3.
The Chapter about Vessantara
1.
The Question on Vessantara
1. "Venerable Nāgasena, do all Bodhisattas give away their children and wife, or was children and wife given only by King Vessantara?" "All Bodhisattas, great king, give away their children and wife, not only by King Vessantara was children and wife given." "And yet, venerable Nāgasena, do they give with their consent?" "The wife, great king, consented, but the children lamented due to their childishness; if they had known the meaning, they too would have rejoiced, they would not have lamented."
"A difficult thing, venerable Nāgasena, was done by the Bodhisatta, in that he gave his own legitimate dear sons to the brahmin for the purpose of slavery.
"This second thing too is more difficult than the difficult, in that he, having bound his own legitimate dear sons, young children, tender ones, with a creeper, looked on with equanimity seeing them being stroked with the creeper by that brahmin.
"This third thing too is more difficult than the difficult, in that he, when the children having freed themselves from the bonds by their own strength came back filled with fear, again bound them with a creeper and gave them away.
"This fourth thing too is more difficult than the difficult, in that he did not console the children lamenting 'This demon, dear father, is taking us away to eat' with 'Do not be afraid.'
"This fifth thing too is more difficult than the difficult, in that he did not accept thus the entreaty of the prince Jālī who, weeping, having fallen at his feet, was begging 'Enough, dear father, turn back Kaṇhājinā, I myself will go with the demon, let the demon eat me.'
"This sixth thing too is more difficult than the difficult, in that he did not show compassion to the prince Jālī who was lamenting 'Surely your heart, dear father, is like a stone, in that you, looking at us suffering, being led away by a demon in the great forest devoid of humans, did not prevent him.'
"This seventh thing too is more difficult than the difficult, in that when the children were led away by that terrifying, dreadful one and had gone out of sight, his heart did not split into a hundred or a thousand pieces. What has a human being desiring merit to do with causing suffering to others? Should not one's own gift be given?"
"Because of doing the difficult, great king, the fame of the Bodhisatta has risen up in the ten-thousand-fold world system among gods and humans; the gods proclaim it in the heavenly abode, the titans proclaim it in the titan abode, the garuḷas proclaim it in the garuḷa abode, the serpents proclaim it in the serpent abode, the demons proclaim it in the demon abode; gradually that fame has reached in succession from then until now here to our time. Are we, sitting here praising and examining that gift, discussing whether it was well-given or badly given? And this fame, great king, shows ten qualities of the subtle, wise, learned, intelligent Bodhisattas. What are the ten? Freedom from greed, freedom from attachment, generosity, abandoning, non-returning, subtlety, greatness, difficulty of understanding, rarity, and incomparability of the Buddha's Teaching - this fame, great king, shows these ten qualities of the subtle, wise, learned, intelligent Bodhisattas."
"Venerable Nāgasena, one who gives a gift having caused suffering to another, does that gift have pleasant results and lead to heaven?" "Yes, great king, what is there to say?" "Come now, venerable Nāgasena, show me a reason." "Here, great king, suppose some ascetic or brahmin is moral, of good character, and he might be paralysed or a cripple or afflicted with some disease; whoever desiring merit, having placed him on a vehicle, might convey him to the place he wished for - would any happiness arise for that man on that account, would that action lead to heaven?" "Yes, venerable sir, what is there to say? That man, venerable sir, might obtain an elephant vehicle or a horse vehicle or a chariot vehicle, on land a land vehicle, in water a water vehicle, among gods a divine vehicle, among humans a human vehicle; he would be reborn in existence after existence with what is suitable and appropriate; suitable and appropriate happinesses would arise for him; from a fortunate world he would go to a fortunate world; by that very outflow of action, having ascended the vehicle of supernormal power, he would reach the wished-for city of Nibbāna." "If so, great king, a gift given by causing suffering to another has pleasant results and leads to heaven, in that that man, having caused suffering to oxen, experiences such happiness.
"Furthermore, great king, listen to a reason how a gift given through causing suffering to others results in happiness and leads to heaven. Here, great king, suppose any king, having collected righteous taxes from the country, were to give a gift by the exercise of authority, would that king, great king, on that account experience any happiness, that gift leading to heaven?" "Yes, venerable sir, what need is there to say? On that account, venerable sir, that king would obtain many hundreds of thousands of times more. He would become a king above kings, a god above gods, a Brahmā above Brahmās, an ascetic above ascetics, a brahmin above brahmins, a Worthy One above Worthy Ones." "If so, great king, a gift given through causing suffering to others results in happiness and leads to heaven, since that king, having oppressed the people with taxes, by the gift given, experiences such further happiness and fame."
"Excessive giving, venerable Nāgasena, was given by King Vessantara, in that he gave his own wife to another for the purpose of being his wife, he gave his own legitimate sons to a brahmin for the purpose of being slaves. Excessive giving, venerable Nāgasena, is blamed and censured by the wise in the world. Just as, venerable Nāgasena, by an excessive load the axle of a cart breaks, by an excessive load a boat sinks, by excessive eating food is digested abnormally, by excessive rain grain perishes, by excessive giving one comes to the destruction of wealth, by excessive heat the earth is scorched, by excessive lust one becomes mad, by excessive hate one becomes fit to be killed, by excessive delusion one falls into calamity, by excessive greed one undergoes seizure as a thief, by excessive fear one is obstructed, by excessive fullness a river overflows, by excessive wind a thunderbolt falls, by excessive fire cooked rice boils over, by excessive wandering one does not live long. Just so indeed, venerable Nāgasena, excessive giving is blamed and censured by the wise in the world; excessive giving, venerable Nāgasena, was given by King Vessantara; no fruit should be expected from that."
"Excessive giving, great king, is praised, extolled, and commended by the wise in the world; whoever gives whatever kind of gift, the giver of excessive gifts attains fame in the world. Just as, great king, a divine forest root, due to its extreme excellence, even when grasped does not show itself to other people standing within arm's reach; a medicine, due to its extreme potency, is an uprooter of affliction, a destroyer of diseases; fire, due to its extreme brightness, burns; water, due to its extreme coolness, extinguishes; a lotus, due to its purity, is not tainted by water and mud; a gem, due to its extreme quality, grants desires; a diamond, due to its extreme sharpness, pierces gems, pearls, and crystal; the earth, due to its extreme greatness, supports humans, serpents, beasts, birds, water, rocks, mountains, and trees; the ocean, due to its extreme greatness, is unfillable; Sineru, due to its extreme weight, is immovable; space, due to its extreme vastness, is endless; the sun, due to its extreme radiance, destroys darkness; a lion, due to its extreme birth, is without fear; a wrestler, due to his extreme strength, quickly throws down his opponent; a king, due to his extreme merit, is a ruler; a monk, due to his extreme morality, is worthy of homage by serpents, demons, humans, and gods; the Buddha, due to his extreme supremacy, is incomparable. Just so indeed, great king, excessive giving is praised, extolled, and commended by the wise in the world; whoever gives whatever kind of gift, the giver of excessive gifts attains fame in the world; through excessive giving, King Vessantara was praised, extolled, commended, honoured, and celebrated in the ten-thousand-fold world system; by that very excessive giving, King Vessantara has now today become the Buddha, the foremost in the world with its gods.
"But is there, great king, in the world a gift that should be withheld, which should not be given when one worthy of offerings has not arrived?" "There are indeed, venerable Nāgasena, these ten gifts which are considered not-gifts in the world; whoever gives those gifts, he goes to a realm of misery. What are the ten? The gift of intoxicants, venerable Nāgasena, is considered a not-gift in the world; whoever gives that gift, he goes to a realm of misery. The gift of entertainment, etc. The gift of women, etc. The gift of a bull, etc. The gift of paintings, etc. The gift of weapons, etc. The gift of poison, etc. The gift of fetters, etc. The gift of fowl and pigs, etc. The gift of false scales and false measures, venerable Nāgasena, is considered a not-gift in the world; whoever gives that gift, he goes to a realm of misery. These, venerable Nāgasena, are the ten gifts considered not-gifts in the world; whoever gives those gifts, he goes to a realm of misery."
"I am not asking you, great king, about what is considered a not-gift; this is what I ask you, great king: 'Is there, great king, in the world a gift that should be withheld, which should not be given when one worthy of offerings has not arrived?'" "There is not, venerable Nāgasena, in the world a gift that should be withheld. Which should not be given when one worthy of offerings has not arrived - when confidence of mind has arisen, some give food to those worthy of offerings, some give clothing, some give beds, some give public rest-houses, some give spreads and cloaks, some give female and male slaves, some give fields and sites, some give two-footed and four-footed animals, some give a hundred, a thousand, a hundred thousand, some give a great kingdom, some even give their lives." "If, great king, some even give their lives, why do you excessively criticise Vessantara, the master of giving, when his children and wife were well given?
"Is there, great king, a worldly custom, a worldly practice, that a father may pledge or sell his child when oppressed by debt or driven by livelihood?" "Yes, venerable sir, a father may pledge or sell his child when oppressed by debt or driven by livelihood." "If, great king, a father may pledge or sell his child when oppressed by debt or driven by livelihood, King Vessantara too, great king, not obtaining the knowledge of omniscience, troubled and afflicted, for the attainment of that wealth of the Teaching, pledged and sold his children and wife. Thus, great king, what was given by King Vessantara to others was indeed given, what was done was indeed done. Why then do you, great king, excessively disparage Vessantara, the master of giving, because of that gift?"
"I do not, venerable Nāgasena, censure the gift of Vessantara, the master of giving; but when children and wife are requested, one should give oneself in exchange." "This indeed, great king, is an unreasonable argument, that when children and wife are requested, one should give oneself; for whatever is requested, that very thing should be given; this is the action of good persons. Just as, great king, if some man were to have drinking water brought, and someone were to give him food, would that man, great king, be doing what should be done for him?" "No indeed, venerable sir; giving him that very thing which he has brought, one would be doing what should be done." "Just so indeed, great king, when the brahmin requested children and wife, King Vessantara gave just the children and wife. If, great king, the brahmin were to request Vessantara's body, he, great king, would not protect himself, would not tremble, would not be attached; his body would be given and relinquished. If, great king, anyone were to approach Vessantara, the master of giving, and request 'Become a slave for me,' his body would be given and relinquished; he would not regret having given; the body of King Vessantara, great king, was common to many.
"Just as, great king, a cooked piece of flesh is common to many, even so, great king, the body of King Vessantara was common to many. Or else, great king, just as a tree bearing fruit is common to various groups of birds, even so, great king, the body of King Vessantara was common to many. Why? 'Thus practising, I shall attain perfect enlightenment.'
"Just as, great king, a man who is poor, desiring wealth, wandering in search of wealth, goes along the goat-path, the stake-path, the cane-path, engages in trade by water and land, strives for wealth by body, speech, and mind, endeavours for the acquisition of wealth. Even so, great king, Vessantara, the master of giving, poor in the Buddha's wealth, for the acquisition of the jewel of omniscient knowledge, having given up to beggars wealth and grain, female and male slaves, vehicles and conveyances, all his property, his own children and wife, and himself, seeks only perfect enlightenment.
"Or else, great king, a minister desiring a seal, for the sake of the seal, whatever wealth and grain, gold and silver there is in the house, having given all that, strives for the acquisition of the seal. Even so, great king, Vessantara, the master of giving, having given all that external and internal wealth, having given even his life to others, seeks only perfect enlightenment.
"Moreover, great king, this occurred to Vessantara, the master of giving: 'Whatever that brahmin requests, giving just that to him, I am called one who does what should be done,' thus he gave his children and wife to him. Indeed, great king, Vessantara, the master of giving, did not give his children and wife to the brahmin out of hatred, did not give his children and wife out of desire not to see them, did not give his children and wife thinking 'my children and wife are too many, I am not able to support them,' did not give his children and wife out of discontent, out of desire to remove them thinking 'they are not dear to me.' But because of the dearness of the jewel of omniscient knowledge, for the sake of omniscient knowledge, King Vessantara gave to the brahmin such an incomparable, vast, unsurpassed, dear, agreeable, beloved, dear as life, excellent gift of children and wife.
"This too was spoken, great king, by the Blessed One, the god above gods, in the Conduct Collection:
Omniscience is dear to me, therefore I gave what is dear.'
"Therefore, great king, King Vessantara, having given the gift of his children, having entered the leaf-hut, lay down. For him, distressed by excessive love, powerful grief arose, his heart-base became hot. His nose not being sufficient, he released hot in-breaths and out-breaths through his mouth; his tears, having turned, becoming drops of blood, came out from his eyes. Even so, great king, with suffering King Vessantara gave his children and wife to the brahmin, thinking 'may my path of giving not decline.'
"Moreover, great king, King Vessantara gave the two children to the brahmin dependent on two reasons. Which two? 'My path of giving will not decline, and from here my grandfather will release my distressed little children from forest roots and fruits.' For King Vessantara knows, great king: 'My children cannot be enjoyed by anyone as slaves; my grandfather will redeem these children, thus there will be a going for us too.' These, great king, are the two reasons dependent on which he gave the two children to the brahmin.
"Moreover, great king, King Vessantara knows: 'This brahmin is old, aged, elderly, weak, broken, dependent on a staff, with exhausted life span, of little merit; he is not capable of enjoying these children as slaves.' But could, great king, a man by his natural power, having taken these moon and sun, so mighty, so powerful, having put them in a box or a casket, having made them without radiance, enjoy them for use as a plate?" "No indeed, venerable sir." "Even so, great king, in this world, the children of Vessantara, who is comparable to the moon and sun, cannot be enjoyed by anyone as slaves.
"Furthermore, great king, listen to a reason by which reason the children of Vessantara cannot be enjoyed by anyone as slaves. Just as, great king, the jewel gem of a wheel-turning monarch, beautiful, of good birth, octagonal, well-polished, four cubits in length, with the circumference of a cart-hub, cannot be wrapped by anyone in a rag, put in a box, and enjoyed for use as a knife and whetstone, even so, great king, in the world, the children of Vessantara, who is comparable to the jewel gem of a wheel-turning monarch, cannot be enjoyed by anyone as slaves.
"Furthermore, great king, listen to a reason by which reason the children of Vessantara cannot be enjoyed by anyone as slaves. Just as, great king, Uposatha the king of elephants, in three-fold rut, all white, standing on seven supports, eight ratanas in height, nine ratanas in length and circumference, pleasing, handsome, cannot be covered by anyone with a winnowing basket or a saucer, or put in a calf-shed like a cow's calf and looked after, even so, great king, in the world, the children of Vessantara, who is comparable to Uposatha the king of elephants, cannot be enjoyed by anyone as slaves.
"Furthermore, great king, listen to a reason by which reason the children of Vessantara cannot be enjoyed by anyone as slaves. Just as, great king, the great ocean, long, broad, extended, deep, immeasurable, hard to cross, unfathomable, uncovered, cannot be covered everywhere by anyone and made for use at a single landing place, even so indeed, great king, the children of Vessantara, who is comparable to the great ocean in the world, could not be enjoyed by anyone as slaves.
"Furthermore, great king, listen to a reason by which reason the children of Vessantara cannot be enjoyed by anyone as slaves. Just as, great king, the Himalaya, the king of mountains, five hundred yojanas high, three thousand yojanas in length and breadth in the sky, adorned with eighty-four thousand peaks, the source of five hundred great rivers, a dwelling place for hosts of great beings, bearing various kinds of odours, decorated with hundreds of divine medicines, appears risen high in the sky like a rain cloud, even so indeed, great king, the children of Vessantara, who is comparable to the Himalaya, the king of mountains, in the world, could not be enjoyed by anyone as slaves.
"Furthermore, great king, listen to a reason by which reason the children of Vessantara cannot be enjoyed by anyone as slaves. Just as, great king, in the darkness of the night, a great mass of fire burning on a mountain peak is discerned even from very far away, even so indeed, great king, King Vessantara, like a great mass of fire burning on a mountain peak, is well-known and discerned even from very far away; his children could not be enjoyed by anyone as slaves.
"Furthermore, great king, listen to a reason by which reason the children of Vessantara cannot be enjoyed by anyone as slaves. Just as, great king, on the Himalaya mountain, at the time of the ironwood tree flowers, when a straight wind blows, the odour of flowers blows for ten or twelve yojanas, even so indeed, great king, for King Vessantara, even for thousands of yojanas, up to the Akaniṭṭha realm, in between here, in the abodes of gods, titans, garuḷas, gandhabbas, demons, rakkhasas, great serpents, kinnaras, and Indra, a sound of fame has arisen, and the odour of his excellent morality blows forth; therefore his children could not be enjoyed by anyone as slaves. Great king, the prince Jālī was instructed by his father King Vessantara: 'Your grandfather, dear son, redeeming you by giving wealth to the brahmin, let him redeem by giving that thousand gold coins; redeeming Kaṇhājinā, let him redeem by giving a hundred of each - a hundred male slaves, a hundred female slaves, a hundred elephants, a hundred horses, a hundred cows, a hundred bulls, a hundred gold coins. If, dear son, your grandfather takes you from the brahmin's hand by command, by force, for nothing, do not do your grandfather's word; be followers of the brahmin only.' Having thus instructed, he sent his sons. Then Prince Jālī, having gone, when asked by his grandfather, said:
And Kaṇhājinā the maiden, with a hundred elephants as well.'
"Well unravelled, Venerable Nāgasena, is the question; the net of wrong views has been well broken; the opposing doctrines have been well crushed; one's own doctrine has been well illuminated; the phrasing has been well purified; the meaning has been well analysed; thus I accept this as true."
The question on Vessantara is the first.
2.
The Question on the Performance of Austerities
2. "Venerable Nāgasena, do all Bodhisattas perform the performance of austerities, or was the performance of austerities done only by the Bodhisatta Gotama?" "There is not, great king, a performance of austerities for all Bodhisattas; the performance of austerities was done only by the Bodhisatta Gotama."
"Venerable Nāgasena, if so, it is inappropriate that there is distinction among Bodhisattas." "There is distinction among Bodhisattas, great king, in four respects. Which four? Distinction in family, distinction in striving, distinction in lifespan, distinction in measure. By these four respects, great king, there is distinction among Bodhisattas. For all Buddhas, great king, in form, in morality, in concentration, in wisdom, in liberation, in knowledge and vision of liberation, in the four grounds of self-confidence, in the ten powers of the Truth-finder, in the six kinds of knowledge not shared with others, in the fourteen kinds of Buddha-knowledge, in the eighteen qualities of a Buddha, and in the entire virtues of a Buddha, there is no distinction; all Buddhas are exactly equal in the qualities of a Buddha."
"If, Venerable Nāgasena, all Buddhas are exactly equal in the qualities of a Buddha, for what reason was the performance of austerities done only by the Bodhisatta Gotama?" "When knowledge was not fully matured, great king, when enlightenment was not fully matured, the Bodhisatta Gotama went forth into renunciation; the performance of austerities was done by one who was maturing the unmatured knowledge."
"Venerable Nāgasena, for what reason did the Bodhisatta make the great renunciation when knowledge was not fully matured, when enlightenment was not fully matured? Should one not go forth when knowledge is fully matured, having matured the knowledge?"
"The Bodhisatta, great king, having seen the women's quarters in disarray, became remorseful; for him who was remorseful, discontent arose. Having seen the mind of discontent arisen, a certain young god of Māra's retinue, thinking 'This is the time for dispelling the mind of discontent,' standing in the sky, spoke these words:
'Dear sir, do not be dissatisfied. On the seventh day from now, the divine wheel treasure will appear for you, with a thousand spokes, with rim, with nave, complete in every respect; and treasures on earth and in the sky will come to you of their own accord. In the four great continents with their two thousand surrounding small islands, command will proceed with one voice. And you will have more than a thousand sons, brave, heroic in form, crushers of enemy armies. Surrounded by those sons, possessed of the seven treasures, you will rule over the four continents.'
Just as an iron stake heated all day, burning everywhere, might enter the ear-hole, even so, great king, that word entered the ear-hole of the Bodhisatta. Thus he, already dissatisfied by nature, by the word of that deity became even more alarmed, agitated, and stirred.
Just as, great king, a great mass of fire burning, when fuelled with other wood, would burn even more, even so, great king, the Bodhisatta, already dissatisfied by nature, by the word of that deity became even more alarmed, agitated, and stirred.
Or just as, great king, the great earth, naturally moist, with green grass sprouted, sprinkled with water, become muddy, when a great rain cloud has rained upon it, would become even muddier, even so, great king, the Bodhisatta, already dissatisfied by nature, by the word of that deity became even more alarmed, agitated, and stirred."
"But indeed, Venerable Nāgasena, if the divine wheel treasure were to arise for the Bodhisatta on the seventh day, would the Bodhisatta turn back when the divine wheel treasure had arisen?" "No indeed, great king, the divine wheel treasure would not arise for the Bodhisatta on the seventh day; but it was spoken falsely by that deity for the purpose of enticement. Even if, great king, the divine wheel treasure were to arise on the seventh day, the Bodhisatta would not turn back. What is the reason? 'Impermanent' - the Bodhisatta, great king, firmly grasped this; 'suffering, non-self' - he firmly grasped this; he had reached the destruction of clinging.
Just as, great king, water from Lake Anotatta enters the river Ganges, from the river Ganges enters the great ocean, from the great ocean enters the mouth of the abyss - would that water, great king, having gone to the mouth of the abyss, having turned back, enter the great ocean, from the great ocean enter the river Ganges, from the river Ganges enter Anotatta again?" "No indeed, venerable sir." "Just so indeed, great king, wholesome merit was matured by the Bodhisatta during a hundred thousand cosmic cycles and four incalculable periods for the sake of this existence; having reached this final existence, with enlightenment-knowledge fully matured, in six years he will become a Buddha, omniscient, the foremost person in the world. Would the Bodhisatta, great king, turn back for the sake of the wheel treasure?" "No indeed, venerable sir."
"But moreover, great king, the great earth with its forests and mountains might overturn, yet the Bodhisatta would not turn back without attaining perfect enlightenment. Even if, great king, the water of the Ganges were to flow upstream, yet the Bodhisatta would not turn back without attaining perfect enlightenment; Even if, great king, the great ocean holding immeasurable water were to dry up like water in a cow's hoofprint, yet the Bodhisatta would not turn back without attaining perfect enlightenment; Even if, great king, Mount Sineru, the king of mountains, were to split into a hundred or a thousand pieces, yet the Bodhisatta would not turn back without attaining perfect enlightenment; Even if, great king, the moon and sun with their stars were to fall to the ground like clods of earth, yet the Bodhisatta would not turn back without attaining perfect enlightenment; Even if, great king, space were to roll up like a mat, yet the Bodhisatta would not turn back without attaining perfect enlightenment. Why? Because all bonds had been burst asunder."
"Venerable Nāgasena, how many bondages are there in the world?" "There are indeed, great king, these ten bondages in the world, by which bondages bound beings do not go forth, and even having gone forth, they turn back. What are the ten? Mother, great king, is a bondage in the world; father, great king, is a bondage in the world; wife, great king, is a bondage in the world; sons, great king, are a bondage in the world; relatives, great king, are a bondage in the world; friends, great king, are a bondage in the world; wealth, great king, is a bondage in the world; material gain and honour, great king, are a bondage in the world; supremacy, great king, is a bondage in the world; the five types of sensual pleasure, great king, are a bondage in the world. These, great king, are the ten bondages in the world, by which bondages bound beings do not go forth, and even having gone forth, they turn back. Those ten bondages of the Bodhisatta were cut and burst apart; therefore, great king, the Bodhisatta does not turn back."
"Venerable Nāgasena, if the Bodhisatta, when discontent had arisen in his mind, by the word of the deity, with knowledge not yet matured, with enlightenment not yet matured, went forth into renunciation, what was the purpose of his performance of austerities? Should not one who is waiting for the maturing of knowledge be an eater of everything?"
"There are indeed, great king, these ten persons in the world who are looked down upon, despised, scorned, mocked, blamed, treated with contempt, and disrespected. What are the ten? A widow, great king, is looked down upon, despised, scorned, mocked, blamed, treated with contempt, and disrespected in the world. A weak person, great king, etc. One without relatives, great king, is a person, etc. A gluttonous person, great king, etc. One not dwelling in a respected family, great king, is a person, etc. One with evil friends, great king, is a person, etc. One lacking wealth, great king, is a person, etc. One lacking good conduct, great king, is a person, etc. One lacking action, great king, is a person, etc. One lacking exertion, great king, is a person looked down upon, despised, scorned, mocked, blamed, treated with contempt, and disrespected in the world. These, great king, are the ten persons in the world who are looked down upon, despised, scorned, mocked, blamed, treated with contempt, and disrespected. Recollecting these ten states, great king, this perception arose in the Bodhisatta: 'May I not be one lacking action, lacking exertion, blamed by gods and humans; what if I were to be a master of action, respecting action, having action as authority, having action as habit, bearing the yoke of action, having action as my abode, dwelling diligently.' Thus indeed, great king, the Bodhisatta, while maturing knowledge, performed austerities."
"Venerable Nāgasena, the Bodhisatta, while performing austerities, said thus: 'Yet I do not by this bitter performance of austerities attain any super-human achievement, any distinction of knowledge and vision worthy of the noble ones; could there be another path to enlightenment?' Was there then at that time forgetfulness regarding the path for the Bodhisatta?"
"There are indeed, great king, these twenty-five mental states that weaken the mind, by which a weakened mind does not rightly become concentrated for the elimination of mental corruptions. What are the twenty-five? Wrath, great king, is a mental state that weakens the mind, by which a weakened mind does not rightly become concentrated for the elimination of mental corruptions; hostility, etc. Contempt, etc. Insolence, etc. Envy, etc. Stinginess, etc. Deceit, etc. Fraudulence, etc. Obstinacy, etc. Impetuosity, etc. Conceit... etc. arrogance... Vanity, etc. Negligence, etc. Sloth and torpor, etc. Weariness, etc. Laziness, etc. Evil friendship, etc. Forms, etc. Sounds, etc. Odours, etc. Flavours, etc. Tangible objects, etc. Hunger and thirst, etc. Discontent, great king, is a mental state that weakens the mind, by which a weakened mind does not rightly become concentrated for the elimination of mental corruptions. These, great king, are the twenty-five mental states that weaken the mind, by which a weakened mind does not rightly become concentrated for the elimination of mental corruptions.
For the Bodhisatta, great king, hunger and thirst overpowered the body; when the body was overpowered, the mind does not rightly become concentrated for the elimination of mental corruptions. For a hundred thousand cosmic cycles, great king, and four incalculable cosmic cycles, the Bodhisatta sought the full realisation of just the four noble truths in those various births; how then could there be forgetfulness concerning the path in his final existence, in the birth of full realisation? But, great king, a mere perception arose for the Bodhisatta: 'Could there be another path to enlightenment?' Formerly indeed, great king, the Bodhisatta, being one month old, while his father the Sakyan was working, seated on a royal couch in the cool shade of a rose-apple tree, folding his legs crosswise, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unwholesome mental states, having attained, dwelt in the first meditative absorption, which is accompanied by applied thought and sustained thought, with rapture and happiness born of seclusion, etc. having attained, he dwelt in the fourth meditative absorption." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus I accept this as true: the Bodhisatta performed austerities while ripening his knowledge."
The question on the performance of austerities is the second.
3.
The Question on the Greater Power of Wholesome and Unwholesome
3. "Venerable Nāgasena, which is exceeding, more powerful - wholesome or unwholesome?" "Wholesome, great king, is exceeding, more powerful, not so unwholesome." "I do not accept that statement, venerable Nāgasena, 'wholesome is exceeding, more powerful, not so unwholesome.' Here, venerable Nāgasena, killers of living beings, takers of what is not given, those who engage in sexual misconduct, liars, village destroyers, road corrupters, cheats, deceivers are seen - all of them by that much evil obtain cutting off of hands, cutting off of feet, cutting off of hands and feet, cutting off of ears, cutting off of nose, cutting off of ears and nose, the gruel-pot torture, the shell-tonsure torture, the Rāhu's mouth torture, the fire-garland torture, the hand-torch torture, the grass-strip torture, the bark-dress torture, the antelope torture, the flesh-hook torture, the coin-cutting torture, the lye-pickling torture, the pivot-turning torture, the straw-chair torture, being sprinkled with boiling oil, being made to be eaten by dogs, impalement alive, beheading with a sword. Some, having done evil at night, experience the result at night itself; some, having done it at night, experience it by day itself; some, having done it by day, experience it by day itself; some, having done it by day, experience it at night itself; some experience it after two or three days have passed - all of them experience the result in this very life. But is there, venerable Nāgasena, anyone who, having given a gift with retinue to one or two or three or four or five or ten or a hundred or a thousand or a hundred thousand, experienced wealth or fame or happiness pertaining to the present life through morality or through the Observance practice?"
"There are, great king, four men who, having given gifts, having taken upon themselves morality, having performed the Observance practice, in this very life, with that very bodily form, reached the city of the devas." "Who and who, venerable sir?" "King Mandhātā, great king, King Nimi, King Sādhīna, and the gandhabba Guttila."
"Venerable Nāgasena, that is separated by many thousands of existences; that is beyond the sight of both of us. If you are able, tell of the present existence, during the time when the Blessed One was living." "Even in the present existence, great king, the slave Puṇṇaka, having given food to the Elder Sāriputta, on that very day attained the position of treasurer; he is now known as Puṇṇaka the treasurer. Queen Gopālamātā, having sold her own hair, with the eight coins obtained, having given almsfood to the Elder Mahākaccāyana together with seven others, on that very day attained the position of chief queen of King Candapajjota. The female lay follower Suppiyā, having given food for convalescence made from the flesh of her own thigh to a certain sick monk, on the very second day became one with healed wound, with restored skin, healthy. Queen Mallikā, having given a lump of barley-gruel from the previous evening to the Blessed One, on that very day became the chief queen of the King of Kosala. Sumana the garland-maker, having venerated the Blessed One with eight handfuls of jasmine flowers, on that very day attained great success. The brahmin with one cloth, having venerated the Blessed One with his upper cloth, on that very day obtained everything eightfold. All these, great king, experienced wealth and fame pertaining to the present life."
"Venerable Nāgasena, having searched and sought, you saw only six people." "Yes, great king." "If so, venerable Nāgasena, unwholesome alone is exceeding, more powerful, not so wholesome. For I, venerable Nāgasena, in a single day see even ten men being impaled on stakes as the result of evil action; I see twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, a hundred men, a thousand men being impaled on stakes as the result of evil action. Of the Nanda family, venerable Nāgasena, there was a general's son named Bhaddasāla. And with King Candagutta a battle was fully engaged. In that battle, venerable Nāgasena, on both sides of the army there were eighty headless-body forms; when one head-and-trunk fell, one headless-body form arose. All these fell into calamity and disaster as the result of evil action alone. By this reason too, venerable Nāgasena, I say unwholesome alone is exceeding, more powerful, not so wholesome."
"Is it heard, venerable Nāgasena, that in this Buddha's Dispensation an incomparable gift was given by the King of Kosala?" "Yes, great king, it is heard." "But indeed, venerable Nāgasena, did the King of Kosala, having given that incomparable gift, obtain on that account any wealth or fame or happiness pertaining to the present life?" "No indeed, great king." "If, venerable Nāgasena, the King of Kosala, even having given such an unsurpassed gift, did not obtain on that account any wealth or fame or happiness pertaining to the present life, then, venerable Nāgasena, unwholesome alone is exceeding, more powerful, not so wholesome."
"Because of its smallness, great king, unwholesome ripens quickly; because of its extensiveness, wholesome ripens over a long time. This, great king, should be examined even by simile. Just as, great king, in the western country there is a grain type called kumudabhaṇḍikā which is reaped in a month and brought inside the house, while rice ripens in five or six months - what then, great king, is the difference, what is the distinction between kumudabhaṇḍikā and rice?" "Because of its smallness, venerable sir, of kumudabhaṇḍikā, and because of the extensiveness of rice. Rice, venerable Nāgasena, is worthy of kings, food for kings; kumudabhaṇḍikā is food for slaves and workers." "Just so indeed, great king, because of its smallness, unwholesome ripens quickly; because of its extensiveness, wholesome ripens over a long time."
"Whatever therein, venerable Nāgasena, matures quickly, that indeed in the world is exceeding, more powerful; therefore unwholesome is more powerful, not so wholesome. Just as, venerable Nāgasena, whatever warrior, having entered a great battle, having seized the enemy by the armpit, having dragged him, might bring him very quickly to his master, that warrior in the world is called able and heroic. And whatever physician quickly extracts a dart and removes the disease, that physician is called skilled. Whatever accountant, having calculated very quickly, quickly shows the result, that accountant is called skilled. Whatever wrestler quickly lifts up his opponent and throws him down on his back, that wrestler is called able and heroic. Just so indeed, venerable Nāgasena, whatever matures quickly, whether wholesome or unwholesome, that in the world is exceeding, more powerful."
"Both of those, great king, are actions to be experienced in a future state; but unwholesome, because of its blameworthiness, is experienced in the present life in a moment. By the warriors of old, great king, this procedure was established: 'Whoever kills a living being, he is worthy of punishment, etc. whoever takes what is not given, etc. whoever goes to another's wife, etc. whoever speaks falsely, etc. whoever sacks a village, etc. whoever spoils the road, etc. whoever commits fraud, etc. whoever commits deception, he is worthy of punishment, should be killed, should be cut, should be broken, should be slain.' Taking that as basis, having investigated and investigated, they punish, they kill, they cut, they break, and they slay. But is there, great king, any procedure established by anyone: 'Whoever gives a gift, or guards morality, or performs the Observance practice, to him wealth or fame should be given'? Do they, having investigated and investigated, give wealth or fame, like the killing and imprisonment for a thief who has committed a deed?" "No indeed, venerable sir." "If, great king, having investigated and investigated, they would give wealth or fame to donors, wholesome too would be experienced in the present life. But because, great king, they do not investigate donors thinking 'We shall give wealth or fame,' therefore wholesome is not experienced in the present life. By this reason, great king, unwholesome is experienced in the present life; in the future state indeed he experiences exceeding, more powerful feeling." "Excellent, venerable Nāgasena, without one wise like you this question could not be well unravelled; the mundane, venerable Nāgasena, has been made known by the supramundane."
The question on the greater power of wholesome and unwholesome is the third.
4.
The Question on the Deceased Spirits of the Past and so on
4. "Venerable Nāgasena, these donors, having given a gift, dedicate it to deceased spirits: 'May this reach them.' Do they obtain any result on that account?" "Some, great king, obtain, some do not obtain." "Who, venerable sir, obtain, who do not obtain?" "Those reborn in hell, great king, do not obtain; those gone to heaven do not obtain; those gone to the animal realm do not obtain; of four kinds of ghosts, three kinds of ghosts do not obtain - those who feed on vomit, those afflicted by hunger and thirst, those consumed by craving; ghosts who live on what is given by others obtain; and they too obtain only when remembering."
"If so, venerable Nāgasena, the gift of the donors is dried up, fruitless, if those for whom it was made do not obtain it?" "No indeed, great king, that gift is not fruitless, not without result; the donors themselves experience its fruit." "If so, venerable Nāgasena, convince me by a reason." "Here, great king, some people, having prepared fish, meat, liquor, food and sweets, go to their relatives' family. If those relatives were not to accept that tribute, would that tribute go dried up or perish?" "No indeed, venerable sir, it would belong just to the owners." "Just so indeed, great king, the donors themselves experience its fruit. But, great king, if a man who has entered an inner room, when there is no exit in front, by what would he exit?" "By the way he entered, venerable sir." "Just so indeed, great king, the donors themselves experience its fruit." "Let it be, venerable Nāgasena, thus I accept this as true: the donors themselves experience its fruit; we do not dispute that reason.
Venerable Nāgasena, if the gift given by these donors reaches the deceased spirits, and they experience its result, then if one who kills living beings, cruel, with bloody hands, with corrupted mental intention, having killed people, having done a cruel deed, were to dedicate to deceased spirits: 'May the result of this action of mine reach the deceased spirits,' would its result reach the deceased spirits?" "No indeed, great king."
"Venerable Nāgasena, what is the cause there, what is the reason, by which the wholesome reaches but the unwholesome does not reach?" "This, great king, is not a question to be asked. And do not, great king, thinking 'there is one who can answer,' ask what should not be asked. 'Why is space unsupported, why does the Ganges not flow upwards, why are these humans and birds two-footed and deer four-footed?' - you will ask me that too." "I do not ask that, venerable Nāgasena, seeking to trouble, but I ask for the purpose of removing doubt. Many people in the world are going the wrong way, without vision. 'How might they not gain access?' - thus I ask that." "It is not possible, great king, to share evil action together with one who has not done it, who has not consented.
Just as, great king, people carry water even very far by means of a water channel, is it possible, great king, to carry a compact great rock mountain by a channel wherever one wishes?" "No indeed, venerable sir." "Just so indeed, great king, it is possible to share the wholesome, it is not possible to share the unwholesome. Or else, great king, it is possible to light a lamp with oil; is it possible, great king, to light a lamp with water?" "No indeed, venerable sir." "Just so indeed, great king, it is possible to share the wholesome, it is not possible to share the unwholesome. Or else, great king, farmers, having drawn water from a lake, ripen grain; is it possible, great king, having drawn water from the great ocean, to ripen grain?" "No indeed, venerable sir." "Just so indeed, great king, it is possible to share the wholesome, it is not possible to share the unwholesome."
"Venerable Nāgasena, for what reason is it possible to share wholesome, but not possible to share unwholesome? Convince me by a reason; I am not blind, without light - having heard I will know." "Unwholesome, great king, is little; wholesome is much. Because of its littleness, unwholesome is exhausted by the doer alone; because of its muchness, wholesome spreads over the world with its gods." "Give a simile."
"Just as, great king, if a small single drop of water were to fall on the earth, would that drop of water, great king, spread over ten or twelve yojanas?" "No indeed, venerable sir; where that drop of water fell, right there it is exhausted." "For what reason, great king?" "Because of the smallness, venerable sir, of the drop of water." "Just so indeed, great king, unwholesome being small, because of its smallness, is exhausted by the doer alone; it is not possible to share.
"Or just as, great king, a great rain cloud might pour down, satisfying the surface of the earth, would that great rain cloud, great king, spread over all around?" "Yes, venerable sir, having filled pools, lakes, rivers, channels, grottoes, crevices, reservoirs, tanks, wells and ponds, that great rain cloud would spread over ten or twelve yojanas." "For what reason, great king?" "Because of the greatness, venerable sir, of the rain cloud." "Just so indeed, great king, wholesome is much; because of its muchness, it is possible to share even with gods and humans."
"Venerable Nāgasena, for what reason is unwholesome little and wholesome more?" "Here, great king, whoever gives a gift, takes upon himself morality, performs the Observance practice, he is glad, delighted, smiling, greatly pleased, with a gladdened mind, filled with joy; for him rapture arises again and again; for one whose mind is filled with rapture, wholesome grows more and more.
"Just as, great king, in a well full of much water, water might enter from one direction and exit from another; even as it exits, it arises again and again; it is not possible to bring it to exhaustion. Just so indeed, great king, wholesome grows more and more. Even if for a hundred years, great king, a man were to reflect upon wholesome done, with each reflection, wholesome grows more and more. That wholesome of his is possible to share with whomever he wishes; this, great king, is the reason here, by which reason wholesome is more.
"But one doing unwholesome, great king, afterwards becomes remorseful; the mind of one who is remorseful shrinks back, contracts, turns away, does not expand, grieves, is tormented, diminishes, is exhausted, does not grow, and is exhausted right there. Just as, great king, in a dry river with a great sandbank, with elevations and depressions, with bends and curves, a small amount of water coming from above diminishes, is exhausted, does not grow, and is exhausted right there. Just so indeed, great king, the mind of one doing unwholesome shrinks back, contracts, turns away, does not expand, grieves, is tormented, diminishes, is exhausted, does not grow, and is exhausted right there; this, great king, is the reason here, by which reason unwholesome is little." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus I accept this as true."
The question on the deceased spirits of the past and so on is the fourth.
5.
The Question on Dreams
5. "Venerable Nāgasena, in this world men and women see dreams, both good and evil, both seen before and not seen before, both done before and not done before, both secure and fearful, both far and near, and manifold thousands of various kinds are seen. What is this thing called a dream, and who sees it?" "This, great king, is a sign called a dream, which comes into the range of consciousness. There are these six, great king, who see dreams: one of wind humour sees a dream, one of bile humour sees a dream, one of phlegm humour sees a dream, one sees a dream through divine intervention, one sees a dream through habitual practice, one sees a dream through an advanced sign. Therein, great king, whatever dream one sees through an advanced sign, that alone is true, the rest is false."
"Venerable Nāgasena, one who sees a dream through an advanced sign, does his consciousness itself go and select that sign, or does that sign come into the range of consciousness, or does another come and inform him?" "No, great king, his consciousness does not itself go and select that sign, nor does anyone else come and inform him, but rather that very sign comes into the range of consciousness. Just as, great king, a mirror does not itself go anywhere and select a reflection, nor does anyone else bring a reflection and place it on the mirror, but rather a reflection comes from somewhere and comes into the range of the mirror, just so indeed, great king, his consciousness does not itself go and select that sign, nor does anyone else come and inform him, but rather a sign comes from somewhere and comes into the range of consciousness."
"Venerable Nāgasena, that consciousness which sees a dream, does that consciousness know 'such will be the result, whether security or danger'?" "No indeed, great king, that consciousness does not know 'such will be the result, whether security or danger', but when the sign has arisen, one tells others, and then they explain the meaning."
"Come now, venerable Nāgasena, show me a reason." "Just as, great king, moles, boils, and skin eruptions arise on the body for gain or loss, for fame or disrepute, for blame or praise, for happiness or suffering, do those boils, great king, arise knowing 'we shall produce this particular result'?" "No indeed, venerable sir, in whatever place those boils arise, there, having seen those boils, interpreters of signs declare 'such will be the result'." "Just so indeed, great king, that consciousness which sees a dream, that consciousness does not know 'such will be the result, whether security or danger', but when the sign has arisen, one tells others, and then they explain the meaning."
"Venerable Nāgasena, one who sees a dream, does he see it while sleeping or while awake?" "Whoever, great king, sees a dream, he does not see it while sleeping, nor does he see it while awake. But when torpor has descended and the life-continuum has not been reached, in between here one sees a dream. For one who has ascended into torpor, great king, consciousness has gone to the life-continuum; consciousness gone to the life-continuum does not proceed; consciousness that does not proceed does not understand happiness and suffering; for one not understanding there is no dream; when consciousness is proceeding one sees a dream.
Just as, great king, in gloom, in darkness, in dim light, even in a very pure mirror a reflection is not seen, just so indeed, great king, when consciousness has ascended into torpor and gone to the life-continuum, even though the body remains, consciousness does not proceed; when consciousness does not proceed one does not see a dream. Just as, great king, a mirror, so should the body be seen; just as darkness, so should torpor be seen; just as light, so should consciousness be seen.
"Or just as, great king, when the sun is covered by frost, the radiance of the sun is not seen, though the sun's rays exist they do not proceed, and when the sun's rays do not proceed there is no light, just so indeed, great king, for one who has ascended into torpor, the mind has gone to the life-continuum, the mind that has gone to the life-continuum does not proceed, when the mind does not proceed one does not see a dream. Just as, great king, the sun, so should the body be seen; just as the covering of frost, so should torpor be seen; just as the sun's rays, so should the mind be seen.
"For two, great king, even while the body exists, the mind does not proceed: for one who has ascended into torpor and gone to the life-continuum, even while the body exists, the mind does not proceed; for one who has attained cessation, even while the body exists, the mind does not proceed. For one who is awake, great king, the mind is fickle, open, unconcealed, unbound; for one of such nature, a sign does not come within range of the mind. Just as, great king, those desiring secrecy avoid a man who is open, unconcealed, inactive, without secrets, just so indeed, great king, for one who is awake, a divine matter does not come within range; therefore one who is awake does not see a dream. Or just as, great king, for a monk of broken livelihood, of misconduct, of evil friends, immoral, lazy, of inferior energy, wholesome qualities conducive to enlightenment do not come within range, just so indeed, great king, for one who is awake, a divine matter does not come within range; therefore one who is awake does not see a dream."
"Venerable Nāgasena, is there a beginning, middle, and end of torpor?" "Yes, great king, there is a beginning, middle, and end of torpor." "Which is the beginning, which is the middle, which is the end?" "That which, great king, is the covering and enveloping of the body, the weakness, the sluggishness, the unfitness for work of the body, this is the beginning of torpor; that which, great king, is when one overcome by light sleep watches intermittently, this is the middle of torpor; going to the life-continuum is the end. One who has reached the middle, great king, overcome by light sleep, sees a dream. Just as, great king, someone of restrained conduct, with concentrated mind, stable in nature, of unshakeable understanding, having abandoned the sound of curiosity, having plunged into the midst of the forest, reflects on a subtle matter, and he does not fall into torpor there, he, concentrated there with fully focused mind, penetrates the subtle matter, just so indeed, great king, one who is awake, not having attained torpor, having reached the middle, overcome by light sleep, sees a dream. Just as, great king, the sound of curiosity, so should wakefulness be seen; just as a secluded forest, so should one overcome by light sleep be seen; just as he, having abandoned the sound of curiosity, having avoided torpor, having become neutral, penetrates the subtle matter, so one who is awake, not having attained torpor, overcome by light sleep, sees a dream." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus I accept this as true."
The question on dreams is the fifth.
6.
The Question on Untimely Death
6. "Venerable Nāgasena, those beings who die, do they all die at the proper time, or do some die at an improper time?" "There is, great king, death at the proper time, and there is death at an improper time."
"Venerable Nāgasena, who die at the proper time, who die at an improper time?" "Have you, great king, previously seen mango trees or rose-apple trees, or from another fruit tree, fruits falling, both unripe and ripe?" "Yes, venerable sir." "Those fruits, great king, that fall from the tree, do they all fall at the proper time, or at an improper time?" "Those fruits, venerable Nāgasena, that fall fully ripe and loosened, all those fall at the proper time. But those remaining fruits among them, some fall worm-eaten, some fall struck by a stick, some fall struck by the wind, some fall having become rotten inside, all those fall at an improper time." "Just so, great king, those who die struck by the force of ageing, they indeed die at the proper time; the rest, some die oppressed by action, some die oppressed by destination, some die oppressed by activity."
"Venerable Nāgasena, those who die oppressed by action, those who die oppressed by destination, those who die oppressed by activity, those who die oppressed by the force of ageing, all of them die at the proper time only. Even one who dies in the mother's womb, that is his time, he dies at the proper time. Even one who dies in the birth-house, that is his time, he too dies at the proper time. Even one who dies at a month old, etc. Even one who dies at a hundred years old, that is his time, he dies at the proper time. Therefore, venerable Nāgasena, there is no such thing as untimely death; whoever dies, they all die at the proper time only."
"These seven, great king, die at an improper time even while further life span exists. Which seven? One who is hungry, great king, not obtaining food, with damaged interior, dies at an improper time even while further life span exists; one who is thirsty, great king, not obtaining drinking water, with dried-up heart, dies at an improper time even while further life span exists; one bitten by a snake, great king, overcome by the force of poison, not obtaining a physician, dies at an improper time even while further life span exists; one who has consumed poison, great king, with limbs and minor limbs burning, not obtaining medicine, dies at an improper time even while further life span exists; one who has entered fire, great king, burning, not obtaining extinguishing, dies at an improper time even while further life span exists; one who has entered water, great king, not obtaining a foothold, dies at an improper time even while further life span exists; one struck by a spear, great king, being sick, not obtaining a physician, dies at an improper time even while further life span exists. These, great king, are the seven who die at an improper time even while further life span exists. Therein I, great king, speak definitely.
"In eight ways, great king, death occurs for beings: by wind-originated disorder, by bile-originated disorder, by phlegm-originated disorder, by a combination of these, by change of season, by improper care, by external attack, by the result of action, great king, death occurs for beings. Therein, great king, that which is death by the result of action, that alone is timely death; the rest is untimely death." And there is this:
By fire, water, and spears, one dies there at an improper time;
By wind, bile, and phlegm, by their combination and by seasons;
By improper care, external attack, and action, one dies there at an improper time."
"Some beings, great king, die by the result of this or that unwholesome action done before. Here, great king, whoever formerly kills others by hunger, he for many hundreds of thousands of years, oppressed by hunger, starving, exhausted, with dried and withered heart, famished, parched, burning, internally scorching, dies by hunger alone, whether young, middle-aged, or old; this too is his timely death.
"Whoever formerly kills others by thirst, he for many hundreds of thousands of years, having become a ghost, being one consumed by thirst, rough, emaciated, with dried-up heart, dies by thirst alone, whether young, middle-aged, or old; this too is his timely death.
"Whoever formerly kills others by having them bitten by a snake, he for many hundreds of thousands of years, having transformed from python-mouth to python-mouth, from black-snake-mouth to black-snake-mouth, repeatedly eaten by them, dies bitten by snakes alone, whether young, middle-aged, or old; this too is his timely death.
"Whoever formerly kills others by giving poison, he for many hundreds of thousands of years, with burning limbs and minor limbs, with body breaking apart, emitting the smell of a corpse, dies by poison alone, whether young, middle-aged, or old; this too is his timely death.
"Whoever formerly kills others by fire, he for many hundreds of thousands of years, having rolled from one mountain of embers to another mountain of embers, from one domain of Yama to another domain of Yama, with body burnt and half-burnt, dies by fire alone, whether young, middle-aged, or old; this too is his timely death.
"Whoever formerly kills others by water, he for many hundreds of thousands of years, with body destroyed, plundered, broken, and weak, with agitated mind, dies by water alone, whether young, middle-aged, or old; this too is his timely death.
"Whoever formerly kills others by a spear, he for many hundreds of thousands of years, cut, split, pounded, and crushed, struck by the point of a spear, dies by a spear alone, whether young, middle-aged, or old; this too is his timely death."
"Venerable Nāgasena, as you say that there is untimely death, come, explain to me the reason for that." "Just as, great king, a great mass of fire, having taken up grass, sticks, branches, and leaves, with its fuel exhausted, is quenched by the extinction of clinging, that fire is called 'quenched at the right time, without harm, without danger'; just so, great king, whoever, having lived for many thousands of days, worn out by old age, dies by the exhaustion of life-span, without harm, without danger, he is called 'one who has reached death at the right time.'
"Or just as, great king, there might be a great mass of fire that has taken up grass, sticks, branches, and leaves, and while that grass, sticks, branches, and leaves are not yet exhausted, a great rain cloud, having rained down, might extinguish it - would that great mass of fire, great king, be called 'quenched at the right time'?" "No indeed, venerable sir." "But why, great king, did that latter mass of fire not have the same destination as the former mass of fire?" "Venerable sir, oppressed by a visiting rain cloud, that mass of fire was quenched at the wrong time." Just so, great king, whoever dies at the wrong time, he, oppressed by a visiting disease - whether originating from wind, or originating from bile, or originating from phlegm, or from a combination of humours, or produced by change of season, or produced by improper care, or by external attack, or by hunger, or by thirst, or by snake bite, or by eating poison, or by fire, or by water, or oppressed by the force of a spear - dies at the wrong time. This, great king, is the reason by which there is untimely death.
"Or just as, great king, a great rain cloud, having arisen in the sky, filling both the low ground and the high, rains down, it is called 'the cloud rains without harm, without danger.' Just so, great king, whoever, having lived long, worn out by old age, dies by the exhaustion of life-span, without harm, without danger, he is called 'one who has reached death at the right time.'
"Or just as, great king, a great rain cloud, having arisen in the sky, might right there in between pass away by a great wind - would that great rain cloud, great king, be called 'departed at the right time'?" "No indeed, venerable sir." "But why, great king, did that latter rain cloud not have the same destination as the former rain cloud?" "Venerable sir, oppressed by a visiting wind, that rain cloud departed without reaching the right time." "Just so, great king, whoever dies at the wrong time, he, oppressed by a visiting disease - whether originating from wind, etc. or oppressed by the force of a spear - dies at the wrong time. This, great king, is the reason by which there is untimely death.
"Or just as, great king, a powerful venomous snake, angered, might bite some person, and that poison might bring him to death without harm, without danger, that poison is called 'without harm, without danger, having reached its end.' Just so, great king, whoever, having lived long, worn out by old age, dies by the exhaustion of life-span, without harm, without danger, he is called 'without harm, without danger, having reached the end of life, having reached timely death.'
"Or just as, great king, for one bitten by a powerful venomous snake, right there in between a snake charmer, having given medicine, might render it non-poisonous - would that poison, great king, be called 'departed at the right time'?" "No indeed, venerable sir." "But why, great king, did that latter poison not have the same destination as the former poison?" "Venerable sir, oppressed by a visiting medicine, that poison departed without reaching its end." "Just so, great king, whoever dies at the wrong time, he, oppressed by a visiting disease - whether originating from wind, etc. or oppressed by the force of a spear - dies at the wrong time. This, great king, is the reason by which there is untimely death.
"Or just as, great king, an archer might shoot an arrow; if that arrow goes to the end of its natural path of travel, that arrow is called 'without harm, without danger, having gone to the end of its natural path of travel.' Just so, great king, whoever, having lived long, worn out by old age, dies by the exhaustion of life-span, without harm, without danger, he is called 'without harm, without danger, having reached death at the right time.'
"Or else, great king, suppose an archer were to shoot an arrow, and someone were to catch that arrow at that very moment, would that arrow, great king, be called one that has gone to the end of its natural path of travel?" "No indeed, venerable sir." "But why, great king, did the latter arrow not have the same destination as the former arrow?" "Because, venerable sir, by the visiting act of catching, the going of that arrow was interrupted." "Just so, great king, whoever dies at the wrong time, he, oppressed by a visiting disease - whether originating from wind, etc. or oppressed by the force of a spear - dies at the wrong time. This, great king, is the reason by which there is untimely death.
"Or else, great king, whoever might strike a metal vessel, by that striking a sound having arisen goes to the end of its natural path of travel, that sound is called 'free from harm, free from danger, one that has gone to the end of its natural path of travel.' Just so, great king, whoever having lived for many thousands of days, worn out by old age, dies through the exhaustion of life-span, free from harm, free from danger, he is called 'free from harm, free from danger, one who has reached death at the right time.'
"Or else, great king, whoever might strike a metal vessel, by that striking a sound might arise, and when the sound has arisen, not having gone far, someone might touch it, and together with the touching the sound might cease, would that sound, great king, be called one that has gone to the end of its natural path of travel?" "No indeed, venerable sir." "But why, great king, did the latter sound not have the same destination as the former sound?" "Because, venerable sir, by the visiting act of touching, that sound ceased." "Just so, great king, whoever dies at the wrong time, he, oppressed by a visiting disease - whether originating from wind, etc. or oppressed by the force of a spear - dies at the wrong time. This here, great king, is the reason by which there is untimely death.
"Or else, great king, a grain seed well-grown in a field, with rain falling properly, having become spread out, extended, scattered, and abundant in fruit, reaches the time for harvesting the crop, that grain is called 'free from harm, free from danger, one that has reached the right time.' Just so, great king, whoever having lived for many thousands of days, worn out by old age, dies through the exhaustion of life-span, free from harm, free from danger, he is called 'free from harm, free from danger, one who has reached death at the right time.'
"Or else, great king, if a grain seed well-grown in a field were to die, damaged by water, would that grain, great king, be called one that has not reached the right time?" "No indeed, venerable sir." "But why, great king, did the latter grain not have the same destination as the former grain?" "Because, venerable sir, that grain died, oppressed by visiting heat." "Just so, great king, whoever dies at the wrong time, he, oppressed by a visiting disease - whether originating from wind, etc. or oppressed by the force of a spear - dies at the wrong time. This, great king, is the reason by which there is untimely death.
"But have you heard before, great king, that 'worms having arisen destroy a flourishing young crop together with its roots'?" "We have both heard that before, venerable sir, and seen it before." "Was that crop, great king, destroyed at the right time, or destroyed at an untimely time?" "At an untimely time, venerable sir, for if, venerable sir, worms had not eaten that crop, it would have reached the time for harvesting the crop." "But, great king, does the crop perish by a visiting destruction, and does the crop without destruction reach the time for harvesting the crop?" "Yes, venerable sir." "Just so, great king, whoever dies at the wrong time, he, oppressed by a visiting disease - whether originating from wind, etc. or oppressed by the force of a spear, dies. This, great king, is the reason by which there is untimely death.
"But have you heard before, great king, 'When the crop is accomplished, bending with the weight of fruit, with leaves spread on the stalks, a type of rain called hail-storm, having fallen down, destroys it and makes it fruitless'?" "We have both heard that before, venerable sir, and seen it before." "Was that crop, great king, destroyed at the proper time, or destroyed at an improper time?" "At an improper time, venerable sir. If, venerable sir, that crop were not rained upon by hail-storm, it would reach the time for harvesting the crop." "But, great king, does the crop perish by a visiting destruction, and does the crop without destruction reach the time for harvesting the crop?" "Yes, venerable sir." "Just so, great king, whoever dies at an improper time, he, oppressed by a visiting disease - whether arising from wind, or arising from bile, or arising from phlegm, or from a combination of humours, or born from change of season, or born from improper care, or from external attack, or from hunger, or from thirst, or from snake-bite, or from having eaten poison, or from fire, or from water, or oppressed by the force of a weapon - dies at an improper time. But if he were not oppressed by a visiting disease, he would reach death at the proper time. This, great king, is the reason here, by which reason there is untimely death."
"Wonderful, venerable Nāgasena, marvellous, venerable Nāgasena, the reason has been well shown, the simile has been well shown for the illustration of untimely death. 'There is untimely death' has been made clear, made obvious, made manifest. Even a person without mental distraction, venerable Nāgasena, would come to the conclusion by even one simile that 'there is untimely death,' how much more a person with consciousness? I was convinced, venerable sir, by the very first simile that 'there is untimely death,' but wishing to hear further explanations, I did not accept it."
The question on untimely death is the sixth.
7.
The Question on the Wonder of the Shrine
7. "Venerable Nāgasena, do miracles occur at the shrines of all those who have attained final Nibbāna, or only of some?" "Of some, great king, they occur, of some they do not occur." "Of which, venerable sir, do they occur, of which do they not occur?" "Great king, by the determination of any one of three, miracles occur at the shrine of one who has attained final Nibbāna. Which three? Here, great king, a Worthy One, out of compassion for gods and humans, while still living, determines: 'May miracles occur at such-and-such a shrine'; by the power of his determination, miracles occur at the shrine. Thus, by the power of a Worthy One's determination, miracles occur at the shrine of one who has attained final Nibbāna.
"Furthermore, great king, deities, out of compassion for humans, display miracles at the shrine of one who has attained final Nibbāna, thinking: 'By this miracle, the Good Teaching will be constantly upheld, and humans, being devoted, will increase in wholesomeness.' Thus, by the power of the deities' determination, miracles occur at the shrine of one who has attained final Nibbāna.
"Furthermore, great king, a woman or a man who is faithful, devoted, wise, experienced, intelligent, endowed with higher intelligence, having wisely considered, having determined upon fragrance or a garland or cloth or something else, offers it at the shrine, thinking: 'May it be thus.' By the power of that one's determination too, miracles occur at the shrine of one who has attained final Nibbāna. Thus, by the power of humans' determination, miracles occur at the shrine of one who has attained final Nibbāna.
"Indeed, great king, by the power of the determination of any one of these three, miracles occur at the shrine of one who has attained final Nibbāna.
"If, great king, there is no determination by them, miracles do not occur at the shrine even of one who has eliminated the mental corruptions, who possesses the six higher knowledges, who has attained mastery of mind. Even when there is no miracle, great king, having seen the completely pure conduct, one should have confidence, one should come to a conclusion, one should believe: 'This son of the Buddha has well attained final Nibbāna.'" "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus I accept this as true."
The question on the wonder of the shrine is the seventh.
8.
The Question on the Full Realization of the Teaching
8. "Venerable Nāgasena, for those who proceed rightly, is there full realization of the teaching for all of them, or is there not for some?" "For some, great king, there is, for some there is not." "For whom, venerable sir, is there, for whom is there not?" "For one gone to the animal realm, great king, even if practising well, there is no full realization of the teaching; for one reborn in the sphere of ghosts, etc. for one holding wrong view, etc. for a cheat, etc. for a matricide, etc. for a patricide, etc. for a killer of an arahant, etc. for a schismatic, etc. for one who wounds, etc. for one who is in communion by theft, etc. for one gone over to other sects, etc. for a seducer of nuns, etc. for one who, having committed any one of the thirteen heavy offences, has not risen from it, etc. for a eunuch, etc. for a hermaphrodite, even if practising well, there is no full realization of the teaching, etc. Also for a young human being less than seven years old, even if practising well, there is no full realization of the teaching. For these sixteen persons, great king, even if practising well, there is no full realization of the teaching."
"Venerable Nāgasena, those fifteen persons are indeed opposed; whether there is or is not full realization of the teaching for them, then for what reason is there no full realization of the teaching for a young human being less than seven years old, even if practising well? Here first there is a question: 'Is it not so that for a young one there is no lust, there is no hate, there is no delusion, there is no conceit, there is no wrong view, there is no discontent, there is no sensual thought, unmixed with mental defilements; that young one, being fit and ready and deserving, should penetrate the four truths with a single penetration?'"
"That itself, great king, is the reason by which reason I say 'for one less than seven years old, even if practising well, there is no full realization of the teaching.' If, great king, one less than seven years old would find pleasure in what is enticing, would become corrupted towards what leads to hate, would become deluded towards what leads to infatuation, would become intoxicated towards what is intoxicating, would cognize view, would cognize delight and discontent, would think about the wholesome and unwholesome, there would be full realization of the teaching for him. But, great king, the mind of one less than seven years old is weak, feeble, limited, small, slight, dull, obscure; the unconditioned element of Nibbāna is heavy, weighty, extensive, great. One less than seven years old, great king, with that feeble, limited, dull, obscure mind, is not able to penetrate the heavy, weighty, extensive, great, unconditioned element of Nibbāna.
"Just as, great king, Sineru, the king of mountains, is heavy, weighty, extensive, great - could, great king, a man by his own natural strength and power and energy lift up Sineru, the king of mountains?" "No indeed, venerable sir." "For what reason, great king?" "Because of the weakness, venerable sir, of the man, because of the greatness of Sineru, the king of mountains." "Just so indeed, great king, the mind of one less than seven years old is weak, feeble, limited, small, slight, dull, obscure; the unconditioned element of Nibbāna is heavy, weighty, extensive, great. One less than seven years old, with that feeble, limited, dull, obscure mind, is not able to penetrate the heavy, weighty, extensive, great, unconditioned element of Nibbāna; for that reason, for one less than seven years old, even if practising well, there is no full realization of the teaching.
"Or else, great king, this great earth is long, extended, broad, spread out, extensive, wide, vast, and great. Is it possible, great king, to make that great earth into watery mud by moistening it with a small drop of water?" "No indeed, venerable sir." "For what reason, great king?" "Because of the smallness, venerable sir, of the drop of water, and because of the greatness of the great earth." Just so indeed, great king, the mind of one less than seven years old is weak, feeble, limited, small, slight, dull, and obscure, while the unconditioned element of Nibbāna is long, extended, broad, spread out, extensive, wide, vast, and great. One less than seven years old, with that feeble mind, limited, dull, and obscure, is not able to penetrate the great unconditioned element of Nibbāna; for that reason, even for one less than seven years old who practises well, there is no full realization of the teaching.
"Or else, great king, if there were a fire that is weak, feeble, limited, small, slight, and dull, would it be possible, great king, with that much dull fire to dispel the darkness in the world with its gods and show light?" "No indeed, venerable sir." "For what reason, great king?" "Because of the dullness, venerable sir, of the fire, and because of the greatness of the world." Just so indeed, great king, the mind of one less than seven years old is weak, feeble, limited, small, slight, dull, and obscure, and is covered by the great darkness of ignorance. Therefore it is difficult to show the light of knowledge; for that reason, even for one less than seven years old who practises well, there is no full realization of the teaching.
"Or else, great king, if a sick, emaciated worm with a minute and limited body, having seen a noble elephant in three-fold rut, nine cubits long, three cubits wide, ten cubits in circumference, eight cubits high, having reached its own place, were to try to swallow it, would that worm, great king, be able to swallow that noble elephant?" "No indeed, venerable sir." "For what reason, great king?" "Because of the smallness, venerable sir, of the worm, and because of the greatness of the noble elephant." Just so indeed, great king, the mind of one less than seven years old is weak, feeble, limited, small, slight, dull, and obscure, while the unconditioned element of Nibbāna is great. He, with that feeble mind, limited, dull, and obscure, is not able to penetrate the great unconditioned element of Nibbāna; for that reason, even for one less than seven years old who practises well, there is no full realization of the teaching." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus I accept this as true."
The question on the full realization of the teaching is the eighth.
9.
The Question on Nibbāna as Exclusively Pleasant
9. "Venerable Nāgasena, is Nibbāna exclusively pleasant, or is it mixed with suffering?" "Nibbāna, great king, is exclusively pleasant, not mixed with suffering."
"We do not believe that statement, venerable Nāgasena, 'Nibbāna is exclusively pleasant'; thus here we, venerable Nāgasena, conclude 'Nibbāna is mixed with suffering', and here we find a reason 'Nibbāna is mixed with suffering'. What is the reason here? Those who, venerable Nāgasena, seek Nibbāna, for them is seen ardour and torment of body and mind, restraint in standing, walking, sitting, lying down and food, and obstruction of torpor, and oppression of the sense bases, and abandoning of wealth, grain, dear ones, relatives and friends. Whoever in the world are happy, devoted to happiness, all of them delight and develop the sense bases with the five types of sensual pleasure; they delight and develop the eye with forms of many kinds of beautiful signs, pleasing and displeasing; they delight and develop the ear with sounds of many kinds of beautiful signs, pleasing and displeasing, of song and music; they delight and develop the nose with odours of many kinds of beautiful signs, pleasing and displeasing, of flowers, fruits, leaves, bark, roots and heartwood; they delight and develop the tongue with flavours of many kinds of beautiful signs, pleasing and displeasing, of hard food, soft food, food to be licked, food to be drunk and food to be tasted; they delight and develop the body with contacts of many kinds of beautiful signs, pleasing and displeasing, smooth, subtle, soft and gentle; they delight and develop the mind with attention of many kinds of applied thought, pleasing and displeasing, good and bad, beautiful and ugly. You strike and injure, cut and cut off, obstruct and block that development of eye, ear, nose, tongue, body and mind. By that the body is tormented, the mind too is tormented; when the body is tormented, one feels bodily painful feeling; when the mind is tormented, one feels mental painful feeling. Did not the wandering ascetic Māgaṇḍiya too, censuring the Blessed One, say thus: 'The ascetic Gotama is a destroyer of growth'? This is the reason here, by which reason I say 'Nibbāna is mixed with suffering.'"
"No indeed, great king, Nibbāna is not mixed with suffering; Nibbāna is exclusively pleasant. But as for what you, great king, say 'Nibbāna is suffering', that suffering is not called Nibbāna; rather this is the preliminary part for the realisation of Nibbāna, this is the quest for Nibbāna; Nibbāna is indeed exclusively pleasant, great king, not mixed with suffering. I will tell the reason here. Is there, great king, for kings something called the happiness of kingship?" "Yes, venerable sir, there is for kings the happiness of kingship." "Is that happiness of kingship, great king, mixed with suffering?" "No indeed, venerable sir." "But why then, great king, do kings, when the borderland is agitated, for the restraint of those dwelling in the borderland, surrounded by ministers, leaders, soldiers and army members, having gone abroad, afflicted by gadflies, mosquitoes, wind and heat, run about on even and uneven ground, and make great war, and reach danger to life?" "That, venerable Nāgasena, is not called the happiness of kingship; this is the preliminary part for the quest of the happiness of kingship. With suffering, venerable Nāgasena, kings, having sought kingship, experience the happiness of kingship. Thus, venerable Nāgasena, the happiness of kingship is not mixed with suffering; that happiness of kingship is one thing, suffering is another." "Just so indeed, great king, Nibbāna is exclusively pleasant, not mixed with suffering. But those who seek that Nibbāna, having tormented body and mind, having restrained standing, walking, sitting, lying down and food, having obstructed torpor, having oppressed the sense bases, having abandoned body and life, having sought Nibbāna with suffering, experience Nibbāna which is exclusively pleasant, like kings who experience the happiness of kingship after defeating their enemies. Thus, great king, Nibbāna is exclusively pleasant, not mixed with suffering; Nibbāna is one thing, suffering is another."
"Furthermore, great king, listen to a further reason that Nibbāna is exclusively pleasant, not mixed with suffering; suffering is one thing, Nibbāna is another. Is there, great king, for teachers who possess craft something called the happiness of craft?" "Yes, venerable sir, there is for teachers who possess craft the happiness of craft." "Is that happiness of craft, great king, mixed with suffering?" "No indeed, venerable sir." "But why then, great king, do teachers, by paying respect and rising up for teachers, by bringing water, sweeping the house, providing tooth-sticks and water for the mouth, by receiving leftovers, by rubbing, bathing and attending to the feet, having set aside their own mind, by following another's mind, by uncomfortable sleeping, by irregular food, torment the body?" "That, venerable Nāgasena, is not called the happiness of craft; this is the preliminary part for the quest of craft. With suffering, venerable Nāgasena, teachers, having sought craft, experience the happiness of craft. Thus, venerable Nāgasena, the happiness of craft is not mixed with suffering; that happiness of craft is one thing, suffering is another." "Just so indeed, great king, Nibbāna is exclusively pleasant, not mixed with suffering. But those who seek that Nibbāna, having tormented body and mind, having restrained standing, walking, sitting, lying down and food, having obstructed torpor, having oppressed the sense bases, having abandoned body and life, having sought Nibbāna with suffering, experience Nibbāna which is exclusively pleasant, like teachers the happiness of craft. Thus, great king, Nibbāna is exclusively pleasant, not mixed with suffering; suffering is one thing, Nibbāna is another." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus I accept this as true."
The question on Nibbāna as exclusively pleasant is the ninth.
10.
The Question on the Form and Shape of Nibbāna
10. "Venerable Nāgasena, as for what you say 'Nibbāna, Nibbāna', but is it possible to show the form or shape or passing away or measure of that Nibbāna by simile or by reason or by cause or by method?" "Nibbāna is without counterpart, great king; it is not possible to show the form or shape or passing away or measure of Nibbāna by simile or by reason or by cause or by method." "This I do not accept, Venerable Nāgasena, that there is no declaration of the form or shape or passing away or measure of Nibbāna, which is an existing phenomenon, by simile or by reason or by cause or by method; convince me by a reason." "Let it be so, great king, I will convince you by a reason. Is there, great king, what is called the great ocean?" "Yes, venerable sir, there is that great ocean." "If, great king, someone were to ask you thus: 'How much, great king, is the water in the great ocean, and how many are those beings who dwell in the great ocean?' - thus asked, great king, how would you answer him?" "If, venerable sir, someone were to ask me thus: 'How much, great king, is the water in the great ocean, and how many are those beings who dwell in the great ocean?' - I, venerable sir, would say thus to him: 'You ask me, my good man, what should not be asked; this question should not be asked by anyone; this question should be set aside. The great ocean has not been analysed by those who describe the world; it is not possible to measure the water in the great ocean or the beings who have come to dwell there' - thus, venerable sir, I would give him an answer."
"But why, great king, would you give such an answer about the great ocean, which is an existing phenomenon? Should it not be told to him after calculating: 'This much is the water in the great ocean, and this many beings dwell in the great ocean'?" "It is not possible, venerable sir; this question is outside the domain."
"Just as, great king, in the great ocean, which is indeed an existing phenomenon, it is not possible to calculate the water or the beings who have come to dwell there, just so indeed, great king, it is not possible to show the form or shape or passing away or measure of Nibbāna, which is indeed an existing phenomenon, by simile or by reason or by cause or by method. One possessing supernormal power, having attained mastery of mind, great king, might calculate the water in the great ocean and the beings dwelling there, but even that one possessing supernormal power, having attained mastery of mind, would not be able to show the form or shape or passing away or measure of Nibbāna by simile or by reason or by cause or by method.
"Furthermore, great king, listen to a further reason why it is not possible to show the form or shape or passing away or measure of Nibbāna, which is indeed an existing phenomenon, by simile or by reason or by cause or by method. Are there, great king, among the gods, gods called immaterial-bodied?" "Yes, venerable sir, it is heard: 'There are among the gods, gods called immaterial-bodied.'" "But is it possible, great king, to show the form or shape or passing away or measure of those immaterial-bodied gods by simile or by reason or by cause or by method?" "No indeed, venerable sir." "If so, great king, are there no immaterial-bodied gods?" "There are, venerable sir, immaterial-bodied gods, but it is not possible to show their form or shape or passing away or measure by simile or by reason or by cause or by method." "Just as, great king, it is not possible to show the form or shape or passing away or measure of the immaterial-bodied gods, who are indeed existing beings, by simile or by reason or by cause or by method, just so indeed, great king, it is not possible to show the form or shape or passing away or measure of Nibbāna, which is indeed an existing phenomenon, by simile or by reason or by cause or by method."
"Venerable Nāgasena, let Nibbāna be exclusively happiness, but it is not possible to show its matter or shape or passing away or measure by simile or by reason or by cause or by method. But is there, venerable sir, any simile and comparison whatsoever that has entered into the quality of Nibbāna from other things?" "In terms of its own form, great king, there is not, but in terms of quality it is possible to show some simile and comparison." "Excellent, venerable Nāgasena, in such a way that I may obtain even a partial illustration of the quality of Nibbāna, speak quickly thus, quench the fever of my heart, remove it with the breeze of cool and sweet words."
"One quality of the lotus, great king, has entered into Nibbāna, two qualities of water, three qualities of medicine, four qualities of the great ocean, five qualities of food, ten qualities of space, three qualities of the jewel gem, three qualities of red sandalwood, three qualities of the cream of ghee, five qualities of a mountain peak have entered into Nibbāna."
"Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'one quality of the lotus has entered into Nibbāna', what is the one quality of the lotus that has entered into Nibbāna?" "Just as, great king, a lotus is untainted by water, even so, great king, Nibbāna is untainted by all mental defilements. This, great king, is the one quality of the lotus that has entered into Nibbāna."
"Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'two qualities of water have entered into Nibbāna', what are the two qualities of water that have entered into Nibbāna?" "Just as, great king, water is cool and quenches fever, even so, great king, Nibbāna is cool and quenches the fever of all mental defilements. This, great king, is the first quality of water that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, water removes the thirst of people and cattle and offspring who are weary, parched, thirsty, and scorched by heat, even so, great king, Nibbāna removes the thirst of sensual craving, craving for existence, and craving for non-existence. This, great king, is the second quality of water that has entered into Nibbāna. These, great king, are the two qualities of water that have entered into Nibbāna."
"Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'three qualities of medicine have entered into Nibbāna', what are the three qualities of medicine that have entered into Nibbāna?" "Just as, great king, medicine is a refuge for beings oppressed by poison, even so, great king, Nibbāna is a refuge for beings oppressed by the poison of mental defilements. This, great king, is the first quality of medicine that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, medicine puts an end to diseases, even so, great king, Nibbāna puts an end to all suffering. This, great king, is the second quality of medicine that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, medicine is the Deathless, even so, great king, Nibbāna is the Deathless. This, great king, is the third quality of medicine that has entered into Nibbāna. These, great king, are the three qualities of medicine that have entered into Nibbāna."
"Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'four qualities of the great ocean have entered into Nibbāna', what are the four qualities of the great ocean that have entered into Nibbāna?" "Just as, great king, the great ocean is empty of all corpses, even so, great king, Nibbāna is empty of all corpses of mental defilements. This, great king, is the first quality of the great ocean that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, the great ocean is great, without a near or far shore, and is not filled by all rivers, even so, great king, Nibbāna is great, without a near or far shore, and is not filled by all beings. This, great king, is the second quality of the great ocean that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, the great ocean is the residence of great beings, even so, great king, Nibbāna is the residence of great Worthy Ones, great beings who are stainless, who have eliminated the mental corruptions, who have attained power, and who have become masters. This, great king, is the third quality of the great ocean that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, the great ocean is bedecked with the flowers of limitless, various, and extensive waves, even so, great king, Nibbāna is bedecked with the flowers of limitless, various, extensive, pure true knowledge and liberation. This, great king, is the fourth quality of the great ocean that has entered into Nibbāna. These, great king, are the four qualities of the great ocean that have entered into Nibbāna."
"Venerable Nāgasena, when you say 'five qualities of food have entered into Nibbāna', what are the five qualities of food that have entered into Nibbāna?" "Just as, great king, food sustains the life of all beings, even so, great king, Nibbāna when realized sustains life through the removal of ageing and death. This, great king, is the first quality of food that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, food increases the strength of all beings, even so, great king, Nibbāna when realized increases the supernormal power of all beings. This, great king, is the second quality of food that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, food produces beauty in all beings, even so, great king, Nibbāna when realized produces the beauty of virtues in all beings. This, great king, is the third quality of food that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, food appeases the disturbance of all beings, even so, great king, Nibbāna when realized appeases the disturbance of all mental defilements in all beings. This, great king, is the fourth quality of food that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, food removes the hunger and weakness of all beings, even so, great king, Nibbāna when realized removes the hunger and weakness of all suffering in all beings. This, great king, is the fifth quality of food that has entered into Nibbāna. These, great king, are the five qualities of food that have entered into Nibbāna."
"Venerable Nāgasena, as for this that you say 'ten qualities of space have entered into Nibbāna', what are the ten qualities of space that have entered into Nibbāna?" "Just as, great king, space is not born, does not age, does not die, does not pass away, does not arise, is difficult to overcome, cannot be taken by thieves, is independent, is the path of birds, is unobstructed, is infinite. Just so indeed, great king, Nibbāna is not born, does not age, does not die, does not pass away, does not arise, is difficult to overcome, cannot be taken by thieves, is independent, is the path of the noble ones, is unobstructed, is infinite. These, great king, are the ten qualities of space that have entered into Nibbāna."
"Venerable Nāgasena, as for this that you say 'three qualities of the jewel gem have entered into Nibbāna', what are the three qualities of the jewel gem that have entered into Nibbāna?" "Just as, great king, the jewel gem grants desires, just so indeed, great king, Nibbāna grants desires. This, great king, is the first quality of the jewel gem that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, the jewel gem brings delight, just so indeed, great king, Nibbāna brings delight. This, great king, is the second quality of the jewel gem that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, the jewel gem produces radiance, just so indeed, great king, Nibbāna produces radiance. This, great king, is the third quality of the jewel gem that has entered into Nibbāna. These, great king, are the three qualities of the jewel gem that have entered into Nibbāna."
"Venerable Nāgasena, as for this that you say 'three qualities of red sandalwood have entered into Nibbāna', what are the three qualities of red sandalwood that have entered into Nibbāna?" "Just as, great king, red sandalwood is rare, just so indeed, great king, Nibbāna is rare. This, great king, is the first quality of red sandalwood that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, red sandalwood has an incomparable fragrance, just so indeed, great king, Nibbāna has an incomparable fragrance. This, great king, is the second quality of red sandalwood that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, red sandalwood is praised by good people, just so indeed, great king, Nibbāna is praised by noble good people. This, great king, is the third quality of red sandalwood that has entered into Nibbāna. These, great king, are the three qualities of red sandalwood that have entered into Nibbāna."
"Venerable Nāgasena, as for this that you say 'three qualities of the cream of ghee have entered into Nibbāna', what are the three qualities of the cream of ghee that have entered into Nibbāna?" "Just as, great king, the cream of ghee is endowed with colour, just so indeed, great king, Nibbāna is endowed with the colour of virtues. This, great king, is the first quality of the cream of ghee that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, the cream of ghee is endowed with fragrance, just so indeed, great king, Nibbāna is endowed with the fragrance of morality. This, great king, is the second quality of the cream of ghee that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, the cream of ghee is endowed with flavour, just so indeed, great king, Nibbāna is endowed with flavour. This, great king, is the third quality of the cream of ghee that has entered into Nibbāna. These, great king, are the three qualities of the cream of ghee that have entered into Nibbāna."
"Venerable Nāgasena, as for this that you say 'five qualities of a mountain peak have entered into Nibbāna', what are the five qualities of a mountain peak that have entered into Nibbāna?" "Just as, great king, a mountain peak is very lofty, just so indeed, great king, Nibbāna is very lofty. This, great king, is the first quality of a mountain peak that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, a mountain peak is immovable, just so indeed, great king, Nibbāna is immovable. This, great king, is the second quality of a mountain peak that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, a mountain peak is difficult to climb, just so indeed, great king, Nibbāna is difficult to climb for all defilements. This, great king, is the third quality of a mountain peak that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, a mountain peak is a place where no seeds grow, just so indeed, great king, Nibbāna is a place where no defilements grow. This, great king, is the fourth quality of a mountain peak that has entered into Nibbāna. Furthermore, great king, a mountain peak is free from attachment and aversion, just so indeed, great king, Nibbāna is free from attachment and aversion. This, great king, is the fifth quality of a mountain peak that has entered into Nibbāna. These, great king, are the five qualities of a mountain peak that have entered into Nibbāna." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus I accept this as true."
The question on the form and shape of Nibbāna is the tenth.
11.
The Question on the Realization of Nibbāna
11. "Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'Nibbāna is not past, not future, not present, not arisen, not unarisen, not to be produced.' Here, Venerable Nāgasena, whoever is rightly practising realizes Nibbāna, does he realize what is arisen, or does he realize having produced it?" "Whoever, great king, is rightly practising realizes Nibbāna, he does not realize what is arisen, he does not realize having produced it; but moreover, great king, there is this element of Nibbāna, which one rightly practising realizes."
"Do not, Venerable Nāgasena, explain this question having made it concealed; having made it opened and manifest, explain it. I am desirous and eager; whatever has been trained by you, scatter all that right here. Here this person is confused, has become doubtful, has plunged into uncertainty; break this inner dart of fault." "There is, great king, this element of Nibbāna, peaceful, pleasant, sublime; one rightly practising, meditating on activities according to the Conqueror's instruction, realizes it with wisdom. Just as, great king, a pupil realizes true knowledge with wisdom according to the teacher's instruction, just so indeed, great king, one rightly practising realizes Nibbāna with wisdom according to the Conqueror's instruction.
"But how should that Nibbāna be seen?" It should be seen as free from affliction, free from danger, free from fear, as security, as peaceful, as pleasant, as comfortable, as sublime, as pure, as cool.
"Just as, great king, a man being burnt by fire with a large heap of firewood, blazing with burning wood, by effort having freed himself from there, having entered a place free from fire, would obtain the highest happiness there; just so indeed, great king, whoever is rightly practising, by wise attention realizes the highest happiness of Nibbāna, free from the torment of the threefold fire. Just as, great king, fire, so should the threefold fire be seen; just as a man gone into fire, so should one rightly practising be seen; just as a place free from fire, so should Nibbāna be seen.
"Or else, great king, just as a man gone into a heap of portions of bodily secretions of corpses of snakes, dogs, and humans, having entered among the tangled mass of corpses, by effort having freed himself from there, having entered a place free from corpses, would obtain the highest happiness there; just so indeed, great king, whoever is rightly practising, by wise attention realizes the highest happiness of Nibbāna, free from the corpse of mental defilements. Just as, great king, a corpse, so should the five types of sensual pleasure be seen; just as a man gone into corpses, so should one rightly practising be seen; just as a place free from corpses, so should Nibbāna be seen.
"Or else, great king, just as a man frightened, trembling, shaking, with mind perverted and confused, by effort having freed himself from there, having entered a firm, stable, unshakeable, fearless place, would obtain the highest happiness there; just so indeed, great king, whoever is rightly practising, by wise attention realizes the highest happiness of Nibbāna, free from fear and terror. Just as, great king, fear, so should the fear that occurs again and again dependent on birth, ageing, illness, and death be seen; just as a frightened man, so should one rightly practising be seen; just as a fearless place, so should Nibbāna be seen.
"Or else, great king, just as a man fallen in a defiled, dirty, muddy, miry place, by effort having washed away that mud and mire, having gone to a pure, spotless place, would obtain the highest happiness there; just so indeed, great king, whoever is rightly practising, by wise attention realizes the highest happiness of Nibbāna, free from the mire of defilement and stain. Just as, great king, mud, so should material gain, honour, and fame be seen; just as a man gone into mud, so should one rightly practising be seen; just as a pure, spotless place, so should Nibbāna be seen.
"But how does one rightly practising realize that Nibbāna? Whoever, great king, is rightly practising, he meditates on the occurrence of activities. Meditating on the occurrence, therein he sees birth, he sees ageing, he sees illness, he sees death; therein he sees nothing of happiness or comfort, from the beginning, from the middle, or from the end. Therein he sees nothing fit to be grasped. Just as, great king, a man sees no place fit to be grasped from the beginning, from the middle, or from the end in an iron ball heated by the day, blazing, heated, glowing; just so indeed, great king, whoever meditates on the occurrence of activities, meditating on the occurrence, therein he sees birth, he sees ageing, he sees illness, he sees death; therein he sees nothing of happiness or comfort, from the beginning, from the middle, or from the end. Therein he sees nothing fit to be grasped; for him not seeing anything fit to be grasped, discontent becomes established in the mind, burning enters the body; he, without shelter, without refuge, having become without refuge, becomes disenchanted with existences.
"Just as, great king, a man might enter a blazing mass of flames, a great mass of fire, and there, without shelter, without refuge, having become without refuge, he would become disenchanted with the fire, just so indeed, great king, for one not seeing anything fit to be grasped, discontent becomes established in the mind, burning comes upon the body, and he, without shelter, without refuge, having become without refuge, becomes disenchanted with existences.
"For him who sees danger in occurrence, such a thought arises: 'This occurrence is indeed heated, ablaze, with much suffering, with much anguish. If anyone could obtain non-occurrence, this is peaceful, this is sublime, that is to say, the stilling of all activities, the relinquishment of all clinging, the elimination of craving, dispassion, cessation, Nibbāna.' Thus indeed his mind springs forward to non-occurrence, becomes clear, becomes joyful, becomes satisfied: 'I have attained the escape.'
"Just as, great king, a man who has lost his way, having strayed into a foreign land, having seen the way out, springs forward there, becomes clear, becomes joyful, becomes satisfied: 'I have attained the way out,' just so indeed, great king, for one who sees danger in occurrence, the mind springs forward to non-occurrence, becomes clear, becomes joyful, becomes satisfied: 'I have attained the escape.'
"He strives for the path for the purpose of non-occurrence, seeks it, develops it, cultivates it. For him, mindfulness becomes established for that purpose, energy becomes established for that purpose, joy becomes established for that purpose. For him, attending again and again to that mind, having transcended occurrence, he enters non-occurrence. Having attained non-occurrence, great king, one practising rightly is said to 'realize Nibbāna.'" "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus I accept this as true."
The question on the realization of Nibbāna is the eleventh.
12.
The Question on the Location of Nibbāna
12. "Venerable Nāgasena, is there that place in the eastern direction or the southern direction or the western direction or the northern direction or above or below or across, where Nibbāna is placed?" "There is not, great king, that place in the eastern direction or the southern direction or the western direction or the northern direction or above or below or across, where Nibbāna is placed."
"If, Venerable Nāgasena, there is no place where Nibbāna is placed, then there is no Nibbāna? And for those by whom that Nibbāna has been realized, their realization too is wrong. I will state the reason there. Just as, Venerable Nāgasena, there is a field on earth as a source of grain, there is a flower as a source of fragrance, there is a bush as a source of flowers, there is a tree as a source of fruit, there is a mine as a source of jewels - whoever there desires whatever, he, having gone there, takes that very thing - just so indeed, Venerable Nāgasena, if there is Nibbāna, a place of origin for that Nibbāna should also be expected. But because, Venerable Nāgasena, there is no place of origin for Nibbāna, therefore I say there is no Nibbāna, and for those by whom Nibbāna has been realized, their realization too is wrong."
"There is not, great king, a place where Nibbāna is placed, yet there is this Nibbāna; one rightly practising by wise attention realizes Nibbāna. Just as, great king, there is what is called fire, there is no place where it is placed, but by rubbing two sticks together one attains fire. Just so indeed, great king, there is Nibbāna, there is no place where it is placed; one rightly practising by wise attention realizes Nibbāna.
"Or else, great king, there are what are called the seven treasures. As follows: the wheel treasure, the elephant treasure, the horse treasure, the jewel treasure, the woman treasure, the householder treasure, and the adviser treasure. And there is no place where those treasures are placed, but by the power of practice they approach a warrior of the warrior caste who is rightly practising. Just so indeed, great king, there is Nibbāna, there is no place where it is placed; one rightly practising by wise attention realizes Nibbāna."
"Venerable Nāgasena, let there not be a place where Nibbāna is placed, but is there that state where one standing, rightly practising, realizes Nibbāna?" "Yes, great king, there is that state where one standing, rightly practising, realizes Nibbāna."
"But what, venerable sir, is that state where one standing, rightly practising, realizes Nibbāna?" "Morality, great king, is the state; one established in morality, wisely attending, standing in the forest of the Sakas or in China or in Alexandria or in Nikumba or in Kāsi-Kosala or in Kashmir or in Gandhāra or on a mountain peak or in the Brahma world or wherever at all, rightly practising, realizes Nibbāna. Just as, great king, whoever is a man with eyes, standing in the forest of the Sakas or in China or in Alexandria or in Nikumba or in Kāsi-Kosala or in Kashmir or in Gandhāra or on a mountain peak or in the Brahma world or wherever at all, sees space; just so indeed, great king, one established in morality, wisely attending, in the forest of the Sakas, etc. standing wherever at all, rightly practising, realizes Nibbāna.
"Or else, great king, in the forest of the Sakas, etc. for one standing wherever at all, there is the eastern direction; just so indeed, great king, for one established in morality, wisely attending, in the forest of the Sakas, etc. for one standing wherever at all, rightly practising, there is the realization of Nibbāna." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, Nibbāna has been taught by you, the realization of Nibbāna has been taught, the virtues of morality have been equipped, right practice has been shown, the banner of the Teaching has been raised, the guideline of the Teaching has been established, the right exertion of those well-applied is not barren; thus I accept this as true, O most excellent of excellent teachers."
The question on the location of Nibbāna is the twelfth.
The Vessantara Chapter is the third.
In this chapter there are twelve questions.