3.
The Chapter on Dismissal
1.
The Question on the Foremost Teaching
1. "Venerable Nāgasena, this too was spoken by the Blessed One: 'For the Teaching, Vāseṭṭha, is foremost among people, both in this present life and in the future life.' And again: 'A lay follower, a householder, a stream-enterer, with the realms of misery closed, one attained to right view, who has understood the teaching, pays respect to a monk or a novice who is a worldling, and rises up in respect.' If, venerable Nāgasena, it was spoken by the Blessed One: 'For the Teaching, Vāseṭṭha, is foremost among people, both in this present life and in the future life,' then the statement 'A lay follower, a householder, a stream-enterer, with the realms of misery closed, one attained to right view, who has understood the teaching, pays respect to a monk or a novice who is a worldling, and rises up in respect' is wrong. If 'A lay follower, a householder, a stream-enterer, with the realms of misery closed, one attained to right view, who has understood the teaching, pays respect to a monk or a novice who is a worldling, and rises up in respect,' then the statement 'For the Teaching, Vāseṭṭha, is foremost among people, both in this present life and in the future life' is also wrong. This too is a question with two points that has come to you; it should be resolved by you."
"This too was spoken, great king, by the Blessed One: 'For the Teaching, Vāseṭṭha, is foremost among people, both in this present life and in the future life,' and 'A lay follower, a householder, a stream-enterer, with the realms of misery closed, one attained to right view, who has understood the teaching, pays respect to a monk or a novice who is a worldling, and rises up in respect.' But there is a reason for this. What is that reason?
"There are, great king, these twenty qualities that make an ascetic an ascetic and two marks, by which an ascetic is worthy of paying respect, rising up in respect, honour and veneration. What are the twenty qualities that make an ascetic an ascetic and the two marks? Foremost delight in the Teaching, supreme restraint, conduct, abiding, self-control, restraint, patience, meekness, solitary practice, delight in solitude, seclusion, shame and moral fear, energy, diligence, undertaking of the training, recitation, interrogation, delight in morality and so on, freedom from attachment, fulfilment of the training rules, wearing of the orange robe, and the state of being shaven-headed. These, great king, are the twenty qualities that make an ascetic an ascetic and the two marks. A monk lives having undertaken these virtues; because of the non-deficiency, completeness, accomplishment, and endowment with those qualities, he enters the plane of one beyond training, the plane of a Worthy One, he enters the foremost intermediate plane, and because he has approached arahantship, it is proper for a lay follower who is a stream-enterer to pay respect to a monk who is a worldling and to rise up in respect.
"'He has attained fellowship with those who have eliminated the mental corruptions; I do not have that opportunity' - thus it is proper for a lay follower who is a stream-enterer to pay respect to a monk who is a worldling and to rise up in respect.
"'He has attained the foremost assembly; I have not attained that state' - thus it is proper for a lay follower who is a stream-enterer to pay respect to a monk who is a worldling and to rise up in respect.
"'He is able to hear the recitation of the Pātimokkha; I am not able to hear it' - thus it is proper for a lay follower who is a stream-enterer to pay respect to a monk who is a worldling and to rise up in respect.
"'He gives the going forth to others, gives full ordination, and increases the Conqueror's Dispensation; I am not able to do this' - thus it is proper for a lay follower who is a stream-enterer to pay respect to a monk who is a worldling and to rise up in respect.
"'He is one who completely fulfils the immeasurable training rules; I do not practise in them' - thus it is proper for a lay follower who is a stream-enterer to pay respect to a monk who is a worldling and to rise up in respect.
"'He has attained the mark of an ascetic, he stands in the Buddha's intention; I have gone far from that mark' - thus it is proper for a lay follower who is a stream-enterer to pay respect to a monk who is a worldling and to rise up in respect.
"'He has grown hair in the armpits, is unanointed and unadorned, with the fragrance of morality unsmeared; but I delight in adornment and decoration' - thus it is proper for a lay follower who is a stream-enterer to pay respect to a monk who is a worldling and to rise up in respect.
"Moreover, great king, 'Those twenty qualities that make an ascetic an ascetic and the two marks, all these qualities are found in a monk; he himself retains those qualities and also trains others in them; I do not have that approach and training' - thus it is proper for a lay follower who is a stream-enterer to pay respect to a monk who is a worldling and to rise up in respect.
"Just as, great king, a prince studies knowledge in the presence of a chaplain, learns the duties of a warrior, and at a later time, having been consecrated, pays respect to his teacher and rises up in respect, thinking 'This is my trainer,' just so indeed, great king, 'A monk is a trainer, a bearer of the lineage' - thus it is proper for a lay follower who is a stream-enterer to pay respect to a monk who is a worldling and to rise up in respect.
"Moreover, great king, by this method too know the greatness and unequalled vastness of the monk's plane. If, great king, a lay follower who is a stream-enterer realizes arahantship, there are only two destinations for him, no other: on that very day he would either attain final Nibbāna or would attain the state of a monk. For that going forth, great king, is immovable, great and very lofty, namely the monk's plane." "The question has gone to knowledge, venerable Nāgasena, well unravelled by you who are powerful and of superior intelligence; no other is competent to unravel this question thus except one wise like you."
The question on the foremost teaching is the first.
2.
The Question on Pervading All Beings with Welfare
2. "Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'the Truth-finder, having removed harm, provides welfare for all beings.' And again you say that when the exposition of the Teaching on the Simile of the Mass of Fire was being spoken, 'hot blood gushed from the mouths of about sixty monks.' Venerable sir, by the Truth-finder teaching the exposition of the Teaching on the Simile of the Mass of Fire, welfare was removed and harm was provided for about sixty monks. If, venerable Nāgasena, the Truth-finder, having removed harm, provides welfare for all beings, then the statement that when the exposition of the Teaching on the Simile of the Mass of Fire was being spoken, hot blood gushed from the mouths of about sixty monks - that statement is wrong. If when the exposition of the Teaching on the Simile of the Mass of Fire was being spoken, hot blood gushed from the mouths of about sixty monks, then the statement that the Truth-finder, having removed harm, provides welfare for all beings - that statement too is wrong. This too is a question with two points that has come to you; it should be resolved by you."
"The Truth-finder, great king, having removed harm, provides welfare for all beings; when the exposition of the Teaching on the Simile of the Mass of Fire was being spoken, hot blood gushed from the mouths of about sixty monks, but that was not by the Truth-finder's doing, but by their own doing."
"If, venerable Nāgasena, the Truth-finder had not spoken the exposition of the Teaching on the Simile of the Mass of Fire, would hot blood have gushed from their mouths?" "No indeed, great king, for those who were wrongly practised, having heard the Blessed One's exposition of the Teaching, fever arose in their bodies; by that fever of theirs, hot blood gushed from their mouths." "If so, venerable Nāgasena, it was by the Truth-finder's doing that hot blood gushed from their mouths; the Truth-finder alone was the cause there for their destruction. Just as, venerable Nāgasena, a snake might enter an ant-hill, and then a certain man wanting dust, having broken the ant-hill, might carry away the dust, and by his carrying away the dust, the hole of the ant-hill might be blocked, and then right there, not getting breath, it might die - is not that snake, venerable sir, brought to death by that man's doing?" "Yes, great king." "Just so indeed, venerable Nāgasena, the Truth-finder alone was the cause there for their destruction."
"The Truth-finder, great king, while teaching the Teaching, does not create attraction and aversion; free from attraction and aversion, he teaches the Teaching. Thus when the Teaching is being taught, those there who are rightly practised, they understand fully. But those who are wrongly practised, they fall. Just as, great king, when a man is shaking a mango or a rose-apple or a honey tree, whatever fruits there are substantial and firmly attached, they remain there unfallen, but whatever fruits there have rotten stalks and roots and are weakly attached, they fall. Just so indeed, great king, the Truth-finder, while teaching the Teaching, does not create attraction and aversion; free from attraction and aversion, he teaches the Teaching. Thus when the Teaching is being taught, those there who are rightly practised, they understand fully. But those who are wrongly practised, they fall.
"Or else, great king, a farmer wishing to plant grain ploughs the field; as he ploughs, many hundreds of thousands of grasses die. Just so indeed, great king, the Truth-finder, awakening beings whose minds are mature, free from attraction and aversion, teaches the Teaching. Thus when the Teaching is being taught, those there who are rightly practised, they understand fully. But those who are wrongly practised, they die like grasses.
"Or just as, great king, human beings for the sake of flavour crush sugar-cane with a machine, and as they are crushing the sugar-cane, whatever worms have entered the mouth of the machine, they are crushed. Just so indeed, great king, the Truth-finder, awakening beings whose minds are mature, presses the machine of the Teaching, and those who are wrongly practised there, they die like worms."
"Is it not so, Venerable Nāgasena, that those monks fell by that proclamation of the Teaching?" "Does a carpenter, great king, planing a tree, make it straight and pure?" "No indeed, venerable sir, having removed what is to be avoided, the carpenter makes the tree straight and pure." "Just so indeed, great king, the Truth-finder, protecting the assembly, is not able to awaken beings capable of being awakened; but having removed beings who are wrongly practised, he awakens beings capable of being awakened; but by their own doing, great king, those wrongly practised fall.
"Just as, great king, the plantain, the bamboo, and the mule are destroyed by what is self-produced, just so indeed, great king, those who are wrongly practised, they are destroyed by their own doing and fall.
"Just as, great king, thieves by their own doing receive the gouging out of eyes, impalement, and beheading, just so indeed, great king, those who are wrongly practised, they are destroyed by their own doing and fall. For those about sixty monks, great king, from whose mouths hot blood gushed forth, that was neither by the doing of the Blessed One, nor by the doing of others, but indeed by their own doing.
"Just as, great king, a man might give the deathless to all people, and they, having consumed that deathless, healthy and long-lived, might be released from all calamities; then a certain man, through wrong use, having consumed that, might reach death - would that man who gave the deathless, great king, commit any demerit on that account?" "No indeed, venerable sir." "Just so indeed, great king, the Truth-finder gives the deathless gift of the Teaching to gods and humans in the ten-thousand-fold world system; those beings who are capable, they are awakened by the deathless Teaching. But those beings who are incapable, they are destroyed and fall by the deathless Teaching. Food, great king, protects the life of all beings; some, having eaten it, die of cholera - would that man who gave the food, great king, commit any demerit on that account?" "No indeed, venerable sir." "Just so indeed, great king, the Truth-finder gives the deathless gift of the Teaching to gods and humans in the ten-thousand-fold world system; those beings who are capable, they are awakened by the deathless Teaching. But those beings who are incapable, they are destroyed and fall by the deathless Teaching." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus I accept this as true."
The question on pervading all beings with welfare is the second.
3.
The Question on Showing What is Concealed by Cloth
3. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was said by the Truth-finder:
Restraint by mind is good, good is restraint everywhere.'
"And yet the Truth-finder, having sat down in the midst of the four assemblies, in front of gods and humans, showed to the brahmin Sela his private parts sheathed in a cloth. If, venerable Nāgasena, it was said by the Blessed One 'Restraint by body is good,' then the statement that he showed to the brahmin Sela his private parts sheathed in a cloth is wrong. If he shows to the brahmin Sela his private parts sheathed in a cloth, then that statement 'Restraint by body is good' is also wrong. This too is a question with two points that has come to you; it should be resolved by you."
"This was said, great king, by the Blessed One 'Restraint by body is good,' and his private parts sheathed in a cloth were shown to the brahmin Sela. For whoever, great king, has uncertainty arisen regarding the Truth-finder, for his awakening the Blessed One shows by supernormal power a corresponding body, he alone sees that wonder."
"But who would believe this, venerable Nāgasena, that one who has gone to an assembly alone sees that secret, while the rest remaining right there do not see it? Come now, point out to me the reason for this, convince me by means of reason." "But have you, great king, previously seen any sick man surrounded by relatives and friends?" "Yes, venerable sir." "Does that assembly, great king, see that feeling by which that man feels the feeling?" "No indeed, venerable sir, that man, venerable sir, feels it only by himself." "Just so, great king, for whoever has uncertainty arisen regarding the Truth-finder, for him alone the Truth-finder shows by supernormal power a corresponding body for his awakening, he alone sees that wonder.
"Or just as, great king, if a spirit were to possess some man, does that assembly, great king, see that coming of the spirit?" "No indeed, venerable sir, only that afflicted one sees the coming of that spirit." "Just so, great king, for whoever has uncertainty arisen regarding the Truth-finder, for him alone the Truth-finder shows by supernormal power a corresponding body for his awakening, he alone sees that wonder."
"A difficult thing, venerable Nāgasena, was done by the Blessed One, in showing that which should not be shown even to one." "The Blessed One, great king, did not show the secret, but by supernormal power he showed a shadow." "Even when a shadow is seen, venerable sir, the secret is indeed seen, having seen which he came to a conclusion." "Even what is difficult to do, great king, the Truth-finder does to awaken beings capable of being awakened. If, great king, the Truth-finder were to neglect the action, beings capable of being awakened would not awaken. But because, great king, the Truth-finder knows the means to awaken beings capable of being awakened, therefore the Truth-finder awakens those capable of being awakened by whatever means they awaken.
"Just as, great king, a physician, a surgeon, approaches the sick with whatever medicine makes the sick healthy, with that medicine he approaches the sick, he administers an emetic, he administers a purgative, he applies an ointment, he administers an enema. Just so, great king, the Truth-finder awakens by whatever means beings capable of being awakened awaken.
"Or just as, great king, a woman with an obstructed womb shows to a physician her secret that should not be shown, just so, great king, the Truth-finder, to awaken beings capable of being awakened, showed by supernormal power a shadow of the secret that should not be shown. There is no place, great king, called 'not to be shown' with reference to a person. If, great king, anyone would awaken by seeing the Blessed One's heart, the Blessed One would show his heart by means, the Truth-finder, great king, knows the means, is skilled in teaching.
"Surely, great king, the Truth-finder, having known the disposition of the elder Nanda, led him to that divine abode and showed him the heavenly maidens, thinking 'by this means this son of good family will understand,' and by that means that son of good family understood. Thus indeed, great king, the Truth-finder, while in many ways scorning, censuring, and loathing the sign of the beautiful, showed the dove-footed nymphs for the sake of his awakening. Thus too the Truth-finder is one who knows the appropriate means, skilled in teaching.
"Furthermore, great king, the Truth-finder, having approached the elder Cūḷapanthaka who had been expelled by his brother, who was distressed and dejected, gave him a fine piece of cloth, thinking 'by this means this son of good family will understand,' and that son of good family by that means attained mastery in the Conqueror's Dispensation. Thus too, great king, the Truth-finder is one who knows the appropriate means, skilled in teaching.
"Furthermore, great king, the Truth-finder, when asked a question by the brahmin Mogharāja up to the third time, did not answer, thinking 'thus this son of good family's conceit will subside, and through the subsiding of conceit there will be full realization,' and by that means that son of good family's conceit subsided, and through the subsiding of conceit that brahmin attained mastery in the six direct knowledges. Thus too, great king, the Truth-finder is one who knows the appropriate means, skilled in teaching."
"Excellent, venerable Nāgasena, the question has been well unravelled by manifold reasons, the thicket has been made a non-thicket, darkness has been made light, the knot has been broken, the opposing doctrines have been shattered, vision has been produced by you for the sons of the Conqueror, the sectarians are without discernment, you have approached the most excellent of the excellent leaders."
The question on showing what is concealed by cloth is the third.
4.
The Question on the Existence of Harsh Speech
4. "Venerable Nāgasena, this too was spoken by the elder Sāriputta, the General of the Teaching: 'The Truth-finder, friends, is of pure verbal conduct; there is no verbal misconduct of the Truth-finder that the Truth-finder should guard against, thinking: "Let not another know this of me."' And yet the Truth-finder, when laying down the offence involving expulsion regarding the offence of the elder Sudinna the Kalanda's son, behaved with harsh speech, with the address 'foolish man,' and because of that, that elder, being obstructed by a dejected mind through the address 'foolish man,' became remorseful and was not able to penetrate the noble path. If, Venerable Nāgasena, the Truth-finder is of pure verbal conduct, there is no verbal misconduct of the Truth-finder, then the statement that the Truth-finder behaved with the address 'foolish man' regarding the offence of the elder Sudinna the Kalanda's son is wrong. If the Blessed One behaved with the address 'foolish man' regarding the offence of the elder Sudinna the Kalanda's son, then the statement that the Truth-finder is of pure verbal conduct, there is no verbal misconduct of the Truth-finder, that too is wrong. This too is a question with two points that has come to you; it should be resolved by you."
"This too was spoken, great king, by the elder Sāriputta, the General of the Teaching: 'The Truth-finder, friends, is of pure verbal conduct; there is no verbal misconduct of the Truth-finder that the Truth-finder should guard against, thinking: "Let not another know this of me."' And regarding the offence of the Venerable Sudinna the Kalanda's son, when laying down the offence involving expulsion, the Blessed One behaved with the address 'foolish man,' but that was with an uncorrupted mind, without vehemence, with an exact characteristic. And what is the exact characteristic there? For whatever person, great king, there is no full realization of the four truths in this individual existence, his masculinity is empty; one thing being done, another comes to be by another; therefore he is called 'a foolish man.' Thus, great king, the Blessed One behaved towards the Venerable Sudinna the Kalanda's son with a truthful statement, not with a false statement."
"Even regarding the intrinsic nature, Venerable Nāgasena, whoever speaks while reviling, we impose a fine of a coin on him; that is indeed an offence - he reviles while practising a separate convention in dependence on a matter." "But have you, great king, heard before of paying respect or rising up in respect or honour or giving of gifts to one who has stumbled?" "No indeed, venerable sir, from wherever, wherever one has stumbled, he is worthy of censure, worthy of reproof; they even cut off his head, they also strike, they also bind, they also kill, they also burn." "If so, great king, a function was indeed performed by the Blessed One, not non-function."
"Even a function, Venerable Nāgasena, should be done by one doing it in a fitting manner, in a suitable manner. Even by hearing, Venerable Nāgasena, the world with its gods has moral fear and shame towards the Truth-finder; more so by seeing, even more by approaching, by attending upon." "Does a physician, great king, when the body is congested, when the disorder is aggravated, give softening medicines?" "No indeed, venerable sir, he gives sharp, scraping medicines." "Just so indeed, great king, the Truth-finder gives instruction for the appeasement of all the diseases of mental defilements. Even the harsh speech of the Truth-finder, great king, softens beings, makes them gentle. Just as, great king, even hot water softens whatever is to be softened, makes it soft, just so indeed, great king, even the harsh speech of the Truth-finder is full of meaning, accompanied by compassion. Just as, great king, a father's word is full of meaning for his sons, accompanied by compassion, just so indeed, great king, even the harsh speech of the Truth-finder is full of meaning, accompanied by compassion. Even the harsh speech of the Truth-finder, great king, is for the abandoning of mental defilements of beings. Just as, great king, even foul-smelling cow's urine when drunk, even tasteless medicine when chewed, destroys the disease of beings, just so indeed, great king, even the harsh speech of the Truth-finder is full of meaning, accompanied by compassion. Just as, great king, even a large heap of cotton, having fallen on another's body, does not cause pain, just so indeed, great king, even the harsh speech of the Truth-finder does not produce suffering for anyone." "Well determined, Venerable Nāgasena, is the question by many reasons. Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus I accept this as true."
The question on the existence of harsh speech is the fourth.
5.
The Question on the Existence of Non-Sentience in Trees
5. "Venerable Nāgasena, this was said by the Truth-finder:
You who are strenuous in energy, constantly heedful, ask about sleeping happily - for what reason?'
And again it was said:
I too have a word, Bhāradvāja, listen to me.'
"If, Venerable Nāgasena, a tree is without consciousness, then the statement that the Phandana tree conversed with Bhāradvāja is wrong. If the Phandana tree conversed with Bhāradvāja, then the statement that a tree is without consciousness, that too is wrong. This too is a question with two points that has come to you; it should be resolved by you."
"This too was spoken, great king, by the Blessed One: 'A tree is without consciousness,' and the Phandana tree conversed with Bhāradvāja; but that statement was spoken according to popular convention. There is not, great king, any conversation of a tree without consciousness; but, great king, this is a designation for the deity dwelling in that tree as 'tree,' and 'the tree converses' - this is a popular designation. Just as, great king, people call a cart filled with grain a 'grain cart,' yet that cart is not made of grain, the cart is made of wood; but because grain is heaped in that cart, people call it a 'grain cart.' Just so indeed, great king, a tree does not converse, a tree is without consciousness; but the deity dwelling in that tree - that is just a designation for her as 'tree,' and 'the tree converses' - this is a popular designation.
"Or else, great king, one churning curds says 'I am churning buttermilk,' yet it is not buttermilk that he churns; churning just curds, he says 'I am churning buttermilk.' Just so indeed, great king, a tree does not converse, a tree is without consciousness. But the deity dwelling in that tree - that is just a designation for her as 'tree,' and 'the tree converses' - this is a popular designation.
"Or else, great king, one wishing to accomplish what is not yet present says 'I am accomplishing what is present,' one says 'accomplished' of what is not accomplished - thus this is popular convention. Just so indeed, great king, a tree does not converse, a tree is without consciousness. But the deity dwelling in that tree - that is just a designation for her as 'tree,' and 'the tree converses' - this is a popular designation. By whatever popular convention, great king, people express themselves, by that very popular convention the Truth-finder too teaches the Teaching to beings." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus I accept this as true."
The question on the existence of non-sentience in trees is the fifth.
6.
The Question on the Great Fruit of Almsfood
6. "Venerable Nāgasena, this too was spoken by the elder monks who held the recital of sacred scriptures -
The wise one experienced an illness, severe, bordering on death.'
"And again it was spoken by the Blessed One: 'These two, Ānanda, almsfoods are of equal fruit, of equal result, far greater in fruit and far greater in benefit than other almsfoods. Which two? The almsfood having eaten which the Truth-finder fully awakens to the unsurpassed perfect enlightenment, and the almsfood having eaten which the Truth-finder attains final Nibbāna through the Nibbāna element without residue of clinging. These two almsfoods are of equal fruit, of equal result, far greater in fruit and far greater in benefit than other almsfoods.' If, venerable Nāgasena, a severe illness arose in the Blessed One who had finished eating the meal of Cunda, and painful feelings occurred bordering on death, then the statement 'These two, Ānanda, almsfoods are of equal fruit, of equal result, far greater in fruit and far greater in benefit than other almsfoods' is wrong. If these two almsfoods are of equal fruit, of equal result, far greater in fruit and far greater in benefit than other almsfoods, then the statement that a severe illness arose in the Blessed One who had finished eating the meal of Cunda, and painful feelings occurred bordering on death, that too is wrong. Is that almsfood indeed, venerable Nāgasena, of great fruit because of going to poison, of great fruit because of producing disease, of great fruit because of destroying life, of great fruit because of taking the Blessed One's life? Tell me the reason for this, for the refutation of the doctrines of others; here people are deluded, thinking that bloody diarrhoea arose through eating too much under the influence of greed. This too is a question with two points that has come to you; it should be resolved by you."
"This too was spoken, great king, by the elder monks who held the recital of sacred scriptures -
The wise one experienced an illness, severe, bordering on death.'
"And it was spoken by the Blessed One: 'These two, Ānanda, almsfoods are of equal fruit, of equal result, far greater in fruit and far greater in benefit than other almsfoods. Which two? The almsfood having eaten which the Truth-finder fully awakens to the unsurpassed perfect enlightenment, and the almsfood having eaten which the Truth-finder attains final Nibbāna through the Nibbāna element without residue of clinging - these two almsfoods are of equal fruit, of equal result, far greater in fruit and far greater in benefit than other almsfoods.'
"That almsfood, however, was of many virtues and many benefits. The deities, great king, joyful, with devoted minds, thinking 'This is the Blessed One's last almsfood,' sprinkled divine nutriment on the pig's delight. And that was properly cooked, easily digestible, delightful, of many flavours, beneficial for the fire of the stomach. Not, great king, on that account did any unarisen disease arise in the Blessed One; but rather, great king, in the Blessed One's body which was naturally weak, with the life principle exhausted, the arisen disease increased further.
"Just as, great king, a fire burning naturally, when other fuel is given, blazes up more, even so indeed, great king, in the Blessed One's body which was naturally weak, with the life principle exhausted, the arisen disease increased further.
"Or just as, great king, a stream flowing naturally, when a great rain cloud has emerged, becomes a great flood carrying water, even so indeed, great king, in the Blessed One's body which was naturally weak, with the life principle exhausted, the arisen disease increased further.
"Or just as, great king, a belly naturally full of humours, when something else is swallowed, would extend further, even so indeed, great king, in the Blessed One's body which was naturally weak, with the life principle exhausted, the arisen disease increased further. There is not, great king, any fault in that almsfood, nor is it possible to attribute fault to it."
"Venerable Nāgasena, for what reason are those two almsfoods of equal fruit, of equal result, far greater in fruit and far greater in benefit than other almsfoods?" "By the power of attainment through reviewing the mental states, great king, those two almsfoods are of equal fruit, of equal result, far greater in fruit and far greater in benefit than other almsfoods."
"Venerable Nāgasena, by the power of attainment through reviewing which mental states are those two almsfoods of equal fruit, of equal result, far greater in fruit and far greater in benefit than other almsfoods?" "By the power of attaining the nine progressive abiding attainments in forward and reverse order, great king, those two almsfoods are of equal fruit, of equal result, far greater in fruit and far greater in benefit than other almsfoods."
"Venerable Nāgasena, did the Truth-finder exceedingly attain the nine progressive abiding attainments in forward and reverse order in just two days?" "Yes, great king." "Wonderful, Venerable Nāgasena, marvellous, Venerable Nāgasena. That which is the incomparable supreme gift in this Buddha-field, even that is not counted among these two almsfoods. Wonderful, Venerable Nāgasena, marvellous, Venerable Nāgasena. How great are the nine progressive abiding attainments, inasmuch as by the power of the nine progressive abiding attainments a gift becomes of greater fruit and greater benefit. Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus I accept this as true."
The question on the great fruit of almsfood is the sixth.
7.
The Question on Honouring the Buddha
7. "Venerable Nāgasena, this too was spoken by the Truth-finder: 'You, Ānanda, should not be occupied with the veneration of the Truth-finder's body.' And again it was said:
Thus indeed you will go from here to heaven.'
"If, Venerable Nāgasena, it was spoken by the Truth-finder: 'You, Ānanda, should not be occupied with the veneration of the Truth-finder's body,' then the statement 'Venerate the relic of one worthy of veneration, thus doing you will go from here to heaven' is wrong. If it was spoken by the Truth-finder: 'Venerate the relic of one worthy of veneration, thus doing you will go from here to heaven,' then the statement 'You, Ānanda, should not be occupied with the veneration of the Truth-finder's body' is also wrong. This too is a question with two points that has come to you; it should be resolved by you."
"This too was spoken, great king, by the Blessed One: 'You, Ānanda, should not be occupied with the veneration of the Truth-finder's body,' and again it was said: 'Venerate the relic of one worthy of veneration, thus doing you will go from here to heaven,' but that was not spoken concerning all the sons of the Conqueror: 'You, Ānanda, should not be occupied with the veneration of the Truth-finder's body.' For this, great king, is an invalid act for the sons of the Conqueror, that is to say, veneration; exploration of activities, wise attention, observation of the establishments of mindfulness, grasping the essence of the object, warfare against defilements, pursuit of one's own welfare - this is to be done by the sons of the Conqueror; veneration is to be done by the remaining gods and humans.
"Just as, great king, on earth for princes, training in elephants, horses, chariots, bows, sword-hilts, writing, seals, swords, sacred hymns, the Vedas, convention, warfare, and military tactics is to be done, while for the remaining various merchants and workers, farming, trade, and cow-keeping is to be done, even so, great king, this is an invalid act for the sons of the Conqueror, that is to say, veneration; exploration of activities, wise attention, observation of the establishments of mindfulness, grasping the essence of the object, warfare against defilements, pursuit of one's own welfare - this is to be done by the sons of the Conqueror; veneration is to be done by the remaining gods and humans.
"Or else, great king, just as for brahmin students, training in the Rig Veda, Yajur Veda, Sāma Veda, Atharva Veda, marks, history, ancient texts, glossary, ritual, phonetics, terms, grammar, linguistics, omens, dreams, signs, the six factors, lunar eclipses, solar eclipses, the course of Venus and Rāhu, planetary warfare, divine thunder, descent, meteor falls, earthquakes, burning of directions, terrestrial and atmospheric phenomena, astrology, sophistry, the cart-wheel, the deer-wheel, the intermediate wheel, mixed arising, and bird calls and cries is to be done, while for the remaining various merchants and workers, farming, trade, and cow-keeping is to be done, even so, great king, this is an invalid act for the sons of the Conqueror, that is to say, veneration; exploration of activities, wise attention, observation of the establishments of mindfulness, grasping the essence of the object, warfare against defilements, pursuit of one's own welfare - this is to be done by the sons of the Conqueror; veneration is to be done by the remaining gods and humans. Therefore, great king, the Truth-finder said 'You, Ānanda, should not be occupied with the veneration of the Truth-finder's body,' thinking 'Let these not engage in an invalid act, let these engage in a valid act.' If, great king, the Truth-finder had not spoken this, monks, having even exhausted their own bowls and robes, would just make offerings to the Buddha." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus I accept this as true."
The question on honouring the Buddha is the seventh.
8.
The Question on the Foot Struck by a Splinter
8. "Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'when the Blessed One was walking, this senseless great earth rises up where it is low, and bends down where it is high,' and again you say 'the Blessed One's foot was cut by a splinter.' That splinter which fell upon the Blessed One's foot, why then did that splinter not turn back from the Blessed One's foot? If, venerable Nāgasena, when the Blessed One was walking, this senseless great earth rises up where it is low, and bends down where it is high, then the statement 'the Blessed One's foot was cut by a splinter' is wrong. If the Blessed One's foot was cut by a splinter, then the statement 'when the Blessed One was walking, this senseless great earth rises up where it is low, and bends down where it is high' is also wrong. This too is a question with two points that has come to you; it should be resolved by you."
"True, great king, it is so that when the Blessed One was walking, this senseless great earth rises up where it is low, and bends down where it is high, and the Blessed One's foot was cut by a splinter; but that splinter did not fall by its own nature, it fell by Devadatta's assault. Devadatta, great king, bound resentment towards the Blessed One for many hundreds of thousands of births; he, with that resentment, released a great stone the size of a pinnacle building, thinking 'I shall drop it upon the Blessed One.' Then two rocks, having risen up from the earth, received that stone; then by the blow of those, a splinter having broken off from the stone, falling here and there, fell upon the Blessed One's foot."
"But just as, venerable Nāgasena, the two rocks received the stone, so too the splinter should have been received?" "Even when received, great king, something here trickles through and flows away and does not stay in place; just as, great king, water held in the hand trickles through the spaces between the fingers and flows away and does not stay in place; milk, buttermilk, honey, ghee, fish sauce, meat sauce held in the hand trickles through the spaces between the fingers and flows away and does not stay in place; just so indeed, great king, by the blow of the two rocks that had come for the purpose of receiving, a splinter having broken off from the stone, falling here and there, fell upon the Blessed One's foot.
"Or else, great king, just as sand equal to smooth, fine, minute dust, held in the fist, trickles through the spaces between the fingers and flows away and does not stay in place; just so indeed, great king, by the blow of the two rocks that had come for the purpose of receiving, a splinter having broken off from the stone, falling here and there, fell upon the Blessed One's foot.
"Or else, great king, just as a mouthful held in the mouth, having slipped from someone's mouth, trickles through and flows away and does not stay in place; just so indeed, great king, by the blow of the two rocks that had come for the purpose of receiving, a splinter having broken off from the stone, falling here and there, fell upon the Blessed One's foot."
"Let it be, venerable Nāgasena, that the stone was received by the rocks; then should not esteem have been shown by the splinter too, just as by the great earth?" "These twelve, great king, do not show esteem. Which twelve? One lustful does not show esteem through the influence of lust; one corrupt through the influence of hate; one deluded through the influence of delusion; one conceited through the influence of conceit; one without virtue through lack of distinction; one obstinate through inability to be restrained; one inferior through inferior nature; one obedient through lack of independence; one evil through miserliness; one made to suffer through causing suffering in return; one greedy through being overcome by greed; one striving does not show esteem through accomplishing one's own purpose. These, great king, are the twelve that do not show esteem. But that splinter, having broken off by the blow of the stone, with direction made signless, falling here and there, fell upon the Blessed One's foot.
"Or else, great king, just as smooth, fine, minute dust, struck by the force of the wind, with direction made signless, scatters here and there; just so indeed, great king, that splinter, having broken off by the blow of the stone, with direction made signless, falling here and there, fell upon the Blessed One's foot. If, moreover, great king, that splinter had not become separate from the stone, those rocks, having flown up, would have seized even the stone with its splinter. But this splinter, great king, was neither situated on the ground nor situated in the sky; having broken off by the force of the blow of the stone, with direction made signless, falling here and there, it fell upon the Blessed One's foot.
"Or else, great king, just as an old leaf lifted up by a whirlwind, with direction made signless, falls here and there; just so indeed, great king, this splinter, with direction made signless by the force of the blow of the stone, falling here and there, fell upon the Blessed One's foot. But moreover, great king, for the ungrateful, miserly Devadatta's experiencing of suffering, the splinter fell upon the Blessed One's foot." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus I accept this as true."
The question on the foot struck by a splinter is the eighth.
9.
The Question on the Foremost of the Foremost Ascetics
9. "Venerable Nāgasena, this too was spoken by the Blessed One: 'With the elimination of the mental corruptions, he is an ascetic.' And again it was said:
Here these are the four qualities: patience, eating little, abandoning of delight, and nothingness. But all these exist for one whose mental corruptions are not eliminated, for one with mental defilements. If, Venerable Nāgasena, with the elimination of the mental corruptions he is an ascetic, then the statement 'Endowed with four qualities, him indeed they call an ascetic in the world' is wrong. If one endowed with four qualities is an ascetic, then the statement 'With the elimination of the mental corruptions, he is an ascetic' is also wrong. This too is a question with two points that has come to you; it should be resolved by you."
"This too was spoken, great king, by the Blessed One: 'With the elimination of the mental corruptions, he is an ascetic.' And again it was said: 'Endowed with four qualities, him indeed they call an ascetic in the world.' That statement, great king, was spoken with reference to the qualities of those various persons: 'Endowed with four qualities, him indeed they call an ascetic in the world'; but this is a statement without remainder: 'With the elimination of the mental corruptions, he is an ascetic.'
"Moreover, great king, whoever are practising for the peace of mental defilements, all of them, taking again and again, one who has eliminated the mental corruptions is declared the foremost ascetic. Just as, great king, whatever water-born and land-born flowers there are, jasmine is declared the foremost among them; whatever remaining various kinds of flowers there are, all of them are indeed flowers, but taking again and again, jasmine alone is the flower wished for and desired by people. Just so, great king, whoever are practising for the peace of mental defilements, all of them, taking again and again, one who has eliminated the mental corruptions is declared the foremost ascetic.
"Or else, great king, among all grains, rice is declared the foremost; whatever remaining various kinds of grains there are, all of them, taking again and again, are foods for the sustenance of the body, but rice alone is declared the foremost among them. Just so, great king, whoever are practising for the peace of mental defilements, all of them, taking again and again, one who has eliminated the mental corruptions is declared the foremost ascetic." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus I accept this as true."
The question on the foremost of the foremost ascetics is the ninth.
10.
The Question on Speaking Praise
10. "Venerable Nāgasena, this too was spoken by the Blessed One: 'Monks, if others speak in praise of me, or in praise of the Teaching, or in praise of the Community, therein you should not feel joy, pleasure, or mental elation.' And yet the Truth-finder, when the brahmin Sela was speaking praise in conformity with the truth, delighted, glad, elated, spoke highly of his own qualities even more and further -
By righteousness I turn the wheel, the wheel that cannot be turned back.'
"If, Venerable Nāgasena, it was spoken by the Blessed One: 'Monks, if others speak in praise of me, or in praise of the Teaching, or in praise of the Community, therein you should not feel joy, pleasure, or mental elation,' then the statement that when the brahmin Sela was speaking praise in conformity with the truth, he, delighted, glad, elated, spoke highly of his own qualities even more and further, is wrong. If when the brahmin Sela was speaking praise in conformity with the truth, he, delighted, glad, elated, spoke highly of his own qualities even more and further, then that statement 'Monks, if others speak in praise of me, or in praise of the Teaching, or in praise of the Community, therein you should not feel joy, pleasure, or mental elation' is also wrong. This too is a question with two points that has come to you; it should be resolved by you."
"This too was spoken, great king, by the Blessed One: 'Monks, if others speak in praise of me, or in praise of the Teaching, or in praise of the Community, therein you should not feel joy, pleasure, or mental elation.' And when the brahmin Sela was speaking praise in conformity with the truth, his own qualities were spoken highly of even more and further -
By righteousness I turn the wheel, the wheel that cannot be turned back.'
"First, great king, by the Blessed One, while illuminating the Teaching's characteristic of intrinsic nature and function, its intrinsic nature, unerring, factual, true, and true in meaning, it was spoken: 'Monks, if others speak in praise of me, or in praise of the Teaching, or in praise of the Community, therein you should not feel joy, pleasure, or mental elation.' But that which was spoken highly of by the Blessed One as his own qualities even more and further, when the brahmin Sela was speaking praise in conformity with the truth - 'I am a king, Sela,' said the Blessed One, 'the unsurpassed king of righteousness' - that was not because of material gain, not because of fame, not for one's own sake, not because of faction, not from desire for pupils, but rather out of compassion, out of pity, for the sake of welfare, thinking 'Thus there will be full realization of the teaching for this one and for three hundred young men'; thus his own qualities were spoken of even more and further - 'I am a king, Sela,' said the Blessed One, 'the unsurpassed king of righteousness.' "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus I accept this as true."
The question on speaking praise is the tenth.
11.
The Question on Restraining through Non-Violence
11. "Venerable Nāgasena, this too was spoken by the Blessed One: 'Not harming another in the world, you will become dear, devoted to me.' And again it was said: 'One should restrain one deserving restraint, one should encourage one deserving encouragement.' Restraint, Venerable Nāgasena, means cutting off of hands, cutting off of feet, murder, imprisonment, torture, killing, disruption of continuity; this statement is not fitting for the Blessed One, nor is the Blessed One worthy to speak this statement. If, Venerable Nāgasena, it was spoken by the Blessed One: 'Not harming another in the world, you will become dear, devoted to me,' then the statement 'One should restrain one deserving restraint, one should encourage one deserving encouragement' is wrong. If it was spoken by the Truth-finder: 'One should restrain one deserving restraint, one should encourage one deserving encouragement,' then the statement 'Not harming another in the world, you will become dear, devoted to me' is also wrong. This too is a question with two points that has come to you; it should be resolved by you."
"This too was spoken, great king, by the Blessed One: 'Not harming another in the world, you will become dear, devoted to me,' and it was said: 'One should restrain one deserving restraint, one should encourage one deserving encouragement.' 'Not harming another in the world, you will become dear, devoted to me' - this, great king, is approved by all Truth-finders; this is the instruction, this is the proclamation of the Teaching; for the Teaching, great king, has the characteristic of non-violence; this is a statement of intrinsic nature. But that which, great king, the Truth-finder said: 'One should restrain one deserving restraint, one should encourage one deserving encouragement' - this is a manner of speaking; the agitated mind, great king, should be restrained; the sluggish mind should be encouraged. Unwholesome consciousness should be restrained; wholesome consciousness should be encouraged. Unwise attention should be restrained; wise attention should be encouraged. One wrongly practising should be restrained; one rightly practising should be encouraged. The ignoble one should be restrained; the noble one should be encouraged. A thief should be restrained; a non-thief should be encouraged."
"Let it be so, Venerable Nāgasena, now you have come back to my domain; what I ask, that purpose has been attained by me. But, Venerable Nāgasena, how should a thief be restrained by one who restrains?" "A thief, great king, should be restrained by one who restrains thus: one deserving rebuke should be rebuked, one deserving punishment should be punished, one deserving banishment should be banished, one deserving imprisonment should be imprisoned, one deserving execution should be executed." "But, Venerable Nāgasena, is the execution of thieves approved by the Truth-finders?" "No indeed, great king." "But why is a thief to be instructed approved by the Truth-finders?" "He who, great king, is executed, is not executed by the approval of the Truth-finders; he is executed by what was done by himself; but he is instructed by the instruction of the Teaching. But is it possible, great king, for you to seize and execute an innocent man who has committed no offence, walking along the street?" "It is not possible, venerable sir." "For what reason, great king?" "Because of his innocence, venerable sir." "Just so indeed, great king, a thief is not killed by the approval of the Truth-finders; he is killed by what was done by himself. But does the instructor here commit any fault?" "No indeed, venerable sir." "If so, great king, the instruction of the Truth-finders is right instruction." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus I accept this as true."
The question on restraining through non-violence is the eleventh.
12.
The Question on the Dismissal of a Monk
12. "Venerable Nāgasena, this too was spoken by the Blessed One: 'I am without wrath, free from barrenness,' yet the Truth-finder dismissed the elders Sāriputta and Moggallāna together with their following. Did indeed, venerable Nāgasena, the Truth-finder dismiss the assembly being angry, or did he dismiss them being satisfied? Know this much, this is the name of it. If, venerable Nāgasena, he dismissed the assembly being angry, then the Truth-finder's wrath was not turned back; if he dismissed them being satisfied, then they were dismissed without grounds by one not knowing. This too is a question with two points that has come to you; it should be resolved by you."
"This too was spoken, great king, by the Blessed One: 'I am without wrath, free from barrenness,' and the elders Sāriputta and Moggallāna together with their following were dismissed, but that was not by irritation. Here, great king, some man, having stumbled on a root or a stump or a stone or a potsherd or an uneven piece of ground of the great earth, falls. Does indeed, great king, the great earth, being angry, cause him to fall?" "No indeed, venerable sir, there is no irritation or confidence in the great earth; the great earth is free from favouritism and aversion; he himself, being lazy, having stumbled, fell." "Just so indeed, great king, there is no irritation or confidence in the Truth-finders; the Truth-finders, Worthy Ones, Fully Enlightened by themselves are free from favouritism and aversion; but they were dismissed by their own deed, by their own offence.
"But here, great king, the great ocean does not associate with a dead corpse; whatever dead corpse there is in the great ocean, it quickly throws it out, pushes it onto dry land. Does indeed, great king, the great ocean, being angry, throw out that corpse?" "No indeed, venerable sir, there is no irritation or confidence in the great ocean; the great ocean is free from favouritism and aversion." "Just so indeed, great king, there is no irritation or confidence in the Truth-finders; the Truth-finders, Worthy Ones, Fully Enlightened by themselves are free from favouritism and aversion; but they were dismissed by their own deed, by their own offence.
"Just as, great king, one who has stumbled on the earth falls, so one who has stumbled in the excellent Dispensation of the Conqueror is dismissed. Just as, great king, a dead corpse is thrown out in the ocean, so one who has stumbled in the excellent Dispensation of the Conqueror is dismissed. But those whom, great king, the Truth-finder dismissed, wishing for their welfare, wishing for their benefit, wishing for their happiness, wishing for their purification, thinking 'thus these will be released from birth, ageing, disease, and death,' he dismissed them." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus I accept this as true."
The question on the dismissal of a monk is the twelfth.
The Dismissal Chapter is the third.
In this chapter there are twelve questions.