4.
The Chapter on Nibbāna
1.
The Question on Distinguishing Contact and So On
1. The king said: "Venerable Nāgasena, is it possible, having separated these mental states that have come to a unified condition again and again, to declare their difference: 'This is contact, this is feeling, this is perception, this is volition, this is consciousness, this is applied thought, this is sustained thought'?" "It is not possible, great king, having separated these mental states that have come to a unified condition again and again, to declare their difference: 'This is contact, this is feeling, this is perception, this is volition, this is consciousness, this is applied thought, this is sustained thought.'"
"Give a simile." "Just as, great king, a king's cook might make a sauce or a curry, and therein he might put curds, and he might put salt, and he might put ginger, and he might put cumin, and he might put pepper, and he might put other ingredients, and the king might say to him thus: 'Bring me the flavour of the curds, bring me the flavour of the salt, bring me the flavour of the ginger, bring me the flavour of the cumin, bring me the flavour of the pepper, bring me the flavour of all the ingredients that were put in.' Is it possible, great king, having separated those flavours that have come to a unified condition again and again, to bring the flavour - sourness or saltiness or bitterness or pungency or astringency or sweetness?" "No indeed, venerable sir, it is not possible, having separated those flavours that have come to a unified condition again and again, to bring the flavour - sourness or saltiness or bitterness or pungency or astringency or sweetness; but they are present each with its own characteristic." "Just so indeed, great king, it is not possible, having separated these mental states that have come to a unified condition again and again, to declare their difference: 'This is contact, this is feeling, this is perception, this is volition, this is consciousness, this is applied thought, this is sustained thought'; but they are present each with its own characteristic."
"You are clever, Venerable Nāgasena."
The question on distinguishing contact and so on is the first.
2.
The Question on Nāgasena
2. The elder said: "Salt, great king, is cognizable by eye." "Yes, venerable sir, cognizable by eye." "Well indeed, great king, you know." "But is it, venerable sir, cognizable by tongue?" "Yes, great king, cognizable by tongue." "But, venerable sir, is all salt cognized by the tongue?" "Yes, great king, all salt is cognized by the tongue."
"If, venerable sir, all salt is cognized by the tongue, then why do oxen bring it by carts? Should not just the salt be brought?" "It is not possible, great king, to bring just the salt; these phenomena have come to a unified condition, having gone to diversity of range - salt and heaviness. But is it possible, great king, to weigh salt on a scale?" "Yes, venerable sir, it is possible." "It is not possible, great king, to weigh salt on a scale; heaviness is weighed on a scale."
"You are clever, Venerable Nāgasena."
The question on Nāgasena is the second.
3.
The Question on Action-Produced Five Sense Bases
3. The king said: "Venerable Nāgasena, these five sense bases, are they produced by different actions, or by one action?" "By different actions, great king, they are produced, not by one action."
"Give a simile." "What do you think, great king, if in one field different seeds were sown, would different fruits of those different seeds be produced?" "Yes, venerable sir, they would be produced." "Just so indeed, great king, whatever five sense bases there are, all those are produced by different actions, not by one action."
"You are clever, Venerable Nāgasena."
The question on action-produced five sense bases is the third.
4.
The Question on the Difference of Action
4. The king said: "Venerable Nāgasena, for what reason are human beings not all equal - some are short-lived, some are long-lived, some have many illnesses, some have few illnesses, some are ugly, some are beautiful, some are of little influence, some are influential, some are of little wealth, some are of great wealth, some are of low birth, some are of high birth, some are lacking wisdom, some are wise?"
The elder said: "But why, great king, are trees not all equal - some are sour, some are salty, some are bitter, some are pungent, some are astringent, some are sweet?" "I think, venerable sir, because of the difference in seeds." "Just so indeed, great king, because of the difference in actions, human beings are not all equal - some are short-lived, some are long-lived, some have many illnesses, some have few illnesses, some are ugly, some are beautiful, some are of little influence, some are influential, some are of little wealth, some are of great wealth, some are of low birth, some are of high birth, some are lacking wisdom, some are wise. This too was spoken, great king, by the Blessed One - 'Beings are owners of their actions, young man, heirs to their actions, they originate from their actions, are bound to their actions, have their actions as their refuge; it is action that divides beings, that is to say, into the inferior and the superior.'"
"You are clever, Venerable Nāgasena."
The question on the difference of action is the fourth.
5.
The Question on Making Effort
5. The king said: "Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'so that this suffering might cease, and other suffering might not arise.' For this purpose, great king, is our going forth." "What is the use of striving beforehand? Should one not strive when the time has arrived?" The elder said: "When the time has arrived, great king, effort does not accomplish its function; only effort made beforehand accomplishes its function."
"Give a simile." "What do you think, great king, when you were thirsty, would you then have a well dug, have a lake dug, thinking 'I will drink water'? "No indeed, venerable sir." "Just so, great king, when the time has arrived, effort does not accomplish its function; only effort made beforehand accomplishes its function."
"Give a further simile." "What do you think, great king, when you were hungry, would you then have a field ploughed, have rice planted, have grain brought in, thinking 'I will eat a meal'? "No indeed, venerable sir." "Just so, great king, when the time has arrived, effort does not accomplish its function; only effort made beforehand accomplishes its function."
"Give a further simile." "What do you think, great king, when a battle was at hand for you, would you then have a moat dug, have a wall built, have a gateway built, have a watchtower built, have grain brought in; would you then train in elephants, train in horses, train in chariots, train in bows, train in swords?" "No indeed, venerable sir." "Just so, great king, when the time has arrived, effort does not accomplish its function; only effort made beforehand accomplishes its function. This too was spoken, great king, by the Blessed One -
Not with the thinking of a carter should the wise one, after deliberation, exert.
Having mounted an uneven path, grieves like one with a broken axle.
The fool, having reached the mouth of death, grieves like one with a broken axle.'"
"You are clever, Venerable Nāgasena."
The question on making effort is the fifth.
6.
The Question on the Heat of Hell Fire for Hell Beings
6. The king said: "Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'the fire of hell is more intensely hot than ordinary fire; even a small stone thrown into ordinary fire, though being cooked for a day, does not go to dissolution; but even a stone the size of a pinnacle building thrown into the fire of hell goes to dissolution in a moment' - I do not believe this statement; and yet you say 'those beings who have arisen there, they, though being cooked in hell for many thousands of years, do not go to dissolution' - I do not believe that statement either."
The elder said: "What do you think, great king, those female sea-monsters, female crocodiles, female turtles, female peahens, and female pigeons that exist - do they eat hard stones and gravel?" "Yes, venerable sir, they eat them." "But do those things, having gone into the interior of their bellies, go to dissolution?" "Yes, venerable sir, they go to dissolution." "But does the embryo in their womb also go to dissolution?" "No indeed, venerable sir." "For what reason?" "I think, venerable sir, because of being caused by action, it does not go to dissolution." "Just so indeed, great king, because of being caused by action, beings doomed to hell, though being cooked in hell for many thousands of years, do not go to dissolution. This too was spoken, great king, by the Blessed One - 'He does not die until that evil deed is exhausted.'"
"Give a further simile." "What do you think, great king, those female lions, female tigers, female leopards, and female dogs that exist - do they eat hard bones and meat?" "Yes, venerable sir, they eat them." "But do those things, having gone into the interior of their bellies, go to dissolution?" "Yes, venerable sir, they go to dissolution." "But does the embryo in their womb also go to dissolution?" "No indeed, venerable sir." "For what reason?" "I think, venerable sir, because of being caused by action, it does not go to dissolution." "Just so indeed, great king, because of being caused by action, beings doomed to hell, though being cooked in hell for many thousands of years, do not go to dissolution."
"Give a further simile." "What do you think, great king, those delicate Greek women, delicate warrior-caste women, delicate brahmin women, and delicate householder women that exist - do they eat hard sweetmeats and meat?" "Yes, venerable sir, they eat them." "But do those things, having gone into the interior of their bellies, go to dissolution?" "Yes, venerable sir, they go to dissolution." "But does the embryo in their womb also go to dissolution?" "No indeed, venerable sir." "For what reason?" "I think, venerable sir, because of being caused by action, it does not go to dissolution." "Just so indeed, great king, because of being caused by action, beings doomed to hell, though being cooked in hell for many thousands of years, do not go to dissolution. This too was spoken, great king, by the Blessed One - 'He does not die until that evil deed is exhausted.'"
"You are clever, Venerable Nāgasena."
The question on the heat of hell fire for hell beings is the sixth.
7.
The Question on the Earth-Supporter
7. The king said: "Venerable Nāgasena, you say 'this great earth is established upon water, the water is established upon wind, the wind is established upon space' - I do not believe this statement either." The elder, having taken water with a water-strainer, convinced King Milinda: "Just as, great king, this water is supported by wind, so too that water is supported by wind."
"You are clever, Venerable Nāgasena."
The question on the earth-supporter is the seventh.
8.
The Question on Cessation and Nibbāna
8. The king said: "Venerable Nāgasena, is cessation Nibbāna?" "Yes, great king, cessation is Nibbāna." "How, venerable Nāgasena, is cessation Nibbāna?" "All ignorant worldlings, great king, delight in the internal and external sense bases, assert them, and remain grasping them; they are carried away by that stream; they are not released from birth, from ageing, from death, from sorrow, from lamentation, from sufferings, from displeasures, from anguishes; they are not released from suffering, I say. But a learned noble disciple, great king, does not delight in the internal and external sense bases, does not assert them, and does not remain grasping them; for him not delighting in that, not asserting it, not remaining grasping it, craving ceases; from the cessation of craving comes the cessation of clinging; from the cessation of clinging comes the cessation of existence; from the cessation of existence comes the cessation of birth; from the cessation of birth, ageing and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, displeasure, and anguish cease; thus is the cessation of this whole mass of suffering; thus, great king, cessation is Nibbāna."
"You are clever, Venerable Nāgasena."
The question on cessation and Nibbāna is the eighth.
9.
The Question on Attaining Nibbāna
9. The king said: "Venerable Nāgasena, does everyone obtain Nibbāna?" "Indeed not, great king, not everyone obtains Nibbāna; but, great king, whoever is rightly practising directly knows the phenomena to be directly known, fully understands the phenomena to be fully understood, abandons the phenomena to be abandoned, develops the phenomena to be developed, realizes the phenomena to be realized - he obtains Nibbāna."
"You are clever, Venerable Nāgasena."
The question on attaining Nibbāna is the ninth.
10.
The Question on Knowing the Happiness of Nibbāna
10. The king said: "Venerable Nāgasena, one who does not obtain Nibbāna, does he know 'Nibbāna is happiness'?" "Yes, great king, one who does not obtain Nibbāna knows 'Nibbāna is happiness'." "How, venerable Nāgasena, does one not obtaining know 'Nibbāna is happiness'?" "What do you think, great king, those whose hands and feet have not been cut off, would they know, great king, 'the cutting off of hands and feet is painful'?" "Yes, venerable sir, they would know." "How would they know?" "Venerable sir, having heard the sound of lamentation of others whose hands and feet have been cut off, they know 'the cutting off of hands and feet is painful'." "Just so indeed, great king, having heard the sound of those who have seen Nibbāna, one knows 'Nibbāna is happiness'."
"You are clever, Venerable Nāgasena."
The question on knowing the happiness of Nibbāna is the tenth.
The Nibbāna Chapter is the fourth.
In this chapter there are ten questions.