7.
The Chapter on the Process of Formless States
1.
The Question on the Arising of Mindfulness
1. The king said: "Venerable Nāgasena, in how many ways does mindfulness arise?" "In seventeen ways, great king, mindfulness arises." "In which seventeen ways?" "Through direct knowing, great king, mindfulness arises; through a reminder, mindfulness arises; through gross consciousness, mindfulness arises; through consciousness of welfare, mindfulness arises; through consciousness of harm, mindfulness arises; through a similar sign, mindfulness arises; through a dissimilar sign, mindfulness arises; through recognition by speech, mindfulness arises; through a characteristic, mindfulness arises; through reminding, mindfulness arises; through a seal, mindfulness arises; through counting, mindfulness arises; through retention, mindfulness arises; through meditation, mindfulness arises; through binding to a book, mindfulness arises; through depositing, mindfulness arises; through experience, mindfulness arises.
"How does mindfulness arise through direct knowing? Just as, great king, the Venerable Ānanda and the female lay follower Khujjuttarā, or whoever else remembers former births, remember their births, thus mindfulness arises through direct knowing.
"How does mindfulness arise through a reminder? Whoever is by nature forgetful, and others bind him for the purpose of making him remember, thus mindfulness arises through a reminder.
"How does mindfulness arise through gross consciousness? When one is consecrated in a kingdom, or when one has attained the fruition of stream-entry, thus mindfulness arises through gross consciousness.
"How does mindfulness arise through consciousness of welfare? In whatever situation one was made happy, one remembers 'In such and such a situation I was thus made happy,' thus mindfulness arises through consciousness of welfare.
"How does mindfulness arise through consciousness of harm? In whatever situation one was made to suffer, one remembers 'In such and such a situation I was thus made to suffer,' thus mindfulness arises through consciousness of harm.
"How does mindfulness arise through a similar sign? Having seen a similar person, one remembers one's mother or father or brother or sister; having seen a camel or an ox or a donkey, one remembers another such camel or ox or donkey, thus mindfulness arises through a similar sign.
"How does mindfulness arise through a dissimilar sign? One remembers 'The colour of so-and-so is like this, the sound is like this, the odour is like this, the flavour is like this, the tangible object is like this,' thus also mindfulness arises through a dissimilar sign.
"How does mindfulness arise through recognition by speech? Whoever is by nature forgetful, others remind him, and by that he remembers, thus mindfulness arises through recognition by speech.
"How does mindfulness arise through a characteristic? Whoever by nature knows oxen by their limbs, knows by their characteristics, thus mindfulness arises through a characteristic.
"How does mindfulness arise through reminding? Whoever is by nature forgetful, whoever reminds him again and again 'Remember, friend, remember, friend,' thus mindfulness arises through reminding.
"How does mindfulness arise through a seal? Because of having trained in writing, one knows 'After this letter, this letter should be made,' thus mindfulness arises through a seal.
"How does mindfulness arise through counting? Because of having trained in counting, accountants count even much, thus mindfulness arises through counting.
"How does mindfulness arise through retention? Because of having trained in retention, retainers retain even much, thus mindfulness arises through retention.
"How does mindfulness arise from meditation? Here a monk recollects manifold past lives, that is, one birth, two births, etc. Thus with aspects and terms he recollects past lives; in this way mindfulness arises from meditation.
"How does mindfulness arise from binding to a book? Kings, not remembering an instruction, say 'Bring that book'; by that book they remember; in this way mindfulness arises from binding to a book.
"How does mindfulness arise from depositing? Having seen goods placed in deposit, one remembers; in this way mindfulness arises from depositing.
"How does mindfulness arise from what has been experienced? Because of having been seen, one remembers form; because of having been heard, one remembers sound; because of having been smelled, one remembers odour; because of having been tasted, one remembers flavour; because of having been touched, one remembers tangible object; because of having been cognized, one remembers mental phenomena; in this way mindfulness arises from what has been experienced. By these seventeen ways, great king, mindfulness arises."
"You are clever, Venerable Nāgasena."
The question on the arising of mindfulness is the first.
2.
The Question on Attaining Mindfulness of the Buddha's Virtues
2. The king said: "Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'whoever would do unwholesome deeds for a hundred years, and at the time of death would obtain mindfulness of one virtue of the Buddha, he would arise among the gods' - I do not believe this; and yet you say 'by this killing of living beings one would arise in hell' - I do not believe this either."
"What do you think, great king, would even a small stone float on the water without a boat?" "No indeed, venerable sir." "What then, great king, would even a hundred cartloads of stones placed on a boat float on the water?" "Yes, venerable sir." "Just as, great king, the boat, so wholesome actions should be seen."
"You are clever, Venerable Nāgasena."
The question on attaining mindfulness of the Buddha's virtues is the second.
3.
The Question on Effort for the Abandoning of Suffering
3. The king said: "Venerable Nāgasena, do you strive for the abandoning of past suffering?" "No indeed, great king." "But do you, venerable sir, strive for the abandoning of future suffering?" "No indeed, great king." "But do you strive for the abandoning of present suffering?" "No indeed, great king." "If you do not strive for the abandoning of past suffering, do not strive for the abandoning of future suffering, do not strive for the abandoning of present suffering, then for what purpose do you strive?" The elder said: "So that, great king, this suffering might cease, and other suffering might not arise - for this purpose we strive."
"But is there, venerable Nāgasena, future suffering for you?" "There is not, great king." "You, venerable Nāgasena, are too clever, you who strive for the abandoning of non-existing future sufferings?" "But are there, great king, any hostile kings, adversaries, enemies present for you?" "Yes, venerable sir, there is." "Would you then, great king, have a moat dug, have a wall built, have a gateway built, have a watchtower built, have grain brought in?" "No indeed, venerable sir, that has been prepared beforehand." "Would you, great king, then train in elephants, train in horses, train in chariots, train in bows, train in swords?" "No indeed, venerable sir, that has been trained beforehand." "For what purpose?" "For the purpose of warding off future dangers, venerable sir." "Is there, great king, future danger?" "There is not, venerable sir." "You too, great king, are too clever, you who prepare for the purpose of warding off non-existing future dangers."
"Give a further simile." "What do you think, great king, when you were thirsty, would you then have a well dug, have a pond dug, have a lake dug, thinking 'I will drink water'?" "No indeed, venerable sir, that has been prepared beforehand." "For what purpose?" "For the purpose of warding off future thirst, venerable sir, it has been prepared." "But is there, great king, future thirst?" "There is not, venerable sir." "You, great king, are too clever, you who prepare that for the purpose of warding off non-existing future thirst."
"Give a further simile." "What do you think, great king, when you were hungry, would you then have a field ploughed, have rice sown, thinking 'I will eat a meal'?" "No indeed, venerable sir, that has been prepared beforehand." "For what purpose?" "For the purpose of warding off future hunger, venerable sir." "But is there, great king, future hunger?" "There is not, venerable sir." "You, great king, are too clever, you who prepare for the purpose of warding off non-existing future hunger."
"You are clever, Venerable Nāgasena."
The question on effort for the abandoning of suffering is the third.
4.
The Question on the Brahma World
4. The king said: "Venerable Nāgasena, how far from here is the Brahma world?" "The Brahma world is far from here, great king. A stone the size of a pinnacle building falling from there, descending forty-eight thousand yojanas in a day and night, would reach the earth in four months."
"Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'just as a strong man might extend his bent arm or bend his extended arm, even so a monk possessing supernormal power, having attained mastery of mind, having vanished from the Indian subcontinent, might appear in the Brahma world' - I do not believe this statement, that he would go so many hundreds of yojanas so extremely quickly."
The elder said: "But where, great king, is your birthplace?" "There is, venerable sir, an island named Alasanda; I was born there." "How far, great king, is Alasanda from here?" "About two hundred yojanas, venerable sir." "Do you recall, great king, having done some task there, remembering it?" "Yes, venerable sir, I remember." "Quickly indeed, great king, you have gone about two hundred yojanas."
"You are clever, Venerable Nāgasena."
The question on the Brahma world is the fourth.
5.
The Question on the Equal State of Two Beings Arisen in the World
5. The king said: "Venerable Nāgasena, one who has died here and would arise in the Brahma world, and one who has died here and would arise in Kashmir - which takes longer, which is quicker?" "The same, great king."
"Give a simile." "But where, great king, is your birthplace?" "There is, venerable sir, a village named Kalasi; I was born there." "How far, great king, is the village of Kalasi from here?" "About two hundred yojanas, venerable sir." "How far, great king, is Kashmir from here?" "Twelve yojanas, venerable sir." "Come now, great king, think of the village of Kalasi." "It has been thought of, venerable sir." "Come now, great king, think of Kashmir." "It has been thought of, venerable sir." "Which indeed, great king, took longer to think of, which was quicker?" "The same, venerable sir." "Just so indeed, great king, one who has died here and would arise in the Brahma world, and one who has died here and would arise in Kashmir - they arise in the same time."
"Give a further simile." "What do you think, great king, if two birds were to go through the sky, and one of them were to settle on a high tree, and one were to settle on a low tree, when they have settled at the same time, whose shadow would first become established on the ground, whose shadow would become established on the ground after a long time?" "The same, venerable sir." "Just so indeed, great king, one who has died here and would arise in the Brahma world, and one who has died here and would arise in Kashmir - they arise in the same time."
"You are clever, Venerable Nāgasena."
The question on the equal state of two beings arisen in the world is the fifth.
6.
The Question on the Factors of Enlightenment
6. The king said: "How many, venerable Nāgasena, are the factors of enlightenment?" "There are seven factors of enlightenment, great king." "But with how many factors of enlightenment, venerable sir, does one become enlightened?" "With one factor of enlightenment, great king, one becomes enlightened - with the enlightenment factor of investigation of phenomena." "Then why, venerable sir, are they called 'seven factors of enlightenment'?" "What do you think, great king, does a sword thrown into a sheath, not grasped by the hand, have the ability to cut what is to be cut?" "No indeed, venerable sir." "Just so, great king, without the enlightenment factor of investigation of phenomena, with the six factors of enlightenment one does not become enlightened."
"You are clever, Venerable Nāgasena."
The question on the factors of enlightenment is the sixth.
7.
The Question on the Smallness and Greatness of Evil and Merit
7. The king said: "Venerable Nāgasena, which indeed is more, merit or demerit?" "Merit indeed, great king, is more; demerit is little." "For what reason?" "One doing demerit, great king, becomes remorseful: 'An evil deed was done by me,' therefore evil does not grow. One doing merit, great king, is not remorseful; for one not remorseful, gladness arises; in one who is gladdened, rapture arises; when the mind is filled with rapture, the body becomes calm; one whose body is calm feels happiness; the mind of one who is happy becomes concentrated; one who is concentrated understands as it really is; for that reason merit grows. A man, great king, with hands and feet cut off, having given one bundle of water-lilies to the Blessed One, will not go to the nether world for ninety-one cosmic cycles. By this reason too, great king, I say: 'Merit is more, demerit is little.'"
"You are clever, Venerable Nāgasena."
The question on the smallness and greatness of evil and merit is the seventh.
8.
The Question on Doing Evil Knowingly and Unknowingly
8. The king said: "Venerable Nāgasena, one who knowing commits an evil deed, one who not knowing commits an evil deed, for whom is there more demerit?" The elder said: "Whoever indeed, great king, not knowing commits an evil deed, for him there is more demerit." "If so, Venerable Nāgasena, whoever among our princes or chief ministers not knowing commits an evil deed, do we punish him twofold?" "What do you think, great king, a red-hot iron ball, blazing, in flames, aglow - one knowing might grasp it, one not knowing might grasp it - which one would be burnt more severely?" "Whoever indeed, venerable sir, not knowing might grasp it, he would be burnt more severely." "Just so indeed, great king, whoever not knowing commits an evil deed, for him there is more demerit."
"You are clever, Venerable Nāgasena."
The question on doing evil knowingly and unknowingly is the eighth.
9.
The Question on Going to Uttarakuru and So On
9. The king said: "Venerable Nāgasena, is there anyone who could go to Uttarakuru with this body, or to the Brahma world, or else to another island?" "There is, great king, one who could go to Uttarakuru with this body consisting of the four great elements, or to the Brahma world, or else to another island."
"How, Venerable Nāgasena, could one go to Uttarakuru with this body consisting of the four great elements, or to the Brahma world, or else to another island?" "Do you recall, great king, having jumped a span or a cubit on this earth?" "Yes, venerable sir, I recall 'I, Venerable Nāgasena, jump even eight cubits.'" "How do you, great king, jump even eight cubits?" "I, venerable sir, produce the thought 'I will land here' - together with the arising of the thought my body becomes light." "Just so indeed, great king, a monk possessing supernormal power, having attained mastery of mind, having placed the body upon the mind, goes through the sky by the power of mind."
"You are clever, Venerable Nāgasena."
The question on going to Uttarakuru and so on is the ninth.
10.
The Question on Long Bones
10. The king said: "Venerable Nāgasena, you say thus 'bones are long, even a hundred yojanas,' but there is not even a tree a hundred yojanas tall, how then could there be bones a hundred yojanas long?"
"What do you think, great king, have you heard 'in the great ocean there are fish even five hundred yojanas in size'?" "Yes, venerable sir, I have heard." "Is it not, great king, that a fish five hundred yojanas in size would have bones that are long, even a hundred yojanas?"
"You are clever, Venerable Nāgasena."
The question on long bones is the tenth.
11.
The Question on the Cessation of In-breath and Out-breath
11. The king said: "Venerable Nāgasena, do you say thus 'it is possible to stop the in-breath and out-breath'?" "Yes, great king, it is possible to stop the in-breath and out-breath." "How, venerable Nāgasena, is it possible to stop the in-breath and out-breath?" "What do you think, great king, have you ever heard anyone snoring?" "Yes, venerable sir, I have heard." "Would that sound, great king, cease when the body is bent?" "Yes, venerable sir, it would cease." "If indeed, great king, that sound of one with undeveloped body, undeveloped morality, undeveloped mind, undeveloped wisdom will cease when the body is bent, how then will the in-breath and out-breath not cease for one with developed body, developed morality, developed mind, developed wisdom who has attained the fourth meditative absorption?"
"You are clever, Venerable Nāgasena."
The question on the cessation of in-breath and out-breath is the eleventh.
12.
The Question on the Ocean
12. The king said: "Venerable Nāgasena, 'the ocean, the ocean' is said; for what reason is water called 'the ocean'?" The elder said: "However much, great king, there is water, that much there is salt. However much there is salt, that much there is water. Therefore it is called 'the ocean'."
"You are clever, Venerable Nāgasena."
The question on the ocean is the twelfth.
13.
The Question on the Ocean Having One Flavour
13. The king said: "Venerable Nāgasena, for what reason does the ocean have one flavour, the flavour of salt?" "Because of the water having been established for a long time, great king, the ocean has one flavour, the flavour of salt."
"You are clever, Venerable Nāgasena."
The question on the ocean having one flavour is the thirteenth.
14.
The Question on the Subtle
14. The king said: "Venerable Nāgasena, is it possible to cut all that is subtle?" "Yes, great king, it is possible to cut all that is subtle." "But what, venerable sir, is all subtle?" "Mental phenomena, great king, are all subtle; but not all mental phenomena are subtle, great king. 'Subtle' or 'gross' - this is a designation for mental phenomena. Whatever is to be cut, all that is cut by wisdom; there is no second cutting by wisdom."
"You are clever, Venerable Nāgasena."
The question on the subtle is the fourteenth.
15.
The Question on the Different Meanings of Consciousness
15. The king said: "Venerable Nāgasena, 'consciousness' or 'wisdom' or 'soul in what has come to be' - are these phenomena different in meaning and different in phrasing, or are they one in meaning and only different in phrasing?" "Cognition is the characteristic of consciousness, great king; understanding is the characteristic of wisdom; a soul in what has come to be is not found." "If a soul is not found, then who now sees form with the eye, hears sound with the ear, smells odour with the nose, tastes flavour with the tongue, touches tangible object with the body, cognizes mental phenomena with the mind?" The elder said: "If a soul sees form with the eye... etc. cognizes mental phenomena with the mind, that soul, when the eye-doors are torn out, facing outward with the great space, would see form more clearly; when the ears are torn out, when the nose is torn out, when the tongue is torn out, when the body is torn out, with the great space, would hear sound more clearly, would smell odour, would taste flavour, would touch tangible object?" "No indeed, venerable sir." "If so, great king, a soul in what has come to be is not found."
"You are clever, Venerable Nāgasena."
The question on the different meanings of consciousness is the fifteenth.
16.
The Question on the Difficulty of Defining Immaterial Phenomena
16. The king said: "Venerable Nāgasena, has something difficult been done by the Blessed One?" The elder said: "Something difficult, great king, has been done by the Blessed One." "But what, Venerable Nāgasena, has been done by the Blessed One that is difficult?" "Something difficult, great king, has been done by the Blessed One: the defining of these immaterial mental states of consciousness and mental factors occurring with a single object has been declared: 'This is contact, this is feeling, this is perception, this is volition, this is consciousness.'"
"Give a simile." "Just as, great king, some man, having plunged into the great ocean by boat, having taken water with a cupped hand, having tasted it with his tongue, would he know, great king, that man: 'This is water of the Ganges, this is water of the Yamunā, this is water of the Aciravatī, this is water of the Sarabhū, this is water of the Mahī'?" "It is difficult, venerable sir, to know." "More difficult than this indeed, great king, has been done by the Blessed One: the defining of these immaterial mental states of consciousness and mental factors occurring with a single object has been declared: 'This is contact, this is feeling, this is perception, this is volition, this is consciousness.'" "Well said, venerable sir," the king rejoiced.
The question on the difficulty of defining immaterial phenomena is the sixteenth.
The Chapter on Defining Immaterial Phenomena is the seventh.
In this chapter there are sixteen questions.