gone forth. Whether a householder or one gone forth, monks, practising rightly, because of right practice, is an achiever of the true way, the wholesome Teaching." So it is, great king, only one practising rightly is best. Even one gone forth, great king, thinking 'I am gone forth' but not practising rightly, then he is far indeed from recluseship, far from being a brahmin, how much more so a householder wearing white clothes. A householder, great king, practising rightly is an achiever of the true way, the wholesome Teaching, and one gone forth, great king, practising rightly is an achiever of the true way, the wholesome Teaching.

However, great king, one gone forth is the master and chief of recluseship. Going forth, great king, has many qualities, numerous qualities, measureless qualities, it is not possible to measure the qualities of going forth.

"Just as, great king, it is not possible to measure with wealth the value of a wish-fulfilling jewel-gem saying 'This much is the price of the jewel-gem', even so, great king, going forth has many qualities, numerous qualities, measureless qualities, it is not possible to measure the qualities of going forth.

"Moreover, great king, just as it is not possible to measure the waves in the great ocean saying 'This many are the waves in the great ocean', even so, great king, going forth has many qualities, numerous qualities, measureless qualities, it is not possible to measure the qualities of going forth.

"Whatever needs to be done by a renunciant, great king, all that succeeds quickly, not after a long time. For what reason? A renunciant, great king, has few wishes, is content, secluded, unattached, energetic, without adhesion, without dwelling, complete in virtuous behavior, austere in conduct, skilled in ascetic practice, for this reason whatever needs to be done by a renunciant, all that succeeds quickly, not after a long time. Just as, great king, an arrow that is knotless, well-polished, straight and stainless, well-prepared, flies properly, even so, great king, whatever needs to be done by a renunciant, all that succeeds quickly, not after a long time." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Question about Right Practice of Householders and Renunciants, the third.

4.

Question About the Defect in Practice

4. "Venerable Nāgasena, when the Bodhisatta performed austerities, there was no other such arousal of energy, endeavour, battle with defilements, dispersal of Māra's army, restraint of food, and performance of austerities. Not gaining any gratification from such exertion, and having deteriorated that very mind, he said thus: 'But by this severe performance of austerities I have not attained any superhuman state, any distinction in knowledge and vision worthy of the noble ones. Could there be another path to enlightenment?' Then, being disenchanted, he attained omniscience by another path, yet again instructs and encourages disciples in that practice:

"But for what reason, Venerable Nāgasena, does the Truth Finder instruct and encourage disciples in that practice from which he himself became disenchanted and dispassionate?"

"At that time too, great king, and now too, it is that same practice, having practised that same practice the Bodhisatta attained omniscience. However, great king, the Bodhisatta making excessive effort completely cut off nutriment. Through cutting off nutriment, weakness of mind arose in him. Due to that weakness he was not able to attain omniscience, but consuming moderate amounts of material food, through that same practice he attained omniscience before long. That same practice, great king, is for the attainment of omniscient knowledge of all Truth Finders.

"Just as, great king, nutriment is the support of all beings, all beings experience happiness dependent on nutriment, even so, great king, that same practice is for the attainment of omniscient knowledge of all Truth Finders. This, great king, is not a fault of arousal, not of endeavour, not of battle with defilements, through which the Truth Finder did not attain omniscient knowledge at that time, rather this is just the fault of cutting off nutriment, that practice is always ready.

"Just as, great king, if a person were to travel a course with excessive speed, because of that he might become paralysed or a cripple, unable to move on the earth's surface. "But great king, is there any fault in the great earth, through which that person became paralyzed?" "No, Venerable Sir; The great earth is always ready, Venerable Sir, how could there be fault in it? This is just the fault of effort, through which that person became paralyzed." "Even so, great king, this is not a fault of arousal, not of endeavour, not of battle with defilements, through which the Truth Finder did not attain omniscient knowledge at that time, rather this is just the fault of cutting off nutriment, that practice is always ready.

"Moreover, great king, if a person were to wear a dirty cloth, and he would not have it washed, this is not a fault of the water, the water is always ready. This is the fault of the person. Even so, great king, this is not a fault of arousal, not of endeavour, not of battle with defilements, through which the Truth Finder did not attain omniscient knowledge at that time, rather this is just the fault of cutting off nutriment, that practice is always ready, therefore the Truth Finder instructs and encourages disciples in that same practice, thus, great king, that practice is always ready and faultless." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

Fourth is the Question About the Defect in Practice.

5.

The Question About Returning to the Lower Life

5. "Venerable Nāgasena, this Dispensation of the Truth Finder is great, substantial, excellent, supreme, incomparable, pure, stainless, bright, and faultless. It is not proper to ordain a householder so quickly. Having trained a householder in one fruition, when he becomes a non-returner, then he should be ordained. For what reason? These wicked people, having gone forth in that pure Teaching, turn back and return to the lower life. Due to their return, the masses think thus: 'This Teaching of the ascetic Gotama must be hollow, since these people are turning back.' This is the reason here."

"Great king, suppose there was a lake full of pure, stainless, cool water, and then someone who was dirty, covered with stains and mud, would go to that lake and return without bathing, still dirty. In that case, great king, which would people blame - the dirty person or the lake?" "Great king, people would blame the dirty one: 'Having gone to the lake and not bathing, he returned still dirty. Will the lake itself bathe one who does not wish to bathe? What fault is there of the lake?' Even so, great king, the Truth Finder created the excellent lake of the true Teaching filled with the excellent water of liberation thinking 'Whatever conscious wise beings are dirty with the stains of defilements, having bathed here they will wash away all defilements.' If someone having gone to that excellent lake of the true Teaching and not bathing returns still defiled and reverts to the low life, people will blame him: 'Having gone forth in the Conqueror's Teaching and not finding establishment there, he reverted to the low life. Will the Conqueror's Teaching itself enlighten one who does not practice? What fault is there of the Conqueror's Teaching?'

"Moreover, great king, if a person who is extremely sick, having seen a physician and surgeon skilled in the arising of diseases whose work is unfailing, sure and successful, without getting treatment would return still sick, which would people blame there - the sick person or the physician?" "People would blame the sick one, Venerable Sir: 'Having seen a physician and surgeon skilled in the arising of diseases whose work is unfailing, sure and successful, without getting treatment he returned still sick. Will the physician himself treat one who does not get treatment? What fault is there of the physician?'" "Even so, great king, the Truth Finder placed inside the casket of the Teaching the medicine of the Deathless capable of completely calming all the diseases of defilements, thinking 'Whatever conscious wise beings are afflicted with the diseases of defilements, having drunk this medicine of the Deathless they will calm all diseases of defilements.' If someone without drinking that medicine of the Deathless returns still defiled and reverts to the low life, people will blame him: 'Having gone forth in the Conqueror's Teaching and not finding establishment there, he reverted to the low life. Will the Conqueror's Teaching itself enlighten one who does not practice? What fault is there of the Conqueror's Teaching?'

"Moreover, great king, if a hungry person having gone to a great meritorious distribution of food were to return still hungry without eating that food, which would people blame there - the hungry person or the meritorious food?" "People would blame the hungry one, Venerable Sir: 'Having obtained meritorious food while afflicted with hunger, without eating he returned still hungry. Will the food itself enter the mouth of one who does not eat? What fault is there of the food?'" Even so, great king, the Truth Finder placed inside the casket of the Teaching the supreme excellent peaceful auspicious sublime Deathless supremely sweet food of mindfulness of the body thinking 'Whatever conscious wise beings are internally hungry with defilements, with minds overcome by craving, having eaten this food they will remove all craving in the sense-sphere, form and formless existences.' If someone without eating that food returns still thirsty with craving and reverts to the low life, people will blame him: 'Having gone forth in the Conqueror's Teaching and not finding establishment there, he reverted to the low life. Will the Conqueror's Teaching itself enlighten one who does not practice? What fault is there of the Conqueror's Teaching?'

"If, great king, the Truth Finder were to ordain only householders trained in one fruition, this going forth would not be for abandoning defilements or for purification, there would be nothing to be done in going forth. Just as, great king, if a person having had a lake dug with work of many hundreds would announce thus to the assembly: "Sirs, let none who are dirty enter this lake, enter this lake with dirt and dust washed away, pure, stainless and clean." But great king, would there be anything to be done with that lake for those with dirt and dust washed away, pure, stainless and clean?" "No, Venerable Sir, the purpose for which they would approach that lake has already been accomplished elsewhere for them, what use is that lake to them?" "Even so, great king, if the Truth Finder were to ordain only householders trained in one fruition, their task would already be accomplished right there, what use would going forth be to them?

"Moreover, great king, if a physician and surgeon who is naturally devoted to seers, who holds learned mantras and verses, who is not speculative, who is skilled in the arising of diseases, whose work is unfailing, sure and successful, having collected medicine for calming all diseases, would announce thus to the assembly: 'Sirs, let none who are sick approach me, let those who are without sickness, healthy, approach me.' "But great king, would there be anything to be done by that physician for those who are without sickness, healthy, complete and elated?" "No, Venerable Sir, the purpose for which they would approach that physician and surgeon has already been accomplished elsewhere for them, what use is that physician to them?" "Even so, great king, if the Truth Finder were to ordain only householders trained in one fruition, their task would already be accomplished right there, what use would going forth be to them?

"Moreover, great king, if some person having prepared hundreds of pots of food would announce thus to the assembly: 'Sirs, let none who are hungry approach this distribution, approach this distribution having eaten well, being satisfied, full, satiated, pleased and complete.'" "But great king, would there be anything to be done with that food for those who have eaten, are satisfied, satiated, full, gratified, complete?" "No, Venerable Sir, the purpose for which they would approach that meal has already been accomplished elsewhere for them, what use is that meal to them?" "Even so, great king, if the Truth Finder were to ordain only householders trained in one fruition, their task would already be accomplished right there, what use would going forth be to them?

"However, great king, those who return to the lower life show five incomparable qualities of the Conqueror's Teaching. What are the five? They show the greatness of the plane, they show the state of purity and stainlessness, they show the state of not associating with evil ones, they show the state of being hard to penetrate, they show the state of requiring much restraint and protection.

How do they show the greatness of the plane? Just as, great king, a person who is poor, of low birth, without distinction, lacking in wisdom, having obtained great kingship would before long fall, collapse, decline from glory, and would not be able to maintain sovereignty. What is the reason? Due to the greatness of sovereignty. Even so, great king, whatever persons without distinction, who have not made merit, lacking in wisdom, go forth in the Conqueror's Teaching, being unable to maintain that excellent supreme going forth, before long having fallen, collapsed and declined from the Conqueror's Teaching, return to the low life, they are not able to maintain the Conqueror's Teaching. What is the reason? Due to the greatness of the plane of the Conqueror's Teaching. Thus they show the greatness of the plane.

How do they show the state of purity and stainlessness? Just as, great king, water on a lotus leaf scatters, disperses and breaks up, does not remain in place, does not cling. What is the reason? Due to the pure and stainless nature of the lotus. Even so, great king, whatever persons who are crafty, deceitful, crooked, dishonest and of wrong view go forth in the Conqueror's Teaching, having scattered, dispersed and broken up from the pure, stainless, thornless, bright, excellent and supreme Teaching, before long, not remaining established and not clinging, they return to the low life. What is the reason? Due to the pure and stainless nature of the Conqueror's Teaching. Thus they show the state of purity and stainlessness.

"How do they show the state of not associating with evil ones? Just as, great king, the great ocean does not coexist with a dead corpse; whatever dead corpse there is in the great ocean, it quickly carries it to the shore or washes it up on land. What is the reason? Because the great ocean is the dwelling of the great elements. Even so, great king, whatever evil, unrestrained, shameless, inactive, lacking in energy, lazy, defiled, bad human beings go forth in the Conqueror's Teaching, before long having departed from the Conqueror's Teaching, the dwelling of Arahants with stains destroyed and taints eliminated, not coexisting, they return to the low life. What is the reason? Because the Conqueror's Teaching does not coexist with evil ones. Thus they show the state of not associating with evil ones.

"How do they show the state of being hard to penetrate? Just as, great king, whatever unskilled, untrained, unaccomplished, lacking in intelligence archers, being unable to hit a hair's tip, slip away and depart. What is the reason? Due to the fine, subtle, hard to penetrate nature of the hair's tip. Even so, great king, whatever unwise, stupid, dumb, deluded, slow-witted people go forth in the Conqueror's Teaching, being unable to penetrate that supremely fine and subtle penetration of the four truths, having slipped away and departed from the Conqueror's Teaching, before long return to the low life. What is the reason? Due to the supremely fine, subtle, hard to penetrate nature of the truths. Thus they show the hard to penetrate nature.

"How do they show the nature of being protected by many restraints? Just as, great king, if some person having gone to a great battlefield, surrounded on all sides by enemy forces from every direction, seeing people approaching with spears in hand, being frightened, draws back, turns back and flees. What is the reason? Through fear of protecting himself from many kinds of warfare. Even so, great king, whatever evil, unrestrained, shameless, inactive, impatient, fickle, unstable, shallow foolish people go forth in the Conqueror's Teaching, being unable to protect the many kinds of training rules, having drawn back, turned back and fled, before long return to the low life. What is the reason? Because of the nature of the Conqueror's Teaching requiring protection of many kinds of restraint. Thus they show the nature requiring protection of many kinds of restraint.

"Even in the best land-grown jasmine bush, great king, there are flowers infested with worms, those buds shrivelled up fall off in between, but when they have fallen off the jasmine bush is not despised. Those flowers that remain there pervade all directions with their fragrance. Even so, great king, those who having gone forth in the Conqueror's Teaching return to the low life, they are like jasmine flowers pierced by worms, without beauty and fragrance, of ugly appearance and virtue, incapable of expansion, yet the Conqueror's Teaching is not despised because of their return to the low life. Those monks who remain there pervade the world with its deities with the fragrance of excellent virtue.

"Among healthy red rice plants, great king, a type of rice called karumbhaka arises and perishes in between, yet the red rice is not despised because of its perishing. Those rice plants that remain there become fit for the king's use. Even so, great king, those who having gone forth in the Conqueror's Teaching return to the low life, they are like wild rice among red rice plants, not growing and not reaching expansion in the Conqueror's Teaching, they return to the low life midway, yet the Conqueror's Teaching is not despised because of their return to the low life. Those monks who remain there become suitable for Arahantship.

"Even of a wish-fulfilling jewel-gem, great king, one part becomes rough, yet the jewel-gem is not despised because of the roughness arising there. What is pure there of the jewel-gem, that brings delight to people. Even so, great king, those who having gone forth in the Conqueror's Teaching return to the low life, they are rough splinters in the Conqueror's Teaching, yet the Conqueror's Teaching is not despised because of their return to the low life. Those monks who remain there become a source of delight for deities and human beings.

"Even of well-born red sandalwood, great king, one part becomes rotten with little fragrance. The red sandalwood is not despised because of that. What is there that is not rotten and fragrant, that spreads and pervades all around. Even so, great king, those who having gone forth in the Conqueror's Teaching return to the low life, they are like a rotten spot among the heartwood of red sandalwood to be discarded in the Conqueror's Teaching, yet the Conqueror's Teaching is not despised because of their return to the low life. Those monks who remain there anoint the world with its deities with the fragrance of excellent sandalwood of virtue."

"Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, through each fitting reason, through each similar cause, the Conqueror's Teaching has been shown to be faultless and illuminated as supreme, even those returning to the low life only illuminate the supremacy of the Conqueror's Teaching."

The Question about Returning to the Lower Life, the fifth.

6.

The Question About the Arahant's Experiencing of Feeling

6. "Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'an Arahant feels one feeling, bodily not mental'. But Venerable Nāgasena, is the Arahant not master, owner, controller of his mind which operates depending on the body?" "Yes, great king." "It is not proper, Venerable Nāgasena, that he is not master, owner, controller of his own mind operating in his body; even a bird, Venerable Sir, is master, owner, controller of whatever nest it dwells in."

"These ten things connected with the body, great king, follow and revolve with the body in existence after existence. What are the ten? Cold, heat, hunger, thirst, excrement, urine, torpor, aging, sickness and death. These ten things connected with the body, great king, follow and revolve with the body in existence after existence, and there the Arahant is not master, owner, or controller."

"Venerable Nāgasena, for what reason does the Arahant not have authority or control over the body? Tell me the reason for this." "Just as, great king, whatever beings are dependent on the earth, all of them walk, dwell and make their living dependent on the earth, but great king, do they have authority or control over the earth?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Even so, great king, the Arahant's mind operates dependent on the body, but the Arahant does not have authority or control over the body."

"Venerable Nāgasena, for what reason does a worldling feel both bodily and mental feeling?" "Great king, because of the undevelopment of the mind, a worldling feels both bodily and mental feeling. Just as, great king, a hungry, anxious ox would be tied with weak, feeble, small grass or creeper, when that ox becomes agitated, then it goes away together with the binding. Even so, great king, when feeling arises in one with undeveloped mind, it agitates the mind, and the agitated mind bends, twists and writhes the body. Then that one with undeveloped mind trembles, cries out and utters fearful cries. This, great king, is the reason for which reason a worldling feels both bodily and mental feeling."

"But what is the reason for which reason an Arahant feels one feeling, bodily not mental?" "Great king, the Arahant's mind is developed, well developed, tamed, well tamed, obedient and compliant. When touched by painful feeling, he firmly grasps 'impermanent', binds the mind to the post of concentration. That mind bound to the post of concentration does not tremble, does not shake, remains stable, undistracted. Though due to the disturbance and turmoil of feeling his body twists, writhes and turns around, this, great king, is the reason for which reason an Arahant feels one feeling, bodily not mental."

"Venerable Nāgasena, it is indeed wonderful in the world that when the body is moving the mind does not move. Tell me the reason for this." "Just as, great king, when a great huge tree complete with trunk, branches and leaves is struck by the force of wind, the branches shake, does its trunk also shake?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Even so, great king, when an Arahant is touched by painful feeling, he firmly grasps 'impermanent', binds the mind to the post of concentration. That mind bound to the post of concentration does not tremble, does not shake, remains stable, undistracted. Though due to the disturbance and turmoil of feeling his body twists, writhes and turns around, yet his mind does not tremble, does not shake, like the trunk of the great tree." "Wonderful, Venerable Sir Nāgasena, marvellous, Venerable Sir Nāgasena, never before have I seen such an eternal lamp of Teaching."

The Question about the Arahant's Experiencing of Feeling, the sixth.

7.

The Question About What Prevents Breakthrough

7. "Venerable Nāgasena, here if any layperson were to commit a defeat offence, and at a later time they were to go forth, and they themselves did not know 'I committed a defeat offence as a layperson', and no one else would tell them 'You committed a defeat offence as a layperson'. And if they were to practise for that purpose, would there be a breakthrough to the Teaching for them?" "No, great king." "For what reason, Venerable Sir?" "That which would be the cause for their breakthrough to the Teaching has been cut off for them, therefore there is no breakthrough to the Teaching."

"Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'For one who knows there is remorse, when there is remorse there is an obstruction, when the mind is obstructed there is no breakthrough to the Teaching'. But for this one who does not know, in whom remorse has not arisen, who dwells with a peaceful mind, for what reason is there no breakthrough to the Teaching, this question proceeds from unrighteous to unrighteous, reflect and answer."

"Great king, does seed that is well-stored in autumn grow when sown in well-ploughed, well-moistened, clean field?" "Yes, Venerable Sir." "But, great king, would that same seed grow on solid rock and stone?" "No, Venerable Sir." "But why, great king, does that same seed grow in mud, why does it not grow on solid rock?" "There is no cause, Venerable Sir, for that seed to grow on solid rock, without a cause the seed does not grow." "Even so, great king, the cause by which there would be breakthrough to the Teaching for him has been cut off, without a cause there is no breakthrough to the Teaching.

"Moreover, great king, sticks, clods, balls and hammers come to rest on the earth, but great king, do those same sticks, clods, balls and hammers come to rest in the sky?" "No, Venerable Sir." "But what, great king, is the reason here, for what reason do those sticks, clods, balls and hammers come to rest on the earth, for what reason do they not remain in the sky?" "There is no cause, Venerable Sir, for those sticks, clods, balls and hammers to remain in space, without a cause they do not remain." Even so, great king, through that fault his cause for breakthrough has been cut off, when there is uprooting of cause, without a cause there is no breakthrough.

"Moreover, great king, fire burns on land, but great king, does that same fire burn in water?" "No, Venerable Sir." "But what, great king, is the reason here, for what reason does that same fire burn on land, for what reason does it not burn in water?" "There is no cause, Venerable Sir, for fire to burn in water, without a cause it does not burn." "Even so, great king, through that fault his cause for breakthrough has been cut off, when there is uprooting of cause, without a cause there is no breakthrough to the Teaching."

"Venerable Nāgasena, consider this matter again, I am not convinced about it, that for one who does not know, when there is no remorse, there is an obstruction. Convince me with a reason." "Great king, does poison halāhala take away life when eaten unknowingly?" "Yes, Venerable Sir." Even so, great king, evil done even unknowingly creates an obstacle to breakthrough.

"Great king, does fire burn one who steps on it unknowingly?" "Yes, Venerable Sir." Even so, great king, evil done even unknowingly creates an obstacle to breakthrough.

"Great king, does a venomous snake take away life when it bites one who is unaware?" "Yes, Venerable Sir." Even so, great king, evil done even unknowingly creates an obstacle to breakthrough.

"Did not King Kāliṅga, the ascetic of good birth, surrounded by the seven treasures, mounted on the elephant-treasure, going to see his family, even unknowingly was unable to go above the seat of enlightenment? This, great king, is the reason for which reason evil done even unknowingly creates an obstacle to breakthrough." "The reason stated by the Victor, Venerable Nāgasena, cannot be refuted, thus we accept this meaning."

The Question about What Prevents Breakthrough, the seventh.

8.

The Question About the Immoral

8. "Venerable Nāgasena, what is the distinction between an immoral householder and an immoral ascetic, what is the difference? Do both have the same destination, do both have exactly the same result, or is there any difference?"

"Great king, these are the ten qualities of an immoral ascetic that exceed those of an immoral householder, and in ten ways he purifies the offering further.

"What are the ten qualities of an immoral ascetic that exceed those of an immoral householder? Here, great king, an immoral ascetic is reverential towards the Enlightened One, reverential towards the Teaching, reverential towards the Community, reverential towards fellow monks, strives in recitation and questioning, is of much learning. Though of broken virtue, great king, the immoral one when in the assembly establishes proper deportment, guards bodily and verbal conduct through fear of blame, his mind faces towards striving, and he has entered into the state of being a monk. Even when doing evil, great king, the immoral ascetic acts in secret. Just as, great king, a woman with a husband acts evilly in hiding, secretly; even so, great king, even when doing evil, the immoral ascetic acts in secret. These, great king, are the ten qualities of an immoral ascetic that exceed those of an immoral householder.

"In what ten ways does he purify the offering further? He purifies the offering by maintaining blameless speech, he purifies the offering by wearing the shaven head and marks of an ascetic sage, he purifies the offering by having entered into the Community's way of life, he purifies the offering by having gone for refuge to the Buddha, Teaching and Community, he purifies the offering by dwelling in an abode of striving, he purifies the offering by seeking to uphold the Conqueror's Dispensation, he purifies the offering by teaching the supreme Teaching, he purifies the offering by having the Teaching as light and destination, he purifies the offering by the completely upright view that 'the Buddha is foremost', he purifies the offering by undertaking the Uposatha observance. Great king, in these ten ways he purifies the offering further.

For even a very immoral ascetic, great king, purifies the offerings of donors. Just as, great king, water removes even a great deal of mud, dirt, dust and grime; even so, great king, even a very immoral ascetic purifies the offerings of donors.

"Moreover, great king, just as hot water even when well heated extinguishes a great blazing mass of fire, even so, great king, even a very immoral ascetic purifies the offerings of donors.

"Moreover, great king, just as even tasteless food removes hunger and weakness, even so, great king, even a very immoral ascetic purifies the offerings of donors.

"This too was spoken, great king, by the Truth Finder, deity above deities, in the excellent seal of the Middle Order, in the exposition of the Analysis of Offerings -

"Wonderful, Venerable Sir Nāgasena, marvellous, Venerable Sir Nāgasena, we asked such a question, and you, illuminating it with similes and reasons, have made it sweet as the Deathless and pleasing to hear. Just as, Venerable Sir, a cook or a cook's apprentice having obtained such meat prepares it with various ingredients and makes it fit for a king's consumption; even so, Venerable Nāgasena, we asked such a question, and you, having illuminated it with similes and reasons, have made it sweet as the Deathless and pleasing to hear."

The Eighth Question, about the Immoral.

9.

Question About Living Beings in Water

9. "Venerable Nāgasena, when this water is being heated in a fire it sizzles, hisses, makes sounds in many ways. But Venerable Nāgasena, does water live, does it make sounds while playing, or does it make sounds when pressed by something else?" "No, great king, water does not live, there is no life or being in water. However, great king, due to the greatness of the force of the fire's heat, water sizzles, hisses, makes sounds in many ways."

"Venerable Nāgasena, here some sectarians rejecting cold water saying 'water lives', heat water and use it when it has changed colour. They blame and despise you saying 'The ascetics, sons of the Sakyans, harm a one-facultied living being.' Remove, eliminate, drive out that blame and contempt of theirs." "No, great king, water does not live, there is no life or being in water, great king. However, great king, due to the greatness of the force of the fire's heat, water sizzles, hisses, makes sounds in many ways.

"Just as, great king, water in pools, lakes, rivers, ponds, tanks, crevices, chasms, wells, hollows and lotus ponds is exhausted and comes to utter destruction due to the greatness of the force of wind and heat, does water there sizzle, hiss, make sounds in many ways?" "No, Venerable Sir." "If, great king, water lived, water there too would make sounds. By this reason too, great king, know 'there is no life or being in water, due to the greatness of the force of the fire's heat, water sizzles, hisses, makes sounds in many ways.'"

"Great king, hear another further reason 'there is no life or being in water, due to the greatness of the force of the fire's heat, water makes sounds.'" "But great king, when water mixed with rice is placed in a covered vessel not set on the stove, does water there make sounds?" "No, Venerable Sir, it is motionless, completely peaceful." "But great king, when that same water placed in a vessel is set on the stove with fire lit, is water there motionless, completely peaceful?" "No, Venerable Sir, it moves, is agitated, stirred, turbid, becomes wavy, goes up and down in all directions, rises and falls, becomes crowned with foam." "But why, great king, does natural water not move and is completely peaceful, why does water affected by fire move, is agitated, stirred, turbid, becomes wavy, goes up and down in all directions, rises and falls, becomes crowned with foam?" "Venerable Sir, natural water does not move, but water affected by fire, due to the greatness of the force of the fire's heat, sizzles, hisses, makes sounds in many ways." "By this reason too, great king, know 'there is no life or being in water, due to the greatness of the force of the fire's heat water makes sounds.'"

"Great king, hear another further reason 'there is no life or being in water, due to the greatness of the force of the fire's heat water makes sounds.'" "Is there, great king, water in every house contained in water pots, covered?" "Yes, Venerable Sir." "But does that water, great king, move, is agitated, stirred, turbid, becomes wavy, goes up and down in all directions, rises and falls, becomes crowned with foam?" "No, Venerable Sir, that natural water contained in water pots is motionless."

"Have you heard before, great king, 'In the great ocean water moves, is agitated, stirred, turbid, becomes wavy, goes up and down in all directions, rises and falls, becomes crowned with foam, surging up and down, strikes the shore, makes sounds in many ways'?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, I have heard this before and seen it too 'in the great ocean water rises up into the sky a hundred hands or even two hundred hands.'" "Why, great king, does water in a water pot not move and not make sounds, but why does water in the great ocean move and make sounds?" "Due to the greatness of the force of the wind, Venerable Sir, water in the great ocean moves and makes sounds, water in a water pot, not being struck by anything, does not move and does not make sounds." "Just as, great king, due to the greatness of the force of the wind, water in the great ocean moves and makes sounds, even so due to the greatness of the force of the fire's heat, water makes sounds."

"Great king, do they not cover a dry drum head with dry cow hide?" "Yes, Venerable Sir." "But great king, is there a life or being in a drum?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Then why, great king, does the drum make sound?" "Through the appropriate effort of a woman or a man, Venerable Sir." "Just as, great king, a drum makes sound through the appropriate effort of a woman or a man, even so water makes sound due to the greatness of the force of the fire's heat. By this reason too, great king, know 'there is no life or being in water, water makes sound due to the greatness of the force of the fire's heat.'"

"I too have something to ask you first, great king, thus this question is well decided. But great king, does water when being heated make sound in all vessels, or does it make sound when being heated only in certain vessels?" "No, Venerable Sir, water when being heated does not make sound in all vessels, it makes sound when being heated only in certain vessels." "Then, great king, you have abandoned your own doctrine, you have come back to my domain, there is no life or being in water. If, great king, water when being heated would make sound in all vessels, it would be fitting to say 'water lives.' For, great king, water is not twofold, that which makes sound lives, that which does not make sound does not live. If, great king, water lived, when great bull elephants with swollen bodies and in rut draw up water with their trunks, put it in their mouths and make it enter their bellies, that water too being squeezed between their teeth would make sound. Ships a hundred hands long, heavy and weighty, filled with many hundred thousand loads, travel in the great ocean, water being squeezed by them too would make sound. Great fish with bodies many hundred yojanas long, timī, timiṅgala and timirapiṅgala, submerged inside, dwelling in the great ocean for residence, drink and blow out great streams of water, water being squeezed between their teeth too and inside their bellies would make sound. But because, great king, water being pressed by such great pressures does not make sound, therefore too there is no life or being in water, remember this thus, great king."

"Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, the question has come to its conclusion, divided by a fitting division, just as, Venerable Sir, a precious gem-jewel coming to a skilled, expert, trained jeweller would gain fame, praise and commendation, or a pearl-jewel coming to a pearl-worker, or a cloth-jewel coming to a cloth-worker, or red sandalwood coming to a perfumer would gain fame, praise and commendation. Even so, Venerable Nāgasena, the question has come to its conclusion, divided by a fitting division, thus we accept it."

Ninth Question about Living Beings in Water.

The First Chapter about the Buddha.

In this chapter there are nine questions.

2.

The Chapter about the Absence of Proliferation

1.

The Question About the Absence of Proliferation

1. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was spoken by the Blessed One: 'Monks, dwell delighting in the absence of proliferation, taking delight in the absence of proliferation.' What is that absence of proliferation?" "The fruit of stream-entry, great king, is absence of proliferation, the fruit of once-returning is absence of proliferation, the fruit of non-returning is absence of proliferation, the fruit of arahantship is absence of proliferation."

"If, Venerable Nāgasena, the fruit of stream-entry is absence of proliferation, the fruit of once-returning, non-returning and arahantship is absence of proliferation, then why do these monks recite and question about the discourses, mixed prose and verse, explanations, verses, inspired utterances, quotations, birth stories, marvellous accounts, and questions-and-answers, are hindered by new buildings and by giving and offerings? Are they not doing work rejected by the Conqueror?"

"Those monks, great king, who recite and question about the discourses, mixed prose and verse, explanations, verses, inspired utterances, quotations, birth stories, marvellous accounts, and questions-and-answers, are hindered by new buildings and by giving and offerings, all of them do it for the attainment of absence of proliferation. Those, great king, who are pure by nature, who have cultivated habits in the past, they become free from proliferation in a single moment of consciousness. But those monks who have great defilements, they become free from proliferation through these methods.

"Great king, suppose one person having sown seed in a field would harvest the grain without a fence or wall through his own strength and energy, another person having sown seed in a field would enter the forest, cut wood and branches, make a fence and wall, and harvest the grain. His search for fence and wall there is for the sake of grain. Even so, great king, those who are pure by nature, who have cultivated habits in the past, they become free from proliferation in a single moment of consciousness, like a person taking grain without fence and wall. But those monks who have great defilements, they become free from proliferation through these methods, like a person taking grain having made a fence and wall.

"Moreover, great king, suppose there were a cluster of fruit at the top of a very great mango tree, and then some person with spiritual power would come there and take its fruit, but one without spiritual power would cut sticks and creepers, bind a ladder, climb that tree by it and take the fruit. His search for a ladder there is for the sake of fruit. Even so, great king, those who are pure by nature, who have cultivated habits in the past, they become free from proliferation in a single moment of consciousness, like one with spiritual power taking fruit from a tree. But those monks who have great defilements, they penetrate the truths through this method, like a person taking fruit from a tree by means of a ladder.

"Moreover, great king, just as one person with a legal case going alone to the owner accomplishes his purpose. One who is wealthy, having increased his assembly through wealth, accomplishes his purpose through the assembly. His search for an assembly there is for the sake of purpose. Even so, great king, those who are pure by nature, who have cultivated habits in the past, they attain mastery in the six direct knowledges in a single moment of consciousness, like a person alone accomplishing success in purpose. But those monks who have great defilements, they achieve the purpose of recluseship through these methods, like a person accomplishing success in purpose through an assembly.

"Synopsis too, great king, is very beneficial, questioning too is very beneficial, new work too is very beneficial, giving too is very beneficial, veneration too is very beneficial in various tasks. Just as, great king, a person who serves the king is accomplished with ministers, soldiers, troops, doorkeepers, army officers and courtiers, and they all become helpful when his task has arisen. Even so, great king, synopsis too is very beneficial, questioning too is very beneficial, new work too is very beneficial, giving too is very beneficial, veneration too is very beneficial in various tasks. If, great king, all were naturally pure, there would be nothing to be done with instruction. But because, great king, there is something to be done with hearing, the elder Sāriputta, great king, who had accumulated wholesome roots for an immeasurable, incalculable aeon and had reached the peak of wisdom, even he without hearing was not able to attain the destruction of taints. Therefore, great king, hearing is very beneficial, and so too are synopsis and questioning. Therefore synopsis and questioning too are without proliferation, conditioned." "Well explained, Venerable Nāgasena, is the question, thus we accept it."

First Question about the Absence of Proliferation.

2.

Question About the State of One with Taints Destroyed

2. "Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'when a householder has attained Arahantship, there are only two destinations for him, no others: on that very day he either goes forth or attains final Nibbāna. He cannot pass beyond that day.' If, Venerable Nāgasena, on that day he would not obtain a teacher or preceptor or bowl and robe, would that Arahant go forth by himself or pass beyond the day, or would some other Arahant with spiritual power come and make him go forth or attain final Nibbāna?" "That Arahant, great king, would not go forth by himself, going forth by himself he would incur theft, and he would not pass beyond the day, whether another Arahant's coming would happen or not happen, he would attain final Nibbāna on that very day." "Then, Venerable Nāgasena, the peaceful state of Arahantship is abandoned, since there is taking of life for one who has attained it."

"The householder state is unrighteous, great king, due to the weakness of state in an unrighteous state, a householder who has attained Arahantship on that very day either goes forth or attains final Nibbāna. This, great king, is not a fault of Arahantship, this is just a fault of the householder state, namely the weakness of state.

Just as, great king, food which maintains life and protects existence for all beings takes life through indigestion in one with an unrighteous stomach and weak, sluggish digestion. This, great king, is not a fault of the food, this is just a fault of the stomach, namely the weakness of fire. Even so, great king, due to the weakness of state in an unrighteous state, a householder who has attained Arahantship on that very day either goes forth or attains final Nibbāna. This, great king, is not a fault of Arahantship, this is just a fault of the householder state, namely the weakness of state.

Moreover, great king, when a heavy stone is placed on top of a small grass blade, due to weakness it breaks and falls. Even so, great king, a householder who has attained Arahantship, being unable to maintain Arahantship in that state, on that very day either goes forth or attains final Nibbāna.

"Moreover, great king, just as a person who is weak, feeble, of low birth, with little merit, having obtained great kingship, in a moment falls, collapses, draws back, and is not able to maintain sovereignty, even so, great king, a householder who has attained Arahantship is not able to maintain Arahantship in that state, for this reason on that very day he either goes forth or attains final Nibbāna." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

Second Question about the State of One with Taints Destroyed.

3.

Question About the Forgetfulness of One with Taints Destroyed

3. "Venerable Nāgasena, does an Arahant have forgetfulness?" "Great king, Arahants are free from forgetfulness, there is no forgetfulness for Arahants." "But Venerable Sir, could an Arahant commit an offence?" "Yes, great king." "In what matter?" "In building a hut, in acting as a go-between, perceiving it is the right time when it is the wrong time, perceiving one has not been invited when one has been invited, perceiving food is leftover when it is not leftover."

"Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'those who commit offences do so for two reasons: through disrespect or through not knowing'. "But Venerable Sir, does an Arahant have disrespect, that an Arahant commits an offence?" "No, great king."

"If, Venerable Nāgasena, an Arahant commits an offence, and there is no disrespect in an Arahant, then does an Arahant have forgetfulness?" "There is not, great king, forgetfulness of mindfulness in an Arahant, yet an Arahant commits an offence."

"Then, Venerable Sir, convince me with a reason, what is the reason there?" "There are these two defilements, great king: natural wrong and prescribed wrong. What, great king, is natural wrong? The ten unwholesome courses of action, this is called natural wrong. What is prescribed wrong? What in the world is unsuitable and unfitting for ascetics, but blameless for householders. Regarding that, the Blessed One lays down a training rule for disciples 'not to be transgressed for life.' Eating at the wrong time, great king, is blameless in the world, but wrong in the Conqueror's Dispensation. Damaging plant life, great king, is blameless in the world, but wrong in the Conqueror's Dispensation. Playing in water, great king, is blameless in the world, but wrong in the Conqueror's Dispensation. Thus such and such things, great king, are wrong in the Conqueror's Dispensation, this is called prescribed wrong.

"One with taints destroyed is incapable of committing natural wrong, but might commit prescribed wrong through not knowing. It is not within the domain, great king, for some arahants to know everything, for they do not have the power to know everything. Unknown to an arahant, great king, are even the names and clans of men and women, and the path on this earth is unknown to him; only liberation, great king, would some arahants know; an arahant with six direct knowledges would know his own domain; the Truth Finder alone, great king, being omniscient, knows everything." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

Question about the Forgetfulness of One with Taints Destroyed, Third.

4.

Question About What Does Not Exist in the World

4. "Venerable Sir Nāgasena, in the world there are seen Enlightened Ones, there are seen privately enlightened ones, there are seen disciples of the Truth Finder, there are seen wheel-turning monarchs, there are seen regional kings, there are seen deities and human beings, there are seen wealthy ones, there are seen poor ones, there are seen those of good destination, there are seen those of bad destination, there is seen a woman's characteristics appearing in a man, there is seen a man's characteristics appearing in a woman, there is seen well done and badly done action, there are seen beings experiencing the results of good and bad actions, there are in the world beings egg-born, womb-born, moisture-born, and spontaneously reborn, there are beings with no feet, two feet, four feet, many feet, there are in the world spirits, demons, kumbhaṇḍas, titans, dānavas, gandhabbas, ghosts, and goblins, there are kinnaras, great serpents, dragons, supaṇṇas, accomplished ones, and knowledge-bearers, there are elephants, horses, cattle, buffaloes, camels, donkeys, goats, sheep, deer, pigs, lions, tigers, leopards, bears, wolves, hyenas, dogs, jackals, there are many kinds of birds, there are gold, silver, pearls, gems, conch, stone, coral, ruby, cat's eye, beryl, diamond, crystal, iron, copper, round metal, bronze, there are linen, silk, cotton, hemp, jute, wool, there are rice, paddy, barley, millet, kudrūsa grain, beans, wheat, green gram, black gram, sesame, horse gram, there are root fragrance, heartwood fragrance, sapwood fragrance, bark fragrance, leaf fragrance, flower fragrance, fruit fragrance, all fragrances, there are grass, creepers, shrubs, trees, herbs, forest plants, rivers, mountains, oceans, fish and turtles, everything exists in the world. Venerable Sir, tell me what does not exist in the world."

"Great king, these three things do not exist in the world. What are the three? In the world there are no beings, conscious or unconscious, who are free from aging and death, there is no permanence of formations, there is no acquisition of beings in the ultimate sense. These, great king, are the three things that do not exist in the world." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

Fourth question about what does not exist in the world.

5.

The Question About What is Not Born of Action and So Forth

5. "Venerable Sir Nāgasena, in the world there are seen things born of action, there are seen things born of cause, there are seen things born of season. Tell me what in the world is not born of action, not born of cause, not born of season." "These two things in the world, great king, are not born of action, not born of cause, not born of season. Which two? Space, great king, is not born of action, not born of cause, not born of season; Nibbāna, great king, is not born of action, not born of cause, not born of season. These, great king, are the two things not born of action, not born of cause, not born of season."

"Do not, Venerable Sir Nāgasena, denigrate the Conqueror's word, do not answer the question without knowing!" "What, great king, do I say, that you tell me thus: 'Do not, Venerable Nāgasena, denigrate the Conqueror's word, do not answer the question without knowing'?" "Venerable Nāgasena, it is reasonable to say this much: 'Space is not born of action, not born of cause, not born of season.' But Venerable Nāgasena, the Blessed One has explained the path for the realization of Nibbāna to disciples through hundreds of reasons, yet you say thus: 'Nibbāna is without cause.'" "True, great king, the Blessed One has explained the path for the realization of Nibbāna to disciples through hundreds of reasons, but he has not explained a cause for the arising of Nibbāna."

"Here, Venerable Nāgasena, we enter from darkness into deeper darkness, from forest into deeper forest, from thicket into deeper thicket, for while there is a cause for the realization of Nibbāna, there is no cause for the arising of that state. If, Venerable Nāgasena, there is a cause for the realization of Nibbāna, then a cause should be desired for the arising of Nibbāna too.

"Just as, Venerable Nāgasena, a son has a father, for that reason a father too should have a father. Just as a student has a teacher, for that reason a teacher too should have a teacher. Just as a sprout has a seed, for that reason a seed too should have a seed. Even so, Venerable Nāgasena, if there is a cause for the realization of Nibbāna, for that reason a cause should be desired for the arising of Nibbāna too.

"Just as when there is a top of a tree or creeper, for that reason there is also a middle and a root. Even so, Venerable Nāgasena, if there is a cause for the realization of Nibbāna, for that reason a cause should be desired for the arising of Nibbāna too."

"Nibbāna cannot be produced, great king, therefore no cause for the arising of Nibbāna has been explained." "Come now, Venerable Nāgasena, show me the reason and convince me with a reason, so that I may know that there is a cause for the realization of Nibbāna, but there is no cause for the arising of Nibbāna."

"Then, great king, lend your ear attentively, listen carefully, I shall speak the reason for this. Could a person, great king, with ordinary strength go from here to the Himavant, the king of mountains?" "Yes, Venerable Sir." "But could that person, great king, with ordinary strength bring here the Himavant, king of mountains?" "No, Venerable Sir." Even so, great king, it is possible to explain the path for the realization of Nibbāna, it is not possible to show a cause for the arising of Nibbāna.

"Could a person, great king, with ordinary strength cross the great ocean by boat and go to the far shore?" "Yes, Venerable Sir." "But could that person, great king, with ordinary strength bring here the far shore of the great ocean?" "No, Venerable Sir." Even so, great king, it is possible to explain the path for the realization of Nibbāna, it is not possible to show a cause for the arising of Nibbāna. For what reason? Because of the unconditioned nature of the Teaching."

"Is Nibbāna unconditioned, Venerable Nāgasena?" "Yes, great king, Nibbāna is unconditioned, not made by anyone. Nibbāna, great king, cannot be said to be arisen or not arisen or to be produced, or past or future or present, or cognizable by the eye or cognizable by the ear or cognizable by the nose or cognizable by the tongue or cognizable by the body." "If, Venerable Nāgasena, Nibbāna is not arisen, not not arisen, not to be produced, not past, not future, not present, not cognizable by the eye, not cognizable by the ear, not cognizable by the nose, not cognizable by the tongue, not cognizable by the body, then, Venerable Nāgasena, you point to Nibbāna as a non-existent thing, 'Nibbāna does not exist'." "There is Nibbāna, great king. Nibbāna is cognizable by the mind. A noble disciple who is practising rightly sees Nibbāna with a purified mind that is sublime, straight, unobstructed, and unworldly."

"But what, Venerable Sir, is that Nibbāna like? Convince me with similes that can illustrate it and with reasons, how it can be illustrated with similes as an existing thing." "Is there, great king, something called wind?" "Yes, Venerable Sir." "Come now, great king, show the wind by its colour or shape, whether it is small or large, long or short." "It is not possible, Venerable Nāgasena, to show the wind. That wind cannot be grasped by hand or pressed, yet that wind exists." "If, great king, it is not possible to show the wind, then does the wind not exist?" "I know, Venerable Nāgasena, that wind exists - it has entered into my heart - but I am not able to show the wind." "Even so, great king, Nibbāna exists, but it is not possible to show Nibbāna by colour or shape." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, the simile is well shown, the reason well explained. Thus I accept it that 'Nibbāna exists'."

The Question About What is Not Born of Action and So Forth, the fifth.

6.

The Question About What is Born of Action and So Forth

6. "Venerable Nāgasena, which among these are born of action, which are born of cause, which are born of season, which are not born of action, not born of cause, not born of season?" "Whatever beings there are with consciousness, all of them are born of action; fire and all types of seeds are born of cause; earth and mountains and water and wind, all these are born of season; space and Nibbāna, these two are not born of action, not born of cause, not born of season. But Nibbāna, great king, cannot be said to be born of action, or born of cause, or born of season, or arisen, or not arisen, or to be produced, or past, or future, or present, or cognizable by the eye, or cognizable by the ear, or cognizable by the nose, or cognizable by the tongue, or cognizable by the body. However, great king, Nibbāna is cognizable by the mind, which the noble disciple who practises rightly sees with purified knowledge." "Delightful, Venerable Nāgasena, is the question, well decided, free from doubt, conclusive, uncertainty is cut off, you are the foremost among the excellent teachers."

The sixth question, about what is born of action and so forth.

7.

Question About Spirits

7. "Venerable Nāgasena, are there what are called spirits in the world?" "Yes, great king, there are what are called spirits in the world." "But Venerable Sir, do these spirits fall from that realm?" "Yes, great king, these spirits fall from that realm." "But why, Venerable Nāgasena, is the body of these dead spirits not seen, and the smell of their corpse is not detected?" "The body of dead spirits is seen, great king, and the smell of their corpse is detected. The body of dead spirits, great king, is seen in the form of an insect, or is seen in the form of a worm, or is seen in the form of an ant, or is seen in the form of a grasshopper, or is seen in the form of a snake, or is seen in the form of a scorpion, or is seen in the form of a centipede, or is seen in the form of a bird, or is seen in the form of a wild animal." "Who else, Venerable Nāgasena, when asked this question could answer it except one wise like you?"

The seventh question, about spirits.

8.

The Question About Training Rules Without Exception

8. "Venerable Nāgasena, there were former teachers of medicine, that is: Nārada, Dhammantarī, Aṅgirasa, Kapila, Kaṇḍaraggi, Sāma, Atula, and Pubbakaccāyana. All these teachers, having known completely at once the arising of disease, its cause, its nature, its origin, its treatment, its action, and its success or failure, saying 'in this body so many diseases will arise', made a complete collection and bound it into a text. All these were not omniscient. But why did the Truth Finder, being omniscient and knowing future actions through the Buddha-knowledge, not lay down training rules completely without exception, having determined 'for so many cases so many training rules will need to be laid down', but laid down training rules for disciples at various times when cases arose, when disgrace appeared, when faults became widespread and common, when people complained?"

"Great king, it was known to the Truth Finder that 'at this time, for these people, more than one hundred and fifty training rules will need to be laid down'. However, the Truth Finder thought thus: 'If I lay down more than one hundred and fifty training rules all at once, people will be alarmed thinking "there is much to be guarded here, it is indeed difficult to go forth in the Teaching of the ascetic Gotama". Those wishing to go forth will not go forth, and they will not believe my word. Not believing, these people will become destined for the plane of misery. Therefore I will lay down training rules when cases arise, having explained through teaching the Teaching, when faults become apparent.'" "Wonderful, Venerable Sir Nāgasena, of the Buddhas, marvellous, Venerable Sir Nāgasena, of the Buddhas, how great is the omniscient knowledge of the Truth Finder, so it is, Venerable Sir Nāgasena, this meaning is well explained by the Truth Finder, having heard 'much has to be trained in here', beings would become frightened, not even one would go forth in the Victor's Dispensation, thus we accept it."

The Eighth Question about Training Rules Without Exception.

9.

The Question About the Sun's Heat

9. "Venerable Nāgasena, does this sun always shine intensely, or does it sometimes shine mildly?" "Great king, the sun always shines intensely, it never shines mildly." "If, Venerable Nāgasena, the sun always shines intensely, then why does the sun sometimes shine intensely and sometimes shine mildly?" "Great king, there are these four afflictions of the sun, affected by any one of which the sun shines mildly. Which four? Great king, clouds are an affliction of the sun, affected by this affliction the sun shines mildly. Great king, mist is an affliction of the sun, affected by this affliction the sun shines mildly. Great king, storm clouds are an affliction of the sun, affected by this affliction the sun shines mildly. Great king, Rāhu is an affliction of the sun, affected by this affliction the sun shines mildly. These, great king, are the four afflictions of the sun, affected by any one of which the sun shines mildly." "Wonderful, Venerable Sir Nāgasena, marvellous, Venerable Sir Nāgasena, that even the sun, so endowed with heat, will be affected by affliction, what then of other beings. This analysis is not possible for another except for one wise like you."

The Question about the Sun's Heat is ninth.

10.

The Question About Intense Heat

10. "Venerable Nāgasena, why does the sun shine more intensely in winter than in summer?" "Great king, in summer the dust and dirt are undisturbed, dust particles stirred by the wind pervade the sky, there are many clouds in the space, and a great wind blows excessively. All these various disturbances combined obstruct the sun's rays, therefore in summer the sun shines mildly.

"But in winter, great king, the earth below is quenched, a great cloud bank stands above, the dust and dirt are settled, the dust moves very gently in the sky, the space is free from clouds, and the wind blows very mildly. Due to the cessation of these, the sun's rays are purified, and the heat of the sun, freed from obstructions, shines exceedingly intensely. This, great king, is the reason for which reason the sun shines intensely in winter, not so in summer." "Venerable Sir, when the sun is free from all calamities it shines intensely, when accompanied by clouds and such it does not shine intensely."

The Question about Intense Heat is the tenth.

The Second Chapter about the Absence of Proliferation.

In this chapter there are ten questions.

3.

The Chapter about Vessantara

1.

The Question About Vessantara

1. "Venerable Nāgasena, do all Bodhisattas give away their children and wife, or was it only by King Vessantara that children and wife were given away?" "All Bodhisattas, great king, give away their children and wife, it was not only by King Vessantara that children and wife were given away." "But Venerable Nāgasena, do they give them away with their consent?" "The wife, great king, consented, but the children wailed due to their immaturity. If they had truly understood, they too would have rejoiced, they would not have wailed."

"A difficult thing was done by the Bodhisatta, Venerable Nāgasena, in that he gave his own beloved children to the brahmin as slaves.

"This second thing was even more difficult than difficult, that he looked on with equanimity when he saw his own beloved children, young and tender, bound with creepers and being dragged along with creepers by that brahmin.

"This third thing was even more difficult than difficult, that when the children escaped from bondage by their own strength and returned frightened, he bound them again with creepers and gave them away.

"This fourth thing was even more difficult than difficult, that when the children were wailing 'Dear father, this spirit is taking us to eat us,' he did not comfort them saying 'Do not be afraid.'

"This fifth thing was even more difficult than difficult, that when Prince Jāli was crying and falling at his feet, begging 'Enough, dear father, send Kaṇhājina back, I alone will go with the spirit, let the spirit eat me,' he did not agree to this.

"This sixth thing was even more difficult than difficult, that he did not show compassion when Prince Jāli was wailing 'Dear father, your heart must be like stone, that you look on while we are suffering, being led away by the spirit in this vast forest devoid of human beings, and you do not stop it.'

"This seventh thing was even more difficult than difficult, that when the children were led away by that terrifying and fearsome one and taken out of sight, his heart did not split into a hundred or a thousand pieces. What is the use of causing suffering to others for a human being who desires merit? Should not one's own gift be given?"

"Great king, because of doing what is difficult, the Bodhisatta's fame spread among deities and human beings in the ten-thousand world systems, deities proclaim it in the deity realm, titans proclaim it in the titan realm, garuḷas proclaim it in the garuḷa realm, dragons proclaim it in the dragon realm, spirits proclaim it in the spirit realm, gradually his fame has come down in succession to our present time here, and we are sitting discussing that giving, debating whether it was well given or badly given. Now, great king, this fame shows ten qualities of the subtle, wise, learned, and discerning Bodhisattas. What are the ten? Non-greed, non-attachment, giving up, abandoning, non-returning, subtlety, greatness, difficulty to understand, rarity, incomparability of the Buddha's Teaching, now, great king, this fame shows these ten qualities of the subtle, wise, learned, and discerning Bodhisattas."

"Venerable Nāgasena, when one gives a gift having caused suffering to another, does that gift result in happiness and lead to heaven?" "Yes, great king, what is there to say?" "Come now, Venerable Nāgasena, show me the reason." "Here, great king, some ascetic or brahmin might be virtuous, of good nature, and he might be paralyzed or a cripple or afflicted with some illness, and someone desiring merit might put him in a vehicle and take him to his desired destination. But great king, would any happiness arise for that person on that account, would that action lead to heaven?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, what is there to say? Venerable Sir, that person would obtain an elephant vehicle or horse vehicle or chariot vehicle, on land a land vehicle, on water a water vehicle, among deities a divine vehicle, among humans a human vehicle, fitting and suitable would arise for him in each existence, and fitting and suitable pleasures would arise for him, he would go from good destination to good destination, and by that very stream of action, having mounted the vehicle of spiritual power, he would reach the desired city of Nibbāna." "Then, great king, a gift given by causing suffering to another results in happiness and leads to heaven, when that person experiences such happiness having caused suffering to oxen.

"Great king, hear another further reason how a gift given by causing suffering to another results in happiness and leads to heaven. "Here, great king, if any king having collected righteous tribute from the country would give a gift through the exercise of authority, would that king, great king, experience any happiness on that account, would that gift lead to heaven?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, what is there to say? On that account, Venerable Sir, that king would gain many hundred thousand times more. He would become king above kings, deity above deities, brahmā above brahmās, ascetic above ascetics, brahmin above brahmins, accomplished one above accomplished ones." "Then, great king, a gift given by causing suffering to another results in happiness and leads to heaven, when that king experiences such superior fame and happiness through giving gifts having oppressed people with tribute."

"An excessive gift, Venerable Nāgasena, was given by King Vessantara, in that he gave his own wife to be another's wife, gave his own children to the brahmin as slaves. An excessive gift, Venerable Nāgasena, is censured and blamed by the wise in the world, just as, Venerable Nāgasena, through excessive load the axle of a cart breaks, through excessive load a ship sinks, through excessive eating food becomes unrighteous, through excessive rain grain is destroyed, through excessive giving one comes to destruction of wealth, through excessive heat the earth burns up, through excessive lust one becomes mad, through excessive hatred one becomes liable to punishment, through excessive delusion one meets with calamity, through excessive greed one comes to be seized as a thief, through excessive fear one perishes, through excessive flooding a river overflows, through excessive wind lightning strikes, through excessive fire rice boils over, through excessive wandering one does not live long. Even so, Venerable Nāgasena, excessive giving is censured and blamed by the wise in the world. Excessive giving, Venerable Nāgasena, was given by King Vessantara, no fruit should be desired there."

"Excessive giving, great king, is praised, extolled, and commended by the wise in the world. Whoever gives any kind of gift whatsoever, the excessive giver attains fame in the world. Just as, great king, divine medicine root though taken in hand is not shown to others standing nearby due to its supreme excellence, medicine due to its supreme birth destroys afflictions and is the maker of the end of diseases, fire due to its supreme heat burns, water due to its supreme coldness extinguishes, the lotus due to its purity does not cling to water and mud, a gem due to its supreme qualities grants wishes, a diamond due to its supreme sharpness pierces gems, pearls and crystal, the earth due to its supreme greatness bears human beings, serpents, beasts, birds, water, rocks, mountains and trees, the ocean due to its supreme greatness does not fill up, Mount Sineru due to its supreme weight does not move, space due to its supreme extent is endless, the sun due to its supreme radiance destroys darkness, the lion due to its supreme birth is free from fear, the wrestler due to his supreme strength quickly lifts up his opponent, the king due to his supreme merit is ruler, the monk due to his supreme virtue is worthy of reverence by dragons, spirits, human beings and deities, the Buddha due to his supreme excellence is incomparable. Even so, great king, excessive giving is praised, extolled and commended by the wise in the world. Whoever gives any kind of gift whatsoever, the excessive giver attains fame in the world. Through excessive giving King Vessantara was praised, extolled, commended, honoured and famed in the ten-thousandfold world system. Through that very excessive giving King Vessantara has now become the Buddha, foremost in the world with its deities.

"But great king, is there any gift in the world that should be set aside, that should not be given when a worthy recipient has arrived?" "Venerable Nāgasena, there are these ten gifts which are considered non-gifts in the world; whoever gives these gifts is bound for the plane of misery. What are the ten? Venerable Nāgasena, the gift of intoxicants is considered a non-gift in the world; whoever gives this gift is bound for the plane of misery. The gift of festivals...etc... the gift of women...etc... the gift of bulls...etc... the gift of paintings...etc... the gift of weapons...etc... the gift of poison...etc... the gift of chains...etc... the gift of fowls and pigs...etc... Venerable Nāgasena, the gift of false weights and measures is considered a non-gift in the world; whoever gives this gift is bound for the plane of misery. Venerable Nāgasena, these are the ten gifts which are considered non-gifts in the world; whoever gives these gifts is bound for the plane of misery."

"I am not asking you, great king, about what is considered a non-gift. This is what I am asking you: 'But great king, is there any gift in the world that should be set aside, that should not be given when a worthy recipient has arrived?'" "There is no gift in the world, Venerable Nāgasena, that should be set aside. When a worthy recipient has arrived, that should not be given. When confidence in mind has arisen, some give food to worthy recipients, some give clothing, some give lodging, some give dwellings, some give spreads and covers, some give male and female slaves, some give fields and land, some give two-footed and four-footed beings, some give a hundred, a thousand, a hundred thousand, some give great kingdoms, some even give their life." "But if, great king, some even give their life, for what reason do you blame Vessantara, lord of giving, too strongly for giving well his children and wife?

"But great king, is there a natural law of the world, a custom of the world, that a father gets to pledge or sell his child when in debt or deprived of livelihood?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, a father gets to pledge or sell his child when in debt or deprived of livelihood." "If, great king, a father gets to pledge or sell his child when in debt or deprived of livelihood, then King Vessantara too, great king, not gaining omniscient knowledge, afflicted and suffering, for the attainment of that wealth of Teaching, pledged and sold his children and wife. Thus, great king, what was given by King Vessantara was indeed given, what was done was indeed done. But why, great king, do you strongly criticize Vessantara, lord of giving, for that gift?"

"I do not, Venerable Nāgasena, blame the gift of Vessantara, lord of giving, but when they asked for children and wife, he should have offered himself instead." "This, great king, is an improper reason, that when they ask for wife and children one should give oneself; whatever they ask for, that very thing should be given, this is the deed of superior persons. Just as, great king, if some person were to ask for water, and someone would give him food, would that person, great king, be doing what should be done for him?" "No, Venerable Sir, one would be doing what should be done by giving him what he asks for." "Even so, great king, when brahmins asked King Vessantara for wife and children, he gave just wife and children. If, great king, a brahmin were to ask for Vessantara's body, he, great king, would not protect himself, would not tremble, would not be attached, his body would be given and relinquished. If, great king, someone were to approach Vessantara the master of giving and ask 'Become my slave', his body would be given and relinquished, he would not regret after giving. Great king, King Vessantara's body is common to many.

"Just as, great king, a piece of cooked meat is common to many, even so, great king, King Vessantara's body is common to many. Moreover, great king, just as a fruiting tree is common to various flocks of birds, even so, great king, King Vessantara's body is common to many. For what reason? 'Practising thus I will attain perfect enlightenment.'

"Just as, great king, a poor person desiring wealth, wandering in search of wealth, goes by goat paths, stake paths and cane paths, engages in trade by water and land, strives for wealth through body, speech and mind, makes effort for obtaining wealth. Even so, great king, Vessantara the generous donor, though poor in the wealth of enlightenment, having given up wealth, grain, male and female slaves, vehicles and conveyances, all his possessions, his own wife and children and himself to suppliants for the attainment of the jewel of omniscient knowledge, seeks only perfect enlightenment.

Moreover, great king, just as a minister desiring a seal, having given up whatever wealth, grain, gold and silver there is in his house, strives for the attainment of the seal. Even so, great king, Vessantara the generous donor, having given all that external and internal wealth, having given even his life to others, seeks only perfect enlightenment.

"However, great king, Vessantara the generous donor thought thus: 'I would be doing what should be done by giving him what that brahmin asks for', thus he gave him his wife and children. No, great king, Vessantara the generous donor did not give his wife and children to the brahmin out of hatred, he did not give his wife and children from a desire not to see them, he did not give his wife and children thinking 'I have too many wife and children, I cannot support them', he did not give his wife and children from a desire to get rid of them thinking 'they are unloved'. Rather, out of love for the jewel of omniscient knowledge, for the sake of omniscient knowledge, King Vessantara gave to the brahmin such an incomparable, vast, unsurpassed, dear, agreeable, beloved, life-like excellent gift of wife and children.

This was spoken by the Blessed One, the deity above deities, in the Collection of Conduct -

Therefore, great king, King Vessantara having given the gift of his children, entered the leaf hut and lay down. Due to excessive affection, being pained, intense sorrow arose in him, his heart became hot. When his nose was insufficient, he released hot in-breaths and out-breaths through his mouth, his tears turning into drops of blood came out from his eyes. Even so, great king, with suffering King Vessantara gave his children and wife to the brahmin thinking 'Let not my path of giving decline'.

However, great king, King Vessantara gave the two children to the brahmin seeing two benefits. Which two? My path of giving will not decline, and my grandfather will free my suffering children from here with roots and fruits from the forest. For King Vessantara knows: 'No one can use my children as slaves, and grandfather will buy back these children, thus there will be a way for us too.' These, great king, are the two benefits seeing which he gave the two children to the brahmin.

However, great king, King Vessantara knows: 'This brahmin is aged, old, elderly, weak, broken, dependent on a staff, with life exhausted, with little merit, he is not capable of using these children as slaves.' "But could a person, great king, with ordinary strength take these moon and sun, so mighty, so powerful, put them in a box or casket, make them without radiance and use them like a plate?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Even so, great king, in this world the children of Vessantara, who is comparable to the moon and sun, cannot be used by anyone as slaves.

"Great king, hear another further reason for which reason Vessantara's children cannot be used by anyone as slaves. Just as, great king, a wheel-turning monarch's jewel-gem that is beautiful, well-born, eight-faceted, well-prepared, four hands in length, with the circumference of a cart's hub, cannot be used by anyone wrapped in a rag, put in a box, as a whetstone, even so, great king, in the world the children of Vessantara, who is comparable to the wheel-turning monarch's jewel-gem, cannot be used by anyone as slaves.

"Great king, hear another further reason for which reason Vessantara's children cannot be used by anyone as slaves. Just as, great king, the nāga-king Uposatha who is completely white, with seven supports, eight ratanas in height, nine ratanas in circumference, beautiful and lovely to behold, cannot be covered by anyone with a winnowing basket or bowl, or be kept confined in a calf-pen like a calf, even so, great king, in the world the children of Vessantara, who is comparable to the nāga-king Uposatha, cannot be used by anyone as slaves.

"Great king, hear another further reason for which reason Vessantara's children cannot be used by anyone as slaves. Just as, great king, the great ocean which is long, broad, extensive, deep, immeasurable, difficult to cross, unfathomable, uncovered, cannot be used by anyone having covered it everywhere through a single ford, even so, great king, in the world the children of Vessantara, who is comparable to the great ocean, cannot be used by anyone as slaves.

"Great king, hear another further reason for which reason Vessantara's children cannot be used by anyone as slaves. Just as, great king, the Himavanta, king of mountains, five hundred yojanas high in the sky, three thousand yojanas in length and breadth, adorned with eighty-four thousand peaks, source of five hundred great rivers, abode of hosts of great elements, bearer of various kinds of odours, decorated with hundreds of divine medicines, appears high in the sky like a cloud, even so, great king, in the world the children of Vessantara, who is comparable to the Himavanta, king of mountains, cannot be used by anyone as slaves.

"Great king, hear another further reason for which reason Vessantara's children cannot be used by anyone as slaves. Just as, great king, a great mass of blazing fire burning on a mountain peak appears even from very far away in the darkness of night, even so, great king, King Vessantara appears manifest even from very far away like a great mass of blazing fire burning on a mountain peak, his children cannot be used by anyone as slaves.

"Great king, hear another further reason for which reason Vessantara's children cannot be used by anyone as slaves. Just as, great king, in the Himavanta mountain at the time of nāga flowers, when a straight wind blows, the fragrance of flowers blows for ten or twelve yojanas, even so, great king, King Vessantara's fame has risen up even for thousands of yojanas as far as the Akaniṭṭha realm, in between in the abodes of deities, titans, garuḷas, gandhabbas, yakkhas, demons, great serpents, kinnaras and Indra, and his fragrance of excellent virtue wafts forth, therefore his children cannot be used by anyone as slaves. Great king, Prince Jāli was instructed by his father King Vessantara: 'Dear one, when your grandfather buys you back from the brahmin giving wealth, let him buy you back giving a thousand coins, when buying back Kaṇhājina, let him buy her back giving one hundred of everything - one hundred male slaves, one hundred female slaves, one hundred elephants, one hundred horses, one hundred cows, one hundred bulls, one hundred coins. Dear one, if your grandfather takes you from the brahmin's hands by authority, by force, without payment, do not do your grandfather's bidding, be followers of the brahmin only.' Having instructed thus, he sent his children away, then Prince Jāli went and when asked by his grandfather said -

"Well unravelled, Venerable Nāgasena, is the question; the net of views is well broken; other doctrines are well crushed; one's own doctrine is well illuminated; the phrasing is well purified; the meaning is well divided; thus we accept it."

The First Question about Vessantara.

2.

The Question About the Performance of Austerities

2. "Venerable Nāgasena, do all Bodhisattas perform austerities, or was it only by the Bodhisatta Gotama that austerities were performed?" "No, great king, not all Bodhisattas perform austerities, it was only by the Bodhisatta Gotama that austerities were performed."

"Venerable Nāgasena, if that is so, it is not proper that there should be a difference among Bodhisattas." "Great king, there is a difference among Bodhisattas in four states. With which four? Difference in family, difference in striving, difference in life span, and difference in height. Great king, there is a difference among Bodhisattas in these four states. Great king, among all Buddhas there is no difference in form, virtue, concentration, wisdom, liberation, knowledge and vision of liberation, the four grounds of self-confidence, the ten powers of a Truth Finder, the six unsurpassed knowledges, the fourteen knowledges of a Buddha, the eighteen qualities of a Buddha, and all the qualities of a Buddha; all Buddhas are equal in the qualities of a Buddha."

"If, Venerable Nāgasena, all Buddhas are equal in the qualities of a Buddha, for what reason was it only by the Bodhisatta Gotama that austerities were performed?" "Great king, when knowledge was unripe, when enlightenment was unripe, the Bodhisatta Gotama went forth into renunciation, and austerities were performed by him while ripening the unripe knowledge."

"Venerable Nāgasena, for what reason did the Bodhisatta go forth in the Great Renunciation when knowledge was unripe, when enlightenment was unripe? Should he not have gone forth after ripening knowledge, when knowledge was ripe?"

"The Bodhisatta, great king, having seen the women's quarters in disarray, became regretful, in his regret discontent arose, and seeing the arisen mind of discontent, a certain deity of Māra's retinue thinking 'This is the time for dispelling the mind of discontent' stood in the air and spoke these words -

"Friend, do not be anxious, in seven days from now the divine wheel-jewel will appear to you with a thousand spokes, with rim and hub, complete in all aspects, and jewels on earth and in the sky will come to you by themselves, authority will flow with one voice over the four great continents surrounded by two thousand small islands, and you will have more than a thousand sons who are brave, heroic in form, crushing enemy armies, and surrounded by those sons, endowed with the seven jewels, you will rule over the four continents."

"Just as an iron stake heated by the day's sun would enter the ear passage burning everywhere, even so, great king, those words entered the Bodhisatta's ear passage, thus he who was already anxious by nature became even more frightened, agitated and gained a sense of urgency through the words of that deity.

"Moreover, great king, just as a great mass of blazing fire would blaze even more when kindled with another piece of wood, even so, great king, the Bodhisatta who was already anxious by nature became even more frightened, agitated and gained a sense of urgency through the words of that deity.

"Moreover, great king, just as the great earth naturally wet, with grass sprouted, watered and become muddy, would become even muddier when a great rain cloud pours down again, even so, great king, the Bodhisatta who was already anxious by nature became even more frightened, agitated and gained a sense of urgency through the words of that deity."

"But Venerable Nāgasena, if the divine wheel-jewel had appeared to the Bodhisatta on the seventh day, would the Bodhisatta have turned back when the divine wheel-jewel appeared?" "No, great king, the divine wheel-jewel would not have appeared to the Bodhisatta on the seventh day, rather that deity spoke falsely for the purpose of temptation, and even if, great king, the divine wheel-jewel had appeared on the seventh day, the Bodhisatta would not have turned back. What is the reason? Because, great king, the Bodhisatta firmly grasped 'impermanent', firmly grasped 'suffering, not self', he had reached the destruction of clinging.

"Just as, great king, water from Lake Anotatta enters the River Ganges, from the River Ganges enters the great ocean, from the great ocean enters the mouth of the underworld, but great king, would that water, having gone to the mouth of the underworld, turn back and enter the great ocean, from the great ocean enter the River Ganges, from the River Ganges enter Lake Anotatta again?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Even so, great king, the Bodhisatta had developed wholesome qualities for a hundred thousand aeons and four incalculable periods for the sake of this existence, and having reached this final existence with enlightenment knowledge fully matured, he would become the Buddha, omniscient, the foremost person in the world in six years. But great king, would the Bodhisatta turn back for the sake of the wheel-jewel?" "No, Venerable Sir."

"However, great king, the great earth with its forests and mountains would turn over, but the Bodhisatta would never turn back without attaining perfect enlightenment. Even if, great king, the water of the Ganges were to flow upstream, still the Bodhisatta would never turn back without attaining perfect enlightenment; Even if, great king, the great ocean with its immeasurable water were to dry up like water in a cow's footprint, still the Bodhisatta would never turn back without attaining perfect enlightenment; Even if, great king, Mount Sineru, the king of mountains, were to split into a hundred or a thousand pieces, still the Bodhisatta would never turn back without attaining perfect enlightenment; Even if, great king, the sun and moon with the stars were to fall to the ground like clods of earth, still the Bodhisatta would never turn back without attaining perfect enlightenment; Even if, great king, space were to roll up like a mat, still the Bodhisatta would never turn back without attaining perfect enlightenment. For what reason? Because all bonds have been broken through."

"Venerable Nāgasena, how many bonds are there in the world?" "Great king, there are these ten bonds in the world, bound by which beings do not depart, and even having departed, they return. What are the ten? Mother, great king, is a bond in the world; father, great king, is a bond in the world; wife, great king, is a bond in the world; children, great king, are a bond in the world; relatives, great king, are a bond in the world; friend, great king, is a bond in the world; wealth, great king, is a bond in the world; gain and honour, great king, are a bond in the world; authority, great king, is a bond in the world; the five cords of sensual pleasure, great king, are a bond in the world. These, great king, are the ten bonds in the world, bound by which beings do not depart, and even having departed, they return. Those ten bonds were cut and broken by the Bodhisatta. Therefore, great king, the Bodhisatta does not return."

"Venerable Nāgasena, if the Bodhisatta went forth into renunciation when discontent arose, on the word of a deity, when knowledge was unripe, when enlightenment was unripe, what was the use of his performance of austerities? Should he not have waited for the ripening of knowledge while eating everything?"

"These ten individuals, great king, are despised, disregarded, scorned, mocked, blamed, treated with contempt, disrespected in the world. What are the ten? A widow, great king, is despised, disregarded, scorned, mocked, blamed, treated with contempt, disrespected in the world. A weak individual, great king... etc... An individual without friends and relatives, great king... etc... A gluttonous individual, great king... etc... An individual living in a disrespected family, great king... etc... An individual with evil friends, great king... etc... An individual lacking wealth, great king... etc... An individual lacking in conduct, great king... etc... An individual lacking in action, great king... etc... An individual lacking in effort, great king, is despised, disregarded, scorned, mocked, blamed, treated with contempt, disrespected in the world. These ten individuals, great king, are despised, disregarded, scorned, mocked, blamed, treated with contempt, disrespected in the world. Recollecting these ten states, great king, this perception arose in the Bodhisatta: 'May I not be one lacking in action, lacking in effort, blamed by deities and humans. What if I were to be one who acts, who respects action, who gives priority to action, who has action as his habit, who has action as his vehicle, who has action as his resort, and would dwell diligently?' Thus, great king, the Bodhisatta, maturing his knowledge, performed austerities."

"Venerable Nāgasena, when performing austerities, the Bodhisatta said thus: 'But by this severe performance of austerities I have not attained any superhuman state, any distinction in knowledge and vision worthy of the noble ones. Could there be another path to enlightenment?' "Was there on that occasion forgetfulness in the future Buddha regarding the path?"

"Great king, there are these twenty-five things that weaken the mind, weakened by which the mind does not become rightly concentrated for the destruction of the taints. What are the twenty-five? Anger, great king, is a thing that weakens the mind, weakened by which the mind does not become rightly concentrated for the destruction of the taints, resentment...etc... contempt...etc... insolence...etc... envy...etc... selfishness...etc... deceitfulness...etc... fraud...etc... obstinacy...etc... rivalry...etc... conceit...etc... arrogance...etc... vanity...etc... negligence...etc... sloth and torpor...etc... laziness...etc... idleness...etc... evil friendship...etc... forms...etc... sounds...etc... odours...etc... tastes...etc... tactile objects...etc... hunger and thirst...etc... discontent, great king, is a thing that weakens the mind, weakened by which the mind does not become rightly concentrated for the destruction of the taints. These, great king, are the twenty-five things that weaken the mind, weakened by which the mind does not become rightly concentrated for the destruction of the taints.

Great king, hunger and thirst exhausted the bodhisatta's body, and when the body was exhausted, the mind did not become rightly concentrated for the destruction of the taints. For a hundred thousand aeons and four incalculable periods, great king, the Bodhisatta sought the breakthrough to just the four noble truths in those various births. How then could there be forgetfulness regarding the path in his last birth, the birth of breakthrough? However, great king, just a perception arose in the Bodhisatta: 'Could there be another path to enlightenment?' Formerly, great king, when the Bodhisatta was one month old, while his father the Sakyan was working, he sat cross-legged on a royal couch in the cool shade of a rose-apple tree, and quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unwholesome states, entered and dwelt in the first meditative absorption, which is accompanied by thought and examination, with rapture and happiness born of seclusion... entered and dwelt in the fourth meditative absorption. "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it, the Bodhisatta performed austerities while maturing his knowledge."

The Question about the Performance of Austerities, the second.

3.

The Question About Whether Wholesome or Unwholesome is Stronger

3. "Venerable Nāgasena, which is more powerful, wholesome or unwholesome?" "Wholesome, great king, is more powerful, not so unwholesome." "I do not accept that statement, Venerable Nāgasena, 'wholesome is more powerful, not so unwholesome'. Venerable Nāgasena, here are seen those who destroy life, those who take what is not given, those who engage in sexual misconduct, those who speak falsely, village plunderers, highway robbers, deceivers, fraudsters - they all, through just such evil, receive cutting off of hands, cutting off of feet, cutting off of hands and feet, cutting off of ears, cutting off of nose, cutting off of ears and nose, the pot of gruel, the polished-shell tonsure, Rāhu's mouth, the fiery garland, the hand torch, the bark dress, the antelope dress, the fish-hook meat, the coin, the lye pickling, the pivot on a bolt, the straw seat, pouring over with hot oil, being devoured by dogs, impaling alive, beheading with a sword. Some having done evil at night experience the result that very night, some having done it at night experience it during the day, some having done it during the day experience it that very day, some having done it during the day experience it at night, some experience it after two or three days have passed, all of them experience the result in this very life. But is there anyone, Venerable Nāgasena, who having given a gift with retinue to one or two or three or four or five or ten or a hundred or a thousand or a hundred thousand, has experienced gain or fame or happiness in this very life through virtue or observance of the uposatha?"

"There are, great king, four persons who having given gifts, having undertaken virtuous behavior, having performed the uposatha observance, in this very life, with that very physical body, have reached the realm of the thirty-three deities." "Who and who, Venerable Sir?" "King Mandhātā, King Nimi, King Sādhīna, and Guttila the deity."

"Venerable Nāgasena, that is separated by many thousands of existences, both are beyond our perception. If you are able, speak of the time when the Blessed One was living in the present existence." "In the present existence too, great king, Puṇṇaka the slave, having given food to the Elder Sāriputta, attained the position of a merchant on that very day, and he became known as Puṇṇaka the merchant. The queen Gopālamātā, having sold her hair and with the eight coins received, gave almsfood to Elder Mahākaccāyana along with seven others, and on that very day attained the position of chief queen of King Candapajjota. The female lay follower Suppiyā, having given the flesh of her own thigh as curry to a sick monk, on the very next day her wound healed, her skin was restored, and she became healthy. Queen Mallikā, having given to the Blessed One a ball of stale porridge, on that very day became the chief queen of King Kosala. Sumana the garland-maker, having honoured the Blessed One with eight handfuls of jasmine flowers, on that very day attained great success. The one-clothed brahmin, having honoured the Blessed One with his upper garment, on that very day obtained everything eightfold. All these people, great king, experienced gain and fame pertaining to the present life."

"Venerable Nāgasena, having searched and investigated, did you see only six people?" "Yes, great king." "Then, Venerable Nāgasena, unwholesome itself is more powerful, not so wholesome. For I, Venerable Nāgasena, in just one day see ten people being impaled on stakes as a result of evil action, I see twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, a hundred, a thousand people being impaled on stakes as a result of evil action. Venerable Nāgasena, Nandakula had a general's son named Bhaddhasāla. And there was a battle arrayed with King Candagutta. In that battle, Venerable Nāgasena, there were eighty headless bodies in both armies, it is said that when one headless body fell another headless body arose, all these met with calamity and disaster as a result of evil action. For this reason too, Venerable Nāgasena, I say unwholesome itself is more powerful, not so wholesome."

"Is it heard, Venerable Nāgasena, that King Kosala gave the incomparable gift in this Dispensation of the Buddha?" "Yes, great king, it is heard." "But Venerable Nāgasena, did the king of Kosala, having given that incomparable gift, obtain on that account any gain or fame or happiness in this very life?" "No, great king." "If, Venerable Nāgasena, the king of Kosala having given such an unsurpassed gift did not obtain on that account any gain or fame or happiness in this very life, then, Venerable Nāgasena, unwholesome itself is more powerful, not so wholesome."

"Because of its smallness, great king, unwholesome ripens quickly; because of its vastness, wholesome ripens after a long time. This, great king, should be examined by a simile too. "Just as, great king, in the western country there is a kind of grain called kumudabhaṇḍikā which ripens in a month and is brought into the house, while rice grains ripen in five or six months. What, great king, is the difference, what is the distinction between kumudabhaṇḍikā and rice grains?" "Because of its smallness, Venerable Sir, of kumudabhaṇḍikā, and because of the vastness of rice grains. Rice grains, Venerable Nāgasena, are fit for kings, food for kings, kumudabhaṇḍikā is food for slaves and workers." "Even so, great king, because of its smallness unwholesome ripens quickly, because of its vastness wholesome ripens after a long time."

"That which ripens quickly there, Venerable Nāgasena, is known in the world as more powerful, therefore unwholesome is more powerful, not so wholesome. Just as, Venerable Nāgasena, any warrior who, having entered a great battle, would seize the enemy by the armpit, drag him and quickly bring him to his master, that warrior is known in the world as capable and heroic. And a surgeon who quickly extracts an arrow and removes disease, that surgeon is known as skilled. And an accountant who calculates very quickly and shows the result quickly, that accountant is known as skilled. And a wrestler who quickly lifts up his opponent and makes him fall on his back, that wrestler is known as capable and heroic. Even so, Venerable Nāgasena, whatever wholesome or unwholesome action matures quickly, that is more powerful in the world."

"Both these actions, great king, are to be experienced in the next life, however unwholesome action due to its blameworthiness becomes experienced in this very life, great king, this rule was established by kings of old: 'One who takes life is liable to punishment...etc... who takes what is not given...etc... who goes to another's wife...etc... who speaks falsely...etc... who kills in a village...etc... who defiles the path...etc... who deceives...etc... who practises fraud, he deserves punishment, should be executed, cut up, broken, killed.' Having examined and examined them with reference to that, they punish, execute, cut up, break and kill them. But great king, is there any fixed rule established by anyone 'Who gives a gift, or keeps virtue, or performs the uposatha observance, to him wealth or fame should be given'; do they examine and examine and give wealth or fame, like punishment and imprisonment for a thief's deed?" "No, Venerable Sir." "If, great king, they were to examine and examine donors and give wealth or fame, wholesome action would also be experienced in this very life, but because, great king, they do not examine donors thinking 'We will give wealth or fame', therefore wholesome action is not experienced in this very life. For this reason, great king, unwholesome action is experienced in this very life, and he experiences extremely stronger feeling only in the future." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, without one wise like you this question would not be well unravelled, Venerable Nāgasena, the worldly has been explained by the supramundane."

The Question about Whether Wholesome or Unwholesome is Stronger is Third.

4.

Question About Dedicating to Past Ghosts and Others

4. "Venerable Nāgasena, these givers having given a gift dedicate it to past ghosts saying 'may this reach them', do they receive any result on that account?" "Some, great king, receive it, some do not receive it." "Who, Venerable Sir, receive it, who do not receive it?" "Those reborn in hell, great king, do not receive it, those gone to heaven do not receive it, those gone to the animal realm do not receive it, three out of four ghosts do not receive it - those who eat vomit, those afflicted by hunger and thirst, those consumed by craving; ghosts who live on what is given by others receive it, and they receive it only when they remember."

"Then, Venerable Nāgasena, the giving of the givers is dried up and fruitless, if those for whom it was done do not receive it." "No, great king, that gift is not fruitless, not without result, the donors themselves experience its fruit." "Then, Venerable Nāgasena, convince me with a reason." "Here, great king, some people prepare fish, meat, liquor, rice and snacks and go to their relatives' family. If those relatives do not accept that gift, would that gift dry up or be destroyed?" "No, Venerable Sir, it belongs to the owners themselves." "Even so, great king, the donors themselves experience its fruit. Moreover, great king, if a person has entered a womb, when there is no opening to come out in front, by what would he come out?" "By what was entered, Venerable Sir." "Even so, great king, the donors themselves experience its fruit." "Let it be so, Venerable Nāgasena, thus I accept it, the donors themselves experience its fruit, we do not oppose that reason.

"Venerable Nāgasena, if the gift given by these donors reaches the departed relatives of the past, and they experience its result. "Then if one who destroys life, is cruel, bloody-handed, with corrupted intentions, having killed human beings and done a terrible action, were to dedicate it to past ghosts saying 'may the result of this action of mine reach the past ghosts', would the result reach the past ghosts?" "No, great king."

"Venerable Nāgasena, what is the cause, what is the reason, why wholesome reaches them but unwholesome does not reach them?" "That question, great king, should not be asked, and you, great king, should not ask what should not be asked thinking 'there is one who can answer'. You will also ask me 'Why is space unsupported, why does the Ganges not flow upwards, why are these human beings and birds two-footed and beasts four-footed?'" "I do not ask you, Venerable Nāgasena, with the intention of harming, but I ask for the removal of doubt. Many people in the world go the wrong way, are blind - 'How might they not find a weak point?' Thus I ask you." "It is not possible, great king, to share an evil action with one who has not done it and has not approved of it.

"Just as, great king, people carry water even very far by means of a water channel, but great king, is it possible to carry a dense great rocky mountain as one wishes by means of a channel?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Even so, great king, it is possible to share wholesome action, it is not possible to share unwholesome action. Moreover, great king, just as it is possible to light a lamp with oil, but great king, is it possible to light a lamp with water?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Even so, great king, it is possible to share wholesome action, it is not possible to share unwholesome action. Moreover, great king, farmers drawing water from a lake ripen grain, but great king, is it possible to draw water from the great ocean and ripen grain?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Even so, great king, it is possible to share wholesome action, it is not possible to share unwholesome action."

"Venerable Nāgasena, for what reason is it possible to share wholesome action, it is not possible to share unwholesome action. "Convince me with a reason, I am not blind or without light that I shall know by just hearing." "Great king, the unwholesome is little, the wholesome is much. Due to its littleness, the unwholesome exhausts only the doer; due to its muchness, the wholesome overwhelms the world including the deities." "Make a simile."

"Just as, great king, if a single small drop of water were to fall on the earth, would that drop of water, great king, overwhelm ten or twelve yojanas?" "No, Venerable Sir, where that drop of water falls, it is exhausted right there." "For what reason, great king?" "Because of the smallness, Venerable Sir, of the drop of water." Even so, great king, little unwholesome action because of its smallness exhausts only the doer, it cannot be shared.

"Moreover, great king, if a great rain cloud were to rain down satisfying the surface of the earth, would that great rain cloud, great king, overwhelm everywhere?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, that great rain cloud having filled up would overwhelm for ten or twelve yojanas the pools, lakes, rivers, branches, ravines, crevices, ponds, wells and lotus ponds." "For what reason, great king?" "Because of the greatness of the rain cloud, Venerable Sir." "Even so, great king, wholesome action is much, because of being much it can be shared even with deities and human beings."

"Venerable Nāgasena, for what reason is unwholesome action little and wholesome action much more?" "Here, great king, when anyone gives a gift, undertakes virtuous behavior, performs the uposatha observance, he becomes glad, elated, joyful, delighted, with a confident mind and inspired; rapture arises in him again and again, and for one with rapture the wholesome increases more and more.

"Just as, great king, in a well full of abundant water, water would enter through one side and exit through another, and while exiting it arises again and again, it cannot be brought to destruction. Even so, great king, wholesome action increases more and more. Even if, great king, a person were to reflect on wholesome action done for a hundred years, upon reflecting again and again wholesome action increases more and more. That wholesome action can be shared with whomever one wishes. This, great king, is the reason for which reason wholesome action is greater.

"But when doing unwholesome action, great king, one later has regret, and for one with regret the mind shrinks back, recoils, turns away, does not stretch forth, grieves, burns, diminishes, wastes away, does not increase, and is exhausted right there. Just as, great king, when a little water comes from above onto a great sandbank in a dry river that is uneven and winding, it diminishes, wastes away, does not increase and is exhausted right there. Even so, great king, when doing unwholesome action, the mind shrinks back, recoils, turns away, does not stretch forth, grieves, burns, diminishes, wastes away, does not increase and is exhausted right there. This, great king, is the reason for which reason unwholesome action is little. "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

Fourth Question about Dedicating to Past Ghosts and Others.

5.

The Question About Dreams

5. "Venerable Nāgasena, in this world men and women see dreams both good and evil, things seen before and things not seen before, things done before and things not done before, things secure and things with fear, things far and things near, and many thousands of various kinds are seen. What is this called a dream, and who sees it?" "Great king, this called a dream is a sign which comes into the range of the mind. Great king, these six see dreams: one with a wind disorder sees dreams, one with a bile disorder sees dreams, one with a phlegm disorder sees dreams, one sees dreams due to the influence of a deity, one sees dreams due to regular practice, one sees dreams due to a precursor. Among these, great king, what one sees as a dream due to a precursor, that alone is true, the rest are wrong."

"Venerable Nāgasena, when one sees a dream due to a precursor, does his mind go by itself and search for that sign, or does that sign come into the range of the mind, or does someone else come and tell him?" "No, great king, his mind does not go by itself and search for that sign, nor does anyone else come and tell him, rather that sign itself comes into the range of the mind. Just as, great king, a mirror does not go anywhere by itself and search for a reflection, nor does anyone else bring a reflection and put it on the mirror, rather a reflection comes from wherever and comes into the range of the mirror, even so, great king, his mind does not go by itself and search for that sign, nor does anyone else come and tell him, rather a sign comes from wherever and comes into the range of the mind."

"Venerable Nāgasena, when that mind sees a dream, does that mind know 'such will be the result, either security or fear'?" "No, great king, that mind does not know 'such will be the result, either security or fear', but when a sign appears it tells others, and then they explain the meaning."

"Come now, Venerable Nāgasena, show me the reason." "Just as, great king, spots, boils and rashes arise on the body for gain or loss, for fame or disgrace, for blame or praise, for pleasure or pain, do those boils, great king, arise knowing 'We will accomplish this purpose'?" "No, Venerable Sir, when boils arise in whatever place, seers of omens having seen those boils declare 'Such will be the result'." "Even so, great king, when that mind sees a dream, that mind does not know 'Such will be the result, either security or fear', but when a sign appears it tells others, and then they explain the meaning."

"Venerable Nāgasena, when one sees a dream, does he see it while sleeping or while awake?" "Whoever, great king, sees a dream, sees it neither while sleeping nor while awake. However, when torpor has descended but the life-continuum has not been reached, in between one sees a dream. Great king, for one overcome by torpor, the mind has gone to the life-continuum, the mind gone to the life-continuum does not occur, the non-occurring mind does not understand pleasure and pain, for one not understanding there is no dream, when the mind is occurring one sees a dream.

"Just as, great king, in darkness and gloom with little light a reflection is not seen even in a very clean mirror, even so, great king, when the mind is overcome by torpor and gone to the life-continuum, though the body remains, the mind does not occur, when the mind does not occur one does not see a dream. Just as, great king, a mirror, so should the body be seen; just as darkness, so should torpor be seen; just as light, so should the mind be seen.

"Moreover, great king, just as when the sun is covered by mist, its radiance is not seen, though the sun's rays exist they do not occur, when the sun's rays do not occur there is no light, even so, great king, for one overcome by torpor, the mind has gone to the life-continuum, the mind gone to the life-continuum does not occur, when the mind does not occur one does not see a dream. Just as, great king, the sun, so should the body be seen; just as the covering of mist, so should torpor be seen; just as the sun's rays, so should the mind be seen.

"For two people, great king, though there is a body, the mind does not occur: for one overcome by torpor who has gone to the life-continuum, though there is a body, the mind does not occur; for one attained to cessation, though there is a body, the mind does not occur. For one who is awake, great king, the mind is fickle, open, manifest, unrestrained - to such a mind a sign does not come into range. Just as, great king, those desiring secrecy avoid a person who is open, manifest, inactive, without secrets, even so, great king, divine meaning does not come into range for one who is awake, therefore one who is awake does not see a dream. Moreover, great king, just as wholesome states that are aids to enlightenment do not come into range of a monk who has broken his livelihood, who is of bad conduct, who has evil friends, who is immoral, lazy and of little energy, even so, great king, divine meaning does not come into range for one who is awake, therefore one who is awake does not see a dream."

"Venerable Nāgasena, does torpor have a beginning, middle and end?" "Yes, great king, torpor has a beginning, middle and end." "What is the beginning, what is the middle, what is the end?" "That which is wrapping up and completely wrapping up of the body, weakness, dullness, unwieldiness of body, great king, this is the beginning of torpor; when one overcome by monkey-sleep wakes intermittently, great king, this is the middle of torpor; going to the life-continuum is the end. One who has reached the middle, great king, overcome by monkey-sleep sees a dream. Just as, great king, someone who is restrained, concentrated, steady in nature, with unshaken understanding, having entered a forest free from noisy disturbance, reflects on a subtle matter, and he does not fall into torpor there, concentrated there with one-pointed mind he penetrates the subtle matter, even so, great king, one who is awake, not fallen into torpor, having reached the middle, overcome by monkey-sleep sees a dream. Just as, great king, noisy disturbance, so should wakefulness be seen; just as the secluded forest, so should one overcome by monkey-sleep be seen; just as he abandoning noisy disturbance, avoiding torpor, being neutral penetrates the subtle matter, so one who is awake, not fallen into torpor, overcome by monkey-sleep sees a dream." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Fifth Question, about Dreams.

6.

The Question About Untimely Death

6. "Venerable Nāgasena, do all those beings who die, die only at their proper time, or do they also die at an improper time?" "There is, great king, death at the proper time, and there is also death at an improper time."

"Venerable Nāgasena, who dies at the proper time, who dies at an improper time?" "Have you seen before, great king, mangoes or jambu fruits, or fruits from other fruit trees, falling both unripe and ripe?" "Yes, Venerable Sir." "Those fruits, great king, that fall from the tree, do they all fall only at their proper time, or also at an improper time?" "Those fruits, Venerable Nāgasena, that fall when fully ripened and softened, all those fall at their proper time. But of the remaining fruits, some fall pierced by worms, some fall struck by sticks, some fall struck by wind, some fall having become rotten inside, all these fall at an improper time." "Even so, great king, those who die struck by the force of old age, only they die at their proper time, of the rest some die obstructed by action, some die obstructed by destination, some die obstructed by function."

"Venerable Nāgasena, those who die obstructed by action, those who die obstructed by destination, those who die obstructed by function, those who die obstructed by the force of old age, all of them die at their proper time, even one who dies in the mother's womb, that is his time, he dies at his proper time. Even one who dies in the birth chamber, that is his time, he dies at his proper time. Even one who dies at one month...etc... even one who dies at a hundred years, that is his time, he dies at his proper time. Then, Venerable Nāgasena, there is no such thing as death at an improper time, whoever dies, all of them die at their proper time."

"Great king, there are these seven who die at an improper time even when there is further life span remaining. Which seven? Great king, one who is hungry, not obtaining food, with damaged innards, dies at an improper time even when there is further life span remaining; great king, one who is thirsty, not obtaining water, with a dried up heart, dies at an improper time even when there is further life span remaining; great king, one bitten by a snake, overcome by the force of poison, not obtaining a healer, dies at an improper time even when there is further life span remaining; great king, one who has taken poison, with limbs and organs burning, not obtaining medicine, dies at an improper time even when there is further life span remaining; great king, one who has fallen into fire, burning, not obtaining extinguishing, dies at an improper time even when there is further life span remaining; great king, one who has fallen into water, not obtaining support, dies at an improper time even when there is further life span remaining; great king, one struck by a weapon, afflicted, not obtaining a physician, dies at an improper time even when there is further life span remaining. These, great king, are the seven who die at an improper time even when there is further life span remaining. Therein, great king, I declare with certainty.

"Great king, beings' death occurs in eight ways: through wind-originated illness, through bile-originated illness, through phlegm-originated illness, through their combination, through change of season, through careless behaviour, through external agency, through the result of action, great king, beings' death occurs. Therein, great king, that which is death due to the result of action, that is timely death there, the rest is untimely death. And there is -

"Some beings, great king, die due to this or that unwholesome result of action done previously. Here, great king, one who previously killed others through hunger, for many hundreds of thousands of years tormented by hunger, famished, exhausted, with a dried up and withered heart, hungry, parched, burning, being consumed within, dies of hunger itself whether young, middle-aged or old; this too is his periodic death.

One who previously killed others through thirst, for many hundreds of thousands of years having become a ghost consumed by thirst, being emaciated, thin, with a dried up heart, dies of thirst itself whether young, middle-aged or old; this too is his periodic death.

One who previously killed others having them bitten by snakes, for many hundreds of thousands of years turning from python's mouth to python's mouth, from cobra's mouth to cobra's mouth, being eaten by them, bitten by snakes, dies whether young, middle-aged or old; this too is his periodic death.

One who previously killed others by giving poison, for many hundreds of thousands of years with burning limbs and body breaking up, emitting the odour of a corpse, dies by poison itself whether young, middle-aged or old; this too is his periodic death.

One who previously killed others by fire, for many hundreds of thousands of years turning from mountain of embers to mountain of embers, from Yama's domain to Yama's domain, with body burnt and scorched, dies by fire itself whether young, middle-aged or old; this too is his periodic death.

One who previously killed others by water, for many hundreds of thousands of years with body destroyed, plundered, broken and weak, with agitated mind, dies by water itself whether young, middle-aged or old; this too is his periodic death.

One who previously killed others by sword, for many hundreds of thousands of years cut up, broken, chopped and hacked to pieces, struck by sword blades, dies by sword itself whether young, middle-aged or old; this too is his periodic death.

"Venerable Nāgasena, when one says there is death at an improper time, come now, point out to me the reason there." "Just as, great king, when a great mass of fire, having burnt up grass, sticks, branches and leaves, is extinguished through exhaustion of fuel, that fire is called 'extinguished at its proper time without calamity, without misfortune', even so, great king, when someone having lived for many thousands of days dies worn out by old age through exhaustion of life span without calamity, without misfortune, he is called 'one who has met death at his proper time'.

"Moreover, great king, if there were a great mass of fire burning up grass, sticks, branches and leaves, and while the grass, sticks, branches and leaves were not yet exhausted, a great rain cloud were to pour down and extinguish it, would that great mass of fire, great king, be called extinguished at its proper time?" "No, Venerable Sir." "But why, great king, was that last mass of fire not equal in state to the earlier mass of fire?" "That mass of fire, Venerable Sir, oppressed by the external rain cloud, was extinguished at the wrong time." Even so, great king, whoever dies at the wrong time, dies oppressed by an external disease - whether arising from wind, or arising from bile, or arising from phlegm, or from their combination, or born of change of season, or born of careless behaviour, or from external causes, or from hunger, or from thirst, or from snake bite, or from eating poison, or from fire, or from water, or oppressed by the force of a weapon - dies at the wrong time. This, great king, is the reason for which reason there is death at the wrong time.

"Moreover, great king, when a very great rain cloud arises in the sky and rains down filling both low and high ground, it is called 'the rain cloud rains without calamity, without misfortune'. Even so, great king, whoever having lived long dies worn out by old age through exhaustion of life span without calamity, without misfortune, he is called 'one who has met death at his proper time'.

"Moreover, great king, if a very great rain cloud having arisen in the sky were to be dispersed midway by a great wind, would that great rain cloud, great king, be called gone at its proper time?" "No, Venerable Sir." "But why, great king, was that last cloud not equal in state to the earlier cloud?" "Being oppressed by an external wind, Venerable Sir, that cloud disappeared before its proper time." "Even so, great king, whoever dies at the wrong time, dies oppressed by an external disease - whether arising from wind...etc... or oppressed by the force of a weapon - dies at the wrong time. This, great king, is the reason for which reason there is death at the wrong time.

"Moreover, great king, if a powerful angry snake were to bite some person, and its poison would bring death without calamity, without misfortune, that poison is called 'gone to its end without calamity, without misfortune'. Even so, great king, whoever having lived long dies worn out by old age through exhaustion of life span without calamity, without misfortune, he is called 'one who has gone to the end of life without calamity, without misfortune, who has met death at its proper time'.

"Moreover, great king, if a snake charmer were to give medicine midway and make non-venomous one who has been bitten by a powerful snake, would that venom, great king, be called gone at its proper time?" "No, Venerable Sir." "But why, great king, was not that latter poison equal in course to the former poison?" "Venerable Sir, the poison oppressed by the external medicine disappeared without reaching its end." "Even so, great king, whoever dies at the wrong time, dies oppressed by an external disease - whether arising from wind...etc... or oppressed by the force of a weapon - dies at the wrong time. This, great king, is the reason for which reason there is death at the wrong time.

"Moreover, great king, if an archer were to shoot an arrow, if that arrow goes to the end of its natural path of travel, that arrow is called 'gone without calamity, without misfortune to the end of its natural path of travel'. Even so, great king, whoever having lived long dies worn out by old age through exhaustion of life span without calamity, without misfortune, he is called 'one who has met death at its proper time without calamity, without misfortune'.

"Moreover, great king, if an archer were to shoot an arrow, and someone were to catch that arrow in that very moment, would that arrow, great king, be called 'gone to the end of its natural path of travel'?" "No, Venerable Sir." "But why, great king, was that last arrow not equal in state to the earlier arrow?" "Venerable Sir, through external seizure that arrow's motion was cut off." "Even so, great king, whoever dies at the wrong time, dies oppressed by an external disease - whether arising from wind...etc... or oppressed by the force of a weapon - dies at the wrong time. This, great king, is the reason for which reason there is death at the wrong time.

"Moreover, great king, if someone were to strike a metal vessel, and through that striking a sound having arisen would go to the end of its natural path of travel, that sound is called 'gone without calamity, without misfortune to the end of its natural path of travel'. Even so, great king, whoever having lived for many thousands of days dies worn out by old age through exhaustion of life span without calamity, without misfortune, he is called 'one who has met death at its proper time without calamity, without misfortune'.

"Moreover, great king, if someone were to strike a metal vessel, and through that striking a sound would arise, and when the sound has arisen but not gone far someone were to touch it, and with the touching the sound would cease, would that sound, great king, be called 'gone to the end of its natural path of travel'?" "No, Venerable Sir." "But why, great king, was that last sound not equal in state to the earlier sound?" "Venerable Sir, that sound ceased through external touching." "Even so, great king, whoever dies at the wrong time, dies oppressed by an external disease - whether arising from wind...etc... or oppressed by the force of a weapon - dies at the wrong time. This, great king, is the reason for which reason there is death at the wrong time.

"Moreover, great king, when grain seed well sprouted in a field, with rain proceeding properly, having become spread out, extended and abundant in fruit, reaches the time of harvest, that grain is called 'having reached its time without calamity, without misfortune'. Even so, great king, whoever having lived for many thousands of days dies worn out by old age through exhaustion of life span without calamity, without misfortune, he is called 'one who has met death at his proper time without calamity, without misfortune'.

"Moreover, great king, if grain seed well sprouted in a field were to die lacking water, would that grain, great king, be called 'having reached its time improperly'?" "No, Venerable Sir." "But why, great king, was not that latter grain equal in course to the former grain?" "That grain died, Venerable Sir, oppressed by external heat." "Even so, great king, whoever dies at the wrong time, dies oppressed by an external disease - whether arising from wind...etc... or oppressed by the force of a weapon - dies at the wrong time. This, great king, is the reason for which reason there is death at the wrong time.

"Have you heard before, great king, that 'worms arise in ripe young crops and destroy them from the root'?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, we have both heard of it and seen it." "But great king, was that crop destroyed at its proper time, or was it destroyed at the wrong time?" "At the wrong time, Venerable Sir. If, Venerable Sir, the worms had not eaten that crop, it would have reached the time for harvesting." "But great king, does the crop perish through external destruction, and does an undestroyed crop reach the time for harvesting?" "Yes, Venerable Sir." "Even so, great king, whoever dies at the wrong time, dies oppressed by an external disease - whether arising from wind...etc... or oppressed by the force of a weapon. This, great king, is the reason for which reason there is death at the wrong time.

"Have you heard before, great king, that 'when crops are ripe, bent with the weight of fruit, having reached the time for harvesting, a type of rain called hail falls and destroys them, making them fruitless'?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, we have both heard of it and seen it." "But great king, was that crop destroyed at its proper time, or was it destroyed at the wrong time?" "At the wrong time, Venerable Sir. If, Venerable Sir, the hail had not fallen on that crop, it would have reached the time for harvesting." "But great king, does the crop perish through external destruction, and does an undestroyed crop reach the time for harvesting?" "Yes, Venerable Sir." Even so, great king, whoever dies at the wrong time, dies oppressed by an external disease - whether arising from wind, or arising from bile, or arising from phlegm, or from their combination, or born of change of season, or born of careless behaviour, or from external causes, or from hunger, or from thirst, or from snake bite, or from eating poison, or from fire, or from water, or oppressed by the force of a weapon - dies at the wrong time. But if one were not oppressed by an external disease, one would reach death at its proper time. This, great king, is the reason for which reason there is death at the wrong time."

"Wonderful, Venerable Sir Nāgasena, marvellous, Venerable Sir Nāgasena, well shown is the reason, well shown is the simile for illustrating death at the wrong time. It has been made clear, manifest, evident that 'there is death at the wrong time'. Even a person with distracted mind, Venerable Sir Nāgasena, would come to the conclusion through even one simile that 'there is death at the wrong time', what then of a person with consciousness? "Venerable Sir, I was convinced by the first simile itself that 'there is death at the wrong time', however, wishing to hear further explanations, I did not agree."

The Question about Untimely Death is sixth.

7.

The Question About Wonders at Shrines

7. "Venerable Nāgasena, do wonders occur at the shrines of all who have attained final Nibbāna, or only at some?" "Great king, they occur for some, and for some they do not." "For which ones, Venerable Sir, do they occur, and for which ones do they not?" "Great king, wonders occur at the shrine of one who has attained final Nibbāna through the decision of one of three. Of which three? Here, great king, an arahant, out of compassion for deities and human beings, while still living, decides 'Let there be such and such a wonder at the shrine', through the power of his decision a wonder occurs at the shrine, thus through the power of an arahant's decision a wonder occurs at the shrine of one who has attained final Nibbāna.

"Furthermore, great king, deities out of compassion for human beings display wonders at the shrine of one who has attained final Nibbāna thinking 'Through this wonder the true Teaching will be constantly upheld, and humans being pleased will increase in wholesomeness', thus through the power of deities' decision a wonder occurs at the shrine of one who has attained final Nibbāna.

"Furthermore, great king, a woman or a person with faith, pleased, wise, intelligent, sagacious, endowed with wisdom, having reflected carefully, having decided upon an odour or a garland or a cloth or some other thing, raises it at a shrine thinking 'Let it be thus', through the power of their decision too a wonder occurs at the shrine of one who has attained final Nibbāna, thus through the power of human beings' decision a wonder occurs at the shrine of one who has attained final Nibbāna.

"Great king, through the power of the decision of one of these three a wonder occurs at the shrine of one who has attained final Nibbāna.

"If, great king, there is no standpoint for them, there is no wonder at a shrine even for one with taints destroyed, with six direct knowledges, who has attained mastery of mind. Even without a wonder, great king, having seen their conduct, one should have complete confidence, come to a conclusion, and believe 'this son of the Buddha is well quenched'." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Question about Wonders at Shrines is seventh.

8.

The Question About Breakthrough to the Teaching

8. "Venerable Nāgasena, do all those who practise rightly have a breakthrough to the Teaching, or do some not have it?" "Great king, some have it, some do not have it." "Venerable Sir, who has it, who does not have it?" "Great king, even one practising well who is born as an animal does not have a breakthrough to the Teaching, one born in the domain of ghosts...etc... one of wrong view...etc... a deceitful person...etc... a matricide...etc... a patricide...etc... a killer of an Arahant...etc... one who causes schism in the Community...etc... one who sheds the blood of a Buddha...etc... one who falsely claims to be a monk...etc... one who has gone over to another sect...etc... one who has violated a nun...etc... one who has committed any of the thirteen serious offences and has not made amends...etc... a eunuch...etc... a hermaphrodite even practising well does not have a breakthrough to the Teaching...etc... also a young human being under seven years, even practising well does not have a breakthrough to the Teaching. Great king, these sixteen individuals even practising well do not have a breakthrough to the Teaching."

"Venerable Nāgasena, those fifteen individuals are indeed obstructed, whether they have a breakthrough to the Teaching or not, but for what reason does a young human being under seven years not have a breakthrough to the Teaching even when practising well? Here first there arises a question: "Indeed, a young one has no lust, has no hatred, has no delusion, has no conceit, has no wrong view, has no discontent, has no thought of sensual pleasure, is unmixed with defilements. That young one is indeed ready, fit and worthy to penetrate the four noble truths in one penetration."

"That itself, great king, is the reason for which reason I say 'Even one practising well who is under seven years does not have a breakthrough to the Teaching'." If, great king, one under seven years old were to be excited by what excites, be corrupted by what corrupts, be deluded by what deludes, be intoxicated by what intoxicates, were to cognize a view, were to cognize delight and discontent, were to think about wholesome and unwholesome, there would be breakthrough to the Teaching for him. However, great king, the mind of one under seven years old is powerless, weak, limited, small, little, slow, unclear, and the unconditioned element of Nibbāna is weighty, heavy, vast, great. One under seven years old, great king, with that weak mind that is limited, slow and unclear, is not able to penetrate the weighty, heavy, vast, great unconditioned element of Nibbāna.

"Just as, great king, Mount Sineru, king of mountains, is weighty, heavy, vast, great, but great king, would a person with his natural strength, power and energy be able to lift up Mount Sineru, king of mountains?" "No, Venerable Sir." "For what reason, great king?" "Due to the weakness of the person, Venerable Sir, and the greatness of Mount Sineru, king of mountains." Even so, great king, the mind of one under seven years old is powerless, weak, limited, small, little, slow, unclear, and the unconditioned element of Nibbāna is weighty, heavy, vast, great. One under seven years old with that weak mind that is limited, slow and unclear is not able to penetrate the weighty, heavy, vast, great unconditioned element of Nibbāna, for this reason even one practising well who is under seven years old does not have breakthrough to the Teaching.

"Moreover, great king, this great earth is long, extended, broad, wide, expansive, extensive, vast, great, but great king, would it be possible to moisten the great earth and make it muddy with a small drop of water?" "No, Venerable Sir." "For what reason, great king?" "Because of the smallness, Venerable Sir, of the drop of water, and the greatness of the great earth." "Even so, great king, the mind of one under seven years old is powerless, weak, limited, small, little, slow, unclear, and the unconditioned element of Nibbāna is long, extended, broad, wide, expansive, extensive, vast, great. One under seven years old with that weak mind that is limited, slow and unclear is not able to penetrate the great unconditioned element of Nibbāna, for this reason even one practising well who is under seven years old does not have breakthrough to the Teaching.

"Moreover, great king, if there were a powerless, weak, limited, small, little, slow fire, would it be possible, great king, with such a slow fire to dispel darkness and show light in the world with its deities?" "No, Venerable Sir." "For what reason, great king?" "Because of the slowness of the fire, Venerable Sir, and the greatness of the world." Even so, great king, the mind of one under seven years old is powerless, weak, limited, small, little, slow, unclear, and covered by great darkness of ignorance. Therefore it is difficult to show the light of knowledge, for this reason even one practising well who is under seven years old does not have breakthrough to the Teaching.

"Moreover, great king, if a sick, thin, minute worm were to see a bull elephant that is in rut, nine hands in length, three in width, ten in circumference, eight ratanas in height, having come to its place, and were to try to swallow it, would that worm, great king, be able to swallow that bull elephant?" "No, Venerable Sir." "For what reason, great king?" "Because of the smallness of the wood-worm, Venerable Sir, and the greatness of the bull elephant." Even so, great king, the mind of one under seven years old is powerless, weak, limited, small, little, slow, unclear, and the unconditioned element of Nibbāna is great. With that weak mind that is limited, slow and unclear, he is not able to penetrate the great unconditioned element of Nibbāna, for this reason even one practising well who is under seven years old does not have breakthrough to the Teaching." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Eighth Question, about Breakthrough to the Teaching.

9.

The Question About Nibbāna Being Exclusively Happiness

9. "Venerable Nāgasena, is Nibbāna exclusively happiness, or is it mixed with suffering?" "Great king, Nibbāna is exclusively happiness, unmixed with suffering."

"We do not believe that statement, Venerable Nāgasena, that 'Nibbāna is exclusively happiness.' Here, Venerable Nāgasena, we accept that 'Nibbāna is mixed with suffering,' and we find a reason for this that 'Nibbāna is mixed with suffering.'" What is that reason here? Venerable Nāgasena, those who search for Nibbāna are seen to have burning and torment of body and mind, standing, walking, sitting, lying down, restraint in food, suppression of torpor, affliction of the sense bases, and abandoning of wealth, grain, dear relatives and friends. Whoever in the world are happy and endowed with happiness, all of them delight in and develop the five bases of sensual pleasure: they delight in and develop the eye with various agreeable and disagreeable beautiful signs of form; they delight in and develop the ear with various agreeable and disagreeable beautiful signs of sound of song and music; they delight in and develop the nose with various agreeable and disagreeable beautiful signs of odour of flowers, fruits, leaves, bark, roots and essence; they delight in and develop the tongue with various agreeable and disagreeable beautiful signs of taste of what is to be chewed, eaten, licked, drunk and savoured; they delight in and develop the body with various agreeable and disagreeable beautiful signs of touch that is soft, subtle, smooth and gentle; they delight in and develop the mind with various agreeable and disagreeable thoughts and attention of good and evil, beautiful and ugly. You destroy and ruin, cut off and sever, block and obstruct that development of eye, ear, nose, tongue, body and mind. Therefore the body is tormented and the mind is tormented. When the body is tormented, one feels bodily painful feeling. When the mind is tormented, one feels mental painful feeling. Did not the wanderer Māgaṇḍiya blame the Blessed One saying thus: 'The ascetic Gotama is a destroyer of growth.' This is the reason here, for which reason I say 'Nibbāna is mixed with suffering.'"

"No, great king, Nibbāna is not mixed with suffering. Nibbāna is exclusively happiness. But what you say, great king, "Nibbāna is suffering", this Nibbāna is not suffering, rather this is the preliminary stage for the realization of Nibbāna, this is the quest for Nibbāna. Nibbāna, great king, is exclusively happiness, not mixed with suffering. I will tell you a reason for this. Is there, great king, what is called the happiness of kingship for kings?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, there is happiness of kingship for kings." "But great king, is that happiness of kingship mixed with suffering?" "No, Venerable Sir." "But why then, great king, when the frontier is disturbed, do kings surrounded by ministers, guides, soldiers and troops go abroad to suppress those dwelling on the frontier, and run about on even and uneven ground afflicted by gadflies, mosquitoes, wind and heat, and engage in great battles, and come into danger of life?" "This, Venerable Nāgasena, is not called happiness of kingship, this is the preliminary stage in the quest for happiness of kingship. Kings, Venerable Nāgasena, having sought kingship with suffering, experience the happiness of kingship. Thus, Venerable Nāgasena, the happiness of kingship is unmixed with suffering, the happiness of kingship is one thing, suffering is another." "Even so, great king, Nibbāna is exclusively happiness, not mixed with suffering. But those who seek that Nibbāna, having tormented body and mind, having controlled standing, walking, sitting, lying down and food, having suppressed torpor, having afflicted the sense bases, having given up body and life, having sought Nibbāna with suffering, experience Nibbāna which is exclusively happiness, like kings who experience the happiness of kingship having destroyed their enemies. Thus, great king, Nibbāna is exclusively happiness, not mixed with suffering, Nibbāna is one thing, suffering is another."

"Great king, hear another further reason why Nibbāna is exclusively happiness, not mixed with suffering, suffering is one thing, Nibbāna is another. "Is there, great king, what is called happiness of skill for teachers who possess skills?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, there is happiness of skill for teachers who possess skills." "But great king, is that happiness of skill mixed with suffering?" "No, Venerable Sir." "But why then, great king, do teachers torment their bodies with suffering beds and uneven food, having set aside their own wishes and following others' wishes, through welcoming and rising up for teachers, bringing water, sweeping the house, giving tooth sticks and water for the mouth, receiving leftovers, massaging, bathing and attending to their feet?" "This, Venerable Nāgasena, is not called happiness of skill, this is the preliminary stage in the quest for skill. Teachers, Venerable Nāgasena, having sought skill with suffering, experience the happiness of skill. Thus, Venerable Nāgasena, the happiness of skill is unmixed with suffering, the happiness of skill is one thing, suffering is another." "Even so, great king, Nibbāna is exclusively happiness, not mixed with suffering. But those who seek that Nibbāna, having tormented body and mind, having controlled standing, walking, sitting, lying down and food, having suppressed torpor, having afflicted the sense bases, having given up body and life, having sought Nibbāna with suffering, experience Nibbāna which is exclusively happiness, like teachers experiencing the happiness of skill. Thus, great king, Nibbāna is exclusively happiness, not mixed with suffering, suffering is one thing, Nibbāna is another." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Question about Nibbāna being Exclusively Happiness is ninth.

10.

The Question About the Form and Shape of Nibbāna

10. "Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'Nibbāna, Nibbāna', is it possible to point out that Nibbāna's form or shape or age or measure by a simile or reason or cause or method?" "Nibbāna is incomparable, great king, it is not possible to point out Nibbāna's form or shape or age or measure by a simile or reason or cause or method." "I do not accept this, Venerable Nāgasena, that for an existing thing, Nibbāna, there can be no describing of its form or shape or age or measure by a simile or reason or cause or method. Convince me with a reason." "Let it be so, great king, I will convince you with a reason. Is there, great king, what is called the great ocean?" "Yes, Venerable Sir, there is this great ocean." "If someone, great king, were to ask you thus: 'How much water, great king, is in the great ocean, and how many beings are there who live in the great ocean?' Being asked thus, great king, how would you answer him?" "If someone, Venerable Sir, were to ask me thus: 'How much water, great king, is in the great ocean, and how many beings are there who live in the great ocean?' I would say to him thus: 'Good sir, you ask me what should not be asked, this question should not be asked by anyone. This question should be set aside. The great ocean is undivided by world-describers, it is not possible to measure the water in the great ocean or the beings who have come to live there.' Thus, Venerable Sir, would I give him an answer."

"But why, great king, would you give such an answer about the great ocean which actually exists? Should you not count and tell him 'This much water is in the great ocean, and this many beings live in the great ocean'?" "It is not possible, Venerable Sir, this question is beyond our scope."

"Just as, great king, in the very existing great ocean it is not possible to count the water or the beings who have come to live there, even so, great king, for the very existing Nibbāna it is not possible to point out its form or shape or age or measure by a simile or reason or cause or method. Great king, one with spiritual power, master of mind, might count the water in the great ocean and the beings dwelling there, but even that one with spiritual power, master of mind, would not be able to point out Nibbāna's form or shape or age or measure by a simile or reason or cause or method."

"Great king, hear another further reason why for the very existing Nibbāna it is not possible to point out its form or shape or age or measure by a simile or reason or cause or method." "There are, great king, deities called formless beings." "Yes, Venerable Sir, it is heard 'there are deities called formless beings'." "But is it possible, great king, to point out those formless deities' form or shape or age or measure by a simile or reason or cause or method?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Then, great king, do formless deities not exist?" "There are formless deities, Venerable Sir, but it is not possible to point out their form or shape or age or measure by a simile or reason or cause or method." "Just as, great king, though formless deities exist, it is not possible to point out their form or shape or age or measure by a simile or reason or cause or method, even so, great king, though Nibbāna exists, it is not possible to point out its form or shape or age or measure by a simile or reason or cause or method."

"Venerable Nāgasena, let Nibbāna be exclusively happiness, but it is not possible to point out its form or shape or age or measure by a simile or reason or cause or method. "But Venerable Sir, is there any simile or illustration of the qualities of Nibbāna that have entered into other things?" "Great king, there is none in form, but it is possible to show some simile or illustration in terms of qualities." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, quickly tell me how I might obtain even a partial illumination of the qualities of Nibbāna, extinguish my heart's passion with the cool sweet breeze of your words."

"Great king, one quality of the lotus has entered into Nibbāna, two qualities of water, three qualities of medicine, four qualities of the great ocean, five qualities of food, ten qualities of space, three qualities of the gem-jewel, three qualities of red sandalwood, three qualities of ghee-essence, five qualities of the mountain peak have entered into Nibbāna."

"Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'one quality of the lotus has entered into Nibbāna', which one quality of the lotus has entered into Nibbāna?" "Just as, great king, the lotus is unstained by water, even so, great king, Nibbāna is unstained by all defilements. This, great king, is the one quality of the lotus that has entered into Nibbāna."

"Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'two qualities of water have entered into Nibbāna', which two qualities of water have entered into Nibbāna?" "Just as, great king, water is cool, extinguishing fever, even so, great king, Nibbāna is cool, extinguishing all the fever of defilements. This, great king, is the first quality of water that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, water removes the thirst of weary, thirsty, heat-afflicted people and animals, even so, great king, Nibbāna removes the thirst of sensual craving, craving for existence and craving for non-existence. This, great king, is the second quality of water that has entered into Nibbāna. These, great king, are the two qualities of water that have entered into Nibbāna."

"Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'three qualities of medicine have entered into Nibbāna', which three qualities of medicine have entered into Nibbāna?" "Just as, great king, medicine is a refuge for beings afflicted by poison, even so, great king, Nibbāna is a refuge for beings afflicted by the poison of defilements. This, great king, is the first quality of medicine that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, medicine is a maker of end to diseases, even so, great king, Nibbāna is a maker of end to all suffering. This, great king, is the second quality of medicine that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, medicine is the Deathless, even so, great king, Nibbāna is the Deathless. This, great king, is the third quality of medicine that has entered into Nibbāna. These, great king, are the three qualities of medicine that have entered into Nibbāna."

"Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'four qualities of the great ocean have entered into Nibbāna', which four qualities of the great ocean have entered into Nibbāna?" "Just as, great king, the great ocean is empty of all corpses, even so, great king, Nibbāna is empty of all the corpses of defilements. This, great king, is the first quality of the great ocean that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, the great ocean is great, without further shore, and is not filled by all streams, even so, great king, Nibbāna is great, without further shore, and is not filled by all beings. This, great king, is the second quality of the great ocean that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, the great ocean is the abode of great beings, even so, great king, Nibbāna is the abode of great beings - Arahants who are stainless, with taints destroyed, who have attained power and mastery. This, great king, is the third quality of the great ocean that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, the great ocean is adorned with immeasurable, various, vast waves and flowers, even so, great king, Nibbāna is adorned with immeasurable, various, vast flowers of pure true knowledge and liberation. This, great king, is the fourth quality of the great ocean that has entered into Nibbāna. These, great king, are the four qualities of the great ocean that have entered into Nibbāna."

"Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'five qualities of food have entered into Nibbāna', which five qualities of food have entered into Nibbāna?" "Just as, great king, food maintains life for all beings, even so, great king, Nibbāna when realized maintains life through the destruction of aging and death. This, great king, is the first quality of food that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, food increases strength for all beings, even so, great king, Nibbāna when realized increases the power of spiritual power for all beings. This, great king, is the second quality of food that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, food generates beauty for all beings, even so, great king, Nibbāna when realized generates the beauty of qualities for all beings. This, great king, is the third quality of food that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, food calms disturbance for all beings, even so, great king, Nibbāna when realized calms all the disturbance of defilements for all beings. This, great king, is the fourth quality of food that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, food removes the weakness of hunger for all beings, even so, great king, Nibbāna when realized removes the weakness of hunger of all suffering for all beings. This, great king, is the fifth quality of food that has entered into Nibbāna. These, great king, are the five qualities of food that have entered into Nibbāna."

"Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'ten qualities of space have entered into Nibbāna', which ten qualities of space have entered into Nibbāna?" "Just as, great king, space is not born, does not age, does not die, does not pass away, does not arise, is difficult to overcome, cannot be stolen by thieves, is independent, is the path of birds, is unobstructed, is infinite. Even so, great king, Nibbāna is not born, does not age, does not die, does not pass away, does not arise, is difficult to overcome, cannot be stolen by thieves, is independent, is the path of the noble ones, is unobstructed, is infinite. These, great king, are the ten qualities of space that have entered into Nibbāna."

"Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'three qualities of the jewel-gem have entered into Nibbāna', which three qualities of the jewel-gem have entered into Nibbāna?" "Just as, great king, a jewel-gem grants wishes, even so, great king, Nibbāna grants wishes. This, great king, is the first quality of the jewel-gem that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, a jewel-gem brings joy, even so, great king, Nibbāna brings joy. This, great king, is the second quality of the jewel-gem that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, a jewel-gem creates radiance, even so, great king, Nibbāna creates radiance. This, great king, is the third quality of the jewel-gem that has entered into Nibbāna. These, great king, are the three qualities of the jewel-gem that have entered into Nibbāna."

"Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'three qualities of red sandalwood have entered into Nibbāna', which three qualities of red sandalwood have entered into Nibbāna?" "Just as, great king, red sandalwood is hard to obtain, even so, great king, Nibbāna is hard to obtain. This, great king, is the first quality of red sandalwood that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, red sandalwood has an incomparable fragrance, even so, great king, Nibbāna has an incomparable fragrance. This, great king, is the second quality of red sandalwood that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, red sandalwood is praised by good people, even so, great king, Nibbāna is praised by noble good people. This, great king, is the third quality of red sandalwood that has entered into Nibbāna. These, great king, are the three qualities of red sandalwood that have entered into Nibbāna."

"Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'three qualities of ghee-essence have entered into Nibbāna', which three qualities of ghee-essence have entered into Nibbāna?" "Just as, great king, ghee-essence is endowed with beauty, even so, great king, Nibbāna is endowed with the beauty of qualities. This, great king, is the first quality of ghee-essence that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, ghee-essence is endowed with fragrance, even so, great king, Nibbāna is endowed with the fragrance of virtue. This, great king, is the second quality of ghee-essence that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, ghee-essence is endowed with taste, even so, great king, Nibbāna is endowed with taste. This, great king, is the third quality of ghee-essence that has entered into Nibbāna. These, great king, are the three qualities of ghee-essence that have entered into Nibbāna."

"Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'five qualities of the mountain peak have entered into Nibbāna', which five qualities of the mountain peak have entered into Nibbāna?" "Just as, great king, a mountain peak is extremely high, even so, great king, Nibbāna is extremely high. This, great king, is the first quality of the mountain peak that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, a mountain peak is unshakeable, even so, great king, Nibbāna is unshakeable. This, great king, is the second quality of the mountain peak that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, a mountain peak is difficult to climb, even so, great king, Nibbāna is difficult to climb for all defilements. This, great king, is the third quality of the mountain peak that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, a mountain peak is where no seeds can grow, even so, great king, Nibbāna is where no defilements can grow. This, great king, is the fourth quality of the mountain peak that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, a mountain peak is free from attraction and aversion, even so, great king, Nibbāna is free from attraction and aversion. This, great king, is the fifth quality of the mountain peak that has entered into Nibbāna. These, great king, are the five qualities of the mountain peak that have entered into Nibbāna." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Question about the Form and Shape of Nibbāna, the tenth.

11.

The Question About the Realization of Nibbāna

11. "Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'Nibbāna is not past, not future, not present, not arisen, not not arisen, not to be produced'. Here, Venerable Nāgasena, when anyone who practises rightly realizes Nibbāna, does he realize what is arisen, or does he realize it after producing it?" "Great king, when anyone who practises rightly realizes Nibbāna, he neither realizes what is arisen, nor realizes it after producing it. However, great king, there is this element of Nibbāna, which one who practises rightly realizes."

"Do not, Venerable Nāgasena, explain this question keeping it concealed, explain it making it open and evident. Being full of desire and full of energy, pour forth here all that you have learned. Regarding this people are confused, perplexed, fallen into doubt. Break this dart of inner corruption." "There is, great king, that element of Nibbāna, peaceful, pleasant, sublime, which one practising rightly, exploring formations through wisdom according to the Conqueror's instruction, realizes. Just as, great king, an apprentice realizes knowledge through wisdom according to the teacher's instruction, even so, great king, one practising rightly realizes Nibbāna through wisdom according to the Conqueror's instruction.

"But how should that Nibbāna be seen?" It should be seen as free from calamity, free from misfortune, free from fear, secure, peaceful, happy, pleasant, sublime, pure, cool.

"Just as, great king, a person being burnt by a blazing, burning fire with a large pile of wood, having escaped from there through effort and entered a place without fire, would there obtain supreme happiness, even so, great king, one who practises rightly realizes through careful attention the supreme happiness of Nibbāna where the torment of the three fires has departed." Just as, great king, fire, so should the three fires be seen; just as a person in fire, so should one practising rightly be seen; just as a place without fire, so should Nibbāna be seen.

"Moreover, great king, just as a person who has entered into a mass of corpses of snakes, dogs and humans, bodily waste and filth, entangled in a tangle of corpses, having escaped from there through effort and entered a place without corpses, would there obtain supreme happiness, even so, great king, one who practises rightly realizes through careful attention the supreme happiness of Nibbāna where the corpses of defilements have departed." Just as, great king, a corpse, so should the five cords of sensual pleasure be seen; just as a person who has gone to a corpse, so should one practising rightly be seen; just as a place without corpses, so should Nibbāna be seen.

"Moreover, great king, just as a person who is frightened, anxious, trembling, with mind confused and deranged, having escaped from there through effort and entered a firm, stable, unshakeable place of safety, would there obtain supreme happiness, even so, great king, one who practises rightly realizes through careful attention the supreme happiness of Nibbāna where fear and terror have departed. Just as fear, great king, so should fear occurring again and again due to birth, aging, disease and death be seen; just as a frightened person, so should one practising rightly be seen; just as a place of safety, so should Nibbāna be seen.

"Moreover, great king, just as a person who has fallen into a place of dirty, stained mud and mire, having washed away that mud and mire through effort and gone to a pure and stainless place, would there obtain supreme happiness, even so, great king, one who practises rightly realizes through careful attention the supreme happiness of Nibbāna where the mud and mire of the stains of defilements have departed. Just as, great king, mud, so should gain, honour and fame be seen; just as a person in mud, so should one practising rightly be seen; just as a pure and stainless place, so should Nibbāna be seen.

"But how does one practising rightly realize that Nibbāna? Great king, one who practises rightly explores the occurrence of formations. Exploring the occurrence, he sees birth there, sees aging there, sees sickness there, sees death there, he sees no happiness or pleasure there from beginning or middle or end. He sees nothing there that can be grasped. Just as, great king, in an iron ball heated by the day's sun, blazing, hot, burning, one sees no place that can be grasped from beginning or middle or end, even so, great king, one who explores the occurrence of formations, exploring the occurrence, he sees birth there, sees aging there, sees sickness there, sees death there, he sees no happiness or pleasure there from beginning or middle or end. He sees nothing there that can be grasped, and not seeing anything that can be grasped, discontent becomes established in his mind, burning enters his body, being without protection, without refuge, having become refugeless, he becomes disenchanted with existences.

"Just as, great king, if a person were to enter a blazing net, a great mass of fire, being there without protection, without refuge, having become refugeless, he would become disenchanted with the fire, even so, great king, not seeing anything that can be grasped, discontent becomes established in his mind, burning enters his body, being without protection, without refuge, having become refugeless, he becomes disenchanted with existences.

"For one who sees fear in existence, such a thought arises: 'This existence is indeed burning, blazing, full of suffering, full of despair. If one could attain non-existence - this is peaceful, this is sublime, that is, the stilling of all formations, the relinquishment of all acquisitions, the destruction of craving, dispassion, cessation, Nibbāna.'" Thus his mind launches out onto that non-occurrence, becomes confident, rejoices, delights thinking 'I have obtained escape'.

"Just as, great king, a person who is lost, gone to a foreign country, having seen a path leading out, launches out onto it, becomes confident, rejoices, delights thinking 'I have obtained a path leading out', even so, great king, for one who sees fear in occurrence, the mind launches out onto non-occurrence, becomes confident, rejoices, delights thinking 'I have obtained escape'."

"He strives, seeks, develops and cultivates the path for the purpose of non-occurrence, for that purpose mindfulness becomes established, for that purpose energy becomes established, for that purpose rapture becomes established, as he repeatedly gives attention to that mind, having transcended occurrence it enters into non-occurrence, great king, one who has attained non-occurrence and practises rightly is said to 'realize Nibbāna'." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus we accept it."

The Question about the Realization of Nibbāna, the eleventh.

12.

The Question About the Location of Nibbāna

12. "Venerable Nāgasena, is there a place in the eastern direction, or the southern direction, or the western direction, or the northern direction, or above, or below, or across, where Nibbāna is located?" "No, great king, there is no place in the eastern direction, or the southern direction, or the western direction, or the northern direction, or above, or below, or across, where Nibbāna is located."

"If, Venerable Nāgasena, there is no place where Nibbāna is located, then does Nibbāna not exist?" "And for those who have realized that Nibbāna, their realization too is wrong. I will tell the reason for that. Just as, Venerable Nāgasena, there is a field for the arising of grain on the earth, there is a flower for the arising of odour, there is a bush for the arising of flowers, there is a tree for the arising of fruit, there is a mine for the arising of jewels, and whoever wants whatever goes there and takes that, even so, Venerable Nāgasena, if Nibbāna exists, a place for the arising of that Nibbāna should be desired. But because, Venerable Nāgasena, there is no place for the arising of Nibbāna, therefore I say there is no Nibbāna, and for those who have realized Nibbāna, their realization too is wrong."

"There is no place where Nibbāna is stored, great king, but this Nibbāna exists. One who practises rightly realizes Nibbāna through careful attention. Moreover, great king, there is what is called fire, there is no place where it is stored, one obtains fire by rubbing two sticks together. Even so, great king, there is Nibbāna, there is no place where it is stored, one who practises rightly realizes Nibbāna through careful attention.

"Moreover, great king, there are what are called the seven treasures. that is: the wheel treasure, the elephant treasure, the horse treasure, the jewel treasure, the woman treasure, the householder treasure, the adviser treasure. And there is no place where these treasures are stored, but through the power of right practice these treasures come to a noble who practises rightly. Even so, great king, there is Nibbāna, there is no place where it is stored, one who practises rightly realizes Nibbāna through careful attention."

"Venerable Nāgasena, let there be no place where Nibbāna is stored, but is there that state where one who practises rightly stands and realizes Nibbāna?" "Yes, great king, there is that state where one who practises rightly stands and realizes Nibbāna."

"But Venerable Sir, what is that state where one who practises rightly stands and realizes Nibbāna?" "Great king, virtue is the state; one established in virtue, carefully attending, whether standing in Sakayavana, Cīnavilāta, Alasanda, Nigumba, Kāsikosala, Kashmir, Gandhāra, on a mountain peak, or in the brahmā world, or wherever, practising rightly realizes Nibbāna. Just as, great king, any person with vision whether standing in Sakayavana, Cīnavilāta, Alasanda, Nigumba, Kāsikosala, Kashmir, Gandhāra, on a mountain peak, or in the brahmā world, or wherever, sees the sky, even so, great king, one established in virtue, carefully attending, whether in Sakayavana...etc... wherever standing, practising rightly realizes Nibbāna.

"Moreover, great king, in Sakayavana...etc... just as for one standing anywhere there is the eastern direction, even so, great king, for one established in virtue, carefully attending, whether in Sakayavana...etc... for one practising rightly standing anywhere there is realization of Nibbāna." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, Nibbāna has been taught by you, the realization of Nibbāna has been taught, the qualities of virtue have been explained, right practice has been shown, the banner of Teaching has been raised, the guide of Teaching has been established, the right endeavour of those well engaged is not fruitless, thus we accept it, foremost among the excellent teachers."

The Question about the Location of Nibbāna, the twelfth.

The Third Chapter about Vessantara.

In this chapter there are twelve questions.

4.

The Chapter of Inference

1.

The Question of Inference

1. Then King Milinda approached the Venerable Nāgasena, and having approached, paid homage to the Venerable Nāgasena and sat down to one side. Seated to one side, King Milinda, wishing to know, wishing to hear, wishing to remember, wishing to see the light of knowledge, wishing to break ignorance, wishing to produce the light of knowledge, wishing to destroy the darkness of ignorance, having established supreme steadfastness, energy, mindfulness and clear comprehension, said this to the Venerable Nāgasena: "Venerable Nāgasena, have you seen the Enlightened One?" "No, great king." "Have your teachers seen the Enlightened One?" "No, great king." "Venerable Nāgasena, you say you have not seen the Enlightened One, and you say your teachers have not seen the Enlightened One. Then, Venerable Nāgasena, there is no Enlightened One, no Enlightened One is found here."

"But great king, are there former nobles who were the ancestors of your noble lineage?" "Yes, Venerable Sir. Without doubt, there are former nobles who were the ancestors of my noble lineage." "Have you seen those former nobles, great king?" "No, Venerable Sir." "But great king, have those who instruct you - the priests, generals, judges, ministers - seen those former nobles?" "No, Venerable Sir." "If you have not seen those former nobles, great king, and you say your instructors have not seen those former nobles, then there are no former nobles, no former nobles are found here."

"There are seen, Venerable Nāgasena, the objects used and enjoyed by former nobles. That is: white parasol, turban, sandals, fan, sword-jewel and very valuable beds. By which we would know and believe 'there are former nobles'. "Even so, great king, we would know and believe this about the Blessed One. There is that reason, by which reason we would know and believe 'there is that Blessed One'. What is that reason? There are, great king, items used by that Blessed One who knows and sees, the Worthy One, the Perfectly Enlightened One. That is: the four foundations of mindfulness, the four right strivings, the four bases for spiritual power, the five faculties, the five powers, the seven enlightenment factors, the Noble Eightfold Path, by which the world with its deities knows and believes 'there is that Blessed One'. By this reason, great king, by this cause, by this method, by this inference it should be known 'there is that Blessed One'.

"Venerable Nāgasena, make a simile." "Just as, great king, a city architect wishing to build a city first surveys a ground area that is level, neither high nor low, free from gravel and stones, free from hazards and faults, delightful, and having levelled whatever is uneven there, having cleared away stumps and thorns, would build there a city that is beautiful, well-laid out, measured in sections, with moats and walls dug around, with strong gates, towers and turrets, with many squares, four-way junctions and intersections, with clean level royal roads, with well-distributed shops in between, endowed with parks, gardens, lakes, ponds and wells, adorned with various kinds of shrines, free from all faults. When that city has reached complete expansion in every way, he would go to another region, and then at a later time that city would become prosperous, flourishing, well-supplied, secure, successful, auspicious, free from calamity, free from hazards, crowded with various people - many nobles, brahmins, merchants, workers, elephant riders, horse riders, charioteers, foot soldiers, archers, shield bearers, cloth workers, weavers, alms givers, nobles, princes, heroes, great elephants, brave ones, armoured ones, warriors, sons of slaves, sons of servants, wrestlers, accountants, cooks, chefs, barbers, bath attendants, turners, garland makers, goldsmiths, silver smiths, lead workers, copper workers, lathe workers, iron workers, jewellers, weavers, potters, bamboo workers, salt makers, leather workers, chariot makers, ivory workers, rope makers, comb makers, thread makers, basket makers, bow makers, bowstring makers, arrow makers, painters, dyers, washers, weavers, tailors, money changers, cloth merchants, perfume sellers, grass carriers, wood carriers, hired workers, greengrocers, crystal sellers, root sellers, rice sellers, cake sellers, fish sellers, meat sellers, liquor sellers, actors, dancers, acrobats, magicians, bards, wrestlers, corpse burners, flower throwers, bamboo workers, hunters, courtesans, dancers, slave women, people from Sakya, Yavana, China and Vilāta, people from Ujjeni, Bhārukaccha, Kāsi, Kosala, Paranta, Magadha, Sāketa, Soreyya, Pāvā, Koṭumbara, Mathurā, Alasanda, Kashmir and Gandhāra - people from various regions having come to live in that city, seeing that city new, well-laid out, faultless, without defect, delightful, would know by inference 'Skilled indeed was that city architect who was the builder of this city'. Even so, great king, that Blessed One who is unequalled, equal to the unequalled, without equal, incomparable, matchless, incalculable, immeasurable, unlimited, of immeasurable qualities, reached the perfection of qualities, of endless resolution, of endless power, of endless energy, of endless strength, gone to the perfection of Buddha-power, having defeated Māra with his army, having torn apart the net of views, having destroyed ignorance, having produced true knowledge, having held up the torch of Teaching, having attained omniscience, having won the battle, built a city of Teaching.

"The Blessed One's city of Teaching, great king, has virtue as its walls, shame as its moat, knowledge as its gateway and tower, energy as its watchtower, faith as its pillar, mindfulness as its gatekeeper, wisdom as its palace, discourses as its squares, abhidhamma as its intersections, vinaya as its judgement hall, foundations of mindfulness as its streets, and in that street of the foundations of mindfulness, great king, such shops are set up. That is: flower shop, fragrance shop, fruit shop, medicine shop, herb shop, deathless shop, jewel shop, all shops."

"Venerable Nāgasena, what is the Blessed One's flower shop?" "There are indeed, great king, meditation objects explained by that Blessed One who knows and sees, the Worthy One, the Fully Enlightened One. That is: perception of impermanence, perception of suffering, perception of non-self, perception of foulness, perception of danger, perception of abandoning, perception of dispassion, perception of cessation, perception of non-delight in the whole world, perception of impermanence in all formations, mindfulness of breathing, perception of the bloated corpse, perception of the discoloured corpse, perception of the festering corpse, perception of the fissured corpse, perception of the gnawed corpse, perception of the scattered corpse, perception of the hacked and scattered corpse, perception of the bleeding corpse, perception of the worm-infested corpse, perception of the skeleton, perception of loving-kindness, perception of compassion, perception of altruistic joy, perception of equanimity, recollection of death, mindfulness directed to the body. These, great king, are the meditation objects explained by the Buddha, the Blessed One. There, whoever wishes to be freed from aging and death takes one of these objects of meditation. Through that object they are freed from lust, freed from hatred, freed from delusion, freed from conceit, freed from views, crosses over the round of births, blocks the stream of craving, purifies the three stains, and having destroyed all defilements, enters the supreme city, the city of Nibbāna, which is stainless, dustless, pure, bright, unborn, unaging, deathless, happy, cooled, fearless, and liberates the mind in Arahantship. This, great king, is called 'the Blessed One's flower shop'.

"Venerable Nāgasena, what is the Blessed One's perfume shop?" "There are indeed, great king, divisions of virtue explained by that Blessed One, anointed with which fragrance of virtue the Blessed One's sons perfume and pervade the world with deities with the fragrance of virtue, they waft in every direction, with the wind and against the wind, they spread and pervade, having pervaded they remain. What are these divisions of virtue? The virtue of going for refuge, the five-factored virtue, the eight-factored virtue, the ten-factored virtue, the virtue of restraint with the code of monastic rules included in the five expositions. This, great king, is called 'the Blessed One's perfume shop'. This was spoken by the Blessed One, the deity above deities -

"Venerable Nāgasena, what is the Blessed One's fruit shop?" "Great king, fruits have been explained by the Blessed One. That is: the fruit of stream-entry, the fruit of once-returning, the fruit of non-returning, the fruit of arahantship, the fruition attainment of voidness, the fruition attainment of signlessness, the fruition attainment of undirectedness. There, whoever wants any fruit, having given the root of action, buys the desired fruit. Whether the fruit of stream-entry, whether the fruit of once-returning, whether the fruit of non-returning, whether the fruit of arahantship, whether the fruition attainment of voidness, whether the fruition attainment of signlessness, whether the fruition attainment of undirectedness. Just as, great king, if someone had a mango tree that always bore fruit, he would not yet pick fruits from it until buyers come, but when buyers have arrived, having taken payment he explains thus: 'Good sir, this is a mango tree that always bears fruit, from it take whatever fruit you want, whether unripe or half-ripe or fibrous or raw or ripe', and he with the payment he has given, if he wants unripe fruit takes unripe fruit, if he wants half-ripe fruit takes half-ripe fruit, if he wants fibrous fruit takes fibrous fruit, if he wants raw fruit takes raw fruit, if he wants ripe fruit takes ripe fruit. Even so, great king, whoever wants any fruit, having given the root of action, takes the desired fruit, whether the fruit of stream-entry...etc... whether the fruition attainment of undirectedness, this, great king, is called 'the Blessed One's fruit shop'.

"Venerable Nāgasena, what is the Blessed One's medicine shop?" "Great king, medicines have been explained by the Blessed One, with which medicines the Blessed One frees the world with its deities from the poison of defilements. What are those medicines? Great king, these are the four noble truths explained by the Blessed One. That is: the noble truth of suffering, the noble truth of the origin of suffering, the noble truth of the cessation of suffering, the noble truth of the way leading to the cessation of suffering. There, whoever wishing for final knowledge listens to the Teaching of the four truths, they are freed from birth, freed from aging, freed from death, freed from sorrow, lamentation, pain, displeasure and despair. This, great king, is called 'the Blessed One's medicine shop'."

"Venerable Nāgasena, what is the Blessed One's medicine shop?" "Great king, medicines have been explained by the Blessed One, with which medicines he treats deities and human beings. That is: the four foundations of mindfulness, the four right strivings, the four bases for spiritual power, the five faculties, the five powers, the seven enlightenment factors, the Noble Eightfold Path. With these medicines the Blessed One purges wrong view, purges wrong intention, purges wrong speech, purges wrong action, purges wrong livelihood, purges wrong effort, purges wrong mindfulness, purges wrong concentration, causes vomiting of greed, causes vomiting of hatred, causes vomiting of delusion, causes vomiting of conceit, causes vomiting of views, causes vomiting of doubt, causes vomiting of restlessness, causes vomiting of sloth and torpor, causes vomiting of shamelessness and fearlessness of wrongdoing, causes vomiting of all defilements. This, great king, is called 'the Blessed One's medicine shop'."

"Venerable Nāgasena, what is the Blessed One's shop of the Deathless?" "Great king, the Deathless has been explained by the Blessed One, with which Deathless he anointed the world with its deities, anointed with which Deathless deities and human beings were freed from birth, aging, sickness, death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, displeasure and despair. What is that Deathless? That is, mindfulness directed to the body. This too was spoken by the Blessed One, the deity above deities: 'Monks, those who partake of mindfulness directed to the body partake of the Deathless.' This, great king, is called 'the Blessed One's shop of the Deathless'.

"Venerable Nāgasena, what is the Blessed One's jewel shop?" "Great king, jewels have been explained by the Blessed One, adorned with which jewels the Blessed One's sons illuminate, shine upon, light up, blaze, and flame upon the world with its deities, showing light above, below, and across. What are these jewels? The jewel of virtue, the jewel of concentration, the jewel of wisdom, the jewel of liberation, the jewel of knowledge and vision of liberation, the jewel of analytical knowledge, the jewel of enlightenment factors.

"What, great king, is the Blessed One's jewel of virtue? The virtue of restraint in the code of monastic rules, the virtue of restraint of the faculties, the virtue of purification of livelihood, the virtue dependent upon requisites, minor virtue, middling virtue, great virtue, path virtue, fruition virtue. Great king, the world with its deities, Māra, and Brahmā, this generation with its ascetics and brahmins, admires and aspires to an individual adorned with the jewel of virtue. Great king, a monk adorned with the jewel of virtue shines and outshines in all directions - in this direction and that, above and below and across. Taking the space from the Avīci hell below to the highest existence above, he stands having transcended, overcome and overwhelmed all jewels in between. Great king, such jewels of virtue are displayed in the Blessed One's jewel shop. This, great king, is called 'the Blessed One's jewel of virtue'.

"What, great king, is the Blessed One's jewel of concentration? Concentration with thought and examination, concentration with examination only, concentration without thought and examination, concentration on emptiness, signless concentration, undirected concentration. Great king, for a monk adorned with the jewel of concentration, whatever bases of defilements there are - thoughts of sensual pleasure, thoughts of ill will, thoughts of harming, conceit, restlessness, views, doubt, and various kinds of wrong thoughts - all these upon encountering concentration scatter, disperse, break up, do not remain, do not cling. Just as, great king, water on a lotus leaf scatters, disperses, breaks up, does not remain, does not cling. What is the reason for this? Because of the purity of the lotus. Even so, great king, for a monk adorned with the jewel of concentration, whatever bases of defilements there are - thoughts of sensual pleasure, thoughts of ill will, thoughts of harming, conceit, restlessness, views, doubt, and various kinds of wrong thoughts - all these upon encountering concentration scatter, disperse, break up, do not remain, do not cling. What is the reason for this? Because of the purity of concentration. This, great king, is called 'the Blessed One's jewel of concentration'. Such jewels of concentration, great king, are displayed in the Blessed One's jewel shop.

"What, great king, is the Blessed One's jewel of wisdom? Great king, by this wisdom the noble disciple understands as it really is 'This is wholesome', understands as it really is 'This is unwholesome', understands as it really is 'This is blameworthy, this is blameless, this should be pursued, this should not be pursued, this is low, this is sublime, this is dark, this is bright, this is of dark and bright character', understands as it really is 'This is suffering', understands as it really is 'This is the origin of suffering', understands as it really is 'This is the cessation of suffering', understands as it really is 'This is the way leading to the cessation of suffering'. This, great king, is called 'the Blessed One's jewel of wisdom'.

"What, great king, is the Blessed One's jewel of liberation?" "The jewel of liberation, great king, is called Arahantship. A monk who has attained Arahantship, great king, is called 'one adorned with the jewel of liberation'. Just as, great king, a person adorned with strings of pearls, strings of jewels, strings of coral and ornaments, his body anointed with aloe, tagara, tālīsa and red sandalwood, decorated with nāga, punnāga, sāla, salaḷa, campaka, yūthika, timuttaka, pāṭali, uppala, vassika and mallika flowers, surpassing the rest of the people, shines and outshines, illuminates, radiates and fully radiates, burns and blazes, overcomes and overwhelms with garlands, fragrances, jewels and ornaments, even so, great king, one who has attained Arahantship with taints destroyed, adorned with the jewel of liberation, taking into account those monks who are liberated, surpassing and completely surpassing them, shines and outshines, illuminates, radiates and fully radiates, burns and blazes, overcomes and overwhelms with liberation. What is the reason for this? This adornment, great king, is the foremost of all adornments, that is, the adornment of liberation. This, great king, is called 'the Blessed One's jewel of liberation'.

"What, great king, is the Blessed One's jewel of knowledge and vision of liberation? Great king, the Blessed One's jewel of knowledge and vision of liberation is called the knowledge of reviewing, by which the noble disciple reviews the path, fruition, Nibbāna, the abandoned defilements and the remaining defilements.

"What, great king, is the Blessed One's jewel of analytical knowledge? Great king, there are four analytical knowledges: analytical knowledge of meaning, analytical knowledge of the Teaching, analytical knowledge of language and analytical knowledge of discernment. Great king, a monk adorned with these four jewels of analytical knowledge, when approaching any assembly - whether it is an assembly of nobles, an assembly of brahmins, an assembly of householders, or an assembly of ascetics - approaches confidently, not abashed, fearless, unafraid, not terrified, with hair not standing on end.

"Just as, great king, a heroic warrior equipped with five weapons enters battle fearlessly thinking 'If enemies are far away I will strike them down with an arrow, if they come closer I will strike with a spear, if they come closer I will strike with a lance, when they have come near I will cut them in two with a sword, when they come to the body I will pierce them with a dagger', even so, great king, a monk adorned with the four jewels of analytical knowledge approaches an assembly fearlessly." Whoever asks me a question about analytical knowledge of meaning, I will explain meaning with meaning, reason with reason, cause with cause, method with method, I will remove doubt, dispel uncertainty, and satisfy them with the answering of questions.

Whoever asks me a question about analytical knowledge of the Teaching, I will explain Teaching with Teaching, the Deathless with the Deathless, the unconditioned with the unconditioned, Nibbāna with Nibbāna, emptiness with emptiness, the signless with the signless, the undirected with the undirected, the unstirred with the unstirred, I will remove doubt, dispel uncertainty, and satisfy them with the answering of questions.

Whoever asks me a question about analytical knowledge of language, I will explain language with language, term with term, word by word, letter with letter, conjunction with conjunction, phrase with phrase, feature with feature, praise with praise, substance with substance, description with description, expression with expression, I will remove doubt, dispel uncertainty, and satisfy them with the answering of questions.

Whoever asks me a question about analytical knowledge of ingenuity, I will explain ingenuity with ingenuity, simile with simile, characteristic with characteristic, taste with taste, I will remove doubt, dispel uncertainty, and satisfy them with the answering of questions. This, great king, is called 'the Blessed One's jewel of analytical knowledge'.

"What, great king, is the Blessed One's jewel of enlightenment factors? These seven enlightenment factors, great king: the mindfulness enlightenment factor, the investigation-of-states enlightenment factor, the energy enlightenment factor, the rapture enlightenment factor, the tranquillity enlightenment factor, the concentration enlightenment factor, the equanimity enlightenment factor. Great king, adorned with these seven jewels of enlightenment factors a monk, having overcome all darkness, illuminates, brightens, and generates light in the world with its deities. This, great king, is called 'the Blessed One's jewel of enlightenment factors'.

"Venerable Nāgasena, what is the Blessed One's general shop?" "Great king, the Blessed One's general shop is the nine-limbed word of the Buddha, the bodily relics, the objects of use, the shrines and the jewel of the Community. Great king, in the general shop the Blessed One has displayed success in birth, success in wealth, success in life span, success in health, success in beauty, success in wisdom, success in human attainments, success in divine attainments, success in Nibbāna. There, those who want any particular success, having given the root of action, buy the desired success - some buy through undertaking virtue, some buy through observance day practice, through even a small root of action they obtain successes taking them into account. Just as, great king, in a shopkeeper's shop they take sesame, beans and pulses taking them into account through even a small amount of rice, beans and pulses, through even a little payment, even so, great king, in the Blessed One's general shop they obtain successes taking them into account through even a small root of action. This, great king, is called 'the Blessed One's general shop'."

"In the Blessed One's city of Teaching, great king, such people dwell: experts in the discourses, experts in the discipline, experts in the abhidhamma, speakers on the Teaching, reciters of birth stories, reciters of long discourses, reciters of middle-length discourses, reciters of connected discourses, reciters of numerical discourses, reciters of minor texts, those accomplished in virtue, those accomplished in concentration, those accomplished in wisdom, those delighting in development of enlightenment factors, insight meditators, those devoted to their own good, forest dwellers, those living at the foot of trees, those living in the open air, those living on heaped straw, those living in charnel grounds, those who practise the sitting posture, those practising, those established in the fruits, those in training, those endowed with fruition, stream-enterers, once-returners, non-returners, arahants, those with the three true knowledges, those with the six direct knowledges, those with spiritual powers, those gone to perfection through wisdom, those skilled in the foundations of mindfulness, right strivings, bases for spiritual power, faculties, powers, enlightenment factors, the excellent path, meditative absorptions, deliverances, form, formless, peaceful, and attainments - the city of Teaching was crowded and completely crowded, filled and completely filled with these arahants, like a reed grove or a bamboo grove. Here it is -

"Those monks, great king, who possess boundless excellent knowledge, are unattached, of incomparable qualities, incomparable fame, incomparable strength, incomparable heat, who turn the wheel of the Teaching, who have gone to the perfection of wisdom, such monks, great king, are called 'generals of the Teaching' in the Blessed One's city of the Teaching."

"But those monks, great king, who possess spiritual power, who have attained analytical knowledge and grounds of self-confidence, who move through the sky, who are difficult to approach, difficult to overcome, who move without support, who can shake the earth with its oceans and mountains, who can touch and stroke the sun and moon, who are skilled in transformation, resolution and determination, who have gone to perfection in spiritual power, such monks, great king, are called 'chaplains' in the Blessed One's city of the Teaching."

"But those monks, great king, who follow the ascetic practices, have few wishes, are content, loathe begging and searching, go for alms food house by house like bees that having smelled the fragrance enter a secluded forest, are unconcerned with body and life, have attained Arahantship, and are foremost in the qualities of the ascetic practices, such monks, great king, are called 'judges' in the Blessed One's city of the Teaching."

"But those monks, great king, who are pure, stainless, free from defilements, skilled in passing away and rebirth, who have gone to perfection in the divine eye, such monks, great king, are called 'city illuminators' in the Blessed One's city of the Teaching."

"But those monks, great king, who are learned, who have mastered the tradition, who maintain the Teaching, the Discipline, and the Codes, who are skilled in distinguishing loose and aspirated sounds, long and short sounds, heavy and light sounds, and consonants, who maintain the nine-factored Dispensation, such monks, great king, are called 'guardians of the Teaching' in the Blessed One's city of the Teaching."

"But those monks, great king, who know the discipline, who are skilled in the discipline, who are skilled in what is proper and improper, who are skilled in offences and non-offences, heavy and light, curable and incurable, in emergence, confession, restraint, making amends, rehabilitation, expulsion and reinstatement, who have gone to perfection in the discipline, such monks, great king, are called 'guardians of form' in the Blessed One's city of the Teaching."

"But those monks, great king, who are bound with a garland of the excellent flowers of liberation, who have attained the highest, supreme, most valuable and best state, who are desired and longed for by the multitude, such monks, great king, are called 'flower sellers' in the Blessed One's city of the Teaching."

"But those monks, great king, who have penetrated the breakthrough of the four truths, have seen the truth, have understood the Teaching, are free from doubt about the four fruits of recluseship, have obtained the happiness of the fruit, and share those fruits with others who are practising, such monks, great king, are called 'fruit sellers' in the Blessed One's city of the Teaching."

"But those monks, great king, who are anointed with the odour of restraint through virtue, who possess many various good qualities, who dispel the foul smell of the stain of defilements, such monks, great king, are called 'perfume sellers' in the Blessed One's city of the Teaching."

"But those monks, great king, who love the Teaching, who speak kindly, who have lofty joy in the Higher Teaching and Higher Discipline, who drink the excellent taste of the Teaching whether gone to the forest, to the root of a tree, or to an empty dwelling, who are immersed in the excellent taste of the Teaching through body, speech and mind, who have abundant ingenuity, who are practising searching for teachings in the teachings, who go here and there wherever there is talk of few wishes, talk of contentment, talk of seclusion, talk of aloofness from society, talk of arousal of energy, talk of virtue, talk of concentration, talk of wisdom, talk of liberation, talk of knowledge and vision of liberation, and drink the taste of that talk, such monks, great king, are called 'drinkers thirsting' in the Blessed One's city of the Teaching."

"But those monks, great king, who are devoted to the pursuit of wakefulness in the first and last watches of the night, who spend day and night in sitting, standing and walking back and forth, who are devoted to the pursuit of development, intent on their own welfare in warding off defilements, such monks, great king, are called 'city guards' in the Blessed One's city of the Teaching."

"But those monks, great king, who teach and make others recite, speak and make others speak the nine-factored word of the Buddha in meaning, phrasing, method, reason, cause and example, such monks, great king, are called 'Teaching sellers' in the Blessed One's city of the Teaching."

"But those monks, great king, who are wealthy and rich with the wealth of the jewel of the Teaching, with the wealth of learning, tradition and what is heard, who are wise and pervading with penetration of the characteristics of meaning and phrasing that have been pointed out, such monks, great king, are called 'Teaching merchants' in the Blessed One's city of the Teaching."

"But those monks, great king, who have penetrated lofty teachings, who have mastered the analysis and exposition of objects of meditation, who have attained perfection in the qualities of training, such monks, great king, are called 'renowned Teaching experts' in the Blessed One's city of the Teaching."

"Even so, great king, the Blessed One's city of Teaching is thus well divided, thus well built, thus well arranged, thus well fulfilled, thus well established, thus well protected, thus well guarded, thus difficult to overcome by enemies and adversaries. By this reason, great king, by this cause, by this method, by this inference it should be known that the Blessed One exists."

"Great king, by a hundred such reasons, by a thousand reasons, by a hundred causes, by a thousand causes, by a hundred methods, by a thousand methods, by a hundred similes, by a thousand similes, it is possible to point out the power of the Buddha. Just as, great king, a skilled garland-maker would make a diverse mass of garland strings from a heap of various flowers through the teacher's instruction and his own personal effort, even so, great king, that Blessed One is like a heap of diverse flowers with endless qualities, immeasurable qualities, and I now, like a garland-maker, a flower-stringer in the Conqueror's Teaching, will illuminate the power of the Buddha through the path of previous teachers and through the power of my own understanding and through incalculable reasoning and inference. Generate desire here to listen."

"It is difficult, Venerable Nāgasena, for others to point out the power of the Buddha through such reasoning and inference. I am satisfied, Venerable Nāgasena, with your supremely diverse explanation of questions."

The First Question of Inference.

2.

The Question About Ascetic Practices

Then King Milinda approached the Venerable Nāgasena, and having approached, paid homage to the Venerable Nāgasena and sat down to one side. Seated to one side, King Milinda said this to the Venerable Nāgasena: "Venerable Nāgasena, is there any householder living at home, enjoying sensual pleasures, living in the confinement of wife and children, experiencing Kāsi sandalwood, wearing garlands, perfumes and ointments, accepting gold and silver, adorned with jewels, pearls, gold and decorated headdress who has realized that peaceful ultimate goal, Nibbāna?"

"No, great king, not just one hundred, not two hundred, not three, four, five hundred, not a thousand, not a hundred thousand, not a hundred million, not a thousand million, not a hundred thousand million. Let be, great king, the breakthrough of ten, twenty, a hundred, a thousand. By what method shall I give you the pursuit?"

"You tell me." "Then I will tell you, great king, whether by a hundred or a thousand or a hundred thousand or a million or a hundred million or a thousand million or a hundred thousand million, whatever discussions there are in the nine-limbed word of the Buddha based on the qualities of effacement, conduct, practice and excellent ascetic practices, all those will converge here. Just as, great king, water that has rained on areas of land that are low, high, even and uneven, all that having flowed from there converges in the great ocean, the sea, even so, great king, when there is one who can accomplish it, whatever discussions there are in the nine-limbed word of the Buddha based on the qualities of effacement, conduct, practice and ascetic practices, all those will converge here.

"Here too, great king, through the clarity of my understanding, the illumination of reasons will converge, thus this meaning will be well-divided, diverse, complete, pure and brought together. Just as, great king, a skilled writing teacher, when instructed and composing a text, completes the text through the clarity of his understanding and the illumination of reasons, thus that text will be complete, perfect and without deficiency. Even so here too through the clarity of my understanding, the illumination of reasons will converge, thus this meaning will be well-divided, diverse, complete, pure and brought together.

In the city of Sāvatthī, great king, there were about five million noble disciples who were the Blessed One's lay followers, and fifty-seven thousand three hundred thousand were established in the fruit of non-returning, all of these were householders, not gone forth. Again, right there at the root of the kaṇḍamba tree, during the twin wonder, twenty koṭis of living beings had a breakthrough, and again during the Lesser Discourse of Advice to Rāhula, during the Great Blessing Discourse, during the Analysis of Equal-mindedness, during the Discourse on Downfall, during the Discourse on Before the Break-up, during the Discourse on Quarrels and Disputes, during the Lesser Discourse on Classification, during the Greater Discourse on Classification, during the Discourse on Quick Development, during the Discourse to Sāriputta, the breakthrough to the Teaching by deities was beyond calculation.

In the city of Rājagaha there were fifty thousand and three hundred thousand noble disciples who were the Blessed One's lay followers, and again right there during the taming of Dhanapāla the bull elephant ninety koṭis of living beings, at the gathering of the Way to the Beyond at the Stone Shrine fourteen koṭis of living beings, again in the Indasāla Cave eighty koṭis of deities, again at the first teaching of the Teaching at the Deer Park in Isipatana near Bārāṇasī eighteen koṭis of Brahmās and countless deities, again in the Tāvatiṃsa existence on the Paṇḍukambala stone during the teaching of the Abhidhamma eighty koṭis of deities, and at the descent of the deities at the gate of Saṅkassa city during the wonder of the revealing of the worlds, thirty koṭis of humans and deities who were pleased had a breakthrough.

Again in Kapilavatthu among the Sakyans, at the Nigrodha monastery, during the teaching of the lineage of the Buddhas and during the teaching of the Great Assembly Discourse, the breakthrough to the Teaching by deities was beyond calculation. Again at the meeting with Sumana the garland-maker, at the meeting with Garahadinna, at the meeting with Anāthapiṇḍika the merchant, at the meeting with Jambuka the Ājīvaka, at the meeting with Maṇḍuka the young deity, at the meeting with Maṭṭhakuṇḍali the young deity, at the meeting with Sulasā the courtesan, at the meeting with Sirimā the courtesan, at the meeting with the weaver's daughter, at the meeting with Cūḷasubhaddā, at the meeting at the sight of the brahmin of Sāketa's funeral pyre, at the meeting in Sūnāparanta, at the meeting of Sakka's questions, at the meeting of those beyond walls, at the meeting of the Jewel Discourse, at each there was a breakthrough to the Teaching by eighty-four thousand living beings. Great king, as long as the Blessed One remained in the world, in the three regions, in the sixteen great countries, wherever the Blessed One dwelt, there in most places two, three, four, five, a hundred, a thousand, a hundred thousand deities and human beings realized that peaceful ultimate goal, Nibbāna. Those deities, great king, were just householders, not gone forth. These and many other hundreds of thousands of koṭis of deities, great king, who were householders living at home, enjoying sensual pleasures, realized that peaceful ultimate goal, Nibbāna."

"If, Venerable Nāgasena, householders living at home, enjoying sensual pleasures, realize that peaceful ultimate goal, Nibbāna, then what purpose do these ascetic practices serve? For that reason the ascetic practices are ineffective. "If, Venerable Nāgasena, afflictions subside without mantras and medicines, what is the use of weakening the body with emetics and purgatives and so forth? If enemies can be subdued with fists, what is the use of swords, spears, arrows, bows, clubs and hammers? If one can climb a tree by holding onto knots, curves, hollows, thorns, creepers and branches, what is the use of seeking a long strong ladder? If balance of elements comes from sleeping on the ground, what is the use of seeking a comfortable, grand, luxurious bed? If one alone is capable of crossing a dangerous wilderness full of fear and danger, what is the use of seeking a large well-armed and equipped caravan? If one is capable of crossing a river or lake with one's arms, what is the use of seeking a permanent bridge or boat? If one can provide food and clothing with what one has, what is the use of serving others, speaking pleasantly, and running before and after them? If one obtains water in an unexcavated pond, what is the use of digging wells, ponds and lotus pools? Even so, Venerable Nāgasena, if householders living at home, enjoying sensual pleasures, realize that peaceful ultimate goal, Nibbāna, what is the use of undertaking the excellent ascetic practices?"

"Great king, there are these twenty-eight genuine qualities of the ascetic practices, due to which qualities the ascetic practices are desired and longed for by all Buddhas. What are the twenty-eight? Here, great king, the ascetic practice has pure livelihood, pleasant fruit, is blameless, does not cause suffering to others, is fearless, non-oppressive, entirely beneficial, free from decline, free from deceit, protective, gives what is wished for, tames all beings, beneficial for restraint, suitable, independent, liberated, destroys lust, destroys hatred, destroys delusion, abandons conceit, cuts off wrong thoughts, crosses over perplexity, demolishes laziness, abandons discontent, is patient, incomparable, measureless, leads to the destruction of all suffering. These, great king, are the twenty-eight genuine qualities of the ascetic practices, due to which qualities the ascetic practices are desired and longed for by all Buddhas.

Those, great king, who properly pursue the qualities of austerity become endowed with eighteen qualities. With which eighteen? Their conduct is well purified, their practice is well fulfilled, their bodily and verbal actions are well guarded, their mental conduct is well purified, their energy is well exerted, their fear subsides, they are free from view of self, their resentment is stilled, their loving-kindness is established, their nutriment is fully understood, they are respected by all beings, they are moderate in eating, they are devoted to wakefulness, they are without a dwelling, they dwell wherever is comfortable, they are disgusted with evil, they delight in seclusion, they are constantly diligent. Those, great king, who properly pursue the qualities of austerity become endowed with these eighteen qualities.

"These ten individuals, great king, are worthy of the qualities of austerity. What are the ten? One has faith, has moral shame, has perseverance, is not deceitful, is purposeful, is not greedy, is desirous of training, has firm commitment, is not given to complaining, dwells in loving-kindness. These, great king, are the ten individuals worthy of the qualities of austerity.

Those householders, great king, living at home, enjoying sensual pleasures, who realize that peaceful ultimate goal, Nibbāna, all of them in previous births had practised and established the groundwork in the thirteen qualities of austerity. Having purified their conduct and practice there, now, while being just householders, they realize that peaceful ultimate goal, Nibbāna.

"Just as, great king, a skilled archer having first trained apprentices in the archery hall in breaking bows, mounting bows, grasping, pressing the fist, bending fingers, placing feet, grasping arrows, fastening, drawing, holding steady, aiming, shooting, hitting targets of grass, wooden men, clay, heaps of grass, straw and clay, and wooden boards, having satisfied the king with archery, obtains thoroughbred chariots, elephants, horses, wealth, grain, gold, silver, male and female slaves, wives and village grants, even so, great king, those householders living at home, enjoying sensual pleasures, who realize that peaceful ultimate goal, Nibbāna, all of them in previous births had practised and established the groundwork in the thirteen qualities of austerity. Having purified their conduct and practice right there, now, while being just householders, they realize that peaceful ultimate goal, Nibbāna. No, great king, there is no realization of Arahantship in a single birth without previous practice in the ascetic qualities, but realization of Arahantship comes about through supreme energy, supreme practice, such a teacher and good friend.

Moreover, great king, just as a physician and surgeon having satisfied a teacher with wealth or with dutiful practice, having trained in the procedures of grasping, cutting, incising, piercing, extracting arrows, washing wounds, drying, applying medicine, vomiting, purging and administering enemas, having completed training in the sciences, having practised, having mastered the skills, approaches patients for treatment, even so, great king, those householders living at home, enjoying sensual pleasures, who realize that peaceful ultimate goal, Nibbāna, all of them in previous births had practised and established the groundwork in the thirteen qualities of austerity. Having purified their conduct and practice right there, now, while being just householders, they realize that peaceful ultimate goal, Nibbāna. There is no breakthrough to the Teaching, great king, for those who are not purified through the ascetic qualities.

"Just as, great king, without sprinkling with water there is no growing of seeds, even so, great king, for those who are not purified through the ascetic qualities there is no breakthrough to the Teaching.

"Moreover, great king, just as for those who have not done wholesome deeds, who have not done good, there is no going to a good destination, even so, great king, for those who are not purified through the ascetic qualities there is no breakthrough to the Teaching.

"Great king, the ascetic quality is like the earth for those desiring purification in the sense of being a support. Great king, the ascetic quality is like water for those desiring purification in the sense of washing away all stains of defilements. Great king, the ascetic quality is like fire for those desiring purification in the sense of burning up all the forest of defilements. Great king, the ascetic quality is like air for those desiring purification in the sense of carrying away all dust and stains of defilements. Great king, the ascetic quality is like medicine for those desiring purification in the sense of calming all diseases of defilements. Great king, the ascetic quality is like the Deathless for those desiring purification in the sense of destroying all poison of defilements. Great king, the ascetic quality is like a field for those desiring purification in the sense of growing the crop of all qualities of asceticism. Great king, the ascetic quality is like a wish-fulfilling gem for those desiring purification in the sense of granting all desired and wished for successes. Great king, the ascetic quality is like a boat for those desiring purification in the sense of going to the far shore of the great ocean of the round of rebirths. Great king, the ascetic quality is like a refuge for the fearful for those desiring purification in the sense of giving comfort to those afraid of aging and death. Great king, the ascetic quality is like a mother for those desiring purification in the sense of supporting those oppressed by the suffering of defilements. Great king, the ascetic quality is like a father for those desiring purification in the sense of generating all qualities of asceticism for those wishing to increase wholesome states. Great king, the ascetic quality is like a friend for those desiring purification in the sense of not disappointing in the search for all qualities of asceticism. Great king, the ascetic quality is like a lotus for those desiring purification in the sense of being unstained by all stains of defilements. Great king, the ascetic quality is like the four excellent fragrances for those desiring purification in the sense of removing the foul smell of defilements. Great king, the ascetic quality is like the excellent king of mountains for those desiring purification in the sense of being unshaken by the winds of the eight worldly conditions. Great king, the ascetic quality is like space for those desiring purification in the sense of being vast, extensive and great, free from grasping everywhere. Great king, the ascetic quality is like a river for those desiring purification in the sense of carrying away the stains of defilements. Great king, the ascetic quality is like a good guide for those desiring purification in the sense of crossing over the wilderness of birth and the dense forest of defilements. Great king, the ascetic quality is like a great caravan leader for those desiring purification in the sense of bringing to the excellent supreme city of Nibbāna that is empty of all fear and secure from fear. Great king, the ascetic quality is like a well-polished stainless mirror for those desiring purification in the sense of seeing the true nature of formations. Great king, the ascetic quality is like a shield for those desiring purification in the sense of warding off clubs, arrows and spears of defilements. Great king, the ascetic quality is like a parasol for those desiring purification in the sense of warding off the rain of defilements and the torment of the threefold fire and heat. Great king, the ascetic quality is like the moon for those desiring purification in the sense of being desired and wished for. Great king, the ascetic quality is like the sun for those desiring purification in the sense of destroying the darkness and gloom of delusion. Great king, the ascetic quality is like the ocean for those desiring purification in the sense of being the source of various excellent jewels of qualities of asceticism, and in the sense of being unlimited, incalculable and immeasurable. Thus indeed, great king, the ascetic quality is of great benefit for those desiring purification, removing all distress and fever, removing discontent, removing fear, removing existence, removing barrenness, removing stains, removing sorrow, removing suffering, removing lust, removing hatred, removing delusion, removing conceit, removing views, removing all unwholesome states, bringing fame, bringing welfare, bringing happiness, making comfort, making joy, making security from bondage, faultless, having pleasant results, a mass and heap of qualities, of unlimited, incalculable, immeasurable qualities, excellent, supreme, foremost.

"Just as, great king, people resort to food for the sake of support, resort to medicine for the sake of welfare, resort to friends for the sake of help, resort to a boat for the sake of crossing over, resort to garlands and fragrances for the sake of good smell, resort to a refuge for the fearful for the sake of safety, resort to the earth for the sake of support, resort to a teacher for the sake of skills, resort to a king for the sake of fame, resort to a jewel-gem for the sake of granting wishes, even so, great king, noble ones resort to the ascetic quality for the sake of granting all qualities of asceticism.

"Moreover, great king, just as water is for making seeds grow, fire is for burning, food is for bringing strength, creepers are for binding, weapons are for cutting, drinking water is for removing thirst, treasure is for making comfort, a boat is for reaching the shore, medicine is for calming disease, a vehicle is for going comfortably, a refuge for the fearful is for dispelling fear, a king is for protection, a shield is for warding off sticks, clods, balls, arrows and spears, a teacher is for instruction, a mother is for nurturing, a mirror is for looking, ornaments are for beautifying, clothes are for covering, a ladder is for climbing, scales are for preventing unevenness, a mantra is for reciting, weapons are for warding off threats, a lamp is for dispelling darkness, wind is for extinguishing fever, skills are for producing livelihood, medicine is for protecting life, a mine is for producing jewels, a jewel is for adorning, authority is for not transgressing, sovereignty is for exercising control, even so, great king, the ascetic quality is for making the seeds of asceticism grow, for burning the stains of defilements, for bringing the power of spiritual power, for binding the restraint of mindfulness, for cutting off uncertainty and doubt, for removing the thirst of craving, for making comfort through breakthrough, for crossing over the four floods, for calming the disease of defilements, for obtaining the happiness of Nibbāna, for dispelling the fear of birth, aging, sickness, death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair, for protecting the qualities of asceticism, for warding off discontent and wrong thoughts, for instructing in all matters of asceticism, for nurturing all qualities of asceticism, for seeing serenity, insight, path, fruition and Nibbāna, for making the great splendor praised and extolled by the whole world, for closing all states of misery, for climbing to the peak of the mountain of the goal of asceticism, for preventing the wandering of crooked, bent and unrighteous mind, for making proper recitation of things to be practised and not to be practised, for threatening all defilements as enemies, for dispelling the darkness of ignorance, for extinguishing the fever and torment of the three fires, for producing fine, subtle, peaceful attainments, for protecting all qualities of asceticism, for producing the excellent jewels of the enlightenment factors, for adorning spiritual practitioners, for not transgressing faultless, precise, subtle, peaceful happiness, for exercising control over all ascetic noble qualities." Great king, for the achievement of these qualities, that is each ascetic quality, thus, great king, the ascetic quality is incomparable, immeasurable, unequaled, unmatched, without parallel, unsurpassed, superior, excellent, distinguished, surpassing, extended, broad, diffused, expansive, weighty, momentous, great.

"Great king, when a person who has evil desires, overcome by desire, deceitful, greedy, gluttonous, desirous of gain, desirous of fame, desirous of renown, unsuited, unattained, inappropriate, unworthy, unfitting, undertakes the ascetic practices, they incur a double punishment and destroy all good qualities. In this very life, they receive contempt, mockery, blame, ridicule, rejection, exclusion, expulsion, banishment, removal and exile. And in the future life, in the great hell of Avīci extending a hundred yojanas, blazing and burning with flames, they are tormented for many hundreds of thousands of kotis of years, turning up and down and across, boiling with foam. Released from there, with lean and rough limbs, black in colour, with a swollen and hollow head, hungry and thirsty, with an awful and frightful appearance, with broken ears and eyes that open and close, with festering and rotting body, with the whole body covered in maggots, burning like a mass of fire in the wind, burning and blazing within, without protection or refuge, wailing with cries of misery and lamentation, they become a great ghost-ascetic consumed by burning craving, wandering and making sorrowful sounds on the earth."

"Just as, great king, if someone unsuited, unattained, inappropriate, unworthy, unfitting, low, of inferior birth, were to be anointed with the royal anointing of a noble, they would receive cutting off of hands, cutting off of feet, cutting off of hands and feet, cutting off of ears, cutting off of nose, cutting off of ears and nose, the pot of gruel, the polished-shell tonsure, Rāhu's mouth, the fiery garland, the hand torch, the bark dress, the antelope dress, the fish-hook meat, the coin, the lye pickling, the pivot on a bolt, the straw seat, pouring over with hot oil, being devoured by dogs, impaling alive, beheading with a sword, and experience many other kinds of torture. For what reason? One who is unsuited, unattained, inappropriate, unworthy, unfitting, low, of inferior birth placed himself in a position of great authority, destroyed the boundary, even so, great king, whatever person has evil desires...etc... makes a cry of distress on the earth.

"But, great king, when a person who is suited, attained, appropriate, worthy, fitting, having few wishes, content, secluded, unattached, energetic, resolute, not deceitful, not crafty, not gluttonous, not desirous of gain, not desirous of fame, not desirous of renown, faithful, gone forth through faith, wishing to be released from aging and death, undertakes the ascetic practices thinking 'I will uphold the Teaching', they deserve double veneration and become dear, agreeable, longed for and desired by deities, like the flower of jasmine, sumana and mallika for one who has bathed and anointed, like excellent food for one who is hungry, like cool, pure, fragrant drinking water for one who is thirsty, like excellent medicine for one who is poisoned, like an excellent supreme chariot drawn by thoroughbreds for one who wishes to go quickly, like a captivating jewel-gem for one who desires benefit, like a pure, stainless white parasol for one who wishes to be anointed, like the unsurpassed attainment of the fruit of Arahantship for one who desires the Teaching. For them, the four foundations of mindfulness go to fulfilment of development, the four right strivings, the four bases for spiritual power, the five faculties, the five powers, the seven enlightenment factors, the Noble Eightfold Path go to fulfilment of development, serenity and insight are attained, the practice of attainment matures, the four fruits of the ascetic life, the four analytical knowledges, the three true knowledges, the six direct knowledges and the complete Teaching of the ascetic all come under their authority, they are anointed with the pure, stainless white parasol of liberation.

"Just as, great king, soldiers and troops from their own country, towns and countryside, the thirty-eight members of the royal assembly, dancers and performers, those who speak blessings, those who speak good fortune, ascetics and brahmins and all sectarian groups attend upon a warrior king of noble birth from a noble family who has been anointed with the warrior anointing, and they become master everywhere over whatever there is on earth - ports, mines, cities, customs stations, border duties, fines, administration of people - even so, great king, whatever person is suited, attained...etc... is crowned with the pure white spotless parasol of liberation.

"Great king, these are the thirteen ascetic practices through which one who is purified, having entered the great ocean of Nibbāna, plays various games with the Teaching, makes use of the eight attainments of form and formlessness, and attains the various kinds of spiritual power, the divine ear element, knowledge of others' minds, recollection of past lives, the divine eye, and the destruction of all taints. What are the thirteen? The practice of wearing rag-robes, the practice of three robes, the practice of almsfood, the practice of house-to-house alms round, the practice of one sitting, the practice of eating from the bowl, the practice of refusing later food, the practice of dwelling in the forest, the practice of dwelling at the foot of a tree, the practice of dwelling in the open air, the practice of dwelling in a charnel ground, the practice of being content with any lodging, the practice of never lying down - great king, through these thirteen ascetic qualities previously practised, pursued, undertaken, well undertaken, lived, well lived and fulfilled, one obtains complete asceticism, and the complete peaceful happy attainments are in one's power.

"Just as, great king, a wealthy ship-owner having properly paid customs duties at the port, having entered the great ocean, goes to Bengal, Takkola, China, Sovīra, Suraṭṭha, Alexandria, Kolapaṭṭana, and the Land of Gold, and wherever else ships can travel, even so, great king, through these thirteen ascetic qualities previously practised, pursued, undertaken, well undertaken, lived, well lived and fulfilled, one obtains complete asceticism, and the complete peaceful happy attainments are in one's power.

"Just as, great king, a farmer having first removed the faults of the field - grass, sticks and stones - having ploughed and sown, having properly let in water, having protected and guarded, through reaping and threshing becomes rich in grain, and poor, wretched, destitute and miserable people are in his power, even so, great king, through these thirteen ascetic qualities previously practised...etc... complete peaceful happy attainments.

"Moreover, great king, just as a consecrated warrior of noble birth from a noble family is sovereign, master, owner, doing as he wishes in administering fines and duties to people, and the whole great earth is in his power, even so, great king, through these thirteen ascetic qualities previously practised, pursued, undertaken, well undertaken, lived, well lived and fulfilled, one is sovereign, master, owner, doing as he wishes in the excellent Teaching of the Conqueror, and all ascetic qualities are in his power.

Did not, great king, the Elder Upasena Vaṅgantaputta, disregarding the Community's rule in Sāvatthī because of his fulfilment of the qualities of effacement and austerity, approach with his company the trainer of tameable persons who was in seclusion, and having paid homage with his head at the Blessed One's feet, sit to one side, and the Blessed One, having looked at that well-disciplined assembly, joyful, pleased, delighted and elated, having conversed with the assembly, said this with an unbroken divine voice: "Upasena, this assembly of yours is indeed inspiring. How do you train your assembly?" And he too, being asked by the omniscient one of ten powers, the deity above deities, said this to the Blessed One according to the nature of qualities as they really are -

"Venerable Sir, whoever approaches me requesting going forth or dependence, I say this to him: 'Friend, I am a forest-dweller, one who lives on almsfood, one who wears rag-robes, one who uses only three robes. "If you too will be a forest-dweller, one who lives on almsfood, one who wears rag-robes, one who uses only three robes, then I will give you going forth and give you dependence." Venerable Sir, if having promised me he rejoices and desists, then I give him going forth and give him dependence, if he does not rejoice and does not desist, I do not give him going forth, I do not give him dependence. Thus, Venerable Sir, I train the assembly." Thus indeed, great king, one who has undertaken the excellent ascetic qualities is sovereign in the excellent Teaching of the Conqueror. One is master, owner, doing as one wishes, and the complete peaceful happy attainments are in one's power.

"Just as, great king, a lotus that is grown and pure, of noble birth and origin, smooth, soft, attractive, fragrant, dear, desired, praised, unstained by water and mud, adorned with fine petals, filaments and pericarp, frequented by swarms of bees, nourished by cool water, even so, great king, through these thirteen ascetic qualities previously practised, pursued, undertaken, well undertaken, lived, well lived and fulfilled, the noble disciple is endowed with thirty excellent qualities.

"With which thirty excellent qualities? One has a mind that is smooth, soft, gentle and loving-kind, one has destroyed, eliminated and removed defilements, one is humble with destroyed and eliminated conceit, one has unshakeable, firm, established and doubtless faith, one gains complete, fulfilled, delighted, attractive, peaceful and happy attainments, one is perfumed with the excellent, supreme, incomparable, pure fragrance of virtue, one is dear and agreeable to deities and human beings, one is desired by noble persons with taints destroyed, one is venerated and worshipped by deities and human beings, one is extolled, praised, acclaimed and commended by the wise, enlightened and learned people, one is unstained by the world here or beyond, one sees fear in even the slightest fault, one accomplishes the excellent goal of path and fruition for those desiring extensive supreme success, one receives requested extensive excellent requisites, one sleeps without a home, one dwells absorbed in the excellent supreme meditation, one has unravelled the net of defilements, one has broken, shattered, crushed and cut off the hindrances to destiny, one has unshakeable qualities, one has reached the final dwelling, one partakes of blameless gains, one is liberated from destinations, one has crossed over all doubt, one is established in the goal of liberation, one has seen the Teaching, one has reached unshakeable, firm, strong protection, one has cut off the underlying tendencies, one has reached the destruction of all taints, one abundantly dwells in peaceful and happy attainments, one is endowed with all ascetic qualities - one is endowed with these thirty excellent qualities.

Did not, great king, the elder Sāriputta, the foremost person in ten thousand world systems except for the ten-powered teacher of the world, who had accumulated roots of wholesomeness for an immeasurable incalculable aeon, who was of noble brahmin family, having abandoned agreeable sensual pleasures and excellent wealth worth many hundreds, having gone forth in the Conqueror's Dispensation, having tamed body, speech and mind with these thirteen ascetic qualities, now become endowed with infinite qualities and one who helps turn the wheel of the Teaching in the excellent Dispensation of the Blessed One Gotama. This was spoken by the Blessed One, the deity above deities, in the excellent Gradual Discourses -

"Monks, I do not see any other single individual who so rightly keeps in motion the unsurpassed wheel of Teaching set in motion by the Truth Finder as this: Sāriputta, Sāriputta. "Monks, he rightly keeps in motion the unsurpassed wheel of Teaching set in motion by the Truth Finder."

"Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, whatever nine-factored word of the Buddha, whatever supramundane action, and whatever excellent and abundant achievements of attainment in the world, all that is included in the thirteen ascetic qualities."

The Question about Ascetic Practices, second.

The Chapter of Inference, fourth.

6.

The Question About Similes

The Matrix

"Venerable Nāgasena, possessing how many factors does a monk realize Arahantship?"

"Here, great king, by a monk wishing to realize Arahantship -

One factor of a donkey should be taken.

Five factors of a rooster should be taken.

One factor of a squirrel should be taken.

One factor of a female leopard should be taken.

Two factors of a male leopard should be taken.

Five factors of a tortoise should be taken.

One factor of bamboo should be taken.

One factor of a bow should be taken.

Two factors of a crow should be taken.

Two factors of a monkey should be taken.

The First Chapter about the Donkey.

One factor of a gourd creeper should be taken.

Three factors of a lotus should be taken.

Two factors of a seed should be taken.

One factor of a beautiful sal tree should be taken.

Three factors of a ship should be taken.

Two factors of a ship's anchor should be taken.

One factor of a mast should be taken.

Three factors of a helmsman should be taken.

One factor of a worker should be taken.

Five factors of the ocean should be taken.

The Second Chapter on the Ocean.

Five factors of earth should be taken.

Five factors of water should be taken.

Five factors of fire should be taken.

Five factors of air should be taken.

Five factors of a mountain should be taken.

Five factors of space should be taken.

Five factors of the moon should be taken.

Seven factors of the sun should be taken.

Three factors of Sakka should be taken.

Four factors of a wheel-turning monarch should be taken.

The Third Chapter on Earth.

One factor of a termite should be taken.

Two factors of a cat should be taken.

One factor of a rat should be taken.

One factor of a scorpion should be taken.

One factor of a mongoose should be taken.

Two factors of an old jackal should be taken.

Three factors of a deer should be taken.

Four factors of cattle should be taken.

Two factors of a boar should be taken.

Five factors of an elephant should be taken.

The Chapter on Termite is Fourth.

Seven factors of a lion should be taken.

Three factors of a ruddy goose should be taken.

Two factors of a female snake should be taken.

One factor of a house pigeon should be taken.

Two factors of an owl should be taken.

One factor of a centipede should be taken.

Two factors of a bat should be taken.

One factor of a leech should be taken.

Three factors of a snake should be taken.

One factor of a python should be taken.

The chapter on the lion, the fifth.

One factor of a road spider should be taken.

One factor of a suckling baby should be taken.

One factor of a spotted tortoise should be taken.

Five factors of the wilds should be taken.

Three factors of a tree should be taken.

Five factors of a cloud should be taken.

Three factors of a precious gem should be taken.

Four factors of a deer-hunter should be taken.

Two factors of a fisherman should be taken.

Two factors of a carpenter should be taken.

The Chapter of the Monkey is Sixth.

One factor of a pot should be taken.

Two factors of black iron should be taken.

Three factors of a parasol should be taken.

Three factors of a field should be taken.

Two factors of medicine should be taken.

Three factors of food should be taken.

Four factors of an archer should be taken.

The Chapter on the Pot is the seventh.

Four factors of a king should be taken.

Two factors of a gatekeeper should be taken.

One factor of a grindstone should be taken.

Two factors of a lamp should be taken.

Two factors of a peacock should be taken.

Two factors of a horse should be taken.

Two factors of a distiller should be taken.

Two factors of a threshold should be taken.

One factor of a balance should be taken.

Two factors of a sword should be taken.

Two factors of a fish should be taken.

One factor of a debt collector should be taken.

Two factors of a sick person should be taken.

Two factors of a dead person should be taken.

Two factors of a river should be taken.

One factor of a bull should be taken.

Two factors of a path should be taken.

One factor of a tax collector should be taken.

Three factors of a thief should be taken.

One factor of a hawk should be taken.

One factor of a dog should be taken.

Three factors of a physician should be taken.

Two factors of a pregnant woman should be taken.

One factor of a yak should be taken.

Two factors of a partridge should be taken.

Three factors of a female pigeon should be taken.

Two factors of a one-eyed person should be taken.

Three factors of a farmer should be taken.

One factor of a female jackal should be taken.

Two factors of a sieve should be taken.

One factor of a ladle should be taken.

Three factors of a debt collector should be taken.

One factor of an investigator should be taken.

Two factors of a charioteer should be taken.

Two factors of a feeder should be taken.

One factor of a tailor should be taken.

One factor of a sailor should be taken.

Two factors of a bee should be taken.

The Matrix is concluded.

1.

The Chapter on the Donkey

1.

The Question About the Factor of the Donkey

1. "Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'one factor of a donkey should be taken', which one factor should be taken?" "Just as, great king, a donkey sleeps anywhere, whether on a rubbish heap, at a crossroads, at a junction, at a village gate, or on a heap of chaff, and is not one who sleeps much, even so, great king, a spiritual practitioner engaged in practice should sleep anywhere, whether on grass bedding, leaf bedding, a wooden bed, or on the ground, having spread a piece of leather anywhere, and should not be one who sleeps much. This, great king, is one factor of a donkey that should be taken. This was spoken by the Blessed One, the deity above deities: 'Monks, at present my disciples dwell using wooden blocks as pillows, diligent, ardent in striving.' This too was said by the Elder Sāriputta, the general of the Teaching -

The First Question About the Factor of the Donkey.

2.

The Question About the Factor of the Rooster

2. "Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'Five factors of a rooster should be taken', which five factors should be taken?" "Just as, great king, a rooster retires at the proper time, even so, great king, a spiritual practitioner engaged in practice should at the proper time sweep the shrine courtyard, set up drinking and washing water, take care of the body, bathe, pay homage to the shrine, go to see elder monks, and at the proper time enter an empty dwelling. This, great king, is the first factor of a rooster that should be taken.

"Furthermore, great king, a rooster rises at the proper time. Even so, great king, a spiritual practitioner engaged in practice having risen at the proper time, having swept the shrine courtyard, having set up drinking and washing water, having taken care of the body, having paid homage to the shrine, should again enter an empty dwelling. This, great king, is the second factor of a rooster that should be taken.

Furthermore, great king, a rooster having scratched and scratched the earth, swallows food. Even so, great king, a spiritual practitioner engaged in practice should reflect again and again before eating: "neither for amusement, nor for vanity, nor for adornment, nor for beautification, but just for the maintenance and sustenance of this body, for avoiding harm, for supporting the holy life, thinking: 'Thus I shall terminate old feelings without arousing new feelings, and I shall have blamelessness and dwelling in comfort'." This, great king, is the third factor of a rooster that should be taken. This was spoken by the Blessed One, the deity above deities -

"Furthermore, great king, a rooster, though having eyes, is blind at night. Even so, great king, a spiritual practitioner engaged in practice should be like one who is not blind being like a blind person, and when walking for alms in a resort village in the forest, should be like a blind, deaf and dumb person regarding forms, sounds, odours, tastes and tactile objects that are enticing, should not grasp signs, should not grasp features. This, great king, is the fourth factor of a rooster that should be taken. This too was said, great king, by the Elder Mahākaccāyana -

"Furthermore, great king, a rooster, even when being struck by clods, sticks, stones and hammers, does not abandon its own home. Even so, great king, a spiritual practitioner engaged in practice should not abandon careful attention whether making robes, doing new work, performing duties and services, reciting or having others recite. This, great king, is a spiritual practitioner's own home, that is, careful attention. This, great king, is the fifth factor of a rooster that should be taken. This was spoken by the Blessed One, the deity above deities: "And what, monks, is a monk's resort, his ancestral domain? That is, the four foundations of mindfulness." This too was said by the Elder Sāriputta, the general of the Teaching -

The Question About the Factor of the Rooster is second.

3.

The Question About the Factor of the Squirrel

3. "Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'one factor of a squirrel should be taken', which one factor should be taken?" "Just as, great king, when an enemy approaches, a squirrel having fluffed up its tail making it large, wards off the enemy with that very ball of tail, even so, great king, when the enemy of defilements approaches, a spiritual practitioner engaged in practice having fluffed up the ball of the foundations of mindfulness making it large, should ward off all defilements with that very ball of the foundations of mindfulness. This, great king, is one factor of a squirrel that should be taken. This too was said, great king, by the Elder Cūḷapanthaka -

The Question About the Factor of the Squirrel is Third.

4.

The Question About the Factor of the Female Leopard

4. "Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'one factor of a female leopard should be taken', which one factor should be taken?" "Just as, great king, a female leopard conceives only once and does not approach a male again, Even so, great king, a spiritual practitioner engaged in practice, having seen future relinking, rebirth, lying in the womb, passing away, breaking up, destruction, ruin, the fear of the round of rebirths, bad destination, unrighteousness, oppression, should make careful attention thinking 'I will not relink in renewed existence'. This, great king, is one factor of a female leopard that should be taken. This was spoken by the Blessed One, the deity above deities, in the Discourse to Dhaniya the Cowherd in the Collection of Discourses -

The Question About the Factors of the Female Leopard is fourth.

5.

The Question About the Factor of the Male Leopard

5. "Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'Two factors of a male leopard should be taken', which two factors should be taken?" "Just as, great king, a leopard having hidden in the forest depending on dense grass or dense woods or dense mountains catches deer, even so, great king, a spiritual practitioner engaged in practice should resort to seclusion: a forest, the root of a tree, a mountain, a ravine, a hillside cave, a charnel ground, a jungle thicket, an open space, a heap of straw, a place with little sound, little noise, with solitary breeze, secluded from people, suitable for retreat; for, great king, a spiritual practitioner engaged in practice resorting to seclusion before long attains mastery in the six direct knowledges. This, great king, is the first factor of a leopard that should be taken. This too was spoken by the elder compilers of the Teaching: