2.
The Chapter on the Absence of Obsession
1.
The Question on Absence of Obsession
1. "Venerable Nāgasena, this too was spoken by the Blessed One: 'Monks, dwell delighting in the absence of obsession, taking pleasure in the absence of obsession.' What is that absence of obsession?" "The fruition of stream-entry, great king, is absence of obsession; the fruition of once-returning is absence of obsession; the fruition of non-returning is absence of obsession; the fruition of arahantship is absence of obsession."
"If, venerable Nāgasena, the fruition of stream-entry is absence of obsession, the fruition of once-returning, non-returning, and arahantship is absence of obsession, then why do these monks recite and interrogate discourse, mixed prose and verse, explanation, verse, inspired utterance, thus-it-is-said, birth story, wonderful phenomena, catechism, are occupied with new construction work and with giving and with veneration - are they not doing action rejected by the Conqueror?"
"Those monks, great king, who recite and interrogate discourse, mixed prose and verse, explanation, verse, inspired utterance, thus-it-is-said, birth story, wonderful phenomena, catechism, are occupied with new construction work and with giving and with veneration - all of them do so for the attainment of absence of obsession. Those, great king, who are pure by intrinsic nature, who have formerly cultivated mastery, they become without obsession in a single moment of consciousness. But those monks who have great defilement, they become without obsession by these practices.
"Just as, great king, one man, having planted seed in a field, according to his own strength and energy, without a fence and wall, might harvest the grain; another man, having planted seed in a field, having entered the forest, having cut sticks and branches, having made a fence and wall, might harvest the grain. Whatever search for a fence and wall there is for him there, that is for the sake of grain. Just so indeed, great king, those who are pure by intrinsic nature, who have formerly cultivated mastery, they become without obsession in a single moment of consciousness, like a man harvesting grain without a fence and wall. But those monks who have great defilement, they become without obsession by these practices, like a man harvesting grain having made a fence and wall.
"Or else, great king, suppose there were a cluster of fruit at the top of a very great mango tree, then whoever possessing supernormal power, having come there, might take its fruit; but whoever there without supernormal power, he, having cut sticks and creepers, having tied a ladder, having climbed that tree by it, might take the fruit. Whatever search for a ladder there is for him there, that is for the sake of fruit. Just so indeed, great king, those who are pure by intrinsic nature, who have formerly cultivated mastery, they become without obsession in a single moment of consciousness, like one possessing supernormal power taking tree fruit. But those monks who have great defilement, they fully realise the truths by this practice, like a man taking tree fruit by a ladder.
"Or else, great king, one man having a legal case, going alone to the master, accomplishes his purpose. One wealthy man, by the power of wealth, having increased his following, accomplishes his purpose by the following. Whatever search for a following there is for him there, that is for the sake of purpose. Just so indeed, great king, those who are pure by intrinsic nature, who have formerly cultivated mastery, they attain mastery in the six direct knowledges in a single moment of consciousness, like a man alone accomplishing success of purpose. But those monks who have great defilement, they accomplish the goal of asceticism by these practices, like a man accomplishing success of purpose by a following.
"Recitation too, great king, is of great service; interrogation too is of great service; new construction work too is of great service; giving too is of great service; veneration too is of great service in those various duties. Just as, great king, a man serving the king, having done favours with ministers, soldiers, troops, doorkeepers, bodyguards, and members of the assembly - when his duty arrives, all of them are helpful. Just so indeed, great king, recitation too is of great service; interrogation too is of great service; new construction work too is of great service; giving too is of great service; veneration too is of great service in those various duties. If, great king, all were pure by birth, there would be nothing to be done by instruction. But because, great king, there is something to be done by hearing, the Elder Sāriputta, great king, having accumulated wholesome roots from an immeasurable incalculable aeon onwards, having gone to the summit of wisdom, even he, without hearing, was not able to attain the elimination of mental corruptions. Therefore, great king, hearing is of great service, likewise recitation and interrogation too. Therefore recitation and interrogation too are reckoned as absence of obsession." "The question has been well elucidated, venerable Nāgasena; thus I accept this as true."
The question on absence of obsession is the first.
2.
The Question on the State of One Who Eliminated the Mental Corruptions
2. "Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'whoever is a layman who has attained arahantship, there are only two destinations for him, no other: on that very day he either goes forth or attains final nibbāna. That day cannot be passed beyond.' If, venerable Nāgasena, on that day he should not obtain a teacher or a preceptor or bowl and robes, would that Worthy One go forth by himself or would he pass beyond the day, or would some other Worthy One possessing supernormal power, having come, give him the going forth or would he attain final nibbāna?" "That Worthy One, great king, would not go forth by himself; going forth by himself, he commits theft; nor would he pass beyond the day; whether or not another Worthy One's coming might occur, on that very day he would attain final nibbāna." "If so, venerable Nāgasena, the peaceful state of arahantship is abandoned, by which there is the taking away of life for one who has attained it."
"Abnormal, great king, is the layman's outward sign; in the abnormal outward sign, due to the weakness of the outward sign, a layman who has attained arahantship on that very day either goes forth or attains final nibbāna. This, great king, is not the fault of arahantship; this is indeed the fault of the layman's outward sign, that is to say, the weakness of the outward sign.
"Just as, great king, food, which protects the life span and guards the life of all beings, for one with an abnormal stomach, with slow and weak digestion, through non-digestion takes away life. This, great king, is not the fault of the food; this is indeed the fault of the stomach, that is to say, the weakness of the digestive fire. Just so indeed, great king, in the abnormal outward sign, due to the weakness of the outward sign, a layman who has attained arahantship on that very day either goes forth or attains final nibbāna. This, great king, is not the fault of arahantship; this is indeed the fault of the layman's outward sign, that is to say, the weakness of the outward sign.
"Or else, great king, just as a small blade of grass, when a heavy stone is placed upon it, due to weakness, having broken, falls. Just so indeed, great king, a layman who has attained arahantship, being unable to maintain arahantship with that outward sign, on that very day either goes forth or attains final nibbāna.
"Or else, great king, just as a man who is powerless, weak, of low birth, of little merit, having obtained a very great kingdom, in a moment falls down, falls away, draws back, and is not able to maintain the sovereignty; just so indeed, great king, a layman who has attained arahantship is not able to maintain arahantship with that outward sign; for that reason, on that very day he either goes forth or attains final nibbāna." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus I accept this as true."
The question on the state of one who eliminated the mental corruptions is the second.
3.
The Question on the Forgetfulness of One Who Eliminated the Mental Corruptions
3. "Venerable Nāgasena, is there forgetfulness for a Worthy One?" "Worthy Ones, great king, are free from forgetfulness; there is no forgetfulness for Worthy Ones." "But, venerable sir, would a Worthy One commit an offence?" "Yes, great king." "In what case?" "In building a hut, great king, in matchmaking, at the improper time with the perception of proper time, when invited to admonish with the perception of not being invited to admonish, when it is not leftover with the perception of leftover."
"Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'those who commit an offence, they commit it for two reasons: either through disrespect or through not knowing.' But indeed, venerable sir, is there disrespect for a Worthy One, that a Worthy One commits an offence?" "No indeed, great king."
"If, Venerable Nāgasena, a Worthy One commits an offence, and there is no disrespect for a Worthy One, then there is forgetfulness for a Worthy One?" "There is not, great king, forgetfulness for a Worthy One, yet a Worthy One commits an offence."
"If so, venerable sir, convince me by a reason; what is the reason there?" "There are these two, great king, mental defilements: worldly fault and fault by regulation. What, great king, is worldly fault? The ten unwholesome courses of action - this is called worldly fault. What is fault by regulation? That which in the world is unsuitable and not becoming for ascetics, but blameless for householders. Therein the Blessed One lays down a training rule for disciples: 'not to be transgressed for life.' Eating at the improper time, great king, is blameless for the world, but that is a fault in the Conqueror's Dispensation. Damaging growing plants, great king, is blameless for the world, but that is a fault in the Conqueror's Dispensation. Joking in water, great king, is blameless for the world, but that is a fault in the Conqueror's Dispensation. Thus such and such things, great king, are faults in the Conqueror's Dispensation - this is called fault by regulation.
"One who has eliminated the mental corruptions is incapable of transgressing a worldly fault; that which is a mental defilement, a fault by regulation, that he might commit through not knowing. It is not within the domain, great king, of a certain Worthy One to know everything; for he does not have the power to know everything. Unknown, great king, to a Worthy One are the names and clans of women and men; the path too on the earth is unknown to him; only liberation, great king, would a certain Worthy One know; a Worthy One possessing the six higher knowledges would know his own domain; the omniscient one, great king, only the Truth-finder knows everything." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus I accept this as true."
The question on the forgetfulness of one who eliminated the mental corruptions is the third.
4.
The Question on Absence in the World
4. "Venerable Nāgasena, in the world Buddhas are seen, Individually Enlightened Ones are seen, disciples of the Truth-finder are seen, universal monarchs are seen, sub-kings are seen, gods and humans are seen, the wealthy are seen, the poor are seen, the fortunate are seen, the ill-fated are seen, the female organ become manifest in a man is seen, the male organ become manifest in a woman is seen, well-done and wrongly-done action is seen, beings who experience the results of good and evil actions are seen, there are in the world beings born in eggs, born in wombs, born in moisture, spontaneously born, there are beings footless, two-footed, four-footed, many-footed, there are in the world demons, goblins, kumbhaṇḍas, titans, dānavas, gandhabbas, ghosts, sprites, there are kinnaras, great serpents, nāgas, supaṇṇas, accomplished ones, sorcerers, there are elephants, horses, cattle, buffaloes, camels, donkeys, goats, wild goats, deer, pigs, lions, tigers, panthers, bears, wolves, hyenas, dogs, jackals, there are birds of many kinds, there is gold, silver, pearls, gems, conch shells, stones, coral, rubies, cat's eye gems, lapis lazuli, diamonds, crystal, black metal, copper, lead, bronze, there is linen, silk, cotton, hempen, hemp, woollen blanket, there is rice, paddy, barley, millet, kudrūsa, varaka, wheat, mung beans, black beans, sesame, horse gram, there is the odour of roots, the odour of heartwood, the odour of softwood, the odour of bark, the odour of leaves, the odour of flowers, the odour of fruits, the odour of all things, there are grass, creepers, shrubs, trees, medicinal plants, large trees, rivers, mountains, oceans, fish and turtles - everything exists in the world. What, venerable sir, does not exist in the world, tell me that."
"There are, great king, these three things that do not exist in the world. What three? Whether conscious or unconscious, there is nothing free from ageing and death in the world, there is no permanence of activities, there is no finding of a being in the ultimate reality - these, great king, are the three things that do not exist in the world." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, thus I accept this as true."
The question on absence in the world is the fourth.
5.
The Question on What is Not Born of Action and so on
5. "Venerable Nāgasena, in the world things produced by kamma are seen, things produced by cause are seen, things produced by season are seen; tell me what in the world is not born of kamma, not born of cause, not born of season." "There are, great king, two things in the world not born of kamma, not born of cause, not born of season. Which two? Space, great king, is not born of kamma, not born of cause, not born of season; Nibbāna, great king, is not born of kamma, not born of cause, not born of season. These, great king, are the two not born of kamma, not born of cause, not born of season."
"Do not, Venerable Nāgasena, treat the Conqueror's word with contempt, do not answer the question without knowing." "What indeed, great king, do I say, that you speak to me thus: 'Do not, Venerable Nāgasena, treat the Conqueror's word with contempt, do not answer the question without knowing'?" "Venerable Nāgasena, it is proper to say this much: 'Space is not born of kamma, not born of cause, not born of season.' But, Venerable Nāgasena, by many hundreds of reasons the path for the realisation of Nibbāna has been declared by the Blessed One for disciples, and yet you say thus: 'Nibbāna is not born of cause.'" "True, great king, by many hundreds of reasons the path for the realisation of Nibbāna has been declared by the Blessed One for disciples, but no cause for the arising of Nibbāna has been declared."
"Here, Venerable Nāgasena, we are entering from darkness into greater darkness, from forest into denser forest, from thicket into denser thicket, inasmuch as there is a cause for the realisation of Nibbāna, but there is no cause for the arising of that state. If, Venerable Nāgasena, there is a cause for the realisation of Nibbāna, then a cause for the arising of Nibbāna should also be expected.
"Just as, Venerable Nāgasena, a son has a father, by that reason a father of the father should also be expected. Just as a pupil has a teacher, by that reason a teacher of the teacher should also be expected. Just as a sprout has a seed, by that reason a seed of the seed should also be expected. Just so indeed, Venerable Nāgasena, if there is a cause for the realisation of Nibbāna, by that reason a cause for the arising of Nibbāna should also be expected.
"Just as when there is a top of a tree or a creeper, by that reason there is also a middle and also a root. Just so indeed, Venerable Nāgasena, if there is a cause for the realisation of Nibbāna, by that reason a cause for the arising of Nibbāna should also be expected."
"Nibbāna, great king, is not to be produced, therefore no cause for the arising of Nibbāna has been declared." "Come now, Venerable Nāgasena, having shown a reason, convince me by a reason, so that I may know: there is a cause for the realisation of Nibbāna, there is no cause for the arising of Nibbāna."
"If so, great king, apply your ear attentively, listen well, I will tell the reason there. Could, great king, a man by his natural power go from here to the Himalaya, the king of mountains?" "Yes, venerable sir." "But could that man, great king, by his natural power bring the Himalaya, the king of mountains, here?" "No indeed, venerable sir." "Just so indeed, great king, it is possible to declare the path for the realisation of Nibbāna, it is not possible to show a cause for the arising of Nibbāna.
"Could, great king, a man by his natural power, having crossed the great ocean by boat, go to the farther shore?" "Yes, venerable sir." "But could that man, great king, by his natural power bring the farther shore of the great ocean here?" "No indeed, venerable sir." "Just so indeed, great king, it is possible to declare the path for the realisation of Nibbāna, it is not possible to show a cause for the arising of Nibbāna. Why? Because of the unconditioned nature of that state."
"Is Nibbāna unconditioned, Venerable Nāgasena?" "Yes, great king, Nibbāna is unconditioned, not made by anyone. Nibbāna, great king, is not to be said to be arisen or unarisen or to be produced or past or future or present or cognizable by eye or cognizable by ear or cognizable by nose or cognizable by tongue or cognizable by body." "If, Venerable Nāgasena, Nibbāna is not arisen, not unarisen, not to be produced, not past, not future, not present, not cognizable by eye, not cognizable by ear, not cognizable by nose, not cognizable by tongue, not cognizable by body, then, Venerable Nāgasena, you point to Nibbāna as a non-existent phenomenon: 'There is no Nibbāna.' "There is, great king, Nibbāna; Nibbāna is cognizable by mind. A noble disciple rightly practising, with a pure mind, sublime, straight, unobstructed, spiritual, sees Nibbāna."
"But what kind is that Nibbāna, venerable sir? Convince me by reasons that can be illuminated by similes, just as an existing phenomenon can be illuminated by similes." "Is there, great king, what is called wind?" "Yes, venerable sir." "Come now, great king, show the wind by colour or by shape, whether subtle or gross or long or short." "It is not possible, Venerable Nāgasena, to show the wind; the wind does not lend itself to being held in the hand or to being crushed; but yet there is wind." "If, great king, it is not possible to show the wind, then there is no wind?" "I know, Venerable Nāgasena, that wind exists; it has entered my heart, but I am not able to show the wind." "Just so indeed, great king, there is Nibbāna, but it is not possible to show Nibbāna by colour or by shape." "Excellent, Venerable Nāgasena, the simile has been well shown, the reason well explained; thus I accept this as true: 'There is Nibbāna.'"
The question on what is not born of action and so on is the fifth.
6.
The Question on What is Born of Action and so on
6. "Venerable Nāgasena, which of these are born of kamma, which are born of cause, which are born of season, which are not born of kamma, not born of cause, not born of season?" "Whatever beings, great king, are conscious, all of them are born of kamma; fire and all species of seed are born of cause; earth and mountains and water and wind, all of them are born of season; space and Nibbāna, these two are not born of kamma, not born of cause, not born of season. But Nibbāna, great king, is not to be said to be born of kamma or born of cause or born of season or arisen or unarisen or to be produced or past or future or present or cognizable by eye or cognizable by ear or cognizable by nose or cognizable by tongue or cognizable by body; but moreover, great king, Nibbāna is cognizable by mind, which the noble disciple rightly practising sees with purified knowledge." "Delightful, Venerable Nāgasena, the question has been well determined, free from doubt, gone to the ultimate, doubt has been cut off; you have approached the most excellent of the excellent leaders of groups."
The question on what is born of action and so on is the sixth.
7.
The Question on the Demon
7. "Venerable Nāgasena, are there in the world beings called demons?" "Yes, great king, there are in the world beings called demons." "But do those demons, venerable sir, pass away from that realm?" "Yes, great king, those demons pass away from that realm." "But why, Venerable Nāgasena, is the body of those dead demons not seen, and the smell of a corpse does not blow?" "It is seen, great king, the body of dead demons, and the smell of a corpse blows from them. The body of dead demons, great king, is seen in the form of an insect, or is seen in the form of a worm, or is seen in the form of an ant, or is seen in the form of a grasshopper, or is seen in the form of a snake, or is seen in the form of a scorpion, or is seen in the form of a centipede, or is seen in the form of a bird, or is seen in the form of a beast." "Who indeed, Venerable Nāgasena, another being asked this question could answer it except by one wise like you?"
The question on the demon is the seventh.
8.
The Question on the Complete Training Rules
8. "Venerable Nāgasena, those who were the ancient teachers of physicians, as follows: Nārada, Dhammantarī, Aṅgīrasa, Kapila, Kaṇḍarāggi, Sāma, Atula, Pubbakaccāyana - all these teachers, having known once only the arising of diseases, the source, the intrinsic nature, the origination, the medical treatment, the function, and the success and failure, all that without remainder, thinking 'this many diseases will arise in this body,' all at once making a comprehensive grasp, composed a treatise. All these were not omniscient. Why then did the Truth-finder, being omniscient, having known future action by the Buddha's knowledge, having determined 'in such and such a case such and such a training rule will have to be laid down,' not lay down the training rule completely, but laid down the training rule for disciples on each occasion as it arose, when there was disgrace, when the fault was obvious, when it was widespread, when it had gone far and wide, when people were grumbling, at each and every time?"
"This was known, great king, to the Truth-finder: 'At this time, for these human beings, more than one hundred and fifty training rules will have to be laid down.' But this occurred to the Truth-finder: 'If I were to lay down more than one hundred and fifty training rules all at once, the great multitude would fall into fear, thinking "Much is to be guarded here; difficult indeed, friend, is it to go forth in the Dispensation of the ascetic Gotama." Even those wishing to go forth would not go forth, and they would not believe my word; those human beings not believing would become ones going to realms of misery.' Thus, 'On each occasion as it arises, having informed them through the proclamation of the Teaching, when the fault is obvious, I shall lay down the training rule.'" "Wonderful, Venerable Nāgasena, of the Buddhas! Marvellous, Venerable Nāgasena, of the Buddhas! How great is the Truth-finder's omniscient knowledge! Thus it is, Venerable Nāgasena, this meaning was well shown by the Truth-finder. Having heard 'much is to be trained in here,' fear would arise in beings; not even one would go forth in the Conqueror's Dispensation. Thus I accept this as true."
The question on the complete training rules is the eighth.
9.
The Question on the Sun's Heat
9. "Venerable Nāgasena, does this sun shine intensely at all times, or does it shine weakly at some times?" "At all times, great king, the sun shines intensely; it does not shine weakly at any time." "If, venerable Nāgasena, the sun shines intensely at all times, why then does the sun sometimes shine intensely and sometimes shine weakly?" "There are, great king, these four diseases of the sun, oppressed by one or other of which diseases the sun shines weakly. Which four? Cloud, great king, is a disease of the sun; oppressed by that disease the sun shines weakly. Frost, great king, is a disease of the sun; oppressed by that disease the sun shines weakly. Rain-cloud, great king, is a disease of the sun; oppressed by that disease the sun shines weakly. Rāhu, great king, is a disease of the sun; oppressed by that disease the sun shines weakly. These, great king, are the four diseases of the sun, oppressed by one or other of which diseases the sun shines weakly." "Wonderful, venerable Nāgasena, marvellous, venerable Nāgasena, that even for the sun, so endowed with radiance, disease will arise; how much more then for other beings. There is not, venerable sir, this classification by another except by one wise like you."
The question on the sun's heat is the ninth.
10.
The Question on the Kathina Heat
10. "Venerable Nāgasena, why does the sun shine intensely in winter, but not so in summer?" "In summer, great king, the muddy dirt is undisturbed, dust particles stirred by the wind rise up into the sky, clouds in the sky are very thick, and a great wind blows excessively; all these various elements combined together obstruct the sun's rays; therefore in summer the sun shines weakly.
"In winter, however, great king, the earth below is cooled, a great rain cloud is present above, the muddy dirt is calmed, dust moves very gently in the sky, the sky is free from clouds, and the wind blows very gently; with the cessation of these, the sun's rays become pure, and the heat of the sun freed from obstruction shines as if exceedingly. This, great king, is the reason here, by which reason the sun shines intensely in winter, but not so in summer." "Freed from all calamities, venerable sir, the sun shines intensely; accompanied by clouds and so on, it does not shine intensely."
The question on the kathina heat is the tenth.
The Chapter on Absence of Obsession is the second.
In this chapter there are ten questions.