5.
The Shorter Discourse to Saccaka
353. Thus have I heard - On one occasion the Blessed One was dwelling at Vesālī in the Great Wood in the Pinnacled Hall. Now at that time Saccaka, the son of a Jain, was dwelling at Vesālī, a debater, one who claimed to be wise, highly honoured by many people. He spoke thus in the assembly at Vesālī - "I do not see any ascetic or brahmin, one who has a following, who has a group, who is a teacher of a group, even one claiming to be a Worthy One, a One Enlightened by himself, who, having engaged in debate with me, would not tremble, would not shake, would not quake, from whose armpits sweat would not pour forth. Even if I were to engage in debate with a senseless post, that post, having been engaged in debate by me, would tremble, would shake, would quake. What then to say of a human being?"
Then the Venerable Assaji, having dressed in the earlier period of the day, taking his bowl and robe, entered Vesālī for almsfood. Saccaka, the son of a Jain, walking up and down for leg exercise at Vesālī, wandering about, saw the Venerable Assaji coming from afar. Having seen him, he approached the Venerable Assaji; having approached, he exchanged friendly greetings with the Venerable Assaji. Having concluded the pleasant and memorable talk, he stood to one side. Standing to one side, Saccaka, the son of a Jain, said this to the Venerable Assaji - "But how, friend Assaji, does the ascetic Gotama train disciples, and what kind of instruction from the ascetic Gotama is frequently given to his disciples?" "Thus indeed, Aggivessana, the Blessed One trains disciples, and this kind of instruction from the Blessed One is frequently given to his disciples - 'Materiality, monks, is impermanent, feeling is impermanent, perception is impermanent, activities are impermanent, consciousness is impermanent. Materiality, monks, is non-self, feeling is non-self, perception is non-self, activities are non-self, consciousness is non-self. All activities are impermanent, all phenomena are non-self.' Thus indeed, Aggivessana, the Blessed One trains disciples, and this kind of instruction from the Blessed One is frequently given to his disciples." "Indeed, friend Assaji, we have heard something unfit to hear, that we have heard the ascetic Gotama speaks thus. Perhaps we might at some time or other meet together with that Master Gotama, perhaps there might be some friendly conversation, perhaps we might dissuade him from that evil wrong view."
354. Now at that time about five hundred Licchavis were assembled in the assembly hall on some business. Then Saccaka, the son of a Jain, approached those Licchavis; having approached, he said this to those Licchavis - "Let the venerable Licchavis come forth, let the venerable Licchavis come forth, today I will have a friendly conversation with the ascetic Gotama. If the ascetic Gotama takes a stand with me as a certain well-known disciple, the monk named Assaji, took a stand with me, just as a strong man might seize a long-haired ram by the hair and drag it towards him, drag it away, and drag it back and forth, just so I will drag the ascetic Gotama back and forth in debate. Just as a strong brewer's workman, having thrown a large brewer's straining basket into a deep water pool, might seize it by the corners and drag it towards him, drag it away, and drag it back and forth, just so I will drag the ascetic Gotama back and forth in debate. Just as a strong brewer's mixer, having seized a strainer by the corners, might shake it down, shake it up, and beat it out, just so I will shake down, shake up, and beat out the ascetic Gotama in debate. Just as a sixty-year-old elephant, having plunged into a deep pond, plays the game called hemp-washing, just so I, methinks, will play the game of hemp-washing with the ascetic Gotama. Let the venerable Licchavis come forth, let the venerable Licchavis come forth, today I will have a friendly conversation with the ascetic Gotama." Thereupon some Licchavis said thus - "Will the ascetic Gotama refute Saccaka, the son of a Jain, or will Saccaka, the son of a Jain, refute the ascetic Gotama?" Some Licchavis said thus - "What manner of being is this Saccaka, the son of a Jain, that he will refute the Blessed One? Rather, the Blessed One will refute Saccaka, the son of a Jain." Then Saccaka, the son of a Jain, surrounded by about five hundred Licchavis, approached the Great Wood, to the Pinnacled Hall.
355. Now at that time several monks were walking up and down in the open air. Then Saccaka, the son of a Jain, approached those monks; having approached, he said this to those monks - "Where, good sirs, is that Master Gotama dwelling now? For we wish to see that Master Gotama." "This, Aggivessana, is the Blessed One, having plunged into the Great Wood, seated for the day's abiding at the foot of a certain tree." Then Saccaka, the son of a Jain, together with a great assembly of Licchavis, having plunged into the Great Wood, approached the Blessed One; having approached, he exchanged friendly greetings with the Blessed One. Having concluded the pleasant and memorable talk, he sat down to one side. Those Licchavis too, some having paid respect to the Blessed One, sat down to one side; some exchanged friendly greetings with the Blessed One, and having concluded the pleasant and memorable talk, sat down to one side. Some, having extended joined palms in salutation towards the Blessed One, sat down to one side; some, having announced their name and clan in the presence of the Blessed One, sat down to one side; some, remaining silent, sat down to one side.
356. Seated to one side, Saccaka, the son of a Jain, said this to the Blessed One - "I would ask Master Gotama a certain point, if Master Gotama gives me permission for the answering of a question." "Ask, Aggivessana, whatever you wish." "But how does Master Gotama train disciples, and what kind of instruction from Master Gotama is frequently given to his disciples?" "Thus indeed, Aggivessana, I train disciples, and this kind of instruction from me is frequently given to my disciples - 'Materiality, monks, is impermanent, feeling is impermanent, perception is impermanent, activities are impermanent, consciousness is impermanent. Materiality, monks, is non-self, feeling is non-self, perception is non-self, activities are non-self, consciousness is non-self. All activities are impermanent, all phenomena are non-self.' Thus indeed, Aggivessana, I train disciples, and this kind of instruction from me is frequently given to my disciples."
"A simile occurs to me, Master Gotama." "Let it occur to you, Aggivessana," said the Blessed One.
"Just as, Master Gotama, whatever seed-plants and growing plants attain growth, increase, and expansion, all of them do so in dependence on earth, established upon earth. Thus these seed-plants and growing plants attain growth, increase, and expansion. Or just as, Master Gotama, whatever activities requiring strength are done, all of them are done in dependence on earth, established upon earth. Thus these activities requiring strength are done. Just so indeed, Master Gotama, a male person whose self is materiality, established upon materiality, generates merit or demerit; a male person whose self is feeling, established upon feeling, generates merit or demerit; a male person whose self is perception, established upon perception, generates merit or demerit; a male person whose self is activities, established upon activities, generates merit or demerit; a male person whose self is consciousness, established upon consciousness, generates merit or demerit."
"Do you not, Aggivessana, speak thus - 'Materiality is my self, feeling is my self, perception is my self, activities are my self, consciousness is my self'?" "Indeed, Master Gotama, I speak thus - 'Materiality is my self, feeling is my self, perception is my self, activities are my self, consciousness is my self,' and so does this great populace."
"What will this great populace do for you, Aggivessana? Come now, Aggivessana, unravel your own doctrine." "Indeed, Master Gotama, I speak thus - 'Materiality is my self, feeling is my self, perception is my self, activities are my self, consciousness is my self.'"
357. "If so, Aggivessana, I will ask you a question about this very matter. As it pleases you, so you should answer it. What do you think, Aggivessana, would a noble king, anointed on the head, have authority in his own kingdom - to execute those who deserve execution, to fine those who deserve fining, to banish those who deserve banishment, just as King Pasenadi of Kosala, or just as King Ajātasattu Vedehiputta of Magadha?" "He would have authority, Master Gotama, a noble king, anointed on the head, in his own kingdom - to execute those who deserve execution, to fine those who deserve fining, to banish those who deserve banishment, just as King Pasenadi of Kosala, or just as King Ajātasattu Vedehiputta of Magadha. For indeed, Master Gotama, even these communities and groups - as follows, the Vajjis and the Mallas - have authority in their own kingdoms - to execute those who deserve execution, to fine those who deserve fining, to banish those who deserve banishment. How much more then a noble king, anointed on the head, just as King Pasenadi of Kosala, or just as King Ajātasattu Vedehiputta of Magadha? He would have authority, Master Gotama, and he deserves to have authority."
"What do you think, Aggivessana, when you speak thus - 'Materiality is my self,' do you have authority over that materiality - 'Let my materiality be thus, let my materiality not be thus'?" When this was said, Saccaka, the son of a Jain, remained silent. For the second time the Blessed One said this to Saccaka, the son of a Jain - "What do you think, Aggivessana, when you speak thus - 'Materiality is my self,' do you have authority over that materiality - 'Let my materiality be thus, let my materiality not be thus'?" For the second time Saccaka, the son of a Jain, remained silent. Then the Blessed One said this to Saccaka, the son of a Jain - "Answer now, Aggivessana, now is not the time for your silence. Whoever, Aggivessana, when asked a reasonable question by the Truth-finder up to the third time does not answer, right here his head will split into seven pieces."
Now at that time the demon Vajirapāṇī, having taken up an iron thunderbolt, blazing, in flames, aglow, stood in the sky above Saccaka, the son of a Jain - 'If this Saccaka, the son of a Jain, when asked a reasonable question by the Blessed One up to the third time, does not answer, right here I will split his head into seven pieces.' Now both the Blessed One and Saccaka, the son of a Jain, saw that demon Vajirapāṇī. Then Saccaka, the son of a Jain, frightened, agitated, with hair standing on end, sought shelter in the Blessed One himself, sought a rock cell in the Blessed One himself, sought refuge in the Blessed One himself, and said this to the Blessed One - "Let Master Gotama ask me, I will answer."
358. "What do you think, Aggivessana, when you speak thus - 'Materiality is my self,' do you have authority over that materiality - 'Let my materiality be thus, let my materiality not be thus'?" "No indeed, Master Gotama."
"Pay attention, Aggivessana; having paid attention, Aggivessana, answer. Your latter statement does not connect with your former, nor your former with your latter. What do you think, Aggivessana, when you speak thus - 'Feeling is my self,' do you have authority over that feeling - 'Let my feeling be thus, let my feeling not be thus'?" "No indeed, Master Gotama."
"Pay attention, Aggivessana; having paid attention, Aggivessana, answer. Your latter statement does not connect with your former, nor your former with your latter. What do you think, Aggivessana, when you speak thus - 'Perception is my self,' do you have authority over that perception - 'Let my perception be thus, let my perception not be thus'?" "No indeed, Master Gotama."
"Pay attention, Aggivessana; having paid attention, Aggivessana, answer. Your latter statement does not connect with your former, nor your former with your latter. What do you think, Aggivessana, when you speak thus - 'Activities are my self,' do you have authority over those activities - 'Let my activities be thus, let my activities not be thus'?" "No indeed, Master Gotama."
"Pay attention, Aggivessana; having paid attention, Aggivessana, answer. Your latter statement does not connect with your former, nor your former with your latter. What do you think, Aggivessana, when you speak thus - 'Consciousness is my self,' do you have authority over that consciousness - 'Let my consciousness be thus, let my consciousness not be thus'?" "No indeed, Master Gotama."
"Pay attention, Aggivessana; having paid attention, Aggivessana, answer. Your latter statement does not connect with your former, nor your former with your latter. What do you think, Aggivessana, is materiality permanent or impermanent?" "Impermanent, Master Gotama." "But what is impermanent, is that suffering or happiness?" "Suffering, Master Gotama." "But what is impermanent, suffering, subject to change, is it proper to regard that - 'This is mine, this I am, this is my self'?" "No indeed, Master Gotama."
"What do you think, Aggivessana, is feeling... etc. perception... etc. activities... etc. What do you think, Aggivessana, is consciousness permanent or impermanent?" "Impermanent, Master Gotama." "But what is impermanent, is that suffering or happiness?" "Suffering, Master Gotama." "But what is impermanent, suffering, subject to change, is it proper to regard that - 'This is mine, this I am, this is my self'?" "No indeed, Master Gotama."
"What do you think, Aggivessana, would one who clings to suffering, has reached suffering, is attached to suffering, who regards suffering thus: 'This is mine, this I am, this is my self' - would he himself fully understand suffering, or would he dwell having utterly eliminated suffering?" "How could that be, Master Gotama? No indeed, Master Gotama."
"What do you think, Aggivessana, this being so, are you not one who clings to suffering, has reached suffering, is attached to suffering, who regards suffering - 'This is mine, this I am, this is my self'?" "How could it not be so, Master Gotama? So it is, Master Gotama."
359. "Just as, Aggivessana, a man desiring the substance, seeking the substance, wandering about in search of the substance, having taken a sharp axe, might enter a forest. There he might see a great plantain trunk, upright, young, without a fruit-bud core. He might cut it at the root, having cut it at the root he might cut it at the top, having cut it at the top he might unroll the leaf-sheaths. There, unrolling the leaf-sheaths, he would not find even the soft wood, whence the substance? Just so you, Aggivessana, being cross-questioned by me, being pressed for reasons, being admonished regarding your own doctrine, are empty, hollow, defeated. But this speech was spoken by you, Aggivessana, in the assembly at Vesālī - 'I do not see any ascetic or brahmin, one who has a following, who has a group, who is a teacher of a group, even one claiming to be a Worthy One, a One Enlightened by himself, who, having engaged in debate with me, would not tremble, would not shake, would not quake, from whose armpits sweat would not pour forth. Even if I were to engage in debate with a senseless post, that post, having been engaged in debate by me, would tremble, would shake, would quake. What then to say of a human being?' But for you, Aggivessana, some drops of sweat released from your forehead, having penetrated through your upper robe, have settled on the ground. But for me, Aggivessana, there is no sweat on my body at present." Thus the Blessed One uncovered his golden-coloured body in that assembly. When this was said, Saccaka, the son of a Jain, sat silent, downcast, with drooping shoulders, face cast down, brooding, without response.
360. Then Dummukha, the Licchavi's son, having understood that Saccaka, the son of a Jain, had become silent, downcast, with drooping shoulders, with face cast down, pondering, bewildered, said this to the Blessed One - "A simile occurs to me, Blessed One." "Let it occur to you, Dummukha," said the Blessed One. "Just as, venerable sir, not far from a village or a town there might be a pond. In it there might be a crab. Then, venerable sir, several boys or girls, having gone out from that village or town, might approach that pond; having approached, having plunged into that pond, having pulled that crab out of the water, they might set it on dry ground. Whatever claw, venerable sir, that crab might extend, that very claw those boys or girls would cut, break, and smash with a stick or a potsherd. Thus indeed, venerable sir, that crab, with all its claws cut, broken, and smashed, would be incapable of descending again into that pond, just as before. Just so, venerable sir, whatever wrigglings, contortions, and struggles of Saccaka, the son of a Jain, all those have been cut, broken, and smashed by the Blessed One; and now, venerable sir, Saccaka, the son of a Jain, is incapable of approaching the Blessed One again, that is to say, with the intention of debate." When this was said, Saccaka, the son of a Jain, said this to Dummukha, the Licchavi's son - "Wait, Dummukha, wait, Dummukha! We are not consulting with you; here we are consulting with Master Gotama.
361. "Let that stand, Master Gotama, the speech of ours and of the many other ascetics and brahmins. Methinks it was mere idle talk. But in what respect does a disciple of Master Gotama become one who follows the teaching, one who accepts exhortation, one who has crossed over doubt, one who has gone beyond uncertainty, one who has attained self-confidence, one not relying on others, dwelling in the Teacher's instruction?" "Here, Aggivessana, my disciple, whatever materiality, past, future, or present, internal or external, gross or subtle, inferior or superior, whether far or near, all materiality - 'This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self' - thus he sees this as it really is with right wisdom; whatever feeling... etc. whatever perception... etc. whatever activities... etc. whatever consciousness, past, future, or present, internal or external, gross or subtle, inferior or superior, whether far or near, all consciousness - 'This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self' - thus he sees this as it really is with right wisdom. To this extent indeed, Aggivessana, my disciple becomes one who follows the teaching, one who accepts exhortation, one who has crossed over doubt, one who has gone beyond uncertainty, one who has attained self-confidence, one not relying on others, dwelling in the Teacher's instruction."
"But in what respect, Master Gotama, is a monk a Worthy One, one who has eliminated the mental corruptions, one who has lived the holy life, one who has done what was to be done, one who has laid down the burden, one who has attained his own welfare, one who has completely destroyed the fetter of becoming, one completely liberated through final knowledge?" "Here, Aggivessana, a monk, whatever materiality, past, future, or present, internal or external, gross or subtle, inferior or superior, whether far or near, all materiality - 'This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self' - having seen this as it really is with right wisdom, is liberated by non-clinging; whatever feeling... etc. whatever perception... etc. whatever activities... etc. whatever consciousness, past, future, or present, internal or external, gross or subtle, inferior or superior, whether far or near, all consciousness - 'This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self' - having seen this as it really is with right wisdom, is liberated by non-clinging. To this extent indeed, Aggivessana, a monk is a Worthy One, one who has eliminated the mental corruptions, one who has lived the holy life, one who has done what was to be done, one who has laid down the burden, one who has attained his own welfare, one who has completely destroyed the fetter of becoming, one completely liberated through final knowledge. A monk with mind thus liberated, Aggivessana, is endowed with three unsurpassed things - unsurpassed vision, unsurpassed practice, unsurpassed liberation. A monk with mind thus liberated, Aggivessana, honours, respects, reveres, and venerates the Truth-finder alone - 'That Blessed One is enlightened, he teaches the Teaching for enlightenment; that Blessed One is tamed, he teaches the Teaching for taming; that Blessed One is peaceful, he teaches the Teaching for peace; that Blessed One has crossed over, he teaches the Teaching for crossing over; that Blessed One has attained final Nibbāna, he teaches the Teaching for final Nibbāna.'"
362. When this was said, Saccaka, the son of a Jain, said this to the Blessed One - "We ourselves, Master Gotama, are destroyers of virtue, we are reckless, we who imagined that Master Gotama could be assailed in debate. For there might be, Master Gotama, safety for a man having approached a furious elephant, but there would never be safety for a man having approached Master Gotama. For there might be, Master Gotama, safety for a man having approached a blazing mass of fire, but there would never be safety for a man having approached Master Gotama. For there might be, Master Gotama, safety for a man having approached a venomous snake with terrible poison, but there would never be safety for a man having approached Master Gotama. We ourselves, Master Gotama, are destroyers of virtue, we are reckless, we who imagined that Master Gotama could be assailed in debate. May Master Gotama consent to accept a meal from me tomorrow together with the Community of monks." The Blessed One consented by silence.
363. Then Saccaka, the son of a Jain, having understood the Blessed One's consent, addressed those Licchavis - "Let the venerable Licchavis hear me, the ascetic Gotama has been invited by me for tomorrow together with the Community of monks. Therefore bring me whatever you would consider suitable." Then those Licchavis, after that night had passed, brought to Saccaka, the son of a Jain, about five hundred dishes of boiled rice as a food offering. Then the son of a Jain, having had superior solid and soft food prepared at his own park, announced the time to the Blessed One - "It is time, Master Gotama, the meal is ready." Then the Blessed One, having dressed in the earlier period of the day, taking his bowl and robe, approached the park of Saccaka, the son of a Jain; having approached, he sat down on the prepared seat together with the Community of monks. Then Saccaka, the son of a Jain, with his own hand satisfied and served the Community of monks headed by the Buddha with superior solid and soft food. Then Saccaka, the son of a Jain, when the Blessed One had finished eating and had removed his hand from the bowl, having taken a certain low seat, sat down to one side. Seated to one side, Saccaka, the son of a Jain, said this to the Blessed One - "Whatever merit and great merit there is in this gift, Master Gotama, may that be for the happiness of the donors." "Whatever, Aggivessana, comes to one worthy of offerings such as yourself, who is not free from lust, not free from hate, not free from delusion, that will be for the donors. Whatever, Aggivessana, comes to one worthy of offerings such as myself, who is without lust, without hate, without delusion, that will be for you."
The Discourse on the Shorter Saccaka is concluded as fifth.